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Thread: The Media and Us - Page 6







Post#126 at 05-09-2004 02:32 PM by HopefulCynic68 [at joined Sep 2001 #posts 9,412]
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Re: Lambaste

Quote Originally Posted by Bob Butler 54

I regret that the US forces on the ground and the US politicians supporting them will now have a more difficult job ahead of them. However, I would place the blame not on CBS, but on the US forces on the ground and the US politicians supporting them. If democracy is to work, if civilian control of the military is to be real, the military cannot be allowed to operate in secrecy.
In order to function effectively, the military must very often be able to work in secrecy. This is an inescapable fact of life.

Which is why the military is necessarily so dependent on a culture of honesty, and why whoever was involved in this is going to have to be dealt with harshly.







Post#127 at 05-09-2004 02:37 PM by HopefulCynic68 [at joined Sep 2001 #posts 9,412]
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Re: Military Cult

Quote Originally Posted by Mike Alexander '59
Quote Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68
What were they?
Any other option you would reject out of hand so there is no point even discussing it.
In short, you don't have any either. As I suspected.

But you're right that any option, in real-world terms, had to be something we could implement either unilaterally, or independent of the decaying UN/NATO system. Europe simply was not aboard, no matter what.







Post#128 at 05-09-2004 02:37 PM by HopefulCynic68 [at joined Sep 2001 #posts 9,412]
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Re: Military Cult

Quote Originally Posted by Mike Alexander '59
Quote Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68
What were they?
Any other option you would reject out of hand so there is no point even discussing it.
In short, you don't have any either. As I suspected.

But you're right that any option, in real-world terms, had to be something we could implement either unilaterally, or independent of the decaying UN/NATO system. Europe simply was not aboard, no matter what.







Post#129 at 05-09-2004 02:44 PM by HopefulCynic68 [at joined Sep 2001 #posts 9,412]
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Quote Originally Posted by Brian Rush
I don't personally engage in that kind of sex play, but I understand from those who do that the master/slave routine is an agreed-upon fiction, undertaken with the consent of both parties. A common practice is to have some kind of "stop" signal for the sub to use when things cross a line and become no fun any more.
Unfortunately, not everyone involved in such activities (as with any activities) is so ethical.

The thought has crossed my mind that one possible reason for the taking of the photographs might be related to that.







Post#130 at 05-09-2004 02:44 PM by HopefulCynic68 [at joined Sep 2001 #posts 9,412]
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Quote Originally Posted by Brian Rush
I don't personally engage in that kind of sex play, but I understand from those who do that the master/slave routine is an agreed-upon fiction, undertaken with the consent of both parties. A common practice is to have some kind of "stop" signal for the sub to use when things cross a line and become no fun any more.
Unfortunately, not everyone involved in such activities (as with any activities) is so ethical.

The thought has crossed my mind that one possible reason for the taking of the photographs might be related to that.







Post#131 at 05-09-2004 08:31 PM by Tim Walker '56 [at joined Jun 2001 #posts 24]
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Quote Originally Posted by Kiff 1961
Media Revolt: A Manifesto by the blogger David Neiwert.
Awhile back it was posted to another thread a comment that we are returning to a 19th century pattern-each political viewpoint has its own source of news.

Perhaps the 21st version will be that each political viewpoint has its own favored bloggers, web rings, and of course PIRGS (Public Interest Research Groups).







Post#132 at 05-09-2004 08:31 PM by Tim Walker '56 [at joined Jun 2001 #posts 24]
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Quote Originally Posted by Kiff 1961
Media Revolt: A Manifesto by the blogger David Neiwert.
Awhile back it was posted to another thread a comment that we are returning to a 19th century pattern-each political viewpoint has its own source of news.

Perhaps the 21st version will be that each political viewpoint has its own favored bloggers, web rings, and of course PIRGS (Public Interest Research Groups).







