Originally Posted by Felix5

I'm 4 foot, 11 and 3/4 inches female (with no hyper masculinity problems..) and I think he's the most boring "musician" (I mean what instrument does he play?) I've ever heard. Please...I've played piano since I was 6 and flute since I was 9, just because someone strums a power chord on a guitar and sings a few notes doesn't make them a musician! How insulting to actual musicians.

Well, according to the reports and videos I've seen, he plays several instruments. What is more amazing is that he writes the songs he sings, and they are good songs. How many good songs have you written? How many could get 727 million views on a you tube video?


Does he write his own songs? His producer says yes:
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/163...gy-usher.jhtml
"He's a prodigy"

Same here. His music is still unimaginative, bland, and unintelligent.

I can't really judge for sure after 2 days of knowing his music, but so far I can't call "Pray" any of those things.

See this is the problem I have with this kid...there used to be a kid singer when I was young called Billy Gilman. This kid performed at tons of local country concerts just to get notoriety. This was probably around the late 90s. Even today, there are kids, like Shaheen Jafargholi (from Britain's Got Talent) that blow that Bieber kid OUT OF THE WATER.

There are a whole lot of talented people, young and old, alive and dead, that never get the attention they deserve. That's the way of the world. I agree with you that there may be many as talented or more talented than Bieber who are not noticed. I'm glad though that more talented people are creating some kind of sensation today. With Lady Gaga and Justin Bieber, pop music may finally be coming back. And it may open doors for others. What Bieber has shown me so far is real songwriting talent. And those videos are spectacular.

No flipping way is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLJ9fHqDlOA

better than this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYDM3MIzEHo

No flipping way Eric. Clean your ears out! As a trained musician, I can only recognize that once voice is clearly superior to the other.

If you are only considering voice, yes his voice is superior. But the Bieber song is good, and what's more, original; and I like it. That puts Bieber light years ahead of some guy on a TV show who can sing a Michael Jackson song well. But we'll see, I wish him the best.

Actually Donny Osmond's music had interesting things happen.

Well, tastes differ. I think it had nothing, and I still do. One bad apple spoiled the music of the early 1970s. Totally. In fact, he ruined pop music from that day till this.

David Cassidy? Very boring songs. Almost everything else from that time was better. He was liked because he was on TV.

But I liked Michael Jackson's song "I'll be There." Age had nothing to do with it for me, and still doesn't.

Bubble gum music was a real let down from what had been happening in the late 60s. From then on, good rock music was found on FM or in fringe markets. Today, Justin Bieber may actually be raising the quality level of pop from the garbage heap it has been.

Yea but you forgot that it starts out pretty damn boring in the first place...

How could I forget it, when I admitted it? Don't forget that it gets better as it goes along!
So far I like every one of his songs I've heard, except his latest.

Appearances and first impressions can be deceiving. A lot of people said the same thing about the Beatles. We'll see.

I'm glad that you are a musician Felix. Keep it up! "Never Say Never!"

(and I'm glad there's a representative of the "Bieber haters" (dislikers, or whatever) on this thread)*

*EDIT: unfortunately, there would be quite a few more.....

Originally Posted by Chas'88

Eric, I'm having trouble navigating your website, where do you list the Generations and their planetary aspects, like Rags has?

~Chas'88

here
http://philosopherswheel.com/generations.htm

Originally Posted by Tussilago

People born in that time span can be either Boomer or Xer. Is there any particular reason you haven't adopted the Joneser concept, Eric? Or at least the typologization of S&H with Xers as starting in 1961?

I wrote it before T4T, and before there was a Joneser concept. 1962 was an overlap year, but 1961 could be too, since my typology is based on positions of outer planets in signs. Uranus moved back and forth between Leo and Virgo in those years. It indicates also that the idea of cusps (an astrological term to begin with) has some validity.

Originally Posted by Uzi

Everybody hated Valentino, too, because he was also a girly boy.

I am not in agreement with disliking or hating guys because they are girly boys.

Originally Posted by summer in the fall

Well, it wouldn't say much about you. Because this image is not wholly different from what you came of age with?



This is the point being made about contradiction within the culture. He is clearly appealing to an element within the culture that is exaggeratedly debased or devalued. And because only he is allowed to express it (rather than say Asian pop again), he can be both the single avenue with which to experience it as well as the single target with which to rebuke it. It's a way to not have to deal with the desires he elicits. It's quite indicative of the way our consumer culture works and is why those youtube comments are so fascinating...

