30-May-10 The rise of left-wing violence around the world

Discussion of Web Log and Analysis topics from the Generational Dynamics web site.
Oakwood
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:01 am

Re: 30-May-10 The rise of left-wing violence around the world

Post by Oakwood »

anon-guest wrote: Oakwood, I would take the time give your a lengthy rebuttal but its just not in me at the moment so I'll keep it short as frustrating as that might be for you. Basically, your argument falls apart immediately when you go straight to the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC). At this point in their existence the SPLC is little more than a mouthpiece for the American left. sorry, your gonna need more than that. Personally, I would have gone to this story http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37293723/ns ... nd_courts/. Though you may want to stay away from the the recent FBI raid in Michigan. Looks like the even the judge thinks the feds case is weak to put it nicely....
I don't need the SPLC to support the obvious. You're being disingenuous if you don't believe there are hundreds of right-wing militias that have risen around the country since Obama became president. How many left-wing militias are you aware of? And don't tell me it's the liberal MSM suppressing the information because the right-wing media is fully capable of telling the world proudly about leftist hate groups. The fact is that the right outnumbers them by a hundred to one (just a WAG). The SPLC has documented numerous deaths caused by right-wing extremists as well as foiled terrorist plots designed to kill many more. Show me some comparable stories from the conservative media. As for the case in Michigan, perhaps the evidence may be inadequate to convict these guys, but do you really think they were just a couple of good ole boys out playing army? As for your story, a supposed example of left-wing violence, I'm afraid you read the facts wrong. (Maybe some conservative blogger labeled him as a leftist loony thinking the best defense is a good offense). The guy was another out-to lunch conservative wing-nut who thinks the Constitution says we don't have to pay taxes or something like that.
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. — An Ohio man's resentment of authority and run-ins with the law was enough for a local sheriff to warn that he could be dangerous if confronted by law enforcement. Years later, the sheriff appears right: The man and his teenage son are suspected of fatally shooting two Arkansas police officers during a traffic stop before they died in a shootout.

Jerry Kane Jr., 45, of Forest, Ohio, and his son Joseph Kane, believed to be 16, were killed during an exchange of gunfire with officers in a Walmart parking lot, Arkansas State Police said Friday.

The shootings came about 90 minutes after West Memphis police Sgt. Brandon Paudert, 39, and Officer Bill Evans, 38, were attacked with AK-47 assault rifles after they stopped a minivan on Interstate 40 in West Memphis on Thursday, authorities said.

Jerry Kane, who had a long history with police, used the Internet to question federal and local governments' authority over him and held debt-elimination seminars around the country. He recently complained about being busted at a "Nazi checkpoint" near Carrizozo, N.M., where court records show he spent three days in jail before posting a $1,500 bond on charges of driving without a license and concealing his identity.

Sheriff Gene Kelly in Clark County, Ohio, said he issued a warning to law enforcement about Kane in July 2004, after Kane said a judge tried to "enslave" him when he was sentenced to six days of community service for driving with an expired license plate and no seat belt. Kane claimed he was a "free man" and asked for $100,000 per day in gold or silver, Kelly said.

"After listening to this man for almost 30 minutes, I feel that he is expecting and prepared for confrontations with any law enforcement officer that may come in contact with him," Kelly wrote in his warning to officers.

Kelly told The Associated Press on Friday that he had been "very concerned about a potential confrontation and about his resentment of authority."

On an Internet radio show, hosted on a website that lets amateurs create their own shows and live discussions, Kane expressed outrage about his New Mexico arrest.

"I ran into a Nazi checkpoint in the middle of New Mexico where they were demanding papers or jail," he said. "That was the option. Either produce your papers or go to jail. So I entered into commerce with them under threat, duress and coercion, and spent 47 hours in there."
Story continues below

Kane said he planned to file a counterclaim alleging kidnapping and extortion against those involved in his arrest and detention. Kane also said he had an officer sign a document that said the officer must pay for using Kane's name.

"I am now putting together an invoice for him for approximately $80,000 in gold for the eight times he used my name," Kane said on the radio show. "I already have done a background check on him. I found out where he lives, his address, his wife's name."

Mark Potok, who directs hate-group research at the Southern Poverty Law Center, said Kane had not been in the group's database before Thursday. But he said that was not surprising, given the "explosive growth" in the anti-government movement in recent years. With 363 new groups in 2009, there are now 512, Potok said.