Post#133 at 05-10-2004 12:48 AM by Bob Butler 54 [at Cove Hold, Carver, MA joined Jul 2001 #posts 6,431]
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Re: Lambaste

Quote Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68
Quote Originally Posted by Bob Butler 54

I regret that the US forces on the ground and the US politicians supporting them will now have a more difficult job ahead of them. However, I would place the blame not on CBS, but on the US forces on the ground and the US politicians supporting them. If democracy is to work, if civilian control of the military is to be real, the military cannot be allowed to operate in secrecy.
In order to function effectively, the military must very often be able to work in secrecy. This is an inescapable fact of life.

Which is why the military is necessarily so dependent on a culture of honesty, and why whoever was involved in this is going to have to be dealt with harshly.
Keeping metods, sources, capabilities, future plans and other tactical advantages secret from the enemy is part of warfare. Keeping war crimes secret from Congress, the press, and the People is something else entirely. Agreed, a military culture of honesty and discipline is vital. It is also vital, when the system of honesty and discipline is broken, that yes, this is going to have to be dealt with harshly.







Post#134 at 05-10-2004 12:48 AM by Bob Butler 54 [at Cove Hold, Carver, MA joined Jul 2001 #posts 6,431]
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Re: Lambaste

Quote Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68
Quote Originally Posted by Bob Butler 54

I regret that the US forces on the ground and the US politicians supporting them will now have a more difficult job ahead of them. However, I would place the blame not on CBS, but on the US forces on the ground and the US politicians supporting them. If democracy is to work, if civilian control of the military is to be real, the military cannot be allowed to operate in secrecy.
In order to function effectively, the military must very often be able to work in secrecy. This is an inescapable fact of life.

Which is why the military is necessarily so dependent on a culture of honesty, and why whoever was involved in this is going to have to be dealt with harshly.
Keeping metods, sources, capabilities, future plans and other tactical advantages secret from the enemy is part of warfare. Keeping war crimes secret from Congress, the press, and the People is something else entirely. Agreed, a military culture of honesty and discipline is vital. It is also vital, when the system of honesty and discipline is broken, that yes, this is going to have to be dealt with harshly.







Post#135 at 05-11-2004 11:15 AM by Croakmore [at The hazardous reefs of Silentium joined Nov 2001 #posts 2,426]
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Me Too

Quote Originally Posted by mgibbons19 (71)
I just love visiting the T4T boards.
I haven't found anything that compares with our beloved T4T forum. It teaches me something important almost everytime I hop by for a visit.

--Sir Ernest Croakmore







Post#136 at 05-11-2004 11:15 AM by Croakmore [at The hazardous reefs of Silentium joined Nov 2001 #posts 2,426]
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Me Too

Quote Originally Posted by mgibbons19 (71)
I just love visiting the T4T boards.
I haven't found anything that compares with our beloved T4T forum. It teaches me something important almost everytime I hop by for a visit.

--Sir Ernest Croakmore







Post#137 at 05-11-2004 12:38 PM by Zarathustra [at Where the Northwest meets the Southwest joined Mar 2003 #posts 9,198]
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Re: Me Too

Quote Originally Posted by Croakmore
Quote Originally Posted by mgibbons19 (71)
I just love visiting the T4T boards.
I haven't found anything that compares with our beloved T4T forum. It teaches me something important almost everytime I hop by for a visit.

--Sir Ernest Croakmore
Such as . . . that Ontogeny Recapitulates Phylogeny (soft form) RULES!!!
Americans have had enough of glitz and roar . . Foreboding has deepened, and spiritual currents have darkened . . .
THE FOURTH TURNING IS AT HAND.
See T4T, p. 253.







Post#138 at 05-11-2004 12:38 PM by Zarathustra [at Where the Northwest meets the Southwest joined Mar 2003 #posts 9,198]
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Re: Me Too

Quote Originally Posted by Croakmore
Quote Originally Posted by mgibbons19 (71)
I just love visiting the T4T boards.
I haven't found anything that compares with our beloved T4T forum. It teaches me something important almost everytime I hop by for a visit.

--Sir Ernest Croakmore
Such as . . . that Ontogeny Recapitulates Phylogeny (soft form) RULES!!!
Americans have had enough of glitz and roar . . Foreboding has deepened, and spiritual currents have darkened . . .
THE FOURTH TURNING IS AT HAND.
See T4T, p. 253.







