Originally Posted by Eric the Green

At first I didn't think I liked his new song with the famous DJ Skrillex. btw Skrilliex was an answer on Jeopardy yesterday;

Apparently the producers of Jeopardy are lacking in imagination.

that's a neat coincidence. Listening to the song again, I noticed once again the amazing melodic inventiveness and ingenuity that Justin brings to his songs. Like the ones from Journals, this one doesn't blow over the teenieboppers to top the charts like Baby or Boyfriend. But it proves again that Justin is exactly what Susan and many others here say he's not: an artiste. Very exquisite and sensitive songwriter (although he always works with others), and subtle singer too.

Pisces : Of, by , and for the fishes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_(poker)

No, not the same Biebs. He changes every year; that's amazing too. I like the new model so far. Now let's see if he comes up with a new album.

I'm waiting for the next clown car model.

And whether as a guest on a show, or in a video that makes fun of him or knocks him (or even spreads some lies about him like the above), or even when he does do stupid stuff, no-one today is more funny or entertaining to watch.

Without a doubt, I totally agree.

http://phys.org/news/2014-12-theory-men-idiots.html

Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62

Apparently the producers of Jeopardy are lacking in imagination.

Does it take much "imagination" to come up with answers and questions on every topic under the Sun?

Pisces : Of, by , and for the fishes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_(poker)

Bieber is a Pisces, and rather typical in fact. That's why he co-wrote and sang "Pray" and is very generous to good causes. He's a good guy, if anyone is.

I'm waiting for the next clown car model.

Why? This one has barely been rolled out! I wonder if his comedy central appearance is on you tube; I'll have to look

Without a doubt, I totally agree.

http://phys.org/news/2014-12-theory-men-idiots.html

Bieber is a typical young male idiot.

Ah, here's some good excerpts!

Justin Bieber (b. 1994) is still one of the 3 youngest entertainers listed in the American oriented "World Almanac" for 2014; he was not listed in 2010. The only ones younger are his friends Jaden Smith b. 1998 (who was in his Never Say Never video) and his sister Willow, who is one of only three living entertainers listed with their birth year written out (2000).

The oldest is Luise Rainer, born in 1910.

The oldest listed among entertainers of the past is Sarah Siddons (1757-1831) who may be most famous for being the subject of a famous painting. The only other listed born in the 18th century is controversial Shakespearean actor Edmund Kean (1787), and the only others born before Mrs. Siddons died were his son Charles (1811) and Mrs. Charles (1806); and P.T. Barnum (1810-1891). The Booths, Edwin and John Wilkes, born in the 1830s, were also listed; famous for what John did.

I guess it's not too surprising, but our home town hero in the NBA finals, Mr. Steff Curry, reminds me a lot of JB. The way he moves, his cool, his looks, his age (well, 6 years older), his Christian faith, his zodiac sign, his smaller size than those big guys. Sometimes he's like a miracle man who does amazing things. Just like JB, who you may remember beat Michael Jordan in a celeb basketball game. In fact President Obama mentioned Bieber had beat one of his basketball friends in such a game a while back, remember that?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Curry

Justin Bieber opens up about his new music coming up, Floyd, and his new puppy! It sounds good; we'll see!



Where Are U Now live at Wango Tango (this performance mentioned in the video)

He used to be called a girly boy, gay, etc. I said he would be a hunk. Evidently the editors of Men's Health already agree (the video content is repeated, you need only watch the first half or so, if you watch it ) He was on the cover; I missed it!
https://youtu.be/JzDarwe7FJg

I like the new model!

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Ah, here's some good excerpts!

The fact that Bieber is already being roasted indicates his career is over. Thank Stalin for that. That said, the first joke of the roast is spot on all his fans are either in middle school or required to stand at least 500 feet away from one.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Justin Bieber opens up about his new music coming up, Floyd, and his new puppy! It sounds good; we'll see!