Good points.

there's more than a bit of suspicion that those comments may not be his....

although he confirmed in an interview posted on you tube (I watched several) that he is very active on facebook and twitter (and of course you tube where he has his own channel that has gotten over 2 billion views), and spends hours personally answering people.

Originally Posted by Tussilago

I hate him cause he seems like a self infatuated and arrogant little pompous ass.

Not that I saw from his interviews.

Either way, I don't they think David Casssidy or Donny Osmond got a whole respect from teenage boys and young guys back then. Although when I was grade school I did have Partridge Family lunchbox and I wanted to marry Donny Osmond. It's the same thing. They appealed to young pre-teen girls, much like Justin Bieber does today or the Back Street Boys did when you are were a young girl.

It's the same thing in the sense that they were teen fads, but other than that there isn't really anything similar about any of those musicians.

Backstreet Boys were total packaged garbage, but some of them did sing better than Justin Bieber and their songs were at least catchy (even if they were disgustingly cheesy)

I still like it...........



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9tJW9MDs2M

One thing I notice, is that his songs get better as they go along, and the best parts tend to be the end. That is certainly true with this one. Brilliant vocal agility at the end.

Even though his vocal style does not always rise above the usual styles, as I said.

Of course, if you remember the "visions of the future" thread, it might not be too surprising that I like this one, my favorite of his so far. And songs that have such a good piano part as this, and backing vocal tracks, and subtle arrangement of counter melodies, and such a lively spirit; it's a good one!

http://www.directlyrics.com/justin-b...ay-lyrics.html

Dear God...Eric, I give up on you.

David Cassidy? Very boring songs. Almost everything else from that time was better. He was liked because he was on TV.

....you can say the same thing about Justin Bieber and today's musicians....what a pathetic argument.

Does he write his own songs? His producer says yes:
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/163...gy-usher.jhtml
"He's a prodigy"

No Billy Gilman and Shaheen Jafarholi were child prodigies, but the music industry loves to throw that word around to entice the buyers.

Well, according to the reports and videos I've seen, he plays several instruments.

Does he play them well is what counts...before the age of 18 I played "several instruments" as well. I taught myself how to play classical music on the Clarinet in a matter of 3 months...and I don't consider myself a good or even talented musician by any means.

What is more amazing is that he writes the songs he sings,

What's so amazing about this? I sing and pretty fucking awesome I might add.

Anyone can write a song, that doesn't mean you're amazing. What kind of standards do you hold for "amazing" music??

and they are good songs.

Heavily debatable. I mean they're derivative of everything that's been going on in the pop, RnB, and rock scene for 15-20 years. They have simplistic beats, simplistic chords, and mind numbingly simplistic lyrics.

And I was like baby, baby, baby, oh
Like baby, baby, baby, no
Like baby, baby, baby, oh
I thought you'd always be mine, mine

This is mind numbingly simplistic...

How many good songs have you written?

My songwriting abilities are irrelevant to Justin Biebers' songwriting abilities.

Even if mine were inferior to his, it still doesn't make him a good or even talented songwriter. It doesn't change anything I've said about his songwriting ability or vocal quality.

How many could get 727 million views on a you tube video?

I believe a cat getting stuck in a tissue box once ranked up several million. People will watch pretty much anything that catches their attention. There's something fascinating about child stars and specifically kid singers, to the public. I think it's because these kids reach heights of fame and fortune that we all know they will never reach again once they enter their young adult years. It's like waiting for a train crash.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

I still like it...........



http://youtu.be/

One thing I notice, is that his songs get better as they go along, and the best parts tend to be the end. That is certainly true with this one. Brilliant vocal agility at the end.

Even though his vocal style does not always rise above the usual styles, as I said.

Personally, I think it's great that you like Justin Bieber. At least you are willing to step out your musical bubble and listen to and can appreciate newer music. As we have said on another thread. Most of us as we start getting older tend to disengage from the newer stuff and just listen to the stuff that was popular when we were younger. So I say, good for you that you are at least trying to stay current.

Originally Posted by ASB65

Personally, I think it's great that you like Justin Bieber. At least you are willing to step out your musical bubble and listen to and can appreciate newer music.

YES! That's a great thing and why I'm enjoying this thread.

At the same time, I dislike the extent to which my children have been completely overwhelmed by the entertainment octopus, of which Justin Bieber and Selena Gomez are just two of many, many heads. I am glad we decided not to have television in our house. They might have been completely lobotomized by Disney by now. The stuff is potent. You can lose your child.

