Originally Posted by Eric the Green

I take your claims about "handlers" who do that with a grain of salt too. Knowing how many fake phone calls I get, I suspect robots are out there amassing fake followers for all the celebs for some commercial purpose. But I understand you know more about this than I do. I just wonder if one's number of followers on twitter is that important to a celebrity that they would buy and add fake followers just to build up their number. And all of them doing it? Even the president? Why? And even with all these fakes, no-one can keep up with Justin Bieber. Not Warren Buffet, and not even Lady Gaga. Why?

Why would Obama's handlers waste their time boosting the stats on his number of followers? I suspect these fakes come from other sources besides the celeb or his handlers.

I don't see why such an inactive follower is not a true follower. Many folks don't have to time to keep up with twitter that fast. I stopped using it because it has too many roadblocks to use. That may be a factor for many people too.

Apparently they all do it, even the president. And you can't deny that JB still has more "real" followers than anyone. It is the quality of his music that matters to JB and his followers. You deny this quality, so maybe you attribute his popularity more to handlers and fake followers. But that's your opinion, and I am happy to receive it on this thread.

You did notice, from the link, that many well known celebs (even though you seem to be taking it as an attack on JB) have fake followers. The reason for this is marketing; as in: Look at how JB has "the most followers". It works on you, and works on many others too.

It's marketing, pure and simple. It's unethical marketing, in my opinion, but marketing none the less. There are people who look at the raw numbers, uncritically as you do, and take them at face value. There are top ten lists all over the internet ranking celebs by followers on Twitter and friends on Facebook. There is fierce competition to be at the top of these lists. One way to get to the top is to game the lists; buy purchasing followers.

The President's staff would want to inflate his follower numbers for the same reason. Politics is a dirty game, and tricking the electorate is part and parcel with the entire industry.

I am sorry that you are offended by the reality of the music industry, but it is one with a long and proven track record of dirty tricks.

As a person who has built up a list of followers through posting good content, and heavy engagement with those followers, I am offended by celebs and their handlers who game the system. They lose my respect for buying followers.

I advise all of my clients to never buy followers, and to build up their follower lists organically, the right way through content and engagement. I say the same thing on my interviews. Ethics matter.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Who is the Beiberbot?

How about Belieberbots?

Either way, it's a bot, and not a real person.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

But I understand you know more about this than I do.

I almost missed this one. Thanks.

And you can't deny that JB still has more "real" followers than anyone. It is the quality of his music that matters to JB and his followers. You deny this quality, so maybe you attribute his popularity more to handlers and fake followers. But that's your opinion, and I am happy to receive it on this thread.

I never denied anything about the numbers of real followers. I was discussing the fakes and inactives, and how they are commonly used to boost Twitter follower numbers. It's simply the music industry following the 3T "everything is a winner take all no holds barred competition" model. JB is part of that industry; as are the other performers listed on the site.

Hey, i have an idea. How about this: You can attribute the fakes and inactives to some nefarious Xer? That explanation would work for you, I would think.

Note to the Xers: No real Xers were harmed in the making or dissemination of this posting. Any generational labels were used for entertainment purposes only. Any connection to any Xers either living, dead, or undead was purely coincidental.

Originally Posted by Wayneh56

I never denied anything about the numbers of real followers. I was discussing the fakes and inactives, and how they are commonly used to boost Twitter follower numbers. It's simply the music industry following the 3T "everything is a winner take all no holds barred competition" model. JB is part of that industry; as are the other performers listed on the site.

But we're in the 4T now. I think JB and a few others like Owl City have gone back to making music for the music again. JB has said so, and I Believe him. Imagine that! Music, instead of punk, metal, grunge, rap, manufactured pop, K-pop.....

Hey, i have an idea. How about this: You can attribute the fakes and inactives to some nefarious Xer? That explanation would work for you, I would think.

No, I couldn't blame you then Or Steve Jobs either, or Bill Gates, your near-cohorts, or whoever else we blame for all the bots. Oh those wretched disco boomers, they created all those bots.

Note to the Xers: No real Xers were harmed in the making or dissemination of this posting. Any generational labels were used for entertainment purposes only. Any connection to any Xers either living, dead, or undead was purely coincidental.

But you did slam the 3T, which culturally was the province and creation of Xers.

Originally Posted by Wayneh56

You did notice, from the link, that many well known celebs (even though you seem to be taking it as an attack on JB) have fake followers. The reason for this is marketing; as in: Look at how JB has "the most followers". It works on you, and works on many others too.

His music works on me, but not on you.

It's marketing, pure and simple. It's unethical marketing, in my opinion, but marketing none the less. There are people who look at the raw numbers, uncritically as you do, and take them at face value.