Where Are U Now live at Wango Tango (this performance mentioned in the video)

He used to be called a girly boy, gay, etc. I said he would be a hunk. Evidently the editors of Men's Health already agree (the video content is repeated, you need only watch the first half or so, if you watch it ) He was on the cover; I missed it!
https://youtu.be/JzDarwe7FJg

I like the new model!

Hanging out in South FLA has got him into Cubano style.

I've just always wanted to reply to this thread. I totally can't stand Justin Bieber. Probably mostly just personal taste. However, does it count that I adore, absolutely adore One Direction? (Also, some really talented girl groups out there. Little Mix has a very ABC Family kind of vibe that I think is aimed right square at young Homelanders. Fifth Harmony is also good, but seem a bit more sexy in their presentation, which is typical of the female artists these days.) So anyway, just my quick take.

Originally Posted by Keithette

I've just always wanted to reply to this thread. I totally can't stand Justin Bieber. Probably mostly just personal taste. However, does it count that I adore, absolutely adore One Direction? (Also, some really talented girl groups out there. Little Mix has a very ABC Family kind of vibe that I think is aimed right square at young Homelanders. Fifth Harmony is also good, but seem a bit more sexy in their presentation, which is typical of the female artists these days.) So anyway, just my quick take.

Oh, a new poster, I was so hoping for a sensitive response to JB. Oh well, this site has failed again.... where are the beliebers? You've heard "Pray," I take it? But yes, I like 1D; 1D is good too, and they have gotten better. I'm not familiar with the girl groups, so no comment there.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Oh, a new poster, I was so hoping for a sensitive response to JB. Oh well, this site has failed again.... where are the beliebers? You've heard "Pray," I take it? But yes, I like 1D; 1D is good too, and they have gotten better. I'm not familiar with the girl groups, so no comment there.

It really comes down to personal taste. I find 1D's group dynamic preferable to Bieber as the one guy. There is a tension to a group dynamic that gives it more, richness for me.

I think that 1D is even more fascinating to me since Zayn's departure. All five (including Zayn) have strengths and weaknesses. Harry has outsized charisma, which frankly, blows away the other four in that dept. Liam has talent in every area. He and Harry carry the shows. (I think the reason that he's not as popular, is frankly, that he isn't always as photogenic as the others, and also, because he always has a girlfriend) Niall is the perfect enigma, nobody really knows anything about him, but he's always smiling. Louis gets criticized for his voice, but is all about the personality. Zayn has the best voice in the group, and the most photogenic, but his reserved personality often lead to less stage presence. A fascinating bunch. The media fixates on Harry, but at least three of these guys are going to be significant in the music industry for the rest of their lives, IMHO. (Harry is one, Zayn another, and I think the third will be Liam. The other two, I'm not sure about, but I believe whatever they endeavor, they're going to be significant in.)

Those two girl groups are also starting to really get attention. Both of them are X-Factor creations, same as 1D. I think Fifth Harmony in particular is starting to get a lot of attention via their "Worth It" single. Most of them are still teenagers. Little Mix has strong connections to 1D as one of the Members, Perrie Edwards is engaged to Zayn. It will be interesting to see how their "Black Magic" single does.

(Anyway, this is neither here nor there, but there is an online astrologer who has gone into great depth on 1D, and each of the members, and I have been astonished since I discovered her recently. She called Zayn's departure in January. And many other things. )

Anyway, I'm way too old for this stuff!! I'm an early X'er WTF am I doing. All my friends and family are like, "What happened?" LOL

Originally Posted by Keithette

It really comes down to personal taste. I find 1D's group dynamic preferable to Bieber as the one guy. There is a tension to a group dynamic that gives it more, richness for me.

I think that 1D is even more fascinating to me since Zayn's departure. All five (including Zayn) have strengths and weaknesses. Harry has outsized charisma, which frankly, blows away the other four in that dept. Liam has talent in every area. He and Harry carry the shows. (I think the reason that he's not as popular, is frankly, that he isn't always as photogenic as the others, and also, because he always has a girlfriend) Niall is the perfect enigma, nobody really knows anything about him, but he's always smiling. Louis gets criticized for his voice, but is all about the personality. Zayn has the best voice in the group, and the most photogenic, but his reserved personality often lead to less stage presence. A fascinating bunch. The media fixates on Harry, but at least three of these guys are going to be significant in the music industry for the rest of their lives, IMHO. (Harry is one, Zayn another, and I think the third will be Liam. The other two, I'm not sure about, but I believe whatever they endeavor, they're going to be significant in.)

