Originally Posted by Eric the Green

One thing that amazes me, is how little people listen to each other; how hard it is to get something across.

You truly have the gift of irony in saying this given how little you appear to listen to anyone.

Originally Posted by Galen

You truly have the gift of irony in saying this given how little you appear to listen to anyone.

Back atcha! I guess we both prove the truth of my statement!

Originally Posted by ASB65

Oh Eric, really. How often do you really listen to people from the right and consider their views in a completely unbiased and objective way? I'm sorry if this sounds snotty, but I think this is bit of the pot calling the kettle black.

I wasn't saying other people don't listen, and I do. That was not my statement. My pot is probably as black as anyone's, but I doubt it's any blacker. What I notice is how little anyone's views are changed by virtue of arguments, facts or ideas presented by anyone. It is a rather endemic condition. You could put it under communication.

I was going to say more, but I will just leave it at that. I do not want to discuss personal behavior of myself or others on this site, or make or respond to accusations. Someone can PM me if they want.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

What I notice is how little anyone's views are changed by virtue of arguments, facts or ideas presented by anyone.

That's precisely what I've said on several occasions over the past few years. I've yet to see anyone truly change someone's else mind. People see things through their own lens and form their own opinions through their own personal experiences or the environment in which they live in. Especially once they get to a certain age. When these political or cultural arguments erupt on the forum no one is ever suddenly enlightened by someone's else "brilliant" argument. Then they just devolve into bitter arguments and often name calling or unfair accusations. So what's the point in arguing? Unless, of course, you just get off on arguing or belittling people for the hell of it. And with those people, I just choose not to engage with them.

Originally Posted by summer in the fall

People *hear* what they are in range to listen to.

Cheers.

Ay, there's the rub.

Irony, of such is life made.

Oddly enough those who might be characterized as most greedy are those living in estates far away from anyone else.

....That's COMPLETE nonsense. Do you see how many minivans and SUVs are on America's highways today? Giant vehicles that would kill anyone in a normal car, but there's no regard for anyone else on the road. That is complete personal selfishness from average American people. And that's just one example.

Selfishness and hoarding permeates from average American homes.

There is an entire culture of selfishness.

My pot is probably as black as anyone's, but I doubt it's any blacker.

So you admit that you're a hypocrite...

How so????

The slogan for skittles: "Taste the rainbow."

Cheers.

Originally Posted by ASB65

That's precisely what I've said on several occasions over the past few years. I've yet to see anyone truly change someone's else mind. People see things through their own lens and form their own opinions through their own personal experiences or the environment in which they live in. Especially once they get to a certain age. When these political or cultural arguments erupt on the forum no one is ever suddenly enlightened by someone's else "brilliant" argument. Then they just devolve into bitter arguments and often name calling or unfair accusations. So what's the point in arguing? Unless, of course, you just get off on arguing or belittling people for the hell of it. And with those people, I just choose not to engage with them.

In general I agree. However, a minor quibble -- although the specifics fail me (except for the most recent example), folks here and elsewhere on the net have sometimes changed my mind and have often modified it.

Inequality.

How about "None of the Above;" specifically, population growth that is outrunning resources.

greed definitely

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Thanks for another great rainbow song, summer.

Of course, we all have a rainbow inside, and it's the 7 chakras.

It's this song by Angela Bofill, Rainbow Inside My Heart.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

What do you think is the root cause of human problems?

You can choose more than one, but try to choose one or two; what is really the root cause underlying the others? Not just things that are wrong, but what is the one cause that allows the others to happen too?

I won't vote myself until I have revealed my answer on the other thread.

The maximum number of possible answers allowed is 10. I combined some related ideas, but you can post other ideas in the thread.

For example, I didn't have room for the libertarian's malady: big government, socialism, bureaucracy, etc. Thread author's choice, I guess.

For me it was a toss up of greed or egotism/selfishness. I decided on egotism as it explains politics as it is today and it included selfishness which can include greed. It destroys nations, warps minds, kills many and destroys the planet. I think I chose the right one.