Right; how would I know? How many of us are experts on twitter; still less would ever want to be experts on twitter? It's a rather useless enterprise, IMO. What can you say in 140 characters?

There are top ten lists all over the internet ranking celebs by followers on Twitter and friends on Facebook. There is fierce competition to be at the top of these lists. One way to get to the top is to game the lists; buy purchasing followers.

And they never beat JB!!!! He's #1, because he's the best!!!! Most googled too. Can you fake that too? Probably.... That's a lot of fakin' goin' on. #1 on twitter, facebook, google, and you tube....

The President's staff would want to inflate his follower numbers for the same reason. Politics is a dirty game, and tricking the electorate is part and parcel with the entire industry.

Mr. Obama pretty well blew Mr. Romney out of the water!

I am sorry that you are offended by the reality of the music industry, but it is one with a long and proven track record of dirty tricks.

And dirty lousy music. 30+ years worth!

As a person who has built up a list of followers through posting good content, and heavy engagement with those followers, I am offended by celebs and their handlers who game the system. They lose my respect for buying followers.

I advise all of my clients to never buy followers, and to build up their follower lists organically, the right way through content and engagement. I say the same thing on my interviews. Ethics matter.

On that last sentence, we agree.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

But we're in the 4T now. I think JB and a few others like Howl City have gone back to making music for the music again. JB has said so, and I Believe him. Imagine that! Music, instead of punk, metal, grunge, rap, manufactured pop, K-pop.....

No, I couldn't blame you then Or Steve Jobs either, or Bill Gates, your near-cohorts, or whoever else we blame for all the bots. Oh those wretched disco boomers, they created all those bots.

JB is and will always be cow shit.

and

Originally Posted by Wayne'56

Hey, i have an idea. How about this: You can attribute the fakes and inactives to some nefarious Xer? That explanation would work for you, I would think.

Yes, it's wretched Xers who program bots. That's the first generation which gained some familiarity with computers and have been known to resort nefarious practices like hacking. Disco Boomers are innocent. I wonder if I can upload some heavy metal youtube stuff to Eric's website. Jobs just made a very insecure platform, the Ishit. No firewalls, no nothing.

http://www.2600.com/

But you did slam the 3T, which culturally was the province and creation of Xers.

No, he was actually discussing the use of bots to achieve some sort of goal. If it's marketing, then nothing can stoop too low. That's why the reject option on my cell phone is my favorite feature. If a call comes in from some weird area code or it's one of those "withheld numbers", I do not answer. If there's a number it goes right into reject.

Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62

JB is and will always be cow shit.

In your opinion, but in mine it's some good shit!

and... I wonder if I can upload some heavy metal youtube stuff to Eric's website.

And I'll just unload that cow shit again!

No, he was actually discussing the use of bots to achieve some sort of goal. If it's marketing, then nothing can stoop too low. That's why the reject option on my cell phone is my favorite feature. If a call comes in from some weird area code or it's one of those "withheld numbers", I do not answer. If there's a number it goes right into reject.

And I have my technique on my old line phone and answering machine. I say, "if you are a robot, I don't want to talk to you." And presto, they go away!

I'm proud to be a belieberbot!
Anything JB does, I like!

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

In your opinion, but in mine it's some good shit!

Cow shit

And I'll just unload that cow shit again!

I'll do up a bot to upload every 10 minutes.

And I have my technique on my old line phone and answering machine. I say, "if you are a robot, I don't want to talk to you." And presto, they go away!

Yeah, that's confusing. They're usually programmed to hear "hello". Other input probably doesn't work. I just don't like actual huckster people calling either. The cell phone usually (if it isn't number withheld) keeps the number as "missed call". I then dump it into reject. Sort of how I use privoxy to nuke spysites like google-analytics.com

Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62

Cow shit

I didn't know cow shit was so good! Must be well-fed cows! Fertilizer for the growth of a new and better music; the rejection of the corrupt 3T music!

I'll do up a bot to upload every 10 minutes.

Well you got me there. I'd have to find some app to filter you out.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

His music works on me, but not on you.

Actually, per this conversation, it's the marketing of the Twitter follower numbers that worked on you. The music is irrelevant to the discussion. You wanted to talk numbers, and brag about JB's numbers, so that was the discussion. You didn't like the results of the conversation, so now you are claiming the conversation was about something else entirely.

Right; how would I know? How many of us are experts on twitter; still less would ever want to be experts on twitter? It's a rather useless enterprise, IMO. What can you say in 140 characters?

If then, as you say, Twitter is so useless, then why would you even care about how JB or any other celeb uses or abuses it? Why are you now resorting to criticism of Twitter that has provided some tremendous engagement and relationship building results for many people and businesses?

