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Thread: US elections, 2016 - Page 90







Post#2226 at 02-09-2016 05:03 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by XYMOX_4AD_84 View Post
Steinem doesn't get Millies. She's clueless.
So you disagree that young female millies are "activist and feminist in greater numbers than ever before"?

Besides. it happened on the Bill Maher show for Christ's sake You're supposed to say outrageous, politically incorrect things there. It's part of the program!
Last edited by Eric the Green; 02-09-2016 at 05:05 PM.
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Post#2227 at 02-09-2016 05:13 PM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,595]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Some private militia groups might, if gun control and higher taxes are imposed. Possibly some states might secede. The Texas talk has been about the whole state seceding; Gov. Perry suggested it.

The question is, how long can the stalemate go on. We need to decide.

Shall we become a banana republic in which a few rich people have all the wealth and power? Shall we plunge the world into a millennium of climate chaos? Shall we invade other countries with impunity? Shall we impose Christian values as interpreted by fundamentalist churches upon the people? Shall everyone be allowed to own and carry any kind of gun? That's the Republican Choice.

Or shall we break the log jam and raise some taxes and increase social spending, to offset free trade and the lower demand for labor, and thus provide a socially mobile society again? Shall we make public investments? Shall we concede to not being the number 1 military power forever with the right and duty to police the world, and work with other countries to keep the peace instead? Shall we stop and reverse global warming, and thus save our cities and endangered nations and stop killing off the planet's life? Shall we return to the ideal of freedom of religion, or of no religion, and not allow religious beliefs to justify discrimination against people? Shall we "well regulate" the citizen's militia with gun control? That's the Democratic Choice.

I don't think there's a middle ground. Either one side wins, or we break apart.
The Influence of Christianity is declining. So, there is no possibility of imposing 'Christian Values'.
Just have to decide to have patience . The Secular side is already winning.
Very sad that we must deal with this as a form of 'war, with conclusion that one side wins or we break apart.







Post#2228 at 02-09-2016 05:13 PM by XYMOX_4AD_84 [at joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,073]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
I'm not sure what you are looking at. So far we only have returns from Dixville Notch:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/10/us...olls.html?_r=0
The Waiting

Polling stations typically close at 7 p.m., though it can vary; in Nashua, for instance, voting goes on until 8. And in the tiny towns of Dixville Notch, Hartís Location and Millsfield, voting began at 12 a.m. Tuesday and was over in minutes. (Mr. Sanders got a total of 17 votes, to Mrs. Clintonís nine; Mr. Trump, Mr. Kasich and Senator Ted Cruz led the Republican field with nine votes each.)

In 2012, the Republican primary here was called for Mr. Romney almost immediately after polls closed. But a closer contest could take much longer: In 2008, when Mrs. Clinton defeated Mr. Obama here, The Associated Press did not declare her the winner until around 10:30 p.m.
The WaPo has a page with real time updates. There are now more returns than Dixville. There are ~6% of the two counties that encompass The Whites. Granted those are low population counties.







Post#2229 at 02-09-2016 05:44 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by XYMOX_4AD_84 View Post
The WaPo has a page with real time updates. There are now more returns than Dixville. There are ~6% of the two counties that encompass The Whites. Granted those are low population counties.
I don't see any such page.
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Post#2230 at 02-09-2016 05:58 PM by MordecaiK [at joined Mar 2014 #posts 1,086]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
Do you have a point here? There are any number of references in the Constitution that apply to conditions that no longer exist. Do we still have post roads? I don't think so. How about letters of marque and reprisal? No, not those either. We also avoid quartering soldiers in people's homes.

So even your pointed choice of "state" as meaning each of the several states doesn't mean that the right to keep and bear arms is unlimited and personal. It's not. It's intended to support the militia, and that's a military function. So buy as many guns as you want, but be prepared to present them to you commanding officer when you attend militia drills.
We do have an evolution of Letters of Marque in the contracts signed with companies such as Xe! (formerly Blackwater) and others to engage in private military operations on US govt. behalf.