The most catastrophic cause of the human problem remains the same fundamental evil: cruelty or sadism, whence comes no compensating virtue. That was not mentioned, but it seems so obvious that few think about it unless it becomes the dominant reality in life. Reckless disregard of the legitimate interests of others is similarly harmful.

Greed and envy in the form of the acquisitive desire at the least encourage people to innovate, invest, and take horrible (but necessary) jobs. A steelworker or a coal miner may make bigger contributions to the prosperity of us all than might some starry-eyed idealist. Of course greed by people who stop at nothing hurtful for their gain and indulgence can result only in great harm. Envy by people lacking the legitimate means or even viable prospects for getting those means of doing as well as someone else is irrational and futile.

Egotism, pride (in the old meaning of hubris instead of the more modern and modest sense of legitimate self-esteem), selfishness, and arrogance all debase whatever one gets. Comparatively few people have a lack of self-esteem, and such usually results from being in a situation of oppression, exploitation, or humiliation. People full of themselves (like the typical hero of Ayn Rand) can succeed only by having overwhelming wealth or bureaucratic power at their disposal. Such people do not win friends -- and they rub people the wrong way.

Superstition and bigotry usually suggest cognitive weaknesses or inadequate education. Mere stupidity is an indelible trait that we must work around.

I picked

Greed/corrupting power of money
Trickle-down economics/Market system

Both of which I would argue would fall under just "Capitalism"

Also Egotism, Pride, Selfishness (again capitalism--which is selfishness turned into an economic system), arrogance.

Essentially all of that can be boiled down to capitalism. Then again, what would you expect a Marxist-Leninist revolution committed to the destruction of the capitalist order to say?

From past experience, I was under the impression it was either:

A. Generation X

B. me, as you have so often implied I am the embodiment of all that is unholy evil incarnate in this world.

(waits with popcorn in hand....)

Originally Posted by M Acorne

The Proud
The Envious
The Wrathful
The Slothful (see Kathleen Norris "Acedia"
The Avericious and Prodigal
The Gluttonous
The Lustful

poll answers

greed, the corrupting power of money
trickle-down economics, the market system
egotism, pride, selfishness, arrogance
superstition, not enough reason and science

1. Pride leads the procession because it blinds one from the other 6.

2.greed, the corrupting power of money,Trickle-down economics, the market system
envy,avaricious,gluttony,and lust for more, more, more.

3. egotism, pride, selfishness, arrogance
Pride,avarice, gluttony,lust,and sloth. Sometime people become wrathful in pursuit of selfishness.

4.superstition, not enough reason and science
Pride and wrath.

Selfishness, greed, pride, egotism are the most common root causes cited on this survey. I explain it by referring to the second noble truth; that we have cravings that take possession of us, and the first of those is self-preservation. When magnified in human beings, it becomes defensive, and as a craving it takes away our consciousness and freedom. Focused on defending ourselves, and dominated by our cravings (which include the mental craving to be right, to rehearse language, to worry about the future, and so on, in our mind chatter) we do not see the needs of others, and that our real self is the soul, which grows through creating and giving rather than merely protecting its own interest.

Now, what was that about popcorn, tara?

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Selfishness, greed, pride, egotism are the most common root causes cited on this survey. I explain it by referring to the second noble truth; that we have cravings that take possession of us, and the first of those is self-preservation. When magnified in human beings, it becomes defensive, and as a craving it takes away our consciousness and freedom. Focused on defending ourselves, and dominated by our cravings (which include the mental craving to be right, to rehearse language, to worry about the future, and so on, in our mind chatter) we do not see the needs of others, and that our real self is the soul, which grows through creating and giving rather than merely protecting its own interest.

Now, what was that about popcorn, tara?

Wonderful answer. Want some popcorn? Sharing is caring after all!

Bureaucracy and closed mindedness. Also leaders being too idle to actually do something.

The Seven Deadly Sins -- most are still deadly. Even if they are no longer deadly they certainly debase life.

Pride (in the medieval sense of haughtiness and arrogant hubris) allows people to hurt others without recognizing the harm done. Pride in an honorable job well done? Harmless and necessary.