Amazing how ineffective it was to not have television, your kid still got sucked into Disneyfied pop stars.

Unfortunately my age group (1986-1993) grew up being manipulated to "like" these pop musicians. They were brainwashed into thinking this was the type of music they were supposed to listen to. I guess you could say the same about other age groups, but it was particularly potent in the late 80s, early 90s babies. I'm only grateful I saw it for what it was when I was in middle school. Shallow garbage.

What parents need to do, is teach their kids what REAL music is. Don't expect them to like good music when you don't make an effort to instill art and music appreciation into their minds.

They weren't exactly buying the soundtrack from Grease. No, they were listening hard rock, punk rock, and heavy metal. They preferred the more grittier stuff. And do you remember what the guys from those bands looked like back then?

I think you're right and bring up a really interesting point.

I think this stereotype of "girls like pop music" and "Boys like hard rock" has come from the baby boomer generations themselves when they redefined gender roles. (and really they were just emulating what their silent role models created before them) As a little girl of 6 years old, I loved hard rock music. I love 70s blues rock, I loved Led Zeppelin, Free (and Paul Rogers), I loved grunge. I also liked pop music (Elton John, Fine Young Cannibals, Seal, as long as it was well made and interesting.) I never considered myself a "tomboy" I wasn't playing baseball and climbing trees. Although I played with barbies I never considered myself a "girly girl" either. I had no tutus, or Disney princess outfits.

But for some reason "girls have to like pop music" and boys have to "like rock/rap" music. I just don't understand why people can't just like GOOD music. It's nature v nurture. Young boys grew up with fathers and young adult male role models who blasted rock music (and later rap) and thought this was how they were supposed to go about music. That was their music education...

*Since I was a classically trained musician, mine was vastly different from the norm.

And for young girls it was Madonna, Debbie Gibson, Brittney Spears...I mean not just atrocious pop music, but atrocious music in general....

When it comes to females, they have the WORST music given to them by the music industry. Their "music" is the lowest common denominator. How sad that we treat women such musical inequality, as if they're not intelligent or creative enough to appreciate good music. All they can handle is "Cute booooy" ::drool:: But boys are somehow better equipped intellectually to handle complex guitar riffs. (I think it's almost the opposite with boys and television though.)

Originally Posted by Felix5

I think you're right and bring up a really interesting point.

I think this stereotype of "girls like pop music" and "Boys like hard rock" has come from the baby boomer generations themselves when they redefined gender roles. (and really they were just emulating what their silent role models created before them) As a little girl of 6 years old, I loved hard rock music. I love 70s blues rock, I loved Led Zeppelin, Free (and Paul Rogers), I loved grunge. I also liked pop music (Elton John, Fine Young Cannibals, Seal, as long as it was well made and interesting.) I never considered myself a "tomboy" I wasn't playing baseball and climbing trees. Although I played with barbies I never considered myself a "girly girl" either. I had no tutus, or Disney princess outfits.

But for some reason "girls have to like pop music" and boys have to "like rock/rap" music. I just don't understand why people can't just like GOOD music. It's nature v nurture. Young boys grew up with fathers and young adult male role models who blasted rock music (and later rap) and thought this was how they were supposed to go about music. That was their music education...

*Since I was a classically trained musician, mine was vastly different from the norm.

And for young girls it was Madonna, Debbie Gibson, Brittney Spears...I mean not just atrocious pop music, but atrocious music in general....

When it comes to females, they have the WORST music given to them by the music industry. Their "music" is the lowest common denominator. How sad that we treat women such musical inequality, as if they're not intelligent or creative enough to appreciate good music. All they can handle is "Cute booooy" ::drool:: But boys are somehow better equipped intellectually to handle complex guitar riffs. (I think it's almost the opposite with boys and television though.)

Actually when I was a young girl, there really wasn't a lot of different choices in music stations. That was before FM radio and you only got a few different radio stations on AM. Your choices were usually, the country music station, classical music station, oddies music station (which was like big band and jazz) and top 40. I listened to the top 40 station and it was mix of all types of popular music. For example, they would play Donny Osmond, then Led Zepplin next, followed by Marvin Gaye. I'm not sure if any music was marketed to any certain age group or gender other than just "young people". Which consisted of anyone under 30. Whether that be age 29 or age 5. Still the little girls just seemed to be naturally drawn to the bubble gum of soft rock stuff. Although I really liked Motown too...And I still like soft rock and Motown. I'm stuck in the music of my youth.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Originally Posted by summer in the fall

This thread needs visuals...
January







Best...