Post#2231 at 02-09-2016 06:05 PM by MordecaiK [at joined Mar 2014 #posts 1,086]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
So you disagree that young female millies are "activist and feminist in greater numbers than ever before"?

Besides. it happened on the Bill Maher show for Christ's sake You're supposed to say outrageous, politically incorrect things there. It's part of the program!
A lot of it may be a matter of sheer income. NYT published an analysis of the Iowa Caucus results and the key determinant of Sander's support appears to be lower income. And while the NYT dosen't mention this, crossovers from poorer people from supporting Trump to supporting Sanders might well be part of Sander's poorer than expected performance. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/05/up...vide.html?_r=0 . And income divides very clearly by age with Silents and Boomers in a lot better financial shape than Xers and Millies. So maybe (shock! horror!) it's as simple as Millie women having less money and expecting to have a lot less money unless things change dramatically.







Post#2232 at 02-09-2016 06:08 PM by MordecaiK [at joined Mar 2014 #posts 1,086]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
If we split, how does the divorce divide the goods and the debts? Most of the "goods" are located in Red areas (the two major Naval bases being major exceptions) and most of the debt was amassed to offset spending in Red states that was underfunded by the nation as a whole. With the notable exception of WWII, most Blue states have been self funded for a century or more.

I don't see that being resolved equitably. For one thing, the Red states will be livid at the idea that have to assume any of the debt at all, to say nothing of the lion's share.
Yes. The devil in a divorce is always in the settlement. Just ask the Ukrainians and the Serbs and Croats and Slovenes. I would suspect that debts would be apportioned on a per capita basis.







Post#2233 at 02-09-2016 06:09 PM by MordecaiK [at joined Mar 2014 #posts 1,086]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
This is absurd. Obviously, meeting all medical needs, to say nothing of desires, implies heroic care for the terminally ill, and a bottomless money pot to fund research on incurable diseases. Those are highly desirable pursuits, but astronomically expensive. And don't forget, we are mortal. We all die eventually.
The French manage to pay for everything for every French citizen in Medical care. And at half the cost of US care. We'll be able to do this unless "right to die" becomes accepted as a copout not to.







Post#2234 at 02-09-2016 06:15 PM by MordecaiK [at joined Mar 2014 #posts 1,086]
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Quote Originally Posted by radind View Post
I would not like to the the USA breakup and there is no way to know what a Constitutional Convention would produce. It is possible that this could be peaceful, but I don't see much basis in history for optimism for a positive outcome.

It seems to me that we are very gradually moving in direction of Europe and as religious influence wanes, the secular majority will just take control. This is not what I would choose, but the force of this change will have to run its course in the next hundred years.
I guess how secular this country becomes will depend on a) how the US fares in the Crisis b) how soon we get our next Awakening and c) what religious groups can get the kind of patronage from business interests in the next 1T to position themselves for the next 2T Awakening. Which is how and why the Christian Right was able to win the last Awakening. Read http://www.amazon.com/One-Nation-Und.../dp/1501238205







Post#2235 at 02-09-2016 06:17 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by MordecaiK View Post
A lot of it may be a matter of sheer income. NYT published an analysis of the Iowa Caucus results and the key determinant of Sander's support appears to be lower income. And while the NYT dosen't mention this, crossovers from poorer people from supporting Trump to supporting Sanders might well be part of Sander's poorer than expected performance. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/05/up...vide.html?_r=0 . And income divides very clearly by age with Silents and Boomers in a lot better financial shape than Xers and Millies. So maybe (shock! horror!) it's as simple as Millie women having less money and expecting to have a lot less money unless things change dramatically.
You mean than Trump's poorer than expected performance. Yes, all that's true.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

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Post#2236 at 02-09-2016 06:29 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by radind View Post
The Influence of Christianity is declining. So, there is no possibility of imposing 'Christian Values'.
Just have to decide to have patience . The Secular side is already winning.
Very sad that we must deal with this as a form of 'war, with conclusion that one side wins or we break apart.
The secular side winning may have to be accepted, but may also not be accepted by the red-state side. It's still a major motivator of the divide. It may be sad, but I think it's good that the choice is being put to us in this 4T. 4Ts are times for such choices. We can't continue as we are; that's a gradual decline. We have to choose between resuming progress or accelerating the decline.

