As a regular You Tube watcher and poster, who prefers to listen to older stuff, I see countless negative references to Justin Bieber of the sort like "Justin Bieber ain't got nothing on (so and so old artist)". I've been planning to sample some of his songs just to see what the fuss is about. Most of the more recent songs people link or refer me to here (mostly pop or heavy metal stuff), when I listen, I don't like-- sorry to say. I'd like to like them, but they just don't have much going on, for me anyway. Sometimes a more recent (meaning 1980s-plus) song really appeals to me though, like the ones Summer in the Fall posted about rainbows. Rainbow Inside my Heart by Angela Bofill is good, though it only has 2000-plus views,* no better than one of my own organ performances I posted. Yet Angela's other songs, which get hundreds of thousands of views, don't impress me even a little bit. Lady Gaga is pretty good; she writes her own songs and they have musical and lyrical content. So what about this Justin Bieber guy, a young teenage heartthrob whom the grammy academy has seen fit to honor with awards nominations?

Amazing, but I like him. No, he's not a favorite of mine,* but he seems to be amazingly talented. His own you tube channel has 2 billion views, and he is one of the best-selling artists of our time (that doesn't mean much necessarily in terms of quality). He also rose to prominence through you tube, which is one reason he is so commented on there. In fact, he set a record for most dislikes for a video! They don't like him, it is said (wikipedia) because he looks younger than his age and appeals to teenage girls. Well, duh. His singing style at times is not much different from the usual imitation soul style I hear so often, especially from girl singers. But it is also pretty well done. And he is a song-writer too, a very good one for someone his age. Among the songs of his I liked that I sampled were Somebody to Love, Pray and Never Say Never. I like the music, and the lyrics say a lot. Not going to be my favorite songs, but better than a lot of what I hear today. One I don't like is his latest, Boyfriend, which is little more than rap with a soft beat.

*edit: old video is gone; new one has fewer views than that, as of Jan.2013

*edit, not as of this post; he is now

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

One I don't like is his latest, Boyfriend, which is little more than rap with a soft beat.

It's lame because it's a Justin Timberlake/ Pharell rip off and way too early to start creating songs with a "2000s feel."

I think his music is some of the most boring pop music I've ever heard in my entire life. His voice is equally as bland and generic. How can anyone "love" this kid? He had connections in the industry, he wanted to be a singer, and thus became one. Little girls think he's cute, he's a fad, but not much else. His parents, the music industry, and musicians use him opportunistically. I actually feel a bit sorry for him in a way...then I remember the fact that he's filthy flipping rich and go back to not caring either way.

I don't understand how anyone could have any reaction to this kid whether it be positive or negative. My opinion is, who cares about this kid?

Originally Posted by Felix5

I think his music is some of the most boring pop music I've ever heard in my entire life. His voice is equally as bland and generic.

It's hard to consider most of the pop music of today any differently.

How can anyone "love" this kid? He had connections in the industry, he wanted to be a singer, and thus became one.

The story posted on wikipedia is that a promoter or producer of some kind found his videos on you tube, and that was his start. Is that incorrect?

Eric like JUSTIN BIEBER?

*falls over laughing*

Originally Posted by Odin

Eric like JUSTIN BIEBER?

*falls over laughing*

I know!!!!

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Do you like Justin Bieber?

No. I'll stick to music from people who have actually experienced things.

j.p.

Originally Posted by millennialX

I know!!!!

You should fall over laughing!

I'm especially enjoying listening to "Pray" .

Will I still like it a month or 6 months from now? Pray tell....

EDIT: It's over 6 months from now; now you know the answer!

No, lol. He also looks like a girl...

Originally Posted by 92man

No, lol. He also looks like a girl...

The common joke is that he hasn't gone through puberty yet, LOL!

That is more like it.

It is a little strange that he is such a heartthrob for young girls, when he isn't even especially good looking. Not bad by any means, but he's sure no hunk. And his singing voice is no better than other singers. But he does have talent, dances very well, and writes some good songs. That last one deserves some respect in my book. Not many people today are writing good songs, especially if they are 16 years old.

There is an astrological component there, for sure.