Post#139 at 05-11-2004 01:07 PM by Croakmore [at The hazardous reefs of Silentium joined Nov 2001 #posts 2,426]
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Re: Me Too

Quote Originally Posted by William Jennings Bryan
Quote Originally Posted by Croakmore
Quote Originally Posted by mgibbons19 (71)
I just love visiting the T4T boards.
I haven't found anything that compares with our beloved T4T forum. It teaches me something important almost everytime I hop by for a visit.

--Sir Ernest Croakmore
Such as . . . that Ontogeny Recapitulates Phylogeny (soft form) RULES!!!
Me thinks The Commoner is quilty again of propagating Haeckel's Lie.







Post#140 at 05-11-2004 01:07 PM by Croakmore [at The hazardous reefs of Silentium joined Nov 2001 #posts 2,426]
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Re: Me Too

Quote Originally Posted by William Jennings Bryan
Quote Originally Posted by Croakmore
Quote Originally Posted by mgibbons19 (71)
I just love visiting the T4T boards.
I haven't found anything that compares with our beloved T4T forum. It teaches me something important almost everytime I hop by for a visit.

--Sir Ernest Croakmore
Such as . . . that Ontogeny Recapitulates Phylogeny (soft form) RULES!!!
Me thinks The Commoner is quilty again of propagating Haeckel's Lie.







Post#141 at 05-11-2004 01:24 PM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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Croakmore:

Without daring to come between you and Mr. Love, it might work better if you find a non-creationist source to link in support of your statement.

Just a thought.







Post#142 at 05-11-2004 01:24 PM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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Croakmore:

Without daring to come between you and Mr. Love, it might work better if you find a non-creationist source to link in support of your statement.

Just a thought.







Post#143 at 05-11-2004 02:06 PM by Croakmore [at The hazardous reefs of Silentium joined Nov 2001 #posts 2,426]
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Quote Originally Posted by Brian Rush
Croakmore:

Without daring to come between you and Mr. Love, it might work better if you find a non-creationist source to link in support of your statement.

Just a thought.
Oops, you're right about that, Brian. I suppose it is worth mentioning here von Baer's Law.

Quoting S. J. Gould from his Ontogeny and Phylogeny:

Von Baer argued that human gill slits do not reflect a change in developmental timing. They are not adult stages of ancestors pushed back into the embryos of descendants; they merely represent a stage common to the early ontogeny of all vertebrates (embryonic fish also have gill slits, after all). The confusion between von Baer and Haeckel arises from an unfortunate tradition in natural history, the emphasis of results and their classification rather than processes and their explanation.

I know Creationists will seize upon anything they think will make their case, even if they don't understand the operating principles.

--Croak







Post#144 at 05-11-2004 02:06 PM by Croakmore [at The hazardous reefs of Silentium joined Nov 2001 #posts 2,426]
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Quote Originally Posted by Brian Rush
Croakmore:

Without daring to come between you and Mr. Love, it might work better if you find a non-creationist source to link in support of your statement.

Just a thought.
Oops, you're right about that, Brian. I suppose it is worth mentioning here von Baer's Law.

Quoting S. J. Gould from his Ontogeny and Phylogeny:

Von Baer argued that human gill slits do not reflect a change in developmental timing. They are not adult stages of ancestors pushed back into the embryos of descendants; they merely represent a stage common to the early ontogeny of all vertebrates (embryonic fish also have gill slits, after all). The confusion between von Baer and Haeckel arises from an unfortunate tradition in natural history, the emphasis of results and their classification rather than processes and their explanation.

I know Creationists will seize upon anything they think will make their case, even if they don't understand the operating principles.

--Croak







Post#145 at 05-11-2004 02:18 PM by Mikebert [at Kalamazoo MI joined Jul 2001 #posts 4,501]
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Re: Military Cult

Quote Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68
Quote Originally Posted by Mike Alexander '59
Quote Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68
What were they?
Any other option you would reject out of hand so there is no point even discussing it.
In short, you don't have any either. As I suspected.