Pretty, but not pretty enough. Here's the worlds prettiest man:




Justin, eat your heart out ... or something.

Wiki

Andrej Pejić (pronounced An-DREY PEJ-ick^[1]) (born 28 August 1991 in Tuzla, SR Bosnia-Herzegovina, SFR Yugoslavia) is an Australianandrogynous model

Introduction of this type of gender performance veers the conversation in another direction entirely, particularly as it exposes the well known secret that high fashion is the domain of a large number androgynes -- people with both male and female reproductive systems. This is one of the reasons why women have such body issues...being held to a standard that biologically they cannot meet...

Best...

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Originally Posted by Uzi

Everybody hated Valentino, too, because he was also a girly boy.

I am not in agreement with disliking or hating guys because they are girly boys.

Why do I instantly think of this?

http://www.hulu.com/watch/4184/satur...hans-and-franz

Cheers.

Still the little girls just seemed to be naturally drawn to the bubble gum of soft rock stuff. Although I really liked Motown too...And I still like soft rock and Motown. I'm stuck in the music of my youth.

Yea, but I wasn't, so how can that possibly be true?

I liked dark, grungy sounding music, specifically hard rock. This was before I had any music training at all, this is what I was naturally drawn to.

I think society makes girls believe they have to like certain things. Did your friends, mother, aunts, female cousins listen to only pop music?

Originally Posted by Felix5

I believe a cat getting stuck in a tissue box once ranked up several million.

You rang? Never saw it before you mentioned it...

~Chas'88

Originally Posted by ASB65

Did it ever occur to anyone that perhaps teenage boys just really aren't into bubble gum pop music and it doesn't really have anything to do with what Justin Bieber looks like? I know they certainly weren't when I was teenager back in the early 80's. They weren't exactly buying the soundtrack from Grease. No, they were listening hard rock, punk rock, and heavy metal. They preferred the more grittier stuff. And do you remember what the guys from those bands looked like back then? A lot of them had long, poofed out, hair sprayed hair and wore make-up. They weren't exactly the John Wayne or Clint Eastwood looking types. And guess what, there are a lot guys from alternative or indie bands that the teenage boys do like who still have long hair and some still wear make-up.

Well, Grease was kind of dated by the early 80's anyway.

Does everything on this forum need to be turned into some kind of gender or culture wars statement? Geez...Get over it.

I know, I'm being childish. Dumping on a children's pop idol isn't precisely mature behavior.

But it feels so good behaving like a total imbecille sometimes.

This is what I used to listen to when I was in Justin Bieber age (or maybe rather constantly overheard). I was totally fascinated with the violent urbanism implied and thought "Police & Thieves" had really spooky, out there rythms.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcbfG...eature=related

In the autumn of 1978 it didn't stop me from thinking Grease was the best thing to come along since sliced bread though, or at least Bugsy Malone. My Elvis fanatic Boomer cousin (who was more like a Silent) took us four times to watch the movie. Daydreaming away I don't know how many hours in school, if I only could go back to the 50's and bring along the girl in class I had developed a serious crush on, and make out in a rusty old Ford, I wouldn't need anything more in this life, it seemed to me...

Originally Posted by Chas'88

You rang? Never saw it before you mentioned it...

~Chas'88

People love those cat videos. I do too!

Someone here before referred me to Clash. My opinion hasn't changed; no thanks.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Someone here before referred me to Clash. My opinion hasn't changed; no thanks.

You mean The Clash? You're a Sun Child with flowers in your hair. You're excused.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

here
http://philosopherswheel.com/generations.htm

"The committed ones," 1988-1995 (Generation Y-b) (Uranus conjunct Neptune in Capricorn, Pluto in Scorpio) This is a group with outstanding potential. It is a very precocious generation, but won't burn itself out in youth. They are steady, persistent, determined, ambitious and passionate. They have great talent in the arts, politics and organization, and they may be the great leaders who lay down lasting foundations for a new age of civilization. On the other hand, some might consider them too cold, calculating, rigid, worldly or obsessed with their own goals.

I don't really notice a diffrence between me and 1996ers. But again I was born in late 1995 not erarly, so yeah.....


- By the way I've noticed that indeed erarly 1970's cohorts are "frendly and easy going".

And another observation: the 82-83 cohorts were the graduated HS in a pre-9/11 world.. Hmm.

I know, I'm being childish. Dumping on a children's pop idol isn't precisely mature behavior.

For the last time he is 18 years old, treat him like an adult...