Bieber haters, are they just a bit jealous of his success???

There are some very talented people his age. Here's another one, although in a totally unrelated field (mine).
http://youtu.be/Mi-nNkVDmZ0
(and he's a cute non-hunk too )

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

That is more like it.

It is a little strange that he is such a heartthrob for young girls, when he isn't even especially good looking.

Maybe Millie girls just want to hug him. I use to (and I mean use to...because his star is fading) hear them say "awe" whenever he came on.

Also what made Jonesers dig a young Michael Jackson, with the Jackson 5? I know my mom preferred Jermaine jackson,

Eric, I think it's fine that you like Justin Bieber. Everyone is entitled to their own musical opinions. My older son never liked him, but then he generally has never liked any pop music. My younger son loved Justin Bieber for a while and he even had a poster of him in his room. But then his older brother teased him so much about it that he took it down and now he says he doesn't like Justin Bieber anymore. (But truth be told, since my younger son does tend to like pop music more than other kinds of music, he probably secretly still does like Bieber.)

And BTW, my 40 something, bank executive brother, really likes Lady Gaga and Katy Perry. So these pop stars don't necessarily only appeal to just teenage girls.

I don't know if Bieber's popularity will last; it's too early to say he's "fading." I wonder if many of those who don't like him, are more interested in knocking him because he's small and young for his age, and because of who likes him, than because of his music. Personally I could care less about those things; the only thing I'm interested in is his music.

It is interesting to compare Bieber to Michael Jackson or other child or teenage rockers. I may change my mind, but so far I think I like Bieber a little better than Jackson even at the height of his solo career. That bridge section near the end of "Pray" @ 2:00 is really beautiful. The guy I really despised in the old days was Donny Osmond.

I like this one too, and it gets better as it goes along.

I am surprised!

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

I don't know if Bieber's popularity will last; it's too early to say he's "fading." I wonder if many of those who don't like him, are more interested in knocking him because he's small and young for his age, and because of who likes him, than because of his music. Personally I could care less about those things; the only thing I'm interested in is his music.

It is interesting to compare Bieber to Michael Jackson or other child or teenage rockers. I may change my mind, but so far I think I like Bieber a little better than Jackson even at the height of his solo career. That bridge section near the end of "Pray" @ 2:00 is really beautiful. The guy I really despised in the old days was Donny Osmond.

I would say that the way the teenage boys tend to look at Justin Bieber is probably pretty similar to the way you looked at Donny Osmond or David Cassidy. But then Justin Bieber has millions and can probably get just about any girl he wants. Which is more than I can say for the average teenage boy who makes fun of him.

Originally Posted by ASB65

I would say that the way the teenage boys tend to look at Justin Bieber is probably pretty similar to the way you looked at Donny Osmond or David Cassidy. But then Justin Bieber has millions and can probably get just about any girl he wants. Which is more than I can say for the average teenage boy who makes fun of him.

Yes, except of course my problem with Osmond was only his music.
I sure wouldn't mind being like Justin Bieber

That is funny about your sons and Bieber.

Good report and interview; covers all of these issues mentioned in this thread

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

As a regular You Tube watcher and poster, who prefers to listen to older stuff, I see countless negative references to Justin Bieber of the sort like "Justin Bieber ain't got nothing on (so and so old artist)". I've been planning to sample some of his songs just to see what the fuss is about. Most of the more recent songs people link or refer me to here (mostly pop or heavy metal stuff), when I listen, I don't like-- sorry to say. I'd like to like them, but they just don't have much going on, for me anyway. Sometimes a more recent (meaning 1980s-plus) song really appeals to me though, like the ones Summer in the Fall posted about rainbows. Rainbow Inside my Heart by Angela Bofill is good, though it only has 2000-plus views, no better than one of my own organ performances I posted. Yet Angela's other songs, which get hundreds of thousands of views, don't impress me even a little bit. Lady Gaga is pretty good; she writes her own songs and they have musical and lyrical content. So what about this Justin Bieber guy, a young teenage heartthrob whom the grammy academy has seen fit to honor with awards?