Social media consulting provides me with a living, just as chokras and horoscopes work for your living. I am not knocking your line of business; and never have. That is others here who do that. In fact, I once pointed out that your ideas in those fields were interesting to read.

And they never beat JB!!!! He's #1, because he's the best!!!! Most googled too. Can you fake that too? Probably.... That's a lot of fakin' goin' on. #1 on twitter, facebook, google, and you tube....

Most doesn't equate to best. Anyway, you are now moving the goalposts again. The original discussion was about his number of Twitter followers, which you brought up as important. I explained them to you. You are now resorting to the old trick of changing the subject and moving the goalposts.

JB and other celebs have fake Twitter followers. They resorted to cheating to pump up their numbers. That is the reality.

Mr. Obama pretty well blew Mr. Romney out of the water!

Are you suggesting that fake followers worked for the President's reelection campaign?

By the way, I was a supporter from outside the USA, of the reelection of President Obama.

And dirty lousy music. 30+ years worth!

The music industry is one that includes your boy whether you care to acknowledge it or not. The 3T contained some fantastic music, and some junk. That is true of every era including the 1T, 2T, and 4T.

On that last sentence, we agree.

See, I'm not so bad after all.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

I'm proud to be a belieberbot!
Anything JB does, I like!

We now know that "Anything JB does" includes the unethical use of fake Twitter followers.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

But we're in the 4T now.

My exact quote paragraph is as follows:

"It's simply the music industry following the 3T "everything is a winner take all no holds barred competition" model. JB is part of that industry; as are the other performers listed on the site."

The music industry continues to follow the 3T business model even though the 4T is upon us. That reluctance to move forward is one of the reasons that the music industry, and several other industries as well, are in serious decline as an industry. The music quality, good, bad or otherwise, is not relevant to that decline. The outmoded business model is the problem.

As a matter of interest, I was working against that failed 3T business model, back in the 3T itself. My improvements to that business model, and rejection of many of its false premises, are now being accepted as being the new wave of business management. We Disco Wavers can be real innovators.

No, I couldn't blame you then Or Steve Jobs either, or Bill Gates, your near-cohorts, or whoever else we blame for all the bots. Oh those wretched disco boomers, they created all those bots.

I was making a joke about your views on Xers that obviously whizzed right over your head. I was basing the joke on your obvious and often spoken dislike of Xers. I thought the smiley would make that joke clear, along with the fun little disclaimer I attached after it.

Disclaimer: I have always loved Xers.

And when did I praise either Bill Gates or Steve Jobs, their companies, or their products?

But you did slam the 3T, which culturally was the province and creation of Xers.

Boomers had a nice hand in creating the 3T too. You have heard of the culture wars, right? That was a Boomer and Silent province, and not one to be proud of either.

See above where I was pointing out how the music industry continues using the outdated 3T business model. I did not slam the 3T per se. I put the important part about the outmoded business model in bold.

Originally Posted by Wayneh56

My exact quote paragraph is as follows:

"It's simply the music industry following the 3T "everything is a winner take all no holds barred competition" model. JB is part of that industry; as are the other performers listed on the site."

The music industry continues to follow the 3T business model even though the 4T is upon us. That reluctance to move forward is one of the reasons that the music industry, and several other industries as well, are in serious decline as an industry. The music quality, good, bad or otherwise, is not relevant to that decline. The outmoded business model is the problem.

I think the model is still there; however I detect an improvement in the music and the approach of the performers. JB and Owl City are genuinely interested in making good music. That makes a difference in what we hear. I don't think the 3T performers had that interest, and if the quality of 4T pop has improved, then that's all I really care about. To reverse your statement to fit my views, I would say the decline of the music business is not relevant to the quality of the music, if the music is good. And some of it is, in my opinion. I know a bit about JB's team, and it is not like what you say.

As a matter of interest, I was working against that failed 3T business model, back in the 3T itself. My improvements to that business model, and rejection of many of its false premises, are now being accepted as being the new wave of business management. We Disco Wavers can be real innovators.

I think so. It's too bad you have that label though; I'd be ashamed to wear it. Aquarian Boomers is a label that means something good; we are visionaries. There are some of us, including some I mentioned in the visionaries of the consciousness revolution thread, that made and are making a difference. It may be worth a thread of its own.

I was making a joke about your views on Xers that obviously whizzed right over your head. I was basing the joke on your obvious and often spoken dislike of Xers. I thought the smiley would make that joke clear, along with the fun little disclaimer I attached after it.

Disclaimer: I have always loved Xers.