The blocks put up by the Republicans are just not acceptable to the other side. Climate change is a must-win issue. Prices are rising and wages are falling, making it harder to make ends meet as the 1% accumulate ever-greater wealth and power. Gun violence is becoming intolerable.

On the Republican side, gun control is increasingly anathema, and the fear-based drive for "self-protection" is epidemic. The slogans and memes that say big "intrusive" government is taking tax money from those who earn it to give to freeloaders seems fixed in their minds, especially among business people pressured by economic forces they don't understand. The fear of becoming a different country than the white, Christian and middle class country which dominated the world that they knew in earlier times, upsets them.
Last edited by Eric the Green; 02-09-2016 at 06:35 PM.
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Post#2237 at 02-09-2016 06:36 PM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,595]
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Quote Originally Posted by MordecaiK View Post
I guess how secular this country becomes will depend on a) how the US fares in the Crisis b) how soon we get our next Awakening and c) what religious groups can get the kind of patronage from business interests in the next 1T to position themselves for the next 2T Awakening. Which is how and why the Christian Right was able to win the last Awakening. Read http://www.amazon.com/One-Nation-Und.../dp/1501238205
Even if one thinks that the US was once a Christian nation, it is clear, at least to me, that this is long past. We are in a different era without some being aware of the current environment.







Post#2238 at 02-09-2016 06:41 PM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,595]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
The secular side winning may have to be accepted, but may also not be accepted by the red-state side. It's still a major motivator of the divide. It may be sad, but I think it's good that the choice is being put to us in this 4T. 4Ts are times for such choices. We can't continue as we are; that's a gradual decline. We have to choose between resuming progress or accelerating the decline.

The blocks put up by the Republicans are just not acceptable to the other side. Climate change is a must-win issue. Prices are rising and wages are falling, making it harder to make ends meet as the 1% accumulate ever-greater wealth and power. Gun violence is becoming intolerable.

On the Republican side, gun control is increasingly anathema, and the fear-based drive for "self-protection" is epidemic. The slogans and memes that say big "intrusive" government is taking tax money from those who earn it to give to freeloaders seems fixed in their minds, especially among business people pressured by economic forces they don't understand. The fear of becoming a different country than the white, Christian and middle class country which dominated the world that they knew in earlier times, upsets them.
People, including me ,can and will be upset. However, that does not change the continuing shift toward a secular nation. I still do not see armed rebellion as the outcome.







Post#2239 at 02-09-2016 06:41 PM by Classic-X'er [at joined Sep 2012 #posts 1,789]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
Look at the record. White defendants get the benefit of the doubt, and greater leniency if actually convicted, than blacks, Latinos or Asians. American Indians probably do even worse than blacks, if that's a comfort to you.
Does the record tell/show us why?







Post#2240 at 02-09-2016 07:18 PM by TnT [at joined Feb 2005 #posts 2,005]
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Quote Originally Posted by Classic-X'er View Post
Does the record tell/show us why?
Well, clearly it's because blacks, Latinos, Asians and Natives are lazy, tend to lean toward crime as a way to make a living, and are - overall - just more thuggish, and basically inferior to "whites." This is tightly reasoned and extensively documented in The Bell Curve​ by Taylor. >;^)
" ... a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition."







