What do you think is the root cause of human problems?

You can choose more than one, but try to choose one or two; what is really the root cause underlying the others? Not just things that are wrong, but what is the one cause that allows the others to happen too?

I won't vote myself until I have revealed my answer on the other thread.

The maximum number of possible answers allowed is 10. I combined some related ideas, but you can post other ideas in the thread.

For example, I didn't have room for the libertarian's malady: big government, socialism, bureaucracy, etc. Thread author's choice, I guess.

I picked:



greed, the corrupting power of money
unmindfulness, restless thoughts and passions
superstition, not enough reason and science

I chose *greed*, the corrupting power of money.

Reason: It has been the ruin of many an empire. It appears that we as humans have a tendency to be hoarders. You would think that we would have evolved by now.

Gratitude for what one has might be a remedy. Also, knowing the difference between wants and needs.

Why isn't population rise and decline isn't on here?

I went with egotism, pride, selfishness, arrogance because the others are effects rather than causes: even greed. We now live in bubbles that are designed to contain us, entertain us and generally neuter us as citizens. The results are what you would expect.

Solution: we need to get out more.

I chose:
poor esthetics and imagination, cultural decline- people not wanting to create new things.


greed, the corrupting power of money - The number 1 problem imo: The elite abd their greed and people's greed in general. Know wonder why were running out of resoures

violent communication, lack of civility, loneliness- people going on their I-pods sort of thing. No honesty in today's society.

automation, technology, pollution - see above

rebellion against traditional culture/family values
- While I think the Awakening was needed, a lot of the "new" values imo, changed society for the worst.

egotism, pride, selfishness, arrogance- People are too cocky to wake up to the realities of the world.

Originally Posted by Felix5

Why isn't population rise and decline isn't on here?

It is now

Maybe you could group it in the general category of technology and pollution, especially if "technology" includes things like medicine and sanitation. We have become a threat to ourselves and the world because we have become so successful. We are edging out a lot of other species because humans crowd out their habitat.

I chose "egotism, pride, selfishness, arrogance". While all of the above contribute to the problems of today's world (and yesterday's world, for that matter), these three appear to be at the root of all else.

If people weren't so arrogant, proud and selfish/egotistical, they wouldn't hoard money as a way of keeping score ("He who dies with the most toys wins")... and it really would trickle down from the not-then-quite-as rich to everyone else. People would not commit violent crimes against their neighbors and strangers alike. And there would have been no rebellion against family values, and turning against God, in the ongoing pursuit of "WOW!!!".

This was one of the better, more thoughtful polls I've seen in awhile.

None of the above. The root cause of human problems is that we live in circumstances to which our instincts do not suit us, and that those circumstances have also changed radically away from those of early civilization to which we had made a basic accommodation, and we have not discovered the way to create a workable, sustainable high-technology civilization.

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

None of the above. The root cause of human problems is that we live in circumstances to which our instincts do not suit us, and that those circumstances have also changed radically away from those of early civilization to which we had made a basic accommodation, and we have not discovered the way to create a workable, sustainable high-technology civilization.

In a general sense, that fits under "technology."

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

None of the above. The root cause of human problems is that we live in circumstances to which our instincts do not suit us, and that those circumstances have also changed radically away from those of early civilization to which we had made a basic accommodation, and we have not discovered the way to create a workable, sustainable high-technology civilization.

I agree with Brian. (I know: shocker! ). Our technology has outstripped our moral evolution.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

In a general sense, that fits under "technology."

No, because that would require a Luddite recommendation, which I am not making.

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

None of the above. The root cause of human problems is that we live in circumstances to which our instincts do not suit us, and that those circumstances have also changed radically away from those of early civilization to which we had made a basic accommodation, and we have not discovered the way to create a workable, sustainable high-technology civilization.

Question: Why do you think some of us evolve into a more compassionate and generous human beings? I think of those like Gandhi, MLK Jr.,and so many others who seem to have evolved beyond the group think of retaliation, greed and other vices that cause so various problems in this world. Not that they were perfect, just much more willing to see beyond themselves and work for the common good.

I think of people like those who travel around the country in the organization *The Journey of Hope.* They all lost loved ones to various acts of violence. Some are relatives of the victims in the Oklahoma bombing. Yet they were able to forgive and move on with their lives.