Those two girl groups are also starting to really get attention. Both of them are X-Factor creations, same as 1D. I think Fifth Harmony in particular is starting to get a lot of attention via their "Worth It" single. Most of them are still teenagers. Little Mix has strong connections to 1D as one of the Members, Perrie Edwards is engaged to Zayn. It will be interesting to see how their "Black Magic" single does.

(Anyway, this is neither here nor there, but there is an online astrologer who has gone into great depth on 1D, and each of the members, and I have been astonished since I discovered her recently. She called Zayn's departure in January. And many other things. )

Anyway, I'm way too old for this stuff!! I'm an early X'er WTF am I doing. All my friends and family are like, "What happened?" LOL

Do you happen to have tweens living in your household? Back when my daughter was in upper elementary school and early middle school, I knew much more about High School Musical, Justin Timberlake, Gwen Stefani, Black Eyed Peas, and Kelly Clarkson than a 50-year-old in the mid-2000s had any right to know.

Originally Posted by Keithette

It really comes down to personal taste. I find 1D's group dynamic preferable to Bieber as the one guy. There is a tension to a group dynamic that gives it more, richness for me.

That's fine. Remember though that at least until recently 1D were nothing more than singers, and fairly average ones at that. Bieber helps to write and arrange/produce his songs as well as sing and dance them; sometimes they are entirely his own. And his are, overall, the best songs today, although far from the only good songs today. He is amazing in that everything he releases is good stuff. And quite an entertaining personality, including everything he does But I agree, 1D are among the good pop artists emerging today, and they do good songs. The music itself is really the only important consideration. And although Bieber is a solo artist, it is fascinating how many other artists he gets to work with him, and his deliberate preference for working with black artists.

I think that 1D is even more fascinating to me since Zayn's departure. All five (including Zayn) have strengths and weaknesses. Harry has outsized charisma, which frankly, blows away the other four in that dept. Liam has talent in every area. He and Harry carry the shows. (I think the reason that he's not as popular, is frankly, that he isn't always as photogenic as the others, and also, because he always has a girlfriend) Niall is the perfect enigma, nobody really knows anything about him, but he's always smiling. Louis gets criticized for his voice, but is all about the personality. Zayn has the best voice in the group, and the most photogenic, but his reserved personality often lead to less stage presence. A fascinating bunch. The media fixates on Harry, but at least three of these guys are going to be significant in the music industry for the rest of their lives, IMHO. (Harry is one, Zayn another, and I think the third will be Liam. The other two, I'm not sure about, but I believe whatever they endeavor, they're going to be significant in.)

I think Niall is the only one who plays an instrument. That alone makes him the most-talented and most-likely to be significant in the music industry in future years. I don't know what Zayn is doing since he left; that doesn't seem like a good career move. But yes they are a fascinating bunch, and their development is good.

(Anyway, this is neither here nor there, but there is an online astrologer who has gone into great depth on 1D, and each of the members, and I have been astonished since I discovered her recently. She called Zayn's departure in January. And many other things. )

Good show! Yes, I know at least that they have powerful charts linking up to an important alignment that makes them and their cohorts important.

Anyway, I'm way too old for this stuff!! I'm an early X'er WTF am I doing. All my friends and family are like, "What happened?" LOL

Sure, me too. But hey, some good pop music. It is an interesting change that has happened, so I don't care. And I am looking forward to Bieber's new work, already done according to him.

It has been a long time since I could point to songs I genuinely like on the pop scene. But Bieber's songs like Pray, and Good Time, Happy, Best Song Ever, Rude, The Best Day of My Life, and some others floating around, are good to hear. Pop punk is a good genre too. The upbeat aspect of millennial pop is something S&H predicted, and it's a welcome change of pace.

