Originally Posted by millennialX

Originally Posted by summer in the fall

An issue Miss Amy can relate to...



Best...

I wonder if the father would let the kid go wild over "No Scrubs?"

Love the clip above!

...point being, the record industry is too marketing acts to boys. We're just not permitting them to enjoy it. Let boys be happy.

Best...

Originally Posted by summer in the fall

...point being, the record industry is too marketing acts to boys. We're just not permitting them to enjoy it.

Best...

Well like I suggested in an earlier post, I do think that if you get the girls, you can get the boys. Girls "just wanna have fun" and can bring their daddy to repeated viewings of a flick, concert and lighten things up for boys and boyfriends to sing along.

It's indirect marketing, but works better then going straight to them, because teenage boys don't know what they want and may be to busy posing as something older, tougher and/or else, IMO.

Anyone ever notice how pop stars third albums have been marketed as more gritty, real and R & Bish sense the days of Janet Jackson? They are also the ones to most likely be self titled. Anyway, that's how Justin will be portrayed on his 3rd album.

Originally Posted by millennialX

Anyone ever notice how pop stars third albums have been marketed as more gritty, real and R & Bish sense the days of Janet Jackson? They are also the ones to most likely be self titled. Anyway, that's how Justin will be portrayed on his 3rd album.

And on a rather ironic note, I read this and then clicked over to facebook and saw my teenage son's status (who knows absolutely nothing about this particular conversation.) Maybe since you are also fb friend's with him you might have caught it too...His quote "The first album or two is always much better than everything else." And generally this is the way people feel. But I think what really goes on is that the new star bursts on to the scene, grabs a certain audience with their particular sound, and then later tries to experiment and reach out a broader audience and it changes the sound of what originally made them popular in the first place.

Originally Posted by ASB65

And on a rather ironic note, I read this and then clicked over to facebook and saw my teenage son's status (who knows absolutely nothing about this particular conversation.) Maybe since you are also fb friend's with him you might have caught it too...His quote "The first album or two is always much better than everything else." And generally this is the way people feel. But I think what really goes on is that the new star bursts on to the scene, grabs a certain audience with their particular sound, and then later tries to experiment and reach out a broader audience and it changes the sound of what originally made them popular in the first place.

HA! I just read his post too, and commented on his post! But I wrote the post here, 30 minutes before reading his status.

Originally Posted by summer in the fall

Andrej Pejić is an androgynous man. Whether he is entirely biologically male ... or not is beside the point, the presence of androgynes within the fashion industry is common, but carries enough stigma that it is not talked about openly. It's the lack of openness about this topic which puts girls and women in danger... Males have body issues as well...But for females it's off the charts...

The body issues women have are complex manifestations of the marketing world ... especially in the fashon indusry. I couldn't agree with that more than I do. We now have anorexic models as the norm, with plus size starting at 6. These are not healthy, but the cause is poplar culture. There has to be a rejecion of this by women . There are efforts uderway to change it. Let's hope it helps.

Originally Posted by summer in the fall

Justin Bieber -- Sir Eric's avatar...

Cheers

I admire him and like his songs. Only one of them so far would make my 400 favorites list, though, if it were open to new ones.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

I admire him and like his songs. Only one of them so far would make my 400 favorites list, though, if it were open to new ones.

So far he's made the top of your list on this thread...

Best...

Originally Posted by millennialX

As far as young men who do view stuff targeted to young women (teen flicks) I do think those films work because young women want to see it and then bring their male friends to the theaters to watch it with them. In regards to Titanic, in 1997, it was mainly for make out purposes.

Gee, I thought boys watched Titanic because of all the special effects!

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

Gee, I thought boys watched Titanic because of all the special effects!

Haha, I'll be honest. For me, that was the motivation for my first viewing. Also...um...my grandmom was with me, then. LOL

I've been away for a few days, and there is a hot thread about Justin Bieber?

And Eric the Green proclaims himself a fan?

Wow....seriously cool.

Original statement:

Originally Posted by summer in the fall

Introduction of this type of gender performance veers the conversation in another direction entirely, particularly as it exposes the well known secret that high fashion is the domain of a large number androgynes -- people with both male and female reproductive systems. This is one of the reasons why women have such body issues...being held to a standard that biologically they cannot meet...

So...

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Originally Posted by summer in the fall

Andrej Pejić is an androgynous man. Whether he is entirely biologically male (hermaphrodite is a derogatory term) or not is beside the point, the presence of androgynes within the fashion industry is common, but carries enough stigma that it is not talked about openly. It's the lack of openness about this topic which puts girls and women in danger. They are looking at ideal forms of feminine beauty that do not correspond to the way the majority of women look (less than 5% of female population with V-shaped predominately masculine bodies, rather than pear-shaped feminine bodies). If you have ever loved a woman, had a daughter or granddaughter it would actually be of some concern to you to, as unlike Bieber, this standard of beauty is not the exception, but the rule. ... Males have body issues as well...But for females it's off the charts.