They were, it seems to me, to go way beyond the group think of revenge and hate. I suppose you would say that they have been able to rise above the insatiable and revengeful ego.

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

No, because that would require a Luddite recommendation, which I am not making.

No, it just says "technology, automation, pollution" is/are the root causes of our problems, which is what you are saying (the need to adapt to new technology). So, tech changes are a "problem." Solutions? That's another thread.

But, I can't add you and Felix to the total vote. Well, Child of Soc. either, who didn't vote. That's really 5 for tech.

I would have picked ethical double standards -- soft ethical standards for some that include the right to lord it over others but harsh ones for the powerless. Such is a foundation of ruin and rebellion.

"Greed" and related vices, especially among our economic and bureaucratic elites; trickle-down economics that keep mandating greater sacrifices from the powerless on behalf of people who can treat everyone else badly; and "egotism, pride, selfishness, arrogance" that appear as destructive manifestations of a cruel and destructive economic order combine as the signature of contemporary depravity in America. These can and will bring us ruin and will put us at risk as a nation until they abate.

The profit motive (so long as it gets people to serve humanity better) and the work ethic are all to the good; without those nobody would ever invest in a coal mine and nobody would ever work in one unless at gunpoint. But when it serves only to enrich an entrenched elite through the oppression of workers and the elimination of competition it is a way in which to reward people for exercising economic power to the detriment of the rest of humanity. Free markets? We do not have a free-market economy. Much of it seems directed at ensuring that the "right people" get whatever they want.

We've been brain washed to think that "MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL" so it's not surprising to me that so many would choose that example. My mind immediately thought of 'greed' based on the way the question was worded. However, I think violent intent inflicts more damage on a society.

Eric, the category you listed was not just "technology," it was "automation, technology, pollution." Pollution is an actual problem that needs to be solved. Automation and technology are not problems; we have problems associated with them that are more like growing pains. Potentially, automation and high technology are enormous boons. Potentially, pollution isn't a boon to anyone. Lumping it together with automation and technology as if they were intrinsically connected shows an anti-technology bias, a desire to go back to a simpler time when we lacked the numbers and power to seriously pollute the planet.

Saying that automation and technology are the root of our problems would be like observing an early agrarian civilization, and the emergence of slavery, patriarchy, and class inequality, and saying that the problem was farming.

This is why putting me into that category is not correct.

Originally Posted by Deb C

Question: Why do you think some of us evolve into a more compassionate and generous human beings?

I see that as simply the product of the normal variation in human behavior. Take any measure of human behavior, and some people are going to do more of it than others. Some are more compassionate and generous than others just as some are more violent, more industrious, more creative, etc.

I suppose if we could identify exactly the factors that lead to this behavioral distinction we could create a situation in which more people were like Gandhi. But I don't know what those factors might be. You can point to the fact that most of these people were deeply spiritual, but that simply begs the question; we also don't know what goes into making some people more spiritual than others (it certainly isn't religious belief, for example).

Originally Posted by Child of Socrates

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

None of the above. The root cause of human problems is that we live in circumstances to which our instincts do not suit us, and that those circumstances have also changed radically away from those of early civilization to which we had made a basic accommodation, and we have not discovered the way to create a workable, sustainable high-technology civilization.

I agree with Brian. (I know: shocker! ). Our technology has outstripped our moral evolution.

I'm a little late replying, but the points are well made. We're wired to do all the wrong things. If we were a bit less arrogant and egocentric, we might recongize our limitations, and do something about it. See me holding my breath.

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

Eric, the category you listed was not just "technology," it was "automation, technology, pollution." Pollution is an actual problem that needs to be solved. Automation and technology are not problems; we have problems associated with them that are more like growing pains. Potentially, automation and high technology are enormous boons. Potentially, pollution isn't a boon to anyone. Lumping it together with automation and technology as if they were intrinsically connected shows an anti-technology bias, a desire to go back to a simpler time when we lacked the numbers and power to seriously pollute the planet.

Saying that automation and technology are the root of our problems would be like observing an early agrarian civilization, and the emergence of slavery, patriarchy, and class inequality, and saying that the problem was farming.