And when did I praise either Bill Gates or Steve Jobs, their companies, or their products?

I was making a joke as well "that obviously whizzed right over your head." But then, I know you don't like my jokes.

And your cohorts created the tools that made all the bots that do the things you complain about here; that's the point. Disclaimer: I have always loved disco boomers. And why do you assume "your obvious and often spoken dislike of Xers?" To say that is no joke; you make the same mistake as Danilynn; not reading all I write, but only the responses I make to Xer "often and often-spoken dislike" of boomers. I often say good things about Xers too, and I know some fine Xer folk. I have always pointed out that generational-generalizations can be wrong. I certainly don't like Xer-made popular/rock music, generally-speaking. But that is not because those who make it are Xers (or disco/joneser boomers), but because of the music, pure and simple. And I think that music was part of and a result of the 3T times and of the 3T business and political models.

It is certainly true that Xers here are by far the most likely to earn a place on my ignore list through their behavior (not because they are Xers), are certain (but not the only ones) not to like JB, are the most likely to disagree with me both culturally and politically, and are more likely to be stubborn in their views while accusing boomers of same and more. But it's their decision to engage in that behavior or to hold those views, and I merely point it out that I disagree.

Boomers had a nice hand in creating the 3T too. You have heard of the culture wars, right? That was a Boomer and Silent province, and not one to be proud of either.

Indeed, but what I meant by culture was more the popular arts. But if you also include the corporate productions like TV and movies, boomers also had a big hand in that. And there's no doubt that Xers have joined in on the culture wars, contrary to conventional opinion here. Well, in fact just in our little group, the clearest culture warriors have been Xers.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

I think the model is still there; however I detect an improvement in the music and the approach of the performers. JB and Owl City are genuinely interested in making good music. That makes a difference in what we hear. I don't think the 3T performers had that interest, and if the quality of 4T pop has improved, then that's all I really care about.

3T bands like Pearl Jam, Rage Against the Machine, and Radiohead, to name only three, made much more courageous stands against the music industry than anything made since. That includes JB and Owl City, whose stances are weak sauce compared to any Xer defiance. Your mileage will vary of course.

To reverse your statement to fit my views, I would say the decline of the music business is not relevant to the quality of the music, if the music is good. And some of it is, in my opinion. I know a bit about JB's team, and it is not like what you say.

Since I consider there to have been some great music made in the 3T, and you don't, we will always disagree on that premise. The music industry model is outdated, we do agree on that at least.

I think so. It's too bad you have that label though; I'd be ashamed to wear it.

It's all we have, and I loathed disco music and everything about it during its hey day.

Aquarian Boomers is a label that means something good; we are visionaries. There are some of us, including some I mentioned in the visionaries of the consciousness revolution thread, that made and are making a difference. It may be worth a thread of its own.

We Discos are visionaries too, but in a very different way. Our visions are a bit more worldly, and always include an action plan. That is where the incorrect "all Boomers are the same evil beings" problem arises. The Aquarians and Discos are both visionaries, but approach vision from very different starting points, even with similar goals in mind. The approach and plan to achieve those goals will usually be very different, however. We Discos like to create a list of goals for that overall vision, and establish a plan to achieve them.

I was making a joke as well "that obviously whizzed right over your head." But then, I know you don't like my jokes.

No, the misunderstanding of your jokes happens because there is no perceptible difference between the delivery and content of your alleged jokes and your standard statement. I used to write comedy, so I do know a bit about that challenge. I simply use smileys here to indicate a joke.

And your cohorts created the tools that made all the bots that do the things you complain about here; that's the point.

And you dislike the Aquarian Red Boomers, so not all members of your Aquarian Wave are perfect either. I am hoping for, but not expecting, a "Touche" here, by the way.

Disclaimer: I have always loved disco boomers. And why do you assume "your obvious and often spoken dislike of Xers?" To say that is no joke; you make the same mistake as Danilynn; not reading all I write, but only the responses I make to Xer "often and often-spoken dislike" of boomers. I often say good things about Xers too, and I know some fine Xer folk. I have always pointed out that generational-generalizations can be wrong.

Perhaps it's because I see you in constant state of battle with the Xers and have no other frame of reference from which to draw. I will take you at your word, though. I love Xers and always have done so.

I certainly don't like Xer-made popular/rock music, generally-speaking. But that is not because those who make it are Xers (or disco/joneser boomers), but because of the music, pure and simple. And I think that music was part of and a result of the 3T times and of the 3T business and political models.

I enjoy Xer music, including alternative, punk,post-punk, and grunge. I was never into rap or hip hop, however.