Also working as a "female model" qualifies for the term transgendered. So whether or not Mr. Pejić is a beautiful androgynous male, this is still a valid topic to bring up, as just like Bieber, high fashion models are marketed primarily to females.

The body issues women have are complex manifestations of the marketing world ... especially in the fashon indusry.

That would pretty much be what the last two post said...

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

I couldn't agree with that more than I do.

Glad that you agree that the normalization of androgynes as fashion models for women have caused the perception of women's bodies to be altered.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

We now have anorexic models as the norm, with plus size starting at 6.

That's what the article you posted said, right...

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

These are not healthy, but the cause is poplar culture.

"Popular culture" is not an answer, something akin to saying clouds cause rain. And in actuality, it's not altogether true. The fashion industry is but one branch of elite arenas of society, such as politics, that infuse popular culture. At one point in time the fashion industry made the decision, among other things, to use androgynes to market clothing to women.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

There has to be a rejecion of this by women .

Women do not need to necessarily reject androgynes. But a change would have to take place to distinguish women's bodies from the image currently being drawn of them.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Let's hope it helps.

Mocking the health and well-being of women rarely does...

Cheers.

Originally Posted by Odin

I've always perceived Mediterranean Europeans to be big on "Machismo". when I think of the kind of men you are thinking of I think of the French.

Valentino was Italian. The point was that Valentino was not a tough guy, he wasn't extremely macho, and yet millions of women went bananas when he died. Therefore, he proved the point that you don't need to be a macho alpha douchebag to impress women, a valuable lesson for those of us who are not macho alpha douchebags.

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

Gee, I thought boys watched Titanic because of all the special effects!

After seeing it in the theater, I remember thinking, "Man, Kate Winslet is beautiful," and then thinking, "Man, I need to get a new girlfriend."

Originally Posted by summer in the fall

Andrej Pejić is an androgynous man. Whether he is entirely biologically male (hermaphrodite is a derogatory term) or not is beside the point, the presence of androgynes within the fashion industry is common, but carries enough stigma that it is not talked about openly. It's the lack of openness about this topic which puts girls and women in danger. They are looking at ideal forms of feminine beauty that do not correspond to the way the majority of women look (less than 5% of female population with V-shaped predominately masculine bodies, rather than pear-shaped feminine bodies). If you have ever loved a woman, had a daughter or granddaughter it would actually be of some concern to you to, as unlike Bieber, this standard of beauty is not the exception, but the rule.

I feel like I am up against a tidal wave on this issue. I have three girls, ages 8, 4, and 7 months, and the eight-year-old already asked me if I thought she was too fat, and I told her, "No, you're too skinny, you need to eat more," "But so-and-so at school is thinner than I am," "She's too skinny too. You both need to eat more." I have no idea how to battle this. It's like feeling around inside a black bag in a dark room (remember that? junior high photography?) And the thing is that I like bigger women. I am a big person myself, I am 6'3", 230 pounds, I couldn't "have relations" with some emaciated model! Gross. I think most of the skinny models are unattractive. They make me hungry just looking at them. And now I have to somehow reprogram my kid so that she doesn't turn into a bulimic and go nuts (like I am seen happen to so many of my peers) because some lame, vain fashion guru likes to hang his threads on Skeletor. Terrific. But my wife, who is very curvy, doesn't seem to be so preoccupied with body image, and I think she's their ultimate role model. Mommy shows that it's okay to be who you are, Daddy shows that he loves Mommy the way she is. Hopefully that can hold off the onslaught of malnutritioned "androgynes."

Originally Posted by Uzi

I feel like I am up against a tidal wave on this issue. I have three girls, ages 8, 4, and 7 months, and the eight-year-old already asked me if I thought she was too fat, and I told her, "No, you're too skinny, you need to eat more," "But so-and-so at school is thinner than I am," "She's too skinny too. You both need to eat more." I have no idea how to battle this. It's like feeling around inside a black bag in a dark room (remember that? junior high photography?) And the thing is that I like bigger women. I am a big person myself, I am 6'3", 230 pounds, I couldn't "have relations" with some emaciated model! Gross. I think most of the skinny models are unattractive. They make me hungry just looking at them. And now I have to somehow reprogram my kid so that she doesn't turn into a bulimic and go nuts (like I am seen happen to so many of my peers) because some lame, vain fashion guru likes to hang his threads on Skeletor. Terrific. But my wife, who is very curvy, doesn't seem to be so preoccupied with body image, and I think she's their ultimate role model. Mommy shows that it's okay to be who you are, Daddy shows that he loves Mommy the way she is. Hopefully that can hold off the onslaught of malnutritioned "androgynes."

We probably need more heterosexual males in the fashion industry. Bisexuals would likely cut it as well.

