Financial topics

Investments, gold, currencies, surviving after a financial meltdown
JLak
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:15 pm

Re: Europe's 'nuclear option'

Post by JLak »

John wrote: If the ECB employs the "nuclear option" and bails out all the PIIGS
countries, what would happen to the euro currency?
Yes, if the ECB violates its charter by bailing out the PIIGS, it will set a precedent for rewarding unsustainable deficits and eventually destroy it in a confidence crisis. The USD has the implicit backing of oil and cheap manufacturing and reserve status in the banking system. Therefore, I think you'd see either wholesale adoption or currency pegs to the USD.

However, what if they don't? If the PIIGS fail and the ECB holds to its charter, there will be a massive deflation from the bond defaults and it will set a precedent of gold-like strength for the Euro. This will draw a stark contrast to the recently-capricious fed and parallels to the treasury bond market. Remember also that foreign bank reserves are not actually USD reserves, but actually T-bonds for the most part. Once the world recognizes that the T-bonds will eventually fail, those reserves drop in value. The combination of a Euro gain and a treasury drop might actually make the Euro the dominant reserve currency without any trading of reserves. More important, however, is the USD/oil peg, which China depends on to maintain their own dollar peg. I believe this is mostly a function of our military support in the region, but OPEC would be pushing hard for Euro pricing to boost revenue, and our ability to provide regional security is somewhat questionable in the wake of asymmetric warfare. Finally, China will also fail soon (http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot. ... ng-to.html), so pretty much the whole system of supports is coming down with some certainty.

If I was a better analyst, I'd be able to calculate the expected values in these scenarios, but I'm not. Sorry.

JLak
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:15 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by JLak »

thomasglee wrote:What about some of the conspiracy theorists out there that believe all these currency failings are being created and manipulated in an effort to force the emergence of a new "super currency" that would force the world into a globally centralized monetary control system? Does any of that talk have any legs or would that be, as was mentioned in another post, just pushing debt around and not actually dealing with it?
I think you have to ask who would support that conspiracy. I do think that George Soros is in the midst of planning his biggest scheme ever. He wants to be remembered as the biggest gamer in history, and he has the likes of John Law and Mayer Amschel Rothschild to compete with. 'Reflexivity' is all about manipulating price through exploiting perceptions that are the exact opposite of the truth, and then the wild swing back once it it realized. Perhaps a better expert on the principle can provide some insight and possible targets of such scheming.

gerald
Posts: 1681
Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 10:34 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by gerald »

thomasglee wrote:What about some of the conspiracy theorists out there that believe all these currency failings are being created and manipulated in an effort to force the emergence of a new "super currency" that would force the world into a globally centralized monetary control system? Does any of that talk have any legs or would that be, as was mentioned in another post, just pushing debt around and not actually dealing with it?
con·spira·cy (kən spir′ə sē)

noun pl. conspiracies -·cies

a planning and acting together secretly, esp. for an unlawful or harmful purpose, such as murder or treason
the plan agreed on; plot
the group taking part in such a plan
a combining or working together the conspiracy of events
Etymology: ME conspiracie, prob. via ML conspirancia < L conspirare: see conspire

Webster's New World College Dictionary Copyright © 2010 by Wiley Publishing, Inc., Cleveland, Ohio.
Used by arrangement with John Wiley & Sons, Inc.

Regarding conspiracies, that goes on all the time, it depends on definitions. What is unlawful or harmful -- according to whom?
A secret plot? Like a surprise birthday party? words and definitions ---- and of course you may not know a conspiracy exists, until after the fact.
If you look around and things look like a conspiracy, it might be.

thomasglee
Posts: 686
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:07 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Financial topics

Post by thomasglee »

gerald wrote: con·spira·cy (kən spir′ə sē)

noun pl. conspiracies -·cies

a planning and acting together secretly, esp. for an unlawful or harmful purpose, such as murder or treason
the plan agreed on; plot
the group taking part in such a plan
a combining or working together the conspiracy of events
Etymology: ME conspiracie, prob. via ML conspirancia < L conspirare: see conspire

Webster's New World College Dictionary Copyright © 2010 by Wiley Publishing, Inc., Cleveland, Ohio.
Used by arrangement with John Wiley & Sons, Inc.