This is why putting me into that category is not correct.

OK. And yes, of course we disagree somewhat; I don't think farming can be closely connected to patriarchy, slavery and inequality, though they are historically related-- while technology is definitely a cause of pollution, among other things (and it is the cause of the fact that we have "high numbers and power"); but it can be modified (I think), so that at least it pollutes a lot less. And as you say, we have problems associated with it like growing pains. If I had said that, you might possibly have agreed with that choice; but of course I can't fit all those words on the poll.

I would not choose that one as the root cause, even though environmentalism is a key interest of mine (that is, of me, Eric the Green). No-one has hazarded a guess on what my choice might be; it might surprise people.

Originally Posted by MillerX

We've been brain washed to think that "MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL" so it's not surprising to me that so many would choose that example. My mind immediately thought of 'greed' based on the way the question was worded. However, I think violent intent inflicts more damage on a society.

Money is not the root of all evil. It is the means by which people choose what they do with what they want -- which implies the expression of the self (even if the self is brainwashed by advertising).

Give a huge amount of money to a person with problems entirely the result of gross need, and that person will find money largely a cure for those needs. Money can buy treatment for a toothache, replace a sagging mattress, or get car repairs that a person can't do himself. Give huge amounts of money to a person with a huge pathology not related to need and that person will likely use that money for pathological purposes. Cocaine and child porn are prime examples.

With some spending one might have a variety of mixtures of good and vileness. Some plutocrat might decide that support for a fascist cause might be a boon for America -- that is, the part of America that matters in his view. Such reflects not so much the vileness of money but instead the perverse values that someone has.

Is buying a bunch of recordings of country music an expression of having good traditional values and buying classical music effete and pretentious -- or is the country music an expression of crass vulgarity while the purchase of classical music evidence of intellectual maturity? I've heard both. Some people are going to spend most of their lifetime savings on the most elaborate funeral possible complete with the most luxuriant casket available... and some would rather spend a similar amount to send their kids to college. If you want to find out what someone is really like, then ask him what he would do with $100K that must be spent (charity, rescue of relatives or sending them off to college, investment, savings, and paying off bills is prohibited in the discussion).

Some people would spend the money on an RV and travel all over America -- and they would appreciate the RV because it means that they never have to use an unfamiliar toilet and never miss Wheel of Fortune. Some might prefer to do foreign travel that includes a night's stay at an austere monastery or convent and plenty of camping with the assumption that if you are in Italy the last thing that you are interested in is how La Ruota Della Fortuna compares to the American version.

It is not up to our educational system to establish "taste". If anything we give advertisers a free hand. An attempt to engineer a hostile takeover of the Constitutional order is a huge moral issue -- just as is whether it is acceptable to deal narcotics.

.....

The pathology of 'money' in America is largely that economic inequality is so pointlessly severe that it can only ensure great disparities of excess and deprivation.

Mankind's emotions and other basic drives evolved to handle a territorial hunter gatherer society. We are dealing with an entirely different environment. Eric's choices above are only symptoms of man's ability to change his environment.

Originally Posted by B Butler

Mankind's emotions and other basic drives evolved to handle a territorial hunter gatherer society. We are dealing with an entirely different environment. Eric's choices above are only symptoms of man's ability to change his environment.

Sounds like yet another unacknowledged vote for "technology." It is interesting that I can group all of the suggestions beyond the 10 choices I mentioned in the poll under that category, while in the poll itself it has the fewest votes. People just don't want to admit, even though they know it, that what our society worships above anything else might actually be among the root causes of our problems. Yet it was only a few decades ago that it was outspoken, common knowledge among intelligent, concerned people and free spirits that technology was a major dilemma. They recognized how dehumanizing it was, how mechanization had caused alienation and regimentation, as well as how it turned our countryside into asphalt and ticky-tacky, our cities into junk, and our culture into commerce. What huge poverty it created, along with prosperity for those few who controlled it. They saw how so many of our inventions threatened our whole existence, not only because of pollution and climate change, but through vastly increasing our power to kill and enslave people. Computers, which have evolved since then into a means of instant communication and information for average folks, seemed then to be turning us into objects and numbers. We are still so overly impressed with them that we fail to see they really don't change our society much at all.

