28-Apr-11 News-Palestinian factions announce reconciliation

Discussion of Web Log and Analysis topics from the Generational Dynamics web site.
Jack Edwards
Posts: 117
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:47 pm

Re: 28-Apr-11 News-Palestinian factions announce reconciliat

Post by Jack Edwards »

Dear Shoshin – thanks for the response.
As for his being "qualified." Well, by your definition, who is qualified? It's not as though there is a training program for being President, except maybe being Vice President. I'd rather have a smart, creative individual, rather than a dull-witted politician.(Can you say "Dan Quayle" or Spiro Agnew" or "Gerald Ford"?) No offense to any of those folks, as I think it's an "on-the-job" learning process, and what you need are values and principles, which I will admit, Obama is weak on.]
While it’s true that the Presidency is unlike any other type of job, I believe there are things that one can do to give sufficient evidence that they are qualified to manage and lead a large government organization. I’ve interviewed and hired hundreds of people in my career. The main key thing I’ve learned when determining promotions and filling vacancies is that past performance is the best indicator of future success. A Presidential candidate needs experience managing something large. A Senator of less than 4 years simply hasn’t had enough evidence of past performance to be considered. My preferred presidential candidate would have experience managing his own business, some years in the congress/senate and two terms as a Governor. In that way, his/her track record is established and I would feel comfortable casting my vote for them after reviewing their record. In the last Presidential election, none of the candidates had these qualifications. Sarah Palin was the closest (and I wouldn’t have voted for her for a host of other reasons). I don’t care that McCain was a war hero/prisoner of war. Tell me what he’s done when he’s been in charge of managing something! Tell me how his State was when he took office as Governor and how it was when he left – then I’ll have something to judge him by. There are probably other things one can do besides being a Governor to show sufficient executive experience – being a military general, or being a successful major CEO – (but then I would ask the question “do they have sufficient political experience to be President?”).

As for President Obama being week on values and principles – I don’t quite agree. While he doesn’t reflect my values and principles, I think he has been consistent and predictable. I think he could be more open about what his real principles and values are. I think Clinton and Bush Sr. had less core values than President Obama. I agree that I would strongly prefer a President that has core beliefs and principles guiding his decisions (rather than “how will this affect my chances at reelection?).
As for the youtube "evidence" it is nonsense, but that won't stop anybody.]
Come on – you can do better than that… Just dismissing a legitimate concern as “nonsense” isn’t helpful. The videos purport to show that the images were tampered with and then go on to show evidence of why that’s so. The documents in question were downloaded from whitehouse.gov – I think they are legitimate. http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default ... g-form.pdf

My guess is that the document is legitimate and the concerns raised in the videos can be explained away by the process used by the scanner when the OCR button is pushed – but I’m not enough of a scanner expert to be certain. When I watched them – I found them compelling until I did a little more research – wherein I just became uncertain. The sad thing is, it wouldn’t surprise if the documents were forged. As you and other’s have noted, the controversy is still out there – and isn’t going away, just because he produced a birth certificate.

I wish instead of arguing about birth certificates, we could debate something meaningful – like how to really live within our means as a nation.

Regards Jack

JR

Re: 28-Apr-11 News-Palestinian factions announce reconciliat

Post by JR »

Mr. Edwards:

You implore,
Come on – you can do better than that… Just dismissing a legitimate concern as “nonsense” isn’t helpful. The videos purport to show that the images were tampered with and then go on to show evidence of why that’s so.
So, if you think this is "a legitimate concern," is it your claim that the responsible officials of the State of Hawaii have been duped, or rather that they are active co-conspirators in a monstrous, treasonous fraud? And further, if either of the first is true, is it your claim that officials of the Executive Branch with relevant knowledge, from top to bottom, are consciously participating in this monstrous, treasonous fraud? And may I inquire as to the specific identities and motives of the original perpetrators of this outrage?

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." So let's see your proof - not some vague "concern" - that the birth certificate has been doctored, when, in what ways exactly, and by whom. And please list by title or by name some of the people who you think are today directly participating in or covering up this fraud.

Jack Edwards
Posts: 117
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:47 pm

Re: 28-Apr-11 News-Palestinian factions announce reconciliat

Post by Jack Edwards »

So, if you think this is "a legitimate concern," is it your claim that the responsible officials of the State of Hawaii have been duped, or rather that they are active co-conspirators in a monstrous, treasonous fraud? And further, if either of the first is true, is it your claim that officials of the Executive Branch with relevant knowledge, from top to bottom, are consciously participating in this monstrous, treasonous fraud? And may I inquire as to the specific identities and motives of the original perpetrators of this outrage?