Regarding conspiracies, that goes on all the time, it depends on definitions. What is unlawful or harmful -- according to whom?
A secret plot? Like a surprise birthday party? words and definitions ---- and of course you may not know a conspiracy exists, until after the fact.
If you look around and things look like a conspiracy, it might be.
You've just absolutely offered nothing to the conversation.

Thank you.
Psalm 34:4 - “I sought the Lord, and he answered me and delivered me from all my fears.”

The Grey Badger
Posts: 176
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by The Grey Badger »

Never put down to conspiracy what can be attributed to stupidity,incompetence, delusions, or just plain greed, envy, hatred, malice ....

Notice the only vice not in there is Sloth. That's MY generation's vice.

aedens
Posts: 4753
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:13 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by aedens »

http://www.bea.gov/national/nipaweb/GovView.asp

As we knew:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/economy/ ... tation.pdf
The multiplier effects of a global production bounce should lead the world back to growth by late ‘09. However, when the intoxicating excitement of
inventory replenishment and stimulus fades, the West will reawaken to the reality of a consumer leverage binge now infecting the public sector as well. In addition, the recovery forces at work (cost-cutting and zero interest rates) subject households to an abstemious 50-year low in private sector wages + dividends + interest income. I’m not sure markets understand the consequences of that yet.

The recession has led to an historic collapse in tax receipts, creating problems for an administration yet
unwilling to consider spending cuts as part of a solution. A similar dynamic exists in the U.K., where tax collections
fell 5.7% and spending rose 2.8%, leading to the largest seasonal Public Sector Net Cash Requirement on record. UK
debt/GDP has reached new heights, even before factoring in potential liability from increased bank deposit guarantees.

Meanwhile Today: Disposable personal income increased $41.7 billion (1.5 percent) in the first quarter, compared
with an increase of $94.4 billion (3.5 percent) in the fourth. Real disposable personal income was
unchanged in the first quarter, compared with an increase of 1.0 percent.

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/nationa ... elease.htm

Three years ago, Standard & Poor's Ratings Services reported that, in its view, the dynamics of ratings in the European synthetic collateralized debt obligation (CDO) sector could be highly dependent on idiosyncratic events. Specifically, we noted that headline rating performance for the sector as a whole could be highly sensitive to downgrades or defaults among a few corporate obligors if these are referenced in a large number of CDO portfolios (see "Related Articles"). Recent bankruptcies and government-backed restructurings of seven entities in the financial services sector have triggered credit events in synthetic CDOs, providing a pertinent case study for this effect. While the number of corporate entities affected corresponds to around 0.4% of the number of investment-grade financial services issuers we rate, the effect on synthetic CDO ratings has been widespread because these entities were referenced in a large number of transactions (see table 1). Overall, about 75% of European synthetic CDOs–roughly 1,200 transactions–referenced at least one of these seven entities.

Given the Beltway's bent of mind to eat there own at the budget table and the reality of the few who gamed the Fed the observation will
continue to be weather the eye of the financial storm given the corporate cluster group think to maximize profits to survive the true master call given the social design observed to date.

http://aei.pitt.edu/6935/01/gom%C3%A0_ricard.pdf

http://nypress.com/article-21163-fraudonomics.html
“Whoever is responsible for bursting this latest bubble by exposing all the fraud—and tanking all the markets—will not only be out of power for at least a generation, but they’ll all have to get radical reconstructive surgery on their faces and seek political asylum somewhere remote. No one wants to be that guy, and that’s why it’s not going to happen.”

That may be true, but all bubbles to eventually burst, all Ponzi schemes do collapse. The only question is when. For those of us not on the verge of retiring, the sooner we have this day of reckoning and get it over with, the better.

http://mises.org/markets.asp

In closing the question is measuring confidence from arrogance and what I see today is this malady on its course.
Last edited by aedens on Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

OLD1953
Posts: 946
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:16 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by OLD1953 »

Can Germany stand to bail out all the PIIGS? And would Greece and Portugal change their behavior if they did? I seriously doubt it is politically possible to bail them all out, long before the last one stands at the trough, Germany will have a new government that won't bail them out. Even if they did, the probability of changing behavior is vanishingly small.

One in five homes in Ireland is empty. Ireland was hit very hard by the housing bubble. Can they survive without a bailout?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8653949.stm

Bees are being stolen in increasing numbers across Europe and the US, and now bee rustling has spread to Japan.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8655685.stm

You can't grow European crops without honeybees, and the die off is making them more and more valuable. This has serious economic implications for agriculture. Mine are doing fine, but they are right behind my house. My wife gets stung about once a year, the rest of the time she enjoys watching them zip in and out of the hives.