There is also a suspicion held by some prophets and philosophers that our bold attempts to impose our will and ideals on the world are doomed to failure, and every such attempt is bound to have side effects worse than the benefits it brings. Can we do such things as save our planet from pollution with new green energy sources? Can it really bring us the lasting prosperity and leisure it promises? Can we adjust to the continual changes it causes in our economic system? Can our Earth really support all we are asking of her? Can we use the new media to create great art, as unrecognized people like David Parsons have done; or will it continue to be controlled by people with no cultural aspirations? I am optimistic, since we really need to do these things, but I'm not sure. We may end up having almost to return to Nature, which some people think would be for the best.

What Bob, Brian and Child of Socrates have pointed out, is that our technological abilities have outstripped our ability to adapt to them. It was pointed out that we have gained great technical powers, but not social, spiritual or emotional abilities on the same scale. We can provide for our material needs, but we still don't know very well how to get along with each other, or control our more primitive urges. Our connection with divine guidance and creative imagination has decreased in our more-convenient world compared to the great civilizations of the past, while materialist denial of the spiritual has continued to spread in spite of powerful new age spiritual awakenings and often-authoritarian, fanatical religious counter-awakenings. And we have yet to seriously begin a process of human transformation, even though some articulate people have called us to the adventure these last 45 years. That means we are not only still at the mercy of runaway technology and mechanization, but (as the votes show) we fail to turn our technical knowledge to our advantage, because it is still directed by money and greed-- which is in turn justified by trickle-down free-market economics that blocks and stymies the political support for all the new technologies and social programs that we need.

I enjoy all the responses, and I'll write my answer soon (this isn't it).

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Sounds like yet another unacknowledged vote for "technology." It is interesting that I can group all of the suggestions beyond the 10 choices I mentioned in the poll under that category, while in the poll itself it has the fewest votes. People just don't want to admit, even though they know it, that what our society worships above anything else might actually be among the root causes of our problems. Yet it was only a few decades ago that it was outspoken, common knowledge among intelligent, concerned people and free spirits that technology was a major dilemma. They recognized how dehumanizing it was, how mechanization had caused alienation and regimentation, as well as how it turned our countryside into asphalt and ticky-tacky, our cities into junk, and our culture into commerce. What huge poverty it created, along with prosperity for those few who controlled it. They saw how so many of our inventions threatened our whole existence, not only because of pollution and climate change, but through vastly increasing our power to kill and enslave people. Computers, which have evolved since then into a means of instant communication and information for average folks, seemed then to be turning us into objects and numbers. We are still so overly impressed with them that we fail to see they really don't change our society much at all.

Same old argument used this time last saeculum

Metropolis
Brave New World

Just more evidence that Boomers are picking up where the Lost left off.

~Chas'88

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

What do you think is the root cause of human problems?

You can choose more than one, but try to choose one or two; what is really the root cause underlying the others? Not just things that are wrong, but what is the one cause that allows the others to happen too?

I won't vote myself until I have revealed my answer on the other thread.

The maximum number of possible answers allowed is 10. I combined some related ideas, but you can post other ideas in the thread.

For example, I didn't have room for the libertarian's malady: big government, socialism, bureaucracy, etc. Thread author's choice, I guess.

I don't understand the poll. How are you supposed to pick causes for human problems that are undefined?

However, if you want a plausible "root cause" for "materialism", destruction of the natural environment and tapping the world's resources faster than they rejuvenate, look no further than to biology. Human males try to find mates. The way they do this is by impressing the females with various trinkets, demeanor as well as power over other males, all of which is translated into social status or mating value. Females then choose the males with the highest mating value possible in the local social niche, which mostly means the males with the biggest ecological footprint. For example, a guy with resources like a house and a car, providing useful nesting grounds as well as means for her to go "shopping", will likely also attract a female, while a guy who for any reason flunked the project of life and now sleeps under bridges, probably will not. Basic stuff really. Thereby is ensured that competitive human traits survive into the next generation, creating a feedback loop of ecologically unsustainable and destructive behaviors.

Nature lacks both morals as well as foresight. That's just the way it is.