Edit: checked out Fifth Harmony. Sexy, yes. Doing very well. Some cool rhythms in the music. I'm kinda like the guy at the desk in their Worth It video. Not quite sure whether I'm interested......

Little Mix had a previous hit called "Wings." pretty good, maybe, I think.....

Most of my favorites from this era so far have been by male artists. The girls don't yet measure up anywhere near to the great sixties girl groups and solos. But, will keep an ear out

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

That's fine. Remember though that at least until recently 1D were nothing more than singers, and fairly average ones at that. Bieber helps to write and arrange/produce his songs as well as sing and dance them; sometimes they are entirely his own. And his are, overall, the best songs today, although far from the only good songs today. He is amazing in that everything he releases is good stuff. And quite an entertaining personality, including everything he does But I agree, 1D are among the good pop artists emerging today, and they do good songs. The music itself is really the only important consideration. And although Bieber is a solo artist, it is fascinating how many other artists he gets to work with him, and his deliberate preference for working with black artists.


I think Niall is the only one who plays an instrument. That alone makes him the most-talented and most-likely to be significant in the music industry in future years.

You sound just like my Boomer Brother-in-Law in regards to the insturments. As I've told him, playing instruments is not the be all and end all. All five members do, in fact know how to play instruments, both piano and guitar. They don't perform with them, because that isn't their gig. There gig mostly involves interacting with the audience and each other. It's a different gig then us old folks are used to. But that doesn't invalidate it, and their audience loves it so I'm not going to argue. I understand that is a matter of opinion though.

I don't know what Zayn is doing since he left; that doesn't seem like a good career move. But yes they are a fascinating bunch, and their development is good.

Zayn's move was actually a good strategy. Though, perhaps not an intentional one. I think he was legit stressed out. But before, nobody knew his name. Now, a lot more people do. And he has a lot of assets to bring to the table, including a golden voice. I gather, though that he's under a non-compete clause with his former bandmates that lasts for two years. So, probably no solo work until 2017. When he does release solo material, it will sell. His problem will probably be that he'll have to tour to make money, and he clearly has issues with that. But he has been keeping his name in the entertainment press. A couple of weeks ago, for example, he was the rage of Paris fashion week, seen with people like Kanye West.

Good show! Yes, I know at least that they have powerful charts linking up to an important alignment that makes them and their cohorts important.

She mentioned a Uranus/Neptune Conjunction in Capricorn which would give people born in those early 90's cohorts extra creativity and inspiration. Is that what you're talking about? (I have a nephew born in that time frame. He is talented on drums and cello, but only in comparison to the rest of the family, who aren't talented at all!) Ephemeral Arc if you ever want to look her up.

Sure, me too. But hey, some good pop music. It is an interesting change that has happened, so I don't care. And I am looking forward to Bieber's new work, already done according to him.

I'm in full agreement. This era of music is very different, and in many ways, kind of an affront to people who came of age with the Beatles, by which I mean my friends and family who are generally Boom/X. More than a few have criticized current music as inauthentic. But we live in a different world than the 60's and 70's now where we have social media and TV talent shows. So why should we be surprised when talented young people use these tools to "make it". (Who knows, maybe in 1963 John, Paul, George and Ringo would have gone on X-Factor, instead of Hamburg if they had the option...) Maybe that's good, maybe it's bad. Maybe it's neutral.

I try to keep all of it in perspective to the differences of music in a 2T vs. a 4T. Music has a different role now. And people our age are not, ultimately going to be the one's who decide it's legacy. I think about what my Lawrence Welk loving grandparents probably thought of the Beatles back in 1963, and how shocked they would have been they known that their great grandchildren would know all the Beatles songs fifty years later. Last 4T was big bands and torch singers. Now it's One Direction, Taylor Swift and Justin Bieber. I can actually see this, and appreciate that a pendulum arc has swung. (History repeats, but never the same way...)