Members of so-called patriot groups don't recognize the authority of the U.S. government and consider themselves sovereign citizens.

JJ MacNab, a Maryland-based insurance analyst who has testified before Congress on tax and financial scams, said she had been tracking Kane for about two years and that his business centered on debt-avoidance scams.

Potok said such scams are common in the sovereign citizen movement.

"He basically promised them they would never have to repay their mortgage or credit card debt," MacNab said.

Kane's website showed he held one of his seminars in Las Vegas 15-16 and that he was due to appear in Safety Harbor, Fla., May 28-29. His website Friday asked that donations be sent to an address in Clearwater, Fla., to help his family.

At that Florida address, a woman, speaking through the front door, told an AP reporter to leave the property when he knocked and identified himself. Two bicycles were in front of the unkempt, single-story home and exercise equipment was on the porch. A sign on the front door read: "No visitors. This means you. Thank you for understanding."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/2 ... 86127.html

freddyv
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Location: Oregon, USA
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Re: Financial topics

Post by freddyv »

Oakwood wrote: Or so Fox news would have you believe. There is no "Tea Party"; there are bunches of Tea Baggers who are pissed off at the government, but they don't have a unified vision or set of goals. Surveys have shown they are wealthier, whiter, more conservative and older than the base American population. They want to make sure their Medicare and Social Security isn't endangered and that we can continue to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan. Tell me, how are these people going to help us institute austerity? IMO Fox news (in a brilliant political move) organized this movement to attack Obama and, in particular, to attack universal health care. They'll keep attacking Obama, but I don't really see this movement going anywhere in terms of enforcing austerity.

Oakwood will probably not believe me but I KNOW that what he says is highly inaccurate because I consider myself part of the Tea Party Movement and I know that most Tea Party Members are conservative and white and wealthier than average but they are also more likely to provide for others and pay their taxes. Here is THE TRUTH, Oakwood, not from Fox News or MSNBC but from a TEA PARTY Person: I love that we elected a black man president; I want to pay my fair share of taxes; I tithe every month and pay the salaries of a number of people; I allow my niece and her son to live rent-free in my guest house as long as she works to better herself OR it is the best thing for her 4-year old son; I am conservative but can't stand Rush or Hannity's shows and would never think of restricting the freedom of speech of anyone for any reason; I support the military but did not think we should have gone into Iraq and think we should have gotten out of Afghanistan long ago; I would like to see everyone in the country be given a basic level of healthcare but do not want the government involved in mine and will gladly pay for it myself; I prefer that problems be solved locally and currently give to 6 different people or organizations from the local Children's Advocacy Center to a friend's daughter who is trying to make her way through college; I am angry.

I am angry, Oakwood. I am angry that I am one of the few people I know who actually pays taxes. I know many people who have simply stopped working because they have found that the government will support them. I am angry that the money I pay in taxes should be going to the military and to those who are truly unable to support themselves but instead goes to politicians and big corporations and people who don't even know they are supposed to work because of our "tolerant" society.

Oakwood, most Tea Party people are not racist and do not like big government OR big business' influence in big government.

You use of the pejorative term, "Tea Baggers" shows who you really are and that you have not taken the time to get to know any Tea Party people.

Fred
http://www.acclaiminvesting.com/

OLD1953
Posts: 946
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:16 pm

Re: Financial topics

Post by OLD1953 »

Freddy - well, I feel the same frustration, but it's not going to be solved by a third political party - save as that party influences the major parties to move in its direction. The Tea Party has not yet jelled, and until it does, it's anyones guess as to how it will develop.

What your actual frustration is about probably isn't what you verbalize it about, mine, at least, is a good bit simpler. I'm sick and tired of a crapload of people who want something for nothing.

That includes all the "value added" jerks who stick a different sticker on a faceplate and sell it as theirs. I'm tired of the Wall Streeters who don't add value to anything, but just bribe lawmakers to make their various schemes legal. I'm tired of CEO's who run a company in the ground to jack up the stock prices and then bail while they can make a billion. I'm tired of insurance companies who think 300% profit on malpractice insurance is not enough. I'm tired of politicians who don't read the bills they vote on. I'm tired of House and Senate leaders who allow massive bills to come to a vote when they know they can't have been studied as the time to study them wasn't allowed. I'm tired of self inflicted "disability" cases that get a free ride.