And US kids are too fat for the military. Generals are calling it a crisis, and want tighter restrictions on school food and nutrition.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8655651.stm

WWIII is going to have a huge number of "unfit to serve" unless they do take action. And that will cause some interesting conflicts politically, as the "let everything run itself" mindset collides with the "anything for the military" mindset.

A bit scattershot today, but that's hot it is sometimes.

thomasglee
Posts: 686
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:07 pm
Location: Texas

I’ll Tell You When Chinese Bubble Is About to Burst: Andy Xi

Post by thomasglee »

I’ll Tell You When Chinese Bubble Is About to Burst: Andy Xie

An interesting article on China's current property bubble. All I can say is that I hope it moves over to Korea so I can bail on the condo my wife and I own there. It's the only place where we have property that isn't upside down at the moment.

April 26 (Bloomberg) -- “My maid just asked for leave,” a friend in Beijing told me recently. “She’s rushing home to buy property. I suggested she borrow 70 percent, so she could cap the loss.”

It wasn’t the first time I had heard such a story in China. Some friends in Shanghai have told me similar ones. It seems all the housemaids are rushing into the market at the same time.

There are benefits to housekeeping for fund managers. China’s housemaids may be Asia’s answer to the shoeshine boy whose stock tips prompted Joseph Kennedy to sell his shares before the Wall Street Crash of 1929.

Another friend recently vacationed in the southern island- resort city of Sanya in Hainan province and felt compelled to visit a development sales office. Everyone she knew had bought there already. It’s either buy or be unsocial.

“You should buy two,” the sharp sales girl suggested. “In three years, the price will have doubled. You could sell one and get one free.”
How could anyone resist an offer like that?

The evidence in official-corruption cases no longer involves cash stashed in refrigerators or starlet mistresses in Versace clothing. The evidence is now apartments. One mid-level official in Shanghai was caught with 24 of them.

China is in the throes of a vast property mania. First, let me make it perfectly clear that calling China’s real-estate market a “bubble” isn’t denying China’s development success. As optimism is an essential ingredient in a bubble, economic success is a necessary condition. Nor am I saying that prices will drop tomorrow. A bubble evolves and bursts in its own time. When it is about to burst, I’ll let you know.

Free Lunch

Expectations of a Chinese currency revaluation are, perhaps, the most important force inflating the bubble. First, it plays to the latent human desire for a free lunch. You just need to exchange your money for Chinese yuan. According to all the experts on Wall Street, you can only gain. The money has been gushing into China.

Second, the revaluation story has kept Chinese money inside the country. The dollar has always been the safe-haven asset for Chinese. This is why Chinese banks had a large dollar deposit base. Of course, anybody who was somebody had dollars offshore. Now all that money is back. More importantly, any income, legal or otherwise, now stays in China.

Flats Beat Cash

Why would corrupt officials keep apartments rather than cash? Well, according to Wall Street, the yuan is going to appreciate. So holding dollars is out of the question. And why hold Chinese cash when property prices are always going up? The corruption money can be turbocharged in the real-estate market. Only when they are caught do they understand the downside of holding fixed assets.

The massive liquidity waves have prompted Chinese banks to lend as much as possible. One Wall Street tradition adopted quickly in China was bonus recipients signing company checks to themselves. All you need is to report eye-popping quarterly earnings. It is an easier game than on Wall Street: The Chinese government keeps the lending spread wide by fixing both the deposit and lending rates. You just have to lend. The earnings will follow. Might the loans turn bad in three years? Well, I’m not going to give back my bonuses, right?

For a bubble to last you need a force to hold it together when it stumbles. Wall Street kept pumping out new natural or synthetic products to turn debt into demand for assets. Local governments play this role in China.

Future Profits Now

When it comes to interested parties, Chinese governments are knee-deep in the bubble. They get all the money from land sales. Land values have risen to half of the development cost. In hot spots, land costs more than the development -- the governments want to collect the future price gain immediately.

When properties are sold, transaction and profit taxes kick in. Developers pay more levies to the governments than they earn. When developers finally book their earnings, they must put it to work, as good Wall Street analysts would recommend, so they buy land. As land prices are much higher, their measly earnings aren’t enough, so they have to borrow. The governments get all their earnings and debt repayments. Can you blame them for boosting the market whenever it slips?