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." So let's see your proof - not some vague "concern" - that the birth certificate has been doctored, when, in what ways exactly, and by whom. And please list by title or by name some of the people who you think are today directly participating in or covering up this fraud.
JR ]


Sigh…. I suppose I deserve this for wading into a controversial subject, normally I shy away from those. Overall, the entire handling of this birth certificate thing has been extremely odd. So odd, that people not prone to conspiracy theories (like me) begin to wonder – “what is going on here?”. For life of me, I do not understand why this document wasn’t produced years ago. It should have been, it was a reasonable request when Hillary started asking 2 years ago. The fact that it wasn’t is extremely suspicious.

Do I believe that it is possible that some sort of conspiracy is afoot involving Hawaii/Exectutive Branch? I certainly believe it’s possible, though I doubt it’s likely. I believe there are people who are so partisan and true believers to their cause that they would feel justified in covering this up – whatever the cost. People that have that much of their lives involved in politics are like religious zealots to their chosen cause. The opposing ideology is evil and must be destroyed –etc. etc.

As for extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof – Bah. The burden of proof is on President Obama, it always has been. He put off making the documentation available like he should have years ago and now is acting like everyone else is being unreasonable. Give me a break. I don’t need to list by title or name who could be responsible – I’m just some dude asking what I think is a reasonable question. All I seem to be getting is attacked for daring to wonder if the images are doctored.

There are those who will always doubt that President Obama was born in this country – nothing will convince them. I’m not one of those people. This morning I looked at news story regarding it and then followed a link saying that some thought it was a fraud. I watched a youtube video, then another youtube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eOfYwYy ... ded#at=260

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ2Gv_q-DJ8

I couldn’t dismiss what I saw as nonsense. I asked my son what he thought about them, since he’s a web developer – he’s not sure either, but thinks the images might be doctored. I read comments others made about the videos- but those were mostly inane – name calling affairs. After a while I observed that some people said the anomalies in the image are an effect of using OCR software while scanning. Maybe they are right. I don’t know. If anyone else out there knows something about OCR software and scanning and would like to comment – please – add something valuable to the conversation rather than attacking me. If the videos are full of crap – tell me why. I would love to know so I can go worry about something more important.

Regards

Jack

John
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Re: 28-Apr-11 News-Palestinian factions announce reconciliat

Post by John »

JR wrote: > Well, I'm a Democrat, and I never heard of that movie. What did it
> gross? Who was the hero?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0853096/
JR wrote: > When Clarence Thomas claimed to be the victim of a "high-tech
> lynching," that's what's called "playing the race card." In my
> opinion, he did what Anita Hill claimed he did. He admitted that
> such behavior was despicable, as head of the EEOC he absolutely
> knew better at the time, and in my opinion he lied about it under
> oath before Congress. And his performance in office has been
> abyssmal. Full-spirited defense of such a person's accomplishments
> seems highly partisan to me.
He didn't do anything to Anita Hill except tell her a couple of dirty
jokes and ask her out, all the while giving her big raises and
promoting her. As a fathers' rights advocate, Clarence Thomas has
always been something of a hero to me because he stood up to the
feminist assholes and beat them, while Anita Hill became a hated,
pathetic professor of feminist basketweaving at Brandeis. Thomas'
performance in office has been fine -- a lot better than Obama's
performance in office. Your "opinion" that Thomas lied is similar to
Republicans who say that Obama has lied, and who, as a result, get
charged with racism. And your claim that his performance was
"abysmal" is similar to the racist remarks made by northern white
liberals who hate Thomas because he beat the feminist assholes, is
black, and has a white wife.

See the following:

** Collapse of Duke rape case represents cultural change
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/cgi ... 22#e070422

JR wrote: > So why doesn't your rhetoric reflect this claim? Honestly, while I
> think there's a lot to be said for Generational Dynamics theory,
> and I value and appreciate the wonderful nuggets of international
> news you show forth and place in context, your rhetoric often
> betrays a huge bias which undermines the credibility that this
> excellent website and news source deserves.
I haven't had a good word for any politician, Republican or Democrat,
in years. (Semi-exceptions would be Ben Bernanke and, in this
posting, Clarence Thomas.) What you're used to is the mainstream
media, which is 100% in the tank for Democrats and Obama, no matter
how many stupid mistakes they make, and consider Republicans to be
evil and racist. Whenever someone isn't 100% in the tank for Obama,
people like you call him "biased." My position is that Democrats and
Republicans are equally stupid, racist, evil and biased.

I don't disagree with David that some Republicans are racist. I'm
simply saying that just as many northern white liberal Democrats
are racist as well. In the case of Democrats, the case of
Clarence Thomas illustrates that racism very well.

I discussed this quite a bit in the following:

** American xenophobia on the Left and on the Right
** http://www.generationaldynamics.com/cgi ... 07#e101107


John

shoshin
Posts: 211
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:05 pm

Re: 28-Apr-11 News-Palestinian factions announce reconciliat

Post by shoshin »

ok, my last hurrah on this topic (I hope)...