And I'm really tired of hearing how something I've paid for all my life, Social Security, is somehow bankrupt with over two trillion in bonds in the kitty. What, you can't adjust anything with that two trillion as a cushion? Oh, would that I could run a "bankrupt" company with two trillion in the coffers. (Yes, I've seen all that stuff Oakwood, but by that line of reasoning every insurance company in the world was bankrupt 80 years ago - not one of them can pay every policy at once which is exactly what those figures demand of the SSA. Somehow they just keep on selling annuities and making good.)

Does that peg your frustrations pretty accurately? Because every one of those is all about someone who either want's something for nothing, or wants HUGE RETURNS for a much smaller investment or just flat out doesn't want to pay up. There is such a thing as reasonable proportion in the world.

On the market, well, I never thought the bear went away. The market has never gotten above the former high, unless I managed to miss it (and I'm sure I didn't) and until it did, we were still in a long bear.

Oakwood, during the former hyperinflations the US didn't have a fourth of the world's gold reserves, either. It's not possible to muscle the US around with gold, can't be done.

Oakwood
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:01 am

Re: Financial topics

Post by Oakwood »

In response to freddyv: You had me at "I love that we elected a black man president." It seems to me that you are an atypical Tea Partier, for all the reasons you listed. (By the way I think the racist aspect of the TPM has been way overplayed). If all the Tea Partiers were like you, hell, I'd join, but then who would watch Fox news? I'm curious, what has been your experience rubbing shoulders with your fellow party members. Is it not true that you don't share many of the same values, and don't you find that they quote Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly and the rest of the gang?

Oakwood
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:01 am

Re: 30-May-10 The rise of left-wing violence around the world

Post by Oakwood »

John wrote: There are literally hundreds of topics that I might write about
each day. I select the topics that I believe are most important to my
readers.
John wrote: Hollywood actor Kevin Costner has a team that has been working on "centrifugal separator" technology for 15 years, and he claims that his technology could be part of the solution to cleaning up the Gulf of Mexico oil spill. LA Times... Al and Tipper Gore, who have been married for 40 years, announced that they intend to separate. Politico
(News you'll only find here, news that helps you understand GD.)

John
Posts: 11479
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Re: 30-May-10 The rise of left-wing violence around the world

Post by John »

Oakwood - Many of the things you've posted in this forum have been way
across the line, and have been offensive to me and other forum
members. I'm responding to you here.
Oakwood wrote: > Are you serious? That statement, along with the rest of your
> article, again makes me conclude that you have a far-right bias,
> IMHO. (To say nothing of the fact that you frequently babble on
> about the loony left, never mentioning the rabid right). Yes, the
> left do get violent sometimes in America, but most of the time
> their rioting involves property crimes, as did that incident in
> Santa Cruz. In the U.S. when there's a riot involving leftists and
> somebody dies, it's usually because the cops killed them. And
> despite their frequent attachment to Christianity, right-wingers
> are much more interested in hurting other people than leftists
> are. The article below comes from the Southern Poverty Law Center,
> a (politically neutral) highly respected organization which
> studies hate crimes in the U.S. (The article doesn't even address
> the threats toward and murders of abortionists and bombings of
> abortion clinics which originate from "devout" right-wing
> Christians). If you've ever been in a prison, you'd know you'd
> rather be in a cell with a left-wing loony instead of a right-wing
> skinhead, even you John. Now tell me where the real violence is
> coming from and try to get your facts straight and keep your
> biases out.
Oh, really? Then I guess it's perfectly OK with you for someone to
bomb an abortion clinic, as long as it was in the middle of the night,
so no one would get hurt. After all, as you say, it's just a
"property crime," so you're all in favor of it, right?

And I wouldn't like to be in a cell with one of those "peace
activists" who were clubbing people on the boat to gaza, or one of the
"peaceful protestors" who actually were Ronin warriors murdering
people in Bangkok a couple of weeks ago.

Your rantings don't even make sense. In one case you refer to
left-wing protestors being killed by the cops, where I interpret your
point to mean the "right-wing cops." And then you quote an article
about shootings of policemen as also being right-wing crimes. Well,
by your logic, shouldn't shooting a policeman be a left-wing crime?