Land obsession is another force at work. China was a rural economy not so long ago. The most important asset was always land. “Be a government official and become rich” is a millennium-old Chinese saying. It didn’t explain where the money went. It always went into agricultural land. In cities, you only see buildings, not paddy fields. But the buildings sit on land.

Now housemaids are in the market. Who else? Never underestimate 1.3 billion people. In China, they say you should take the shoeshine boy’s advice. Many would listen to him.

Welcome to China, the land of getting rich quick.

(Andy Xie is an independent economist based in Shanghai and was formerly Morgan Stanley’s chief economist for the Asia- Pacific region. The opinions expressed are his own.)
Psalm 34:4 - “I sought the Lord, and he answered me and delivered me from all my fears.”

OLD1953
Posts: 946
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:16 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by OLD1953 »

Part of the Greek crisis is explained, they haven't been bothering to collect taxes owed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/02/world ... asion.html

I do suppose, any government that doesn't bother to collect taxes is going to have a hard time making ends meet. Would that come under the heading of corrupt or would it come under lazy and incompetent? Or both?

And Spain continues to slide slowly downhill. Unemployment has now reached 20%.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europ ... mployment/

If Greece comes to see its choices as between default and 20% unemployment, they may prefer the default, while putting it off as long as possible. Thus, they'll very likely take any bailout money they can get, and lie about what they've done to fix their issues and then ask for more money to pay these notes when they come due. That's exactly what Germany did after WWI, they decided they weren't going to pay reparations, so what was paid was paid by the US, in reality. They had no intention of not defaulting when the money spigot ran dry, and when it did, they did default.

The expected continues to happen as infrastructure neglected by boomers and badly constructed or repaired by GenX continues to fail.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... wD9FEM07O0

Two million people in the Boston area are boiling water now. Doubtless, nobody will be found at fault.

And I've got absolutely no idea what Buffett is thinking of, by defending Goldman Sachs actions. If he doesn't think it's unethical to revalue class B bonds to class A, then either doesn't understand bonds, or he doesn't have any ethics. In either case, he'll either shut up quickly or he'll be another "bankster" to the public.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... india_main

The economy of the world can't live with failing infrastructure, corruption and cheating everywhere, plus fraud being praised as laudable business practice. We'll crash again, and this time much harder. Stash your cash in your mattress, because this time the banks must fail.

The latest and greatest is just in, the ECB is now Rumplestiltskin! Yes, they've decided they can spin junk into gold!
**
An announcement from the European Central Bank that it would suspend indefinitely the minimum credit rating threshold for collateral eligibility requirements for Greek sovereign debt failed to give the euro additional support.
**
IOW, Greek junk is now equally acceptable as collateral as German gold. And they are surprised the EURO dropped? Why not declare banana peels to be gold next? Or coffee grounds? Isn't this a very dangerous thing to do, as it essentially advertises "there is no reason to keep your bonds supported, if they are junk, we'll be fine with that"?

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE6 ... arketsNews

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-201 ... dlinesAsia

Notice that the French seem to approve. Of course, they've got a trillion in debt they bought from the PIIGS, and they'd like to unload on another sucker, TYVM.

John
Posts: 11485
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA USA
Contact:

Market Summary, Tuesday morning, May 4, 2010

Post by John »

-- Market Summary, Tuesday morning, May 4, 2010

Last week I wrote that there was full-fledged panic in progress, as
Greek bond prices were crashing, with a "contagion" effect on Portugal
and the euro. This past weekend's non-bailout bailout of Greece was
supposed to stop the panic, but it didn't. Then yesterday, the
European Central Bank invoked the 'nuclear option,' authorizing the
purchase of Greek junk bonds, but that hasn't helped.

Markets in Shanghai, Europe and New York have been falling rapidly.

It's clear that we're once again in a period of potential crisis.
When we were at such points previously, central banks around the world
did whatever they could with quantitative easing to stop the crash. I
won't underestimate their ability to do it again, but at some point
they're going to run out of ammunition.

P.S.: As I type this, I'm listening to President Obama speak about the
NYC attempted bombing investigation. He went on to talk about the
economy: "Last year the economy was in free fall. Now it's growing
again."

John

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