But you're right that any option, in real-world terms, had to be something we could implement either unilaterally, or independent of the decaying UN/NATO system. Europe simply was not aboard, no matter what.
What are you talking about? You asked about alternatives to religion for constructing moral rules.







Post#146 at 05-11-2004 02:18 PM by Mikebert [at Kalamazoo MI joined Jul 2001 #posts 4,501]
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Re: Military Cult

Quote Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68
Quote Originally Posted by Mike Alexander '59
Quote Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68
What were they?
Any other option you would reject out of hand so there is no point even discussing it.
In short, you don't have any either. As I suspected.

But you're right that any option, in real-world terms, had to be something we could implement either unilaterally, or independent of the decaying UN/NATO system. Europe simply was not aboard, no matter what.
What are you talking about? You asked about alternatives to religion for constructing moral rules.







Post#147 at 05-11-2004 06:40 PM by Mikebert [at Kalamazoo MI joined Jul 2001 #posts 4,501]
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This is horrible. It's photos of the beheading by al Qaeda of Nick Berg, an American contractor in Iraq in retaliation for the abuse at Abu Ghraib. The same thing happened to Daniel Pearl, an American reporter in Pakistan, IIRC, also by an al Qaeda-linked group.

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article6172.htm

Why are we pussyfooting around with al Qaeda anyways? This Abu Musab al-Zarqawi probably has family somewhere. Bin Laden sure as hell does.







Post#148 at 05-11-2004 06:40 PM by Mikebert [at Kalamazoo MI joined Jul 2001 #posts 4,501]
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This is horrible. It's photos of the beheading by al Qaeda of Nick Berg, an American contractor in Iraq in retaliation for the abuse at Abu Ghraib. The same thing happened to Daniel Pearl, an American reporter in Pakistan, IIRC, also by an al Qaeda-linked group.

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article6172.htm

Why are we pussyfooting around with al Qaeda anyways? This Abu Musab al-Zarqawi probably has family somewhere. Bin Laden sure as hell does.







Post#149 at 05-11-2004 07:09 PM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Quote Originally Posted by Mike Alexander '59
This is horrible. It's photos of the beheading by al Qaeda of Nick Berg, an American contractor in Iraq in retaliation for the abuse at Abu Ghraib. The same thing happened to Daniel Pearl, an American reporter in Pakistan, IIRC, also by an al Qaeda-linked group.

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article6172.htm

Why are we pussyfooting around with al Qaeda anyways? This Abu Musab al-Zarqawi probably has family somewhere. Bin Laden sure as hell does.
It is horrible. And predicted. Said predictions ignored. Repeatedly.

-sigh-

(by the way, in your last sentence are you advocating doing something :shock: to the families of those worthies? At least some of whom, quite probably, have done you even less harm than the American mercenary did to his Iraqi murderers? How does this make you any better than them?)

_________________________________

"The absolute ruler may be a Nero, but he is sometimes Titus or Marcus Aurelius; the people is often Nero, and never Marcus Aurelius" -- Kuehnelt-Leddihn







Post#150 at 05-11-2004 07:09 PM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Quote Originally Posted by Mike Alexander '59
This is horrible. It's photos of the beheading by al Qaeda of Nick Berg, an American contractor in Iraq in retaliation for the abuse at Abu Ghraib. The same thing happened to Daniel Pearl, an American reporter in Pakistan, IIRC, also by an al Qaeda-linked group.

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article6172.htm

Why are we pussyfooting around with al Qaeda anyways? This Abu Musab al-Zarqawi probably has family somewhere. Bin Laden sure as hell does.
It is horrible. And predicted. Said predictions ignored. Repeatedly.

-sigh-

(by the way, in your last sentence are you advocating doing something :shock: to the families of those worthies? At least some of whom, quite probably, have done you even less harm than the American mercenary did to his Iraqi murderers? How does this make you any better than them?)

_________________________________

"The absolute ruler may be a Nero, but he is sometimes Titus or Marcus Aurelius; the people is often Nero, and never Marcus Aurelius" -- Kuehnelt-Leddihn
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