Indeed, but what I meant by culture was more the popular arts. But if you also include the corporate productions like TV and movies, boomers also had a big hand in that. And there's no doubt that Xers have joined in on the culture wars, contrary to conventional opinion here. Well, in fact just in our little group, the clearest culture warriors have been Xers.

Indeed, the culture wars have claimed many combatants and victims. I would prefer that they end. History curves over a long distance toward justice despite regular cyclical setbacks. Once won, however, equality can not be successfully taken away from those who have gained it. That doesn't stop the reactionaries from trying to take those advances away, however.

Originally Posted by Wayneh56

3T bands like Pearl Jam, Rage Against the Machine, and Radiohead, to name only three, made much more courageous stands against the music industry than anything made since. That includes JB and Owl City, whose stances are weak sauce compared to any Xer defiance. Your mileage will vary of course.

Considerably. The quality of their music indicates no courage against the industry. Well, maybe a little?? But that Xers make more "defiance" than JB or Owl City, there's no doubt at all about that one! But no Xer ever gave us a better prayer, or a good time so good!

It's all we have, and I loathed disco music and everything about it during its hey day.

I'm sure a better one could be found. That label exists only on this site, I believe; as does the label "Aquarian boomers." That might be an interesting question, much like what the new adaptives should be called besides "homelanders."

We Discos are visionaries too, but in a very different way. Our visions are a bit more worldly, and always include an action plan. That is where the incorrect "all Boomers are the same evil beings" problem arises. The Aquarians and Discos are both visionaries, but approach vision from very different starting points, even with similar goals in mind. The approach and plan to achieve those goals will usually be very different, however. We Discos like to create a list of goals for that overall vision, and establish a plan to achieve them.

Maybe, but I would just say the vision may be directed a bit lower; more within the realm of possibility. Many Aquarian Boomers have plans to achieve things too, but our goals are such that we will not likely see them realized in our lifetimes. I kid you not, but the theme song at my high school grad ceremony was "To Dream the Impossible Dream." That was a big deal then.

No, the misunderstanding of your jokes happens because there is no perceptible difference between the delivery and content of your alleged jokes and your standard statement. I used to write comedy, so I do know a bit about that challenge. I simply use smileys here to indicate a joke.

No, you just don't like my jokes. But I don't know if that is a joke or not. Maybe just a wry comment.

And you dislike the Aquarian Red Boomers, so not all members of your Aquarian Wave are perfect either. I am hoping for, but not expecting, a "Touche" here, by the way.

OK, you got it.

Perhaps it's because I see you in constant state of battle with the Xers and have no other frame of reference from which to draw. I will take you at your word, though. I love Xers and always have done so.

Just notice that I often qualify or broaden my statements. I love people to the best of my ability, regardless of generation.

I enjoy Xer music, including alternative, punk,post-punk, and grunge.....

Yes, and I don't, and neither of our opinions is a statement about Xers per se, but about the music.

Indeed, the culture wars have claimed many combatants and victims. I would prefer that they end. History curves over a long distance toward justice despite regular cyclical setbacks. Once won, however, equality can not be successfully taken away from those who have gained it. That doesn't stop the reactionaries from trying to take those advances away, however.

Quite agreed with all that.

Originally Posted by Wayneh56

We now know that "Anything JB does" includes the unethical use of fake Twitter followers.

No, because I do not concede that JB or his team engages in that. I mostly just like saying, "I'm proud to be a belieberbot." And being that, in jest, means that I like everything JB does. Now, my tongue is a bit in my cheek, so let the debate between us about my comedy ability continue. We know our tastes do not always agree.

Originally Posted by Wayneh56

Actually, per this conversation, it's the marketing of the Twitter follower numbers that worked on you. The music is irrelevant to the discussion. You wanted to talk numbers, and brag about JB's numbers, so that was the discussion. You didn't like the results of the conversation, so now you are claiming the conversation was about something else entirely.

OK, I guess to the extent that I bragged about his numbers, it worked on me. His numbers are still impressive though, and he's still #1, even accounting for the fakes. Apparently, it seems to me, these fakes are more likely to be the result of robots or cranks than deliberate attempts to raise them. I could be wrong. But like I say, knowing a fair amount about Bieber's team, I don't think they are doing it. Possibly some of his record company folks do it that are not directly connected to him. You say it's unethical to fake twitter numbers, and it probably is, but I don't think it's all that important. There's a lot worse conduct to be concerned about.

If then, as you say, Twitter is so useless, then why would you even care about how JB or any other celeb uses or abuses it? Why are you now resorting to criticism of Twitter that has provided some tremendous engagement and relationship building results for many people and businesses?