And the you quote the ultra-far-left-wing racist hate group SPLC as
saying that anyone who opposes President Obama's policies is part of
the "explosive growth in the anti-government movement," resulting in
"a year of hate and extremism." Apparently it's OK to call President
Bush a fascist, a nazi, and a war criminal, but it's not ok to be
against President Obama's health care proposal. Opposing Bush is
patriotic, but opposing Obama is racist and fascist, according to you
and SPLC.

Or how about this: "Furious anti-immigrant vigilante groups soared by
nearly 80%." I don't know whether anti-immigrant groups are
right-wing or left-wing, but I do know that both Republicans AND
Democrats in Arizona are strongly in favor of the anti-immigrant bill.

Gee, I certainly hope that James Carville is on the SPLC's extremist
hate group list, because he completely fits the SPLC description of
hatred and extremism.

** 31-May-10 News -- Louisiana versus the United States
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/cgi ... 31#e100531


Perhaps you could check for us on whether Carville is on the SPLC
list.

Or how about America's racist-bigot-in-chief, Bill Maher, who now says
the following:
Bill Maher wrote: > "I thought when we elected a black president, we were going to get
> a black president. You know, this [BP oil spill] is where I want a
> real black president. I want him in a meeting with the BP CEOs,
> you know, where he lifts up his shirt so you can see the gun in
> his pants. That's -- (in black man voice) 'we've got a
> motherfu**ing problem here?' Shoot somebody in the foot."
> http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... ident.html
Gosh, is Maher on the SPLC's list of people in extremist hate groups?
Please check that out for me, would you?

Also, when Hillary Clinton was running against Obama in 2008, both
Bill and Hillary were identified as racists by the Obama campaign.
Please check to make sure that both of them are on the SPLC list.

As far as I can tell from your rants, you automatically assume that
any violent crime must automatically be right-wing violence,
especially if the perpetrator expresses any disagreement with the
U.S. government, even the IRS. Is it even possible for anyone on the
left wing to even commit a crime, in your view? If someone dislikes
President Bush and commits a crime, is that left-wing violence?

In my article about the rise of left-wing violence, I wasn't talking
about individual crimes committed by individual people, like the ones
you're describing. I was talking about organized movements. The Tea
Party movement is an organized movement, and they're anti-government,
and they generally dislike and oppose Obama's policies, but those darn
Tea Partiers won't cooperate with you by killing someone, even though
the SPLC thinks that they're "shot through with racism."

Your rantings are some of the worst examples I've seen of what I've
been writing about. You're so full of bigotry and hatred that your
rants don't even make sense.

This is the stuff of history. Attitudes like yours can be seen
throughout history, and the people who hold those views are just as
certain of their "facts" and the validity of their bigoted views as
you are.

The Nazis didn't think of themselves a bigoted. They had all the
"facts" that they needed: Every time a Jewish banker screwed someone,
to the Nazis it proved that ALL Jews are criminals, and ALL Jews were
responsible for German's humiliation in WW I and for the subsequent
financial crisis. And besides that, Jews were filthy, according to
the Nazi reasoning, and engaged in perverted sexual activities.

The KKK didn't think of themselves as bigoted. They had all the
"facts" that they needed: Every time a black person committed a crime,
to the KKK it proved that ALL black people are criminals, and that
black people were taking money and jobs from decent white folks. And
besides that, black people were filthy, according to the KKK
reasoning, and engaged in perverted sexual activities.

And you don't think of yourself as bigoted. You have all the "facts"
you need: Every time any crime is committed by someone who opposes
Obama's policies, to you it proves that ALL people who oppose Obama's
policies are right-wing racist extremists who want to hurt people and
discriminate against decent left-wing people like yourself. And
besides that, Tea Partiers are filthy, according to your reasoning,
and engage in perverted sexual activities, which is why you and others
of your ilk constantly call them "tea baggers."

You epitomize the worst types of hatred and bigotry, and one of the
reasons that you're the worst is that you're so certain that your
"facts" are right.

