Dear Raymonde,
Raynote wrote:
> boqueronman and ridgel (2nd paragraph): I couldn't agree more!
> I'm sorry to say that John doesn't have a clue about the
> "unreasonable" growth of the muslim immigration in Europe over the
> past 20 years. We have had immigration before, for example in
> France: Polish people in the twenties, Spanish, Portuguese and
> Italian in the fifties ans sixties, people from Vietnam, Laos, and
> China in the seventies and eighties, Chinese still coming
> today. These people were never a problem to us although they were
> quite different from us French.
> They were (or are) hard-working populations and they brought a lot
> to the country, unlike the whining, demanding, offensive and
> sometimes violent population that I mentionned before.
> And they are still arriving by the hundreds of thousands every
> year. But you aren't allowed to say anything, you can't protest or
> you will be branded a racist. So the French people just shut up
> and bear it as well as they can... but for how long?
You say that I'm wrong, but you don't say what I'm wrong about. I
agree with everything you say -- there is a lot of perfectly reasoable
anger at Muslims, for the reasons you state.
But the heart of xenophobia is that those attitudes extend to the
entire class.
I don't doubt for moment that a percentage, even a large percentage,
of the Muslims fit the "whining, demanding, offensive and sometimes
violent population" description that you've provided.
In fact, check out the following article:
** 5-Sep-10 News -- Thousands protest Gypsy expulsions from France
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/cgi ... 05#e100905
In that article, I quoted a number of people who say the same sorts of
things about Gypsies that you're saying about Muslims. So I'm not
disputing your characterization at all. In fact, it's clear that the
Muslims and Gypsies have even more extreme xenophobic and hate-filled
attitudes towards the Europeans than vice-versa. Everything I read
about them seethes with this hatred.
The problem is that not all Muslims and not all Gypsies fit that
description, and they're being treated the same way. And the problem
with that is that it creates a vicious circle. Contempt increases on
both sides, leading to continually increasing mutual xenophobia.
Let me just add one more thing, Raymonde: This is on the verge of
becoming a very explosive situation. All it will take is one trigger
on one side or the other to create real violence. We've already seen
a small example of that with the murder of Theo van Gogh.
Actually, come to think of it, we've already seen some major examples
of this in France. In 2005, young Muslims rioted in the Paris
suburbs, and then in 2006, young Frenchmen got revenge against the
Muslims by rioting in Paris.
** France's Nicolas Sarkozy says 'Let them eat cake!'
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/cgi ... 02#e051102
** France: Jacques Chirac caves in to street protests
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/cgi ... 11#e060411
Since 2006, xenophobia has been increasing on both sides. With the
right kind of trigger, those two separate rioting events could be
combined into a single mass riot, involving mutual killing. I'm sure
you're aware that such a thing would not be unheard of in French
history, and it's the MAJOR thing that European elders have been
trying to avoid with the Treaty of Rome and the European Union.
It's a very painful situation to watch. I don't want to blame either
side, but I'm just saying that it's happening.
John