Because I find it useless. I don't really care how many people use it or how many follow someone; it would make no difference in my opinion of JB's music or anyone else's. But it does indicate his popularity, and that a lot of folks like him even though you don't And it's fine with me whatever your opinion of him is. I am glad for any expression of opinion about him. It would be nice to hear some positive opinions, but I opened the door to whatever people want to say.

Social media consulting provides me with a living, just as chakras and horoscopes work for your living. I am not knocking your line of business; and never have. That is others here who do that. In fact, I once pointed out that your ideas in those fields were interesting to read.

It is just my opinion of twitter. There is no other implication.

Most doesn't equate to best. Anyway, you are now moving the goalposts again. The original discussion was about his number of Twitter followers, which you brought up as important. I explained them to you. You are now resorting to the old trick of changing the subject and moving the goalposts.

JB and other celebs have fake Twitter followers. They resorted to cheating to pump up their numbers. That is the reality.

Most does not equate to best, quite correct. But the implication of your statements seems to me that the numbers on twitter are to some extent fake, therefore his popularity may be to some extent fake. Or else why bring it up here? But you can't fake all the numbers, all the time. He would have to be faking all four of those indicators, and yet he is #1 on all four of them. I am impressed with his numbers, and they do indicate real popularity and interest. Most observers are impressed, and who wouldn't be? And I don't concede that JB or his team directly are doing any faking. It would be quite a feat to fake enough to be fake #1 on all four of those internet indicators. I rather think that his music and personality exerts such a unique charm and power that those numbers are one result of it. It's called Bieber Fever.

And I like saying it, regardless of the context, because I am proud that my boy is popular, and (more to the point) that the most popular pop star is one I happen to like, and that's such a very very rare thing for me, so if I am changing the subject, tough tweety birds.

And you can't also fake all those screaming girls, all those lines around the block to see him, all those concert sellouts within an hour, all those #1s on the billboard album charts, all those music awards for being most popular.... can you? So you didn't "explain his numbers." He is still #1 on twitter and elsewhere regardless of fakes.

Are you suggesting that fake followers worked for the President's reelection campaign?

If all the celebs have so many fakes, and it's so important to them to fake the numbers, why did Obama resort to so many more fakes than Romney?

The music industry is one that includes your boy whether you care to acknowledge it or not. The 3T contained some fantastic music, and some junk. That is true of every era including the 1T, 2T, and 4T.

I disagree, generally-speaking. Yes, just my opinion. THere was at least some OK pop music in each, I might grant. The 3T contained some fantastic music; yes, but absolutely no "fantastic" music in the pop or rock realm. Not a single piece I have ever heard. Not by my standards of "fantastic" anyway. The 1T, also much less.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

OK, I guess to the extent that I bragged about his numbers, it worked on me. His numbers are still impressive though, and he's still #1, even accounting for the fakes. Apparently, it seems to me, these fakes are more likely to be the result of robots or cranks than deliberate attempts to raise them. I could be wrong. But like I say, knowing a fair amount about Bieber's team, I don't think they are doing it. Possibly some of his record company folks do it that are not directly connected to him. You say it's unethical to fake twitter numbers, and it probably is, but I don't think it's all that important. There's a lot worse conduct to be concerned about.

You have no idea how easy it is to purchase fake Twitter followers. It's a cottage industry. A couple of clicks and payment is all that is needed.

There are fake Twitter followers on JB's record. That is a fact that even you are not denying. All you are doing now is shifting the blame to the record company. Since so many pop stars have fake Twiter followers, I am now fairly certain that it's standard record industry practice to purchase fake followers for their acts. That doesn't absolve his team from culpability as they could speak up, but are not. Neither is JB.

It's what Joni Mitchell so eloquently called "Stoking the star maker machinery behind the popular song".

Because I find it useless. I don't really care how many people use it or how many follow someone; it would make no difference in my opinion of JB's music or anyone else's.

I have over 13000 legitimate followers on Twitter. Just as a matter of useless information

But it does indicate his popularity, and that a lot of folks like him even though you don't And it's fine with me whatever your opinion of him is. I am glad for any expression of opinion about him. It would be nice to hear some positive opinions, but I opened the door to whatever people want to say.

You opened the door for sure. What arrives at that door is where the excitement begins, right?

Most does not equate to best, quite correct. But the implication of your statements seems to me that the numbers on twitter are to some extent fake, therefore his popularity may be to some extent fake. Or else why bring it up here?

You brought up the Twitter numbers in the first place. Otherwise, we would not even be having this conversation. I gave the numbers of his Twitter followers: Real, Fake, and Inactive. Now you are defending, back pedaling, and rationalizing.

Again, to use your term, that door was opened. By you.