John

shoshin
Posts: 211
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:05 pm

Re: 30-May-10 The rise of left-wing violence around the world

Post by shoshin »

Thanks, John....overdue

thomasglee
Posts: 686
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:07 pm
Location: Texas

Re: 30-May-10 The rise of left-wing violence around the world

Post by thomasglee »

shoshin wrote:Thanks, John....overdue
I second the thanks.

I don't mind challenges to positions as long as the challenge is intellectually honest, concise and made in an intelligent and understandable manner.

All of which has been lacking in some who tend to disagree with you.
Psalm 34:4 - “I sought the Lord, and he answered me and delivered me from all my fears.”

JR

Re: 30-May-10 The rise of left-wing violence around the world

Post by JR »

Good Evening,

John, thank you again, I understand your point about labeling violence as left or right - essentially useless, both extremist perspectives are similar.
Oakwood - Many of the things you've posted in this forum have been way
across the line, and have been offensive to me and other forum members.
Agreed. Oakwood, be nice.
Your rantings don't even make sense. In one case you refer to
left-wing protestors being killed by the cops, where I interpret your
point to mean the "right-wing cops." And then you quote an article
about shootings of policemen as also being right-wing crimes. Well,
by your logic, shouldn't shooting a policeman be a left-wing crime?
The point may be, where does serious violence originate (in the US)? Seldom from the left wing, often from the right. This seems like a possibly accurate observation.
And the you quote the ultra-far-left-wing racist hate group SPLC ...
Oh dear, John, John, John ...
Apparently it's OK to call President Bush a fascist, a nazi, and a war criminal, but it's not ok to be against President Obama's health care proposal.
Maybe wars are different from domestic health care policy.
And you don't think of yourself as bigoted. You have all the "facts"
you need: Every time any crime is committed by someone who opposes
Obama's policies, to you it proves that ALL people who oppose Obama's
policies are right-wing racist extremists who want to hurt people and
discriminate against decent left-wing people like yourself.
I don't understand the support for this blanket statement.
And besides that, Tea Partiers are filthy, according to your reasoning,
and engage in perverted sexual activities, which is why you and others
of your ilk constantly call them "tea baggers."
Ummm ...

John, I wonder if the people who created this website:
http://teabagparty.org/
might, perhaps, have a lot to learn about politics? Whoever picked the teabag name, picked it, and no blame to anyone but themselves.

JR

Oakwood
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:01 am

Re: 30-May-10 The rise of left-wing violence around the world

Post by Oakwood »