It has been a long time since I could point to songs I genuinely like on the pop scene. But Bieber's songs like Pray, and Good Time, Happy, Best Song Ever, Rude, The Best Day of My Life, and some others floating around, are good to hear. Pop punk is a good genre too. The upbeat aspect of millennial pop is something S&H predicted, and it's a welcome change of pace.

Yes! For me it's Girl Almighty, and No Control right now. I should also mention Ed Shereen, because Thinking Out Loud is stuck in my brain.

Edit: checked out Fifth Harmony. Sexy, yes. Doing very well. Some cool rhythms in the music. I'm kinda like the guy at the desk in their Worth It video. Not quite sure whether I'm interested......

Agree, but I do like them. The over-sexualization in general for female acts is ridiculous right now. I was watching an awards show recently, and the female acts, such as Ariane Grande were, ummm, borderline.

Little Mix had a previous hit called "Wings." pretty good, maybe, I think.....

You should watch the video for their song Salute - it takes girl power very literally. I like them better than 5H, but will see I guess.

Most of my favorites from this era so far have been by male artists. The girls don't yet measure up anywhere near to the great sixties girl groups and solos. But, will keep an ear out

I like most of Katy Perry's songs. They are catchy, and I find myself singing along. And I think Taylor Swift is a very impressive role model for young girls. Lorde is kind of interesting. Rhianna is OK. No comment on the rest.

Originally Posted by Keithette

Zayn's move was actually a good strategy. Though, perhaps not an intentional one. I think he was legit stressed out. But before, nobody knew his name. Now, a lot more people do. And he has a lot of assets to bring to the table, including a golden voice. I gather, though that he's under a non-compete clause with his former bandmates that lasts for two years. So, probably no solo work until 2017. When he does release solo material, it will sell. His problem will probably be that he'll have to tour to make money, and he clearly has issues with that. But he has been keeping his name in the entertainment press. A couple of weeks ago, for example, he was the rage of Paris fashion week, seen with people like Kanye West.

Doesn't sound like good strategy to me at all. But I wish him well.

She mentioned a Uranus/Neptune Conjunction in Capricorn which would give people born in those early 90's cohorts extra creativity and inspiration. Is that what you're talking about?

Exactly. And folks like the 1D artists and Bieber have strong connections to this conjunction from the other planets in their chart, which makes it more significant for them.

I like most of Katy Perry's songs. They are catchy, and I find myself singing along. And I think Taylor Swift is a very impressive role model for young girls. Lorde is kind of interesting. Rhianna is OK. No comment on the rest.

All mediocre at best, in my opinion. But maybe, some potential there. I do think a lot of pop is inauthentic and over-sexed today, especially the girls. But there are some jewels amid the fluff and puff, and borderline cases. It's a matter of taste, and we'll see where it goes.

I hope you listened to and know "Pray;" it really is an unappreciated gem here, and IMO the best pop or rock song of the last 42 years.

(click on my signature line link for the second half of the song; you can hear the whole song too in that video)

It is interesting by the way, that I can often walk around stores in my neighborhood and see young folks hanging around, or sit in a coffee house with people of all ages, while music from 40 or 50 years ago is playing. Young people today still prefer to listen to their own pop music, but they hear a lot of older stuff and they know it. In say, 1970, how many songs from the 1920s would have been playing on radios in stores, or featured in TV commercials or on quiz shows? I don't remember ever listening to music from 45 or 50 years ago as if it were hip and engaging, or hearing it around town or anything like that. At the most, I could have tuned in to "middle of the road" stations, as they called them then, and hear songs from, say, 15 or 20 years ago, or newer stuff by the crooner-type artists that were popular then. But 45 years ago? It just didn't happen. It was buried and dead.

It just shows how the songs from the Awakening years have become truly classic, just like the classical music that I listened to when I was growing up. That's something different too about our times. And it applies to TV as well. Nowadays, the best stuff you can watch on TV is provided by classic TV networks and consists of shows from 30-60 years ago. It is still so much better than current stuff. But it's good to hear at least some pop music that has at least a small chance of being heard 40 years from now.