But you can't fake all the numbers, all the time. He would have to be faking all four of those indicators, and yet he is #1 on all four of them. I am impressed with his numbers, and they do indicate real popularity and interest. Most observers are impressed, and who wouldn't be? And I don't concede that JB or his team directly are doing any faking. It would be quite a feat to fake enough to be fake #1 on all four of those internet indicators. I rather think that his music and personality exerts such a unique charm and power that those numbers are one result of it. It's called Bieber Fever.

Now you are returning to moving the goalposts.

As a matter of interest, you can also have bots provide Facebook likes, or live people from India do manual likes, on any Facebook page. I am not saying that the JB Facebook likes are fake, as neither of us knows for certain. I am just pointing out the gaming aspects that are available out there to boost numbers.

As you must now be aware, I know much more about social media than you ever suspected when you mentioned JB's Twitter numbers, as if they were Holy Writ. You now agree that they are no such thing.

And you can't also fake all those screaming girls, all those lines around the block to see him, all those concert sellouts within an hour,

It was done for the Beatles to create Beatlemania. Hire, place, and let the screaming begin.

all those #1s on the billboard album charts,

If you only knew how #1s in music and books were created. I know personally a former record industry executive who negotiated Billboard #1s for his acts. They had nothing to do with actual numbers of sales that is for sure. For books, to add a bit to the topic, if you happen to know which book stores are considered for the best seller lists, you simply go to that store group and purchase their copies. Bingo. Numero Uno. You can really game Amazon's numbers too. I have seen it done in real time during several real book experiments.

all those music awards for being most popular....

I have always considered all music awards to be worthless. I have never seen any reason to change my mind on that either.

can you? So you didn't "explain his numbers." He is still #1 on twitter and elsewhere regardless of fakes.

You do insist on loving the fakes, scams, and lack of ethics. That is your right I suppose. I have explained the numbers. You are disregarding the explanation.

I disagree, generally-speaking. Yes, just my opinion. THere was at least some OK pop music in each, I might grant. The 3T contained some fantastic music; yes, but absolutely no "fantastic" music in the pop or rock realm. Not a single piece I have ever heard. Not by my standards of "fantastic" anyway. The 1T, also much less.

Well, then we have obviously have very different standards. You listen to JB. I will not.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

No, because I do not concede that JB or his team engages in that. I mostly just like saying, "I'm proud to be a belieberbot." And being that, in jest, means that I like everything JB does. Now, my tongue is a bit in my cheek, so let the debate between us about my comedy ability continue. We know our tastes do not always agree.

Your comedic delivery needs a lot of work.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

I'm sure a better one could be found. That label exists only on this site, I believe; as does the label "Aquarian boomers." That might be an interesting question, much like what the new adaptives should be called besides "homelanders."

I would prefer another label but Disco too. I never liked Disco or anything related to it.

Maybe, but I would just say the vision may be directed a bit lower; more within the realm of possibility. Many Aquarian Boomers have plans to achieve things too, but our goals are such that we will not likely see them realized in our lifetimes. I kid you not, but the theme song at my high school grad ceremony was "To Dream the Impossible Dream." That was a big deal then.

I happen to like the song, just as a matter of interest.

Our Disco Wave visions may be "lower", as you put it, but we do look at both the present and the future. We like a plan to achieve goals in the present, and also a plan for the much longer term vision. We go Vision then Plan then Implementation for the near term. And Vision then Plan then possible Implementation for the longer term. Note the concern with making those dreams a reality. We don't simply dream the impossible dream, but we plan to make the impossible, a reality.

No, you just don't like my jokes. But I don't know if that is a joke or not. Maybe just a wry comment.

We do need to work on your comedy.

OK, you got it.

Thanks. Appreciated.

Quite agreed with all that.

See, we do agree on many things. Okay, now I am starting to worry.

Originally Posted by Wayneh56

See, we do agree on many things. Okay, now I am starting to worry.

worry you might therefore have to take another listen to JB? I understand how that may be some cause for concern for you

Originally Posted by Wayneh56

You have no idea how easy it is to purchase fake Twitter followers. It's a cottage industry. A couple of clicks and payment is all that is needed.

There are fake Twitter followers on JB's record. That is a fact that even you are not denying. All you are doing now is shifting the blame to the record company. Since so many pop stars have fake Twiter followers, I am now fairly certain that it's standard record industry practice to purchase fake followers for their acts. That doesn't absolve his team from culpability as they could speak up, but are not. Neither is JB.

My hunch is they don't know much about the fakes or what causes them. Another factor is probably that the fans try to boost the numbers in order to boost their favorite artists. And it works both ways. I have my suspicions about the number of dislikes on the "Baby" video.