John wrote: Your rantings are some of the worst examples I've seen of what I've
been writing about. You're so full of bigotry and hatred that your
rants don't even make sense.
I think the real problem here is that the voices in your own head are preventing you from hearing what I'm saying. I would say you excel at rants. In reviewing my posts and your posts, I can't find a single example where I've called you a derogatory name, yet you have called me an imbecile, an idiot, a troll, "the worst," and perhaps some other things. (which I believe directly violates your website rules). Any time I counter a point you make, you make an ad hominem attack and barely address the issue. You act arrogant and condescending. For instance:
John wrote: Well, you seem to grasp that Obama has become a clone of Bush. You've gotten that far. Now, if any part of your brain is still capable of logic and reason...
(Now I say this as a professional, not to be condescending): The fact is you either have a deficit in logic or you use a method of arguing that you think is slick, but is really just a means to distract. For instance, I said,
I find absolutely no comfort in the fact that Obama has become a clone of Bush--in fact, it worries me a great deal.
and your response was quite concrete (that's a psychological term meaning the opposite of abstract.):
John wrote: I can't imagine for the life of me why you think that your comfort
bears any relevance at all to this issue. No one finds comfort in a
coming world war. Generational Dynamics isn't about making you
comfortable, or anybody else comfortable. It's about analyzing
generational trends to determine where the world is and where the
world is going. Comfort is irrelevant.
So when I said it gave me no comfort that Obama had become a clone of Bush, I was using a figure of speech. I was using the word "comfort" to express my dismay that Obama had become like Bush. I think this would be obvious to a 5th grader. But what's your response? You spend an entire paragraph discussing the issue of comfort. You take the word comfort literally. So either you are either being totally disingenuous,or you have the level of IQ that you accuse me of. And this is not an isolated incident. You do this frequently. In fact, you often fail to make abstract interpretations as well as make incorrect logical inferences.
John wrote: And I wouldn't like to be in a cell with one of those "peace activists" who were clubbing people on the boat to gaza,
There you go again. First of all, if you recall, the topic of my post was violence in America, not the rest of the world. Secondly, as you yourself pointed out those people were in no way peace protestors--they were there for a fight. Just because they label themselves as peace protestors doesn't make them left-wingers. Besides that's an international conflict so you tell me whose on the left and whose on the right.
John wrote: In one case you refer to
left-wing protestors being killed by the cops, where I interpret your
point to mean the "right-wing cops." And then you quote an article
about shootings of policemen as also being right-wing crimes. Well,
by your logic, shouldn't shooting a policeman be a left-wing crime?
Wrong, wrong. I don't consider the cops right or left wing. Cops are cops. Shooting a cop is wrong. Period. If you check the records you'll see that most (all?) the police that have been killed in the past few years by political violence has been due to right wing groups.
And you quote the ultra-far-left-wing racist hate group SPLC...
John, find me a mainstream source that calls the SPLC a ultra-far-left-wing racist hate group or anything close. I like how you need two adjectives to identify how far to the left they are--ultra and far. Man they must really be to the left. Are they more to the left than the Communist Party? Even if you completely ignore the Tea Party there is no question that there has been an increase in radical far-right hate groups. Even the FBI acknowledges that. Or are they part of the far left, too?
John wrote: Also, when Hillary Clinton was running against Obama in 2008, both
Bill and Hillary were identified as racists by the Obama campaign.
So what, lots of things are said during campaigns. (Although some things you can never take back, like the fact that Sarah Palin thinks Africa is a country).
John wrote: Apparently it's OK to call President Bush a fascist, a nazi, and a war criminal, but it's not ok to be against President Obama's health care proposal.
First of all, there's a difference when a major news channel (Fox) implies that the President of the U.S. is a Nazi and a fascist. Yes, Fox has done that. Although they have never said it verbally, they have superimposed Obama's words and his picture over pictures of Nazi rallies. Recently you had Newt Gingrich comparing Obama's policies being as dangerous as those as Mao's, Hitler's, and Stalin's. Fox repeatedly calls Obama a socialist and worse. Find me evidence of comparable behavior by the media or the Democratic leadership during Bush's term. Since when is invading a independent country (leading to the deaths of 4000+ Americans and 35000+ wounded) comparable to passing health care legislation? In many ways they're the opposite. Every year 40,000 people die because they have no access to health care (or is that just another liberal left lie?)
John wrote: As far as I can tell from your rants, you automatically assume that
any violent crime must automatically be right-wing violence,
especially if the perpetrator expresses any disagreement with the
U.S. government, even the IRS.
Seriously, did you dream that? please tell me what I wrote that made you say that. I'm really curious by what (lack of) logical process you came up with that statement.
John wrote: n my article about the rise of left-wing violence, I wasn't talking about individual crimes committed by individual people, like the ones you're describing. I was talking about organized movements.
When in doubt, use the fudge (weasel) factor. Actually, if you look at the serious incidents of violence on the right, these guys were generally connected to some type of Patriot or similar group like we don't have to pay our taxes group. So there.
John wrote: You're so full of bigotry and hatred that your rants don't even make sense....The Nazis didn't think of themselves a bigoted....The KKK didn't think of themselves as bigoted....And you don't think of yourself as bigoted. You have all the "facts"
you need: Every time any crime is committed by someone who opposes Obama's policies, to you it proves that ALL people who oppose Obama's
policies are right-wing racist extremists who want to hurt people and discriminate against decent left-wing people like yourself.
Slow down John. Man you covered a lot of ground, all the way from Obama to the Nazis to the KKK back to me. Glenn Beck could not have done a better job. (The reason I compare you to Glenn Beck is because you use the same techniques of propoganda: you're not calling me a Nazi or a member of the KKK, but like Glenn Beck(who never directly calls Obama a Nazi) you're using the emotion of association. The Nazis and KKK didn't think they were bigoted and I don't either, but because you've "proven" I really am, then I'm a Nazi and a Klansman in other ways, too.