Post#2241 at 02-09-2016 07:20 PM by MordecaiK [at joined Mar 2014 #posts 1,086]
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Quote Originally Posted by radind View Post
Even if one thinks that the US was once a Christian nation, it is clear, at least to me, that this is long past. We are in a different era without some being aware of the current environment.
We went into Iraq thinking Iraq had moved beyond fundamentalist Islam. The US may not be as post-Christian as we might want to think. Civics and Adaptives may have a secular orientation (especially in the latter stages of an unravelling and a Crisis) but there always seems to be another Awakening in the next cycle. Republicans like Thomas Jefferson were quite sure that the US had moved beyond the superstitions of Christianity--and lived to be proven wrong in the Second Great Awakening. As Gilded did the Missionary Awakening and GIs, the Boomer Awakening.
Europe's putative secularism may simply be a result of 30 years of war and Crisis--more a failure of nerve than evolution away from religion. The US will evolve away from Christianity if the next Awakening leaves it predominantly Buddhist.







Post#2242 at 02-09-2016 07:28 PM by B Butler [at joined Nov 2011 #posts 2,329]
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Left Arrow Rights and Duties

Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
You miss the point entirely. Forced to drill, drill hard and drill regularly, the 2nd would become an albatross to most of the very people using it as a shield.
You missed the point entirely. Ain't going to happen. Totally irrelevant. Emotional smoke to no purpose.

Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
I suspect that no one will want to maintain a militia in the official sense.
Agreed. The bare skeletons of the old militia laws are still there in some states, but fleshing them out to anything useful is very unlikely. I had some thoughts that it could conceivably happen in the days after the September 11th attack. Bin Ladin attacked office space. Highly symbolic office space, but office space none the less. He wasn't going to destroy our ability to fight by depriving us of office space. All he did was tick us off and give political clearance for Bush 43 and the neocons to go nuts.

A more serious and damaging attack might focus on dispersed infrastructure... bridges, power lines, aqueducts, etc... No way do we have enough regular forces to defend all that. We'd need a ton of manpower. A solid ISIS campaign against domestic US infrastructure might conceivably bring back the militia. Not much else is likely to. I don't anticipate such a campaign or a new militia as a response. Still, some folk around these forums talk as if a civil war or insurrection might be due this 4T. If domestic conflict gets serious, if communities start coming under threat, the militia as a dispersed trip wire to alert better trained police or military forces is still plausible. I don't see it as anything near likely, but plausible.

I see the rural and NRA types as likely to step up to the plate and help as they can. I see the urban ammophobics cowering in the ruins and repeating a mantra that defense of the community isn't their job.

Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
In other than the official sense, the 2nd doesn't apply. So I'm back to the point I made originally: either the original intent guys like Scalia are honest and accept the intent of having militia in lieu of an army, or they aren't. If they aren't, then they just proved how political they really are, making judicial activism the standard model.
The original intent was an armed trained populace and a duty to defend the community. Cornell was spot on in reminding people that there used to be a strenuous serious duty to protect the community. That duty has faded from memory and culture, especially in urban areas, but the rights have not faded, especially in rural areas. The rights of the individual do not go away because the government decides not to exercise some of its powers. Any argument to the contrary is really really silly.







Post#2243 at 02-09-2016 07:30 PM by MordecaiK [at joined Mar 2014 #posts 1,086]
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Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon
Look at the record. White defendants get the benefit of the doubt, and greater leniency if actually convicted, than blacks, Latinos or Asians. American Indians probably do even worse than blacks, if that's a comfort to you.



Does the record tell/show us why?
We need to look at the record of who goes to trial and who has to plead guilty to a lesser offence because he or she cannot afford $500 bail. See
Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon
Look at the record. White defendants get the benefit of the doubt, and greater leniency if actually convicted, than blacks, Latinos or Asians. American Indians probably do even worse than blacks, if that's a comfort to you.