You brought up the Twitter numbers in the first place. Otherwise, we would not even be having this conversation. I gave the numbers of his Twitter followers: Real, Fake, and Inactive. Now you are defending, back pedaling, and rationalizing.

That's OK, I think they can be defended, back-pedalled and rationalized.

You opened the door for sure. What arrives at that door is where the excitement begins, right?

I suppose. I am much more excited by JB's music, his personality, and Bieber Fever, than by the negative comments people have made here. I think you guys are missing out. I don't know how exciting that is. But it is somewhat stimulating to engage in discussion with folks on a forum, and I still don't know a better forum than this one, with all its many flaws.

As you must now be aware, I know much more about social media than you ever suspected when you mentioned JB's Twitter numbers, as if they were Holy Writ. You now agree that they are no such thing.

No, but I suspected as much, since I know how inaccurate some of these numbers can be. At least I know for example how phoney the "number of visits to a web site" can be, since they are mostly robots or references to pictures people click on, rather than actual visits.

It was done for the Beatles to create Beatlemania. Hire, place, and let the screaming begin.

No, beatlemania was real; I was there. Aquarian boomers all loved the beatles and hated the blue meanies, all you Xers

If you only knew how #1s in music and books were created. I know personally a former record industry executive who negotiated Billboard #1s for his acts. They had nothing to do with actual numbers of sales that is for sure. For books, to add a bit to the topic, if you happen to know which book stores are considered for the best seller lists, you simply go to that store group and purchase their copies. Bingo. Numero Uno. You can really game Amazon's numbers too. I have seen it done in real time during several real book experiments.

If you really think all the indicators I mentioned were entirely faked, I have some statues in China to sell you. I know what billboard numbers are based on, more or less; many different factors.

I have always considered all music awards to be worthless. I have never seen any reason to change my mind on that either.

I consider them a pretty good indicator of popularity and of regard by bigwigs and pundits in the industry who like artists that sell well.

You do insist on loving the fakes, scams, and lack of ethics. That is your right I suppose. I have explained the numbers. You are disregarding the explanation.

I love JB. I am proud he is popular. Your adjustments to account for fakes does not change them in their overall indication that he is popular; maybe the most popular, music artist today. He is popular because many people like his music and his personality. His popularity and his music are not fake.

Well, then we have obviously have very different standards. You listen to JB. I will not.

Yes, that indicates how much higher my standards are.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Yes, that indicates how much higher my standards are.

Your humour still needs work. I must say. It is a bit too arrogant and based on putting the other person down. Of course, you could make an act out of arrogance, as it would feed into the Xer stereotype of the Aquarian Boomer. It might work as a routine, but it would be challenging to pull off effectively.

If I may make a suggestion to improve your comedy routine, though, put down humour worked for Don Rickles. It usually looks bad when utilized by anyone else. It can lead to very hostile audiences.

The Silent style of comedy was softer, gentler, and based more on self deprecation. Obviously, that style is not going to work for you. We will arrive at something that works for you though.

Originally Posted by Wayneh56

Your humour still needs work. I must say. It is a bit too arrogant and based on putting the other person down. Of course, you could make an act out of arrogance, as it would feed into the Xer stereotype of the Aquarian Boomer. It might work as a routine, but it would be challenging to pull off effectively.

If I may make a suggestion to improve your comedy routine, though, put down humour worked for Don Rickles. It usually looks bad when utilized by anyone else. It can lead to very hostile audiences.

The Silent style of comedy was softer, gentler, and based more on self deprecation. Obviously, that style is not going to work for you. We will arrive at something that works for you though.

Meanwhile, you can also take my statement about my higher standards more literally, if you choose. You started it though, since your put down of me for liking JB and disliking 3T pop is not effectively masked by using the word "different." So I replied. I'm not offended though; are you? How would you have reacted if I had not added the wink?

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Meanwhile, you can also take my statement about my higher standards more literally, if you choose. You started it though, since your put down of me for liking JB and disliking 3T pop is not effectively masked by using the word "different." So I replied. I'm not offended though; are you? How would you have reacted if I had not added the wink?

My initial criticism of JB was not made in jest. I honestly couldn't and can't stand his music. That "put down" was not intended as comedy at the start of this conversation, so it was not put down humour. That said, our conversation is now evolving into something much more comedic and fun. You have to admit there is some enjoyment in the back and forth banter too.

We are even finding agreement on other topics on the forum. That was the basis of my joke about being scared: That we actually agreed in other areas. Mainly political. It had nothing to do with JB or music. We have some areas of agreement in music, but many areas that do not agree. I think of it as our own Venn diagram of music.