Envy might cause people to do something to improve their lives without hurting others. But that is motivation. The sickest envy is by people who, already rich, want to take what little the poor still have.

Wrath should leave no doubt of its destructive potential.

Sloth either means laziness (a wasted life) or, in more of a menace, the desire for easy gain at others' expense. Intellectual laziness may have even worse consequences (superstition, gullibility, propaganda).

Avarice and Prodigality are obverse and reverse of the same counterfeit coin of life. The miser wastes life on acquisition for its own sake; the prodigal ends up broke for wasting resources and usually ends up draining others in rescues.

Gluttony shows at the least a lack of imagination in how to live. Can't people think of something other than to stuff themselves while sitting in front of a TV or a computer monitor? In medieval and earlier times, the glutton overate and others went hungry. Today the glutton typically has a short and unpleasant life.

Lust, the desire for sex without obvious love, can lead to rape and sexual harassment even if it leaves no waif behind.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

The Seven Deadly Sins -- most are still deadly. Even if they are no longer deadly they certainly debase life.

Pride (in the medieval sense of haughtiness and arrogant hubris) allows people to hurt others without recognizing the harm done. Pride in an honorable job well done? Harmless and necessary.

Envy might cause people to do something to improve their lives without hurting others. But that is motivation. The sickest envy is by people who, already rich, want to take what little the poor still have.

Wrath should leave no doubt of its destructive potential.

Sloth either means laziness (a wasted life) or, in more of a menace, the desire for easy gain at others' expense. Intellectual laziness may have even worse consequences (superstition, gullibility, propaganda).

Avarice and Prodigality are obverse and reverse of the same counterfeit coin of life. The miser wastes life on acquisition for its own sake; the prodigal ends up broke for wasting resources and usually ends up draining others in rescues.

Gluttony shows at the least a lack of imagination in how to live. Can't people think of something other than to stuff themselves while sitting in front of a TV or a computer monitor? In medieval and earlier times, the glutton overate and others went hungry. Today the glutton typically has a short and unpleasant life.

Lust, the desire for sex without obvious love, can lead to rape and sexual harassment even if it leaves no waif behind.

I guess we should have a poll asking which one of these we each suffer most from. Assuming we would answer honestly, of course.

Pride, as you describe its harm, amounts to self-deception. We can't see our own faults, because that disturbs our inflated self-concept; what we'd like to think we are. So it goeth before a fall when reality knocks. But if we know our own magnificence, and that it comes from our higher self which we all have, we have no need for false pride, or to hurt others by putting them down. When we can put ourselves in others' shoes, then we can follow the golden rule instead of the sin of pride.

Envy, I have for other things besides money. Like you say, it's motivating, provided it does not prompt you to obstruct or hurt others in your attempt to get what you want. It also blinds you to what you already have, which from the enlightened or esoteric perspective, means you are blind to the fact that what you want is already within you.

Wrath or anger comes to us through frustration and insecurity; it is fear acted out. Sometimes it can get you off your duff.

Sloth or laziness often happens because we think we can't succeed, so we give up or procrastinate. Or we have been drained of energy because we are clinging to life or distracted by temptations.

Avarice or greed is also a form of fear and insecurity. We think we don't have enough, so we have to have more, and cling to it. And if we are deceived that life is material, we naturally want more things. If we know that life is spiritual, then we want soul development instead.

Gluttony is one of my favorite sins to indulge in. Fortunately, it doesn't go TOO far in my case. It is often a substitute for real fulfillment, which might require us to face fear, or to do work. We fill ourselves with food when our life seems otherwise empty, especially empty of love. But relationships are difficult, so we settle for a stimulation and contact that is easier.

Lust is a kind of craving, and a kind of envy. Not for money, but for beauty in the flesh. Like gluttony, we are not convinced that physical beauty can come easily to us, so we over-compensate. We might see beauty in others, but not recognize that we already have it in ourselves. In moderation, like envy, it is motivating. It's often frowned on a lot (including by some folks here?), as well as promoted and used for commerce a lot.

The Enneagram is another contemporary, esoteric version, with 9 sins instead of 7.