Does the record tell/show us why?
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/ma...bail-trap.html . In a city like NYC, things compound. African-American and Latino people are targeted to meet police officers quotas for misdemeanor arrests. Even for something like blocking the sidewalk by standing outside their apartment smoking a cigarette--when there is no foot traffic. Which does not happen with whites, especially whites with money. They are overcharged by prosecutors. They cannot afford bail and plead guilty to a lesser charge to avoid jail time and loss of job. Lather, rinse, repeat. A criminal record is established and is a gift that keeps on giving. It has gotten so bad that African Americans have been looking to move out of NYC to avoid legal trouble. Which helps NYC gentrify poor neighbourhood after poor neighbourhood.
It isn't only African Americans at this point. Poorer whites are starting to experience the same kind of legal harassment as African-Americans, particularly in poorer rural areas without racial minorities.







Post#2244 at 02-09-2016 07:39 PM by MordecaiK [at joined Mar 2014 #posts 1,086]
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Quote Originally Posted by B Butler View Post
You missed the point entirely. Ain't going to happen. Totally irrelevant. Emotional smoke to no purpose.



Agreed. The bare skeletons of the old militia laws are still there in some states, but fleshing them out to anything useful is very unlikely. I had some thoughts that it could conceivably happen in the days after the September 11th attack. Bin Ladin attacked office space. Highly symbolic office space, but office space none the less. He wasn't going to destroy our ability to fight by depriving us of office space. All he did was tick us off and give political clearance for Bush 43 and the neocons to go nuts.

A more serious and damaging attack might focus on dispersed infrastructure... bridges, power lines, aqueducts, etc... No way do we have enough regular forces to defend all that. We'd need a ton of manpower. A solid ISIS campaign against domestic US infrastructure might conceivably bring back the militia. Not much else is likely to. I don't anticipate such a campaign or a new militia as a response. Still, some folk around these forums talk as if a civil war or insurrection might be due this 4T. If domestic conflict gets serious, if communities start coming under threat, the militia as a dispersed trip wire to alert better trained police or military forces is still plausible. I don't see it as anything near likely, but plausible.

I see the rural and NRA types as likely to step up to the plate and help as they can. I see the urban ammophobics cowering in the ruins and repeating a mantra that defense of the community isn't their job.



The original intent was an armed trained populace and a duty to defend the community. Cornell was spot on in reminding people that there used to be a strenuous serious duty to protect the community. That duty has faded from memory and culture, especially in urban areas, but the rights have not faded, especially in rural areas. The rights of the individual do not go away because the government decides not to exercise some of its powers. Any argument to the contrary is really really silly.
The survival of the state militias is the National Guard. And after the Iraq War, when ALL National Guardspeople got federalised and rotated on at least one job disrupting tour of duty (unless found medically unfit for duty, which many Guardspeople were) poorer white Americans may be leery of joining the National Guard despite the benefits (which do not include access to free medical care).
What we have is millions of Americans clinging to weapons as a security blanket when they do not maintain the training for readiness to really respond appropriately in an emergency. Based on the record of things like home invasions in other countries, this may deter some crime (which is less and less). But at a cost of providing the means to suicide on a whim for millions of Americans with the inclination to do so.
The Israeli experience is the exact opposite. Fewer guns issued to civilians (yes, those guns remain government property) but guns IN civilian hands. And most importantly, those Israelis having those guns getting yearly refresher courses during their month of Army Duty. And THAT kind of "duty to bear arms" has saved a lot of Israeli civilian lives.







Post#2245 at 02-09-2016 07:45 PM by MordecaiK [at joined Mar 2014 #posts 1,086]
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Quote Originally Posted by radind View Post
People, including me ,can and will be upset. However, that does not change the continuing shift toward a secular nation. I still do not see armed rebellion as the outcome.
I don't see armed rebellion as an outcome, at least initially, either. People have weapons but are not trained to military order as they were during the 1850s. On the other hand, America's armed forces are quite small if it ever comes to widespread armed rebellion. A 1-300 ratio of service personnel to civilians is not enough to put down a widespread revolt in a country the size of the US. It would be a very messy rebellion, though, since civilians would have to "train up" to military order and probably be marked by mutiny and defection within the armed services. And it would not happen unless the System became truly repressive and unyielding. Have a good