John, I think Is sadi that ALL of us are racists at heart, that xenophobia is a natural human trait, to fear "the other" is almost innate ("that tribe over the mountain wants to kill us, take our women and our land!...let's get them first!")....but social evolution can at least teach us that an approach like that is (usually) wrong, and we can, in the immortal words of Rodney King, "all just get along."

As for Presidential "qualifications", here's my take: management experience is useless (we had an "MBA President" and you can discuss amongst yourselves how that worked out). The President's role is to inspire and animate the citizenry. The citizens can then influence their elected representatives to pass legislation to fulfill the President's agenda. Think FDR versus just about anyone else (I know that will provoke some more conversation) I think Obama had a chance to do this (say, with national health Insurance), but he failed to inspire, and fell back on "let's all be bipartisan together." John would say, and I agree, that the Generational situation is not ready for that, we have to have genuine crisis that unites us and washes away all these petty non-issues.Bu that's what I meant about lacking strength in values and principles.

As for birth certificate, I can't believe we are still having this discussion, and I QUIT!

John
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Re: 28-Apr-11 News-Palestinian factions announce reconciliat

Post by John »

Dear David,
shoshin wrote: > John, I think Is sadi that ALL of us are racists at heart, that
> xenophobia is a natural human trait, to fear "the other" is almost
> innate ("that tribe over the mountain wants to kill us, take our
> women and our land!...let's get them first!")....but social
> evolution can at least teach us that an approach like that is
> (usually) wrong, and we can, in the immortal words of Rodney King,
> "all just get along."
No, I still have a big problem with this, especially because you're
equating xenophobia with racism.

Robert Bork was lynched like Thomas was, but Bork was white. George
Bush was treated worse than Obama is being treated, and Bush is white.
If you want to say that the Democrats who mocked Bush's Texas accent
and Texas hat, or who called him an illegitimate president, in 2001
were being racists, I'd call that a stretch.

There are a few racists around, just as there are a few bank
robbers around, but I see racism as a tiny fraction of what
you see.

A related point is that if Obama were white, and there were
a similar issue, then there would still have been a "birther"
controversy. It had to do with politics, not with race.

John

JR

Re: 28-Apr-11 News-Palestinian factions announce reconciliat

Post by JR »

Sigh…. I suppose I deserve this for wading into a controversial subject, normally I shy away from those.
It's not controversial. The responsible authorities in the State of Hawaii, custodians of the records, have made clear statements. If you want to call that into question, burden's on you.
As for extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof – Bah. The burden of proof is on President Obama, it always has been.
Hey, you're the one saying the Governor of Hawaii and the President of the United States are liars. Prove it. They've produced plenty of documentation, sufficient for any legal purpose, as much as i've ever provided for anything. The birth certificate in my safe deposit box is on a 4x6 index card. I have no idea what's on my 'long-form' birth certificate, what it looks like, or where it is, if anywhere. Nor has anyone ever asked me to provide it - if it exists, which it may not.

By the way, I noticed today that the Earth appears to be flat. How do I know that all those astronomers and geographers aren't lying about this so-called 'round Earth' stuff? They're all in cahoots, you know. And this supposed theory - let's be honest and call it high-brow academic nonsense - about the planets revolving around the sun? Don't even get me started.

JR

Re: 28-Apr-11 News-Palestinian factions announce reconciliat

Post by JR »

JR wrote:
> Well, I'm a Democrat, and I never heard of that movie. What did it
> gross? Who was the hero?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0853096/
Gee whiz, John, good gravy. Per imdb:

Budget:$2,000,000 (estimated) - in other words, no backing
Gross:$657,256 (Worldwide) - in other words, no one watched it
Full cast and crew - no one you ever heard of
Release Date:21 December 2006 (South Korea) - those Democrats are so crafty and sly!
A Very Good Movie-And It Is Not Anti-Bush or Anti-American - headline of first and only review on imdb website

Really, John, that's a joke, and not a funny one. Wait, I take it back. It is funny. Or at least laughable. Or maybe just embarrassing.

John
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Re: 28-Apr-11 News-Palestinian factions announce reconciliat

Post by John »

JR wrote: > Really, John, that's a joke, and not a funny one. Wait, I take it
> back. It is funny. Or at least laughable. Or maybe just
> embarrassing.
Oh really? And exactly how jovial would you be if somebody
distributed a movie specifically depicting the assassination of Barack
Obama? How laughable would that be?

John

JR

Re: 28-Apr-11 News-Palestinian factions announce reconciliat

Post by JR »

Sorry I wasn't clear. It's your claim that "Democrats . . . even released a movie, "The Death of a President (2006)," that described Bush's assassination" that's laughable. Or maybe just embarrassing.

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