Originally Posted by 92man

No, lol. He also looks like a girl...

hahaha true, he looks like ELLEN

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Oh, a new poster, I was so hoping for a sensitive response to JB. Oh well, this site has failed again.... where are the beliebers? You've heard "Pray," I take it? But yes, I like 1D; 1D is good too, and they have gotten better. I'm not familiar with the girl groups, so no comment there.

probably a lot of people despise him because of his arrogance and how full of himself and lawless he is. He also was extremely insensitive towards Anne Frank. To me, he appears like a little child akin to Miley Cyrus who have yet to grow up and mature, so I cannot take their music seriously if they have not matured themselves, and perhaps others feel the same too regarding him and also Miley. However, if you like him, more power to you. I loved Leanne Rhymes and Mandy moore, who are fellow early millennials who never got in trouble or acted like obnoxious children.

I like Alice In Chains.

Originally Posted by Taramarie

probably a lot of people despise him because of his arrogance and how full of himself and lawless he is. He also was extremely insensitive towards Anne Frank. To me, he appears like a little child akin to Miley Cyrus who have yet to grow up and mature, so I cannot take their music seriously if they have not matured themselves, and perhaps others feel the same too regarding him and also Miley. However, if you like him, more power to you. I loved Leanne Rhymes and Mandy moore, who are fellow early millennials who never got in trouble or acted like obnoxious children.

I'll admit it: your first sentence describes what paints Bieber in a negative light to me (though I think Miley Cyrus isn't the right comparison). However, before Eric jumps on me, when it comes to music it's far less what's "good or bad" and more "what you like or dislike"--and Bieber's musical success isn't a complete accident or anything. There have been plenty of popular and successful musicians who have done far worse things than anything Bieber's done.

Originally Posted by Bronco80

I'll admit it: your first sentence describes what paints Bieber in a negative light to me (though I think Miley Cyrus isn't the right comparison). However, before Eric jumps on me, when it comes to music it's far less what's "good or bad" and more "what you like or dislike"--and Bieber's musical success isn't a complete accident or anything. There have been plenty of popular and successful musicians who have done far worse things than anything Bieber's done.

true but it is the response now to what younger folk are doing. It feels to me like back in the older days that was the thing, to be rebellious. That is how i see it anyway. I expect more from my generation because well as my mother says, we taught you better than that. He should realize he is looked up to and that is some responsibility on his shoulders. Just my opinion anyway. Just like how i saw Bill Clinton as a child with the sex scandal. I even then as a preteener, i thought exactly the same.

Originally Posted by Taramarie

true but it is the response now to what younger folk are doing. It feels to me like back in the older days that was the thing, to be rebellious. That is how i see it anyway. I expect more from my generation because well as my mother says, we taught you better than that. He should realize he is looked up to and that is some responsibility on his shoulders. Just my opinion anyway. Just like how i saw Bill Clinton as a child with the sex scandal. I even then as a preteener, i thought exactly the same.

I'm not really big on the role model thing with famous people. They are fallible like any other humans, and if anything, I'd use them as examples on how people shouldn't be hero worshipped. But I could also see that as being a big gap between Nomads and Civics, I guess time will tell.

I also think that the behavior in question matters as well. Drag racing on public streets while drunk can severely imperil the safety of others. Getting a blowjob from someone other than your wife imperils jack shit, and it never should have been a matter for anyone to deal with but Bill and Hillary. I think this is why I'm also not down with much of the criticism of Miley Cyrus because it smells to me of good ol' fashioned slutshaming.

Originally Posted by Taramarie

probably a lot of people despise him because of his arrogance and how full of himself and lawless he is. He also was extremely insensitive towards Anne Frank. To me, he appears like a little child akin to Miley Cyrus who have yet to grow up and mature, so I cannot take their music seriously if they have not matured themselves, and perhaps others feel the same too regarding him and also Miley. However, if you like him, more power to you. I loved Leanne Rhymes and Mandy moore, who are fellow early millennials who never got in trouble or acted like obnoxious children.