Look, this discussion all started because you said there's an explosion of left-wing violence and "And yet, right-wing violence is almost non-existent today, and shows no sign of growing." You wanted to know, "How is that possible?" Now i presented evidence that in fact there is some (what I would consider to be a lot of) right wing violence, and what is your response? You say I'm bigoted. You say that any time a crime is committed by someone who opposes Obama's policies then I believe all people who oppose Obama are right-wing racist extremists. That, by the way is a real failure of logic, because I never implied that; I believe most people have no intention of harming Obama. So either you are showing again an inability to abstract or you are just using inflammatory rhetoric.
John wrote: And besides that, Tea Partiers are filthy, according to your reasoning, and engage in perverted sexual activities, which is why you and others of your ilk constantly call them "tea baggers."
Well, I hope, like myself, they engage in perverted sexual activities, but since most of them are Republicans we can only dream and pray. Someone once said that a Republican is a person who fears that somebody somewhere is enjoying himself. Actually John I use the term because I know how much you dislike it. This is another example how you jump to conclusions with few facts, another problem of logical processing.

As I said previously: You take pleasure in belittling people who don't agree with you. You're not just condescending, you're actually sadistic. I assume you've had some serious narcissistic injuries when you were growing up, and now you struggle with the fact that the intelligentsia have failed to recognize what you think is a brilliant theory. When someone criticizes you now, you lash out in anger. But you accomplish nothing by insulting people except making yourself look weak and small-minded.
Remembering Law Enforcement Victims of Right-Wing Extremists
Posted in Extremist Crime by Sonia Scherr on May 12, 2010


More law enforcement officers were killed last year by right-wing extremists than in any other year since the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing.

Six officers were slain in 2009 by those subscribing to far-right views, making the first year of Obama’s presidency the deadliest since 1995 for extremist attacks against police officers. The fallen officers are among those being remembered during National Police Week, which runs through Saturday with events in Washington, D.C. They include three Pittsburgh police officers killed by a racist and anti-Semitic gunman, two Florida sheriff’s deputies who were shot by a man with militia interests, and a security guard who was murdered by a white supremacist at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum. (For a complete list of officers slain by radical rightists since 1995, see here and here.)

Since 1990, law enforcement officers have comprised nearly 15% of the victims of far-right killings — or 49 out of more than 400 fatalities, according to a report published last month by the University of Maryland. Local and state officers have accounted for more than 70% of these law enforcement deaths. Only 1995 saw as many officers killed by extremists as last year, with six officers dying, five of them in the Oklahoma City bombing.

Far-right extremists were energized last year by the election of the first black president, concerns about the possibility of tighter gun laws, the immigration debate, and the poor economy. Interestingly, the three killers of law enforcement officers all expressed unhappiness with the president. A friend of Richard Poplawski, who is charged with murdering the Pittsburgh officers, told The Associated Press that the unemployed 23-year-old feared “the Obama gun ban that’s on the way.” The wife of U.S. Army Reservist Joshua Cartwright, who fatally shot the two Okaloosa County sheriff’s deputies before being killed himself, told officials that her husband was “severely disturbed” by Obama’s election. (Cartwright was also interested in militia groups.) And James von Brunn, the 88-year-old Holocaust museum shooter, wrote in a notebook found in his car that “Obama was created by Jews. Obama does what his Jew owners tell him to do,” according to a police affidavit.

Von Brunn’s victim, museum guard Stephen T. Johns, was among the fallen officers remembered at a memorial service in Washington D.C. this week. Johns was fatally shot on June 10, 2009, as he opened the museum door for von Brunn, a longtime white supremacist who later died in prison while awaiting trial. D.C. Police Chief Cathy Lanier, quoted by The Associated Press, said on Monday that Johns put himself between visitors and von Brunn, enabling other guards to incapacitate the shooter. “Officer Johns’ presence and gallant act on that fateful day saved countless lives,” she said.
The bottom line is there has been a dramatic increase in right wing violence (especially murder) in the past few years). I'm willing to bet I'm right. How about you make a list of incidents of serious left and right-wing violence in the U.S. in the past two or three years. If the number of right wing episodes exceeds left-wing episodes, I win. Otherwise you win. Or even better, we can test your predictive powers. Let's study the number of incidents over the next year. Again, I bet the number of right wing events exceed the number of left-wing episodes of violence in the U.S. If you win, I'll donate $100 to the charity of your choice. If I win you donate to the charity of my choice.
Last edited by Oakwood on Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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