Amazing, but I like him. No, he's not a favorite of mine, but he seems to be amazingly talented. His own you tube channel has 2 billion views, and he is one of the best-selling artists of our time (that doesn't mean much necessarily in terms of quality). He also rose to prominence through you tube, which is one reason he is so commented on there. In fact, he set a record for most dislikes for a video! They don't like him, it is said (wikipedia) because he looks younger than his age and appeals to teenage girls. Well, duh. His singing style at times is not much different from the usual imitation soul style I hear so often, especially from girl singers. But it is also pretty well done. And he is a song-writer too, a very good one for someone his age. Among the songs of his I liked that I sampled were Somebody to Love, Pray and Never Say Never. I like the music, and the lyrics say a lot. Not going to be my favorite songs, but better than a lot of what I hear today. One I don't like is his latest, Boyfriend, which is little more than rap with a soft beat.

Rainbow Inside my Heart is not exactly a "recent" song. It's Awakening music...

But this Bieber song was on the waves a few ago.


The question of Bieber is that he represents a complete contradiction of our culture. From a gender standpoint, he is a perfect example of ambiguity within a genre of music that heralds hypermasculinity as the norm. The pass he gets is that he is not American which is generally where non-hypermasculine images not overtly driven by hip-hop come from. The fact that he is still so popular proves that he fills a vacuum almost assuredly being manufactured. For those aware of Asian pop, his effeminacy, not only raises no eyebrows, it's actually rather subdued.

Cheers.

I guess it might be no wonder that someone not aspiring to the "hypermasculine" (shall I say, among other things, redneck) American cultural ideal might appeal to me. I also like that one of his most popular songs (Never Say Never, title of his "autobiographical" film) has the same message as one of my favorite 60s songs, That's the Way it's gonna Be. So maybe he's not masculine, but still able to hang in there despite adversity. Oh, and rumor has it that this song will be mentioned as a Wheel of Fortune clue tonight. Another interesting thing; I was looking at one of his videos on You Tube, and in the comments section was a reply to a fan from Justin himself, "2 minutes ago" it said. Woah; that sorta thing didn't happen in my day! (But I did get to meet the singer of That's the Way it's Gonna Be, much later)

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

I don't know if Bieber's popularity will last; it's too early to say he's "fading." I wonder if many of those who don't like him, are more interested in knocking him because he's small and young for his age, and because of who likes him, than because of his music. Personally I could care less about those things; the only thing I'm interested in is his music.

Okay, I feel like you're talking to me.

So let's throw out fading and add...transitioning.... Maybe that's a better word. Also the last thing I want to do is knock someone for their musical taste because I hate that, along with criticizing the food someone else eats.

My personal beef actually is more with him borrowing from Justin Timberlake's sound, when I actually believe he has it in him to create his own thing. He's growing up now and look what happened to MJ when he started to branch out. I also suspect he's not like some kid that was ripped from the street and thrown on the musical conveyor belt belt. I think he has talent (I'm sure someone just fainted when I wrote that).

@Summer...you are right. I also find it interesting that young girls seem to go for the prettiest guys.

Originally Posted by millennialX

Okay, I feel like you're talking to me.

No, That was the summary of what was reported on wikipedia (except for the "fading" part; yeah that was you).
Over 2,400,000 dislikes on one video! Twice as many as likes. And yet this is the most watched you tube video ever so far, 727 million! (his first hit, "Baby," which I think is OK too). There are a lot of "Bieber haters" out there, but a helluva lot of beliebers.

I also suspect he's not like some kid that was ripped from the street and thrown on the musical conveyor belt belt. I think he has talent (I'm sure someone just fainted when I wrote that).

Oh-oh..... I'll catch the rocks.

One thing I'm not so sure I like about him, he said he believes Jesus died for his sins. Not a real intellectual I guess. But otherwise, pretty level headed for someone in his position. Even the last words on his "Pray" video are quite in line with my own spiritual views.

Originally Posted by Odin

The common joke is that he hasn't gone through puberty yet, LOL!

Yes, a case of redo from start error

And yup, Justin Bieber ain't got nothin' on Bon Jovi either.