Here's just one sample of "Bieber-hater" comments on other you tube videos. These were recently posted on the Please Please Me video (one of my favorite Beatles songs)

...the only thing beatles could write was about love, war and peace and that's something that even justin bieber could.
te0nzin in reply to Thomasskateboards (Show the comment) 1 week ago

will do... but never compare justin bieber to the Beatles!!
Thomasskateboards in reply to te0nzin 1 week ago

haha sorry won't happen again ! ;D beatles are great, they're pioneers of the new rock era and JB is just a piece of shit
te0nzin in reply to Thomasskateboards (Show the comment) 6 days ago

So seeing this over and over for a year or more I just had to check him out!

(now of course I'm smitten with the kid)

I can't get over it: 2,400,000 dislikes (all time record), 1,100,000 likes (all-time #2), and 728 million views and counting (all time record) for his video Baby. Most-often searched for name on google. "Most hated man on the internet" according to one video artist.

And what's that move @ 1:58? Ooh, did Justin get metaphysical?

Eh, I don't really get either side of the love/hate thing. He's just another generic pop star being marketed to the 8-14 female demographic. Maybe there are a lot of annoyed dads and older brothers who would rather be listening to & spending money on something else?

I got most of the way through the video, just for a reminder of what the big deal is, but by the time Ludacris took the mic I was reminded of what I'd rather be listening to: Harmony is for the strings but well-placed dissonance can be just as nice; a good melody has its own harmony, too; rhythm is everything and if the beat doesn't make me move it can't hold my attention; complexity is vital, I want to feel mystified, and as someone who plays a few instruments that takes a lot of creativity; vocals aren't that important, but if you're gonna yak over the music you better make it relevant to bigger issues than a high school crush. Obviously, Bieber doesn't satisfy the criteria I tend to value in music.

Oh at the very least, at least a modicum of musical talent has returned as one of the requirements for generic pop acts. I swear, sometime around '98 image was the only thing considered, I mean, how else can we explain the Spears era of singer/dancers who can't really sing or dance?

Originally Posted by JohnMc82

Eh, I don't really get either side of the love/hate thing. He's just another generic pop star being marketed to the 8-14 female demographic. Maybe there are a lot of annoyed dads and older brothers who would rather be listening to & spending money on something else?

I got most of the way through the video, just for a reminder of what the big deal is, but by the time Ludacris took the mic I was reminded of what I'd rather be listening to: Harmony is for the strings but well-placed dissonance can be just as nice; a good melody has its own harmony, too; rhythm is everything and if the beat doesn't make me move it can't hold my attention; complexity is vital, I want to feel mystified, and as someone who plays a few instruments that takes a lot of creativity; vocals aren't that important, but if you're gonna yak over the music you better make it relevant to bigger issues than a high school crush. Obviously, Bieber doesn't satisfy the criteria I tend to value in music.

Oh at the very least, at least a modicum of musical talent has returned as one of the requirements for generic pop acts. I swear, sometime around '98 image was the only thing considered, I mean, how else can we explain the Spears era of singer/dancers who can't really sing or dance?

What is there to get? Some people are just going to hate and always has to say something. It's so funny how some take time out of their life to complain about stuff that we all know they are not suppose to like anyway. The cycle of I'm too cool for school continues on. I enjoyed your post and when I absolutely hate an artist, you know what I don't do? I don't listen to them!

Originally Posted by millennialX

What is there to get? Some people are just going to hate and always has to say something. It's so funny how some take time out of their life to complain about stuff that we all know they are not suppose to like anyway. The cycle of I'm too cool for school continues on. I enjoyed your post and when I absolutely hate an artist, you know what I don't do? I don't listen to them!

What he said.

I watched the AMA performance by Bieber. I enjoyed it. It's a good song.

Now I'm thinking, how high would Pray go on my oldies top 400 list? This song is compared to Jackson's Man in the Mirror (including by Bieber himself), but a closer parallel would be Marvin Gaye's What's Going On #107 on my list (and arguably should be higher). Bieber's voice and charisma is fabulous, for who he is; but he's no Marvin Gaye, probably the greatest soul/R&B singer ever-- at least not yet. But in other respects the two pieces compare very well, and I am more swept away now by Pray than I was then by the Marvin Gaye classic, a number one song for me in Spring 1971.

Originally Posted by millennialX

What is there to get? Some people are just going to hate and always has to say something. It's so funny how some take time out of their life to complain about stuff that we all know they are not suppose to like anyway. The cycle of I'm too cool for school continues on. I enjoyed your post and when I absolutely hate an artist, you know what I don't do? I don't listen to them!

Yeah but this is a bit more than the usual level of haters hating, isn't it? I mean, 2.5 million dislikes, and the top comment right now is making fun of his penis size! All I can think of is that there are a lot of people who would like to ignore/avoid it... but can't for whatever reason. Also: 14-18 year old boys jealous of the attention he gets.

There has not been a more poignant, passionate pop song in 30 years than "Pray" by Justin Bieber.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

There has not been a more poignant, passionate pop song in 30 years than "Pray" by Justin Bieber.

I guess your not a firework or a plastic bag, huh? LOL

(Katy Perry song).

I'm glad you mentioned just pop, because taking a stroll in other genres would say otherwise.