Ah, so Bieber is a "big no" because of his behavior, not his music. But I am just considering his music. I like it. And I still wonder if you have heard his best work, like "Pray." It is quite sensitive, and excellent musically, and it mirrors his genuine interest in people in need.

Remember too that his behavior was a phase that lasted for a year or so. Before that, he was hailed as a good boy, and (falsely) knocked because he was a girly boy. Now, he is more macho. He wanted to prove his "street cred." He is also upfront about his past mistakes, and he isn't making them now. All along, he has done a lot of good too, and no-one should knock his generosity and promotion of good causes. And his misbehavior is frequently exaggerated. He did not test as drunk in that incident in Florida, and he did it at night with his friends blocking off the streets, and going fast only in areas where there were no cars. He had the money to do it, so he wanted to drive a big fancy car.

Much too much is made of the Anne Frank incident. Maybe it was not the most appropriate thing to say, that she might have been a belieber. But after all, he was right, and it's also kind of charming to think that she might have been a Bieber fan if she had been a young girl in 2012. And, is that really such an insult for him to say? You can say it was "all about him, not Anne." He was "arrogant," OK. Full of himself. But you can't say that he insulted Anne.

I really like this one:
https://youtu.be/JzDarwe7FJg

(the second half is a repeat of the first)

I didn't even know about the Anne Frank thing. Now that I do, that's hardly a sin. In fact, from my memory in reading her diary, if she was a Millie, Bieber may have very well been right. Frank may have been quite a mature teenager, but she was still a teenager nonetheless.

But to confirm, while I may criticize Bieber's behavior, you won't see me criticize his (or anyone else's) music, because it's a non-falsifiable claim.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Ah, so Bieber is a "big no" because of his behavior, not his music. But I am just considering his music. I like it. And I still wonder if you have heard his best work, like "Pray." It is quite sensitive, and excellent musically, and it mirrors his genuine interest in people in need.

Remember too that his behavior was a phase that lasted for a year or so. Before that, he was hailed as a good boy, and (falsely) knocked because he was a girly boy. Now, he is more macho. He wanted to prove his "street cred." He is also upfront about his past mistakes, and he isn't making them now. All along, he has done a lot of good too, and no-one should knock his generosity and promotion of good causes. And his misbehavior is frequently exaggerated. He did not test as drunk in that incident in Florida, and he did it at night with his friends blocking off the streets, and going fast only in areas where there were no cars. He had the money to do it, so he wanted to drive a big fancy car.

Much too much is made of the Anne Frank incident. Maybe it was not the most appropriate thing to say, that she might have been a belieber. But after all, he was right, and it's also kind of charming to think that she might have been a Bieber fan if she had been a young girl in 2012. And, is that really such an insult for him to say? You can say it was "all about him, not Anne." He was "arrogant," OK. Full of himself. But you can't say that he insulted Anne.

I really like this one:
https://youtu.be/JzDarwe7FJg

(the second half is a repeat of the first)

For his behaviour and his 'music' for me. I get more meaning out of groups like Disturbed than him if you like meaning in songs. The are left wing too as i see a left winger in you. But it is his behaviour that is the initial turn off for me. Since Bill Clinton i have wished for people do act out what they preach. I know they are just singers, but it is something i look for regardless and to see people and not just bieber doing silly things really is a let down as they are looked to by younger folk as a 'hero' and a sort of role model. I looked up to britney spears in my early teens till she started acting up. I still listened to her music but i could not respect her as a person.

Originally Posted by Taramarie

For his behaviour and his 'music' for me. I get more meaning out of groups like Disturbed than him if you like meaning in songs. The are left wing too as i see a left winger in you. But it is his behaviour that is the initial turn off for me. Since Bill Clinton i have wished for people do act out what they preach. I know they are just singers, but it is something i look for regardless and to see people and not just bieber doing silly things really is a let down as they are looked to by younger folk as a 'hero' and a sort of role model. I looked up to britney spears in my early teens till she started acting up. I still listened to her music but i could not respect her as a person.

Yay, another Disturbed fan!