1. Young gils? Check, though folks my age refer to them as "groupies".

2.
[quite=Eric the Green]
There is an astrological component there, for sure.
[/quote]
Perhaps.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green's website

"The baby boomers, part two," 1957-62 (Generation W-c) (Uranus in Leo, Neptune in Scorpio, Pluto in Virgo) This group was too young for the sixties and so are more conventional in their approach to life. They are talented investigators or analysts and provide many of the "yuppie" computer professionals. Most in this group are self-contained, shrewd, secretive, careful, tenacious, calculating and capable. They are more thoughtful, hesitant, reflective and unsure than the elder boomers, but often no less outgoing and exhibitionist (since Uranus is in Leo). In fact, many in this group have already made quite an impression in the show business world. Examples: Scott Baio, Matthew Broderick, Katie Couric, Tom Cruise, Michael J. Fox, Woody Harrelson, Michael Jackson, Madonna, Demi Moore, Eddie Murphy, Donny Osmond, Sean Penn, Prince, Tim Robbins.

Jon Bovi is an early 1962 cohort. FWIW. (I chose him since he's just a few months older than I, and the groupie factor would match Justin's.)

Tangent warning:

Originally Posted by astro.com

Neptune in Scorpio
This generation may be characterized by a love of the mysterious and strange. As these children grow older, the current interest in the occult and other such areas will probably continue, but with a rather different cast. There is a great danger that they will use these energies to gain power over others, which could create very dangerous psychological forces. On the other hand, there will also be more concern with individual regeneration. These people should become even more concerned with techniques of healing, both psychological and physical. They will have extreme ideas about personal morality, either extremely lax or extremely strict, but not usually moderate.

Geez, Eric's link thinks we're crackpots.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

One thing I'm not so sure I like about him, he said he believes Jesus died for his sins. Not a real intellectual I guess. .

... And no day is complete around here without a random jabbing at Christians. Right, because only atheists are intellectuals.

As far as the issue of "hypermasculine" I think you should clarify on this some because simply throwing out the word 'redneck' is at least a partial misnomer as you don't define your terminology (of course, just like Christians, it is socially acceptable to make fun of mostly lower-income white males - encouraged by society actually).

As far as Bieber is concerned I'll expand some on my thoughts from earlier. I'm not crazy about pop and never have been (except for New Wave from the 80s, but that's just a guilty pleasure for me - c'mon, Duran Duran is addictive, damnit!) really. This certainly doesn't mean anything is wrong with Bieber - he may be a fine singer for all I know, but what can a 16 year old kid sing about in life that he's truly experienced as being a kid? What can I take from his music to learn anything of value in sharing some type of common bond with me? I think they are honest questions. I don't care for rap at all either - but at least some of the rappers speak from personal experience which gives me a respect for them even if I'm not crazy about their music. It does give their voice weight though.

Personally, I think singers should stick with things they know about just as the best writers stick with things they know about from life.

j.p.

Bon Jovi is better looking, and no redneck either!
I'm not too familiar with his music, but until 2 days ago I knew zilch about Justin's.

Originally Posted by JDFP

... And no day is complete around here without a random jabbing at Christians. Right, because only atheists are intellectuals.

Well, not random, since I don't think it's a very logical doctrine, unless it's taken symbolically. It's very commonly taken as a dogmatic belief. Redneck is not about income, but one species of macho man here in the USA, though there are others. And redneck macho is OK too; except people might not think I would think so. It was more a self-deprecating bit of humor.

What can I take from his music to learn anything of value in sharing some type of common bond with me? I think they are honest questions. I don't care for rap at all either - but at least some of the rappers speak from personal experience which gives me a respect for them even if I'm not crazy about their music. It does give their voice weight though.

Personally, I think singers should stick with things they know about just as the best writers stick with things they know about from life.

j.p.

I don't think you should take anything from Justin if you don't want to. He himself makes a pointed reply however to just that question in the interview I posted. He thinks he has indeed been through a lot. Who am I to say no?

Originally Posted by JDFP

... And no day is complete around here without a random jabbing at Christians. Right, because only atheists are intellectuals.

Please, please don't contaminate this thread.

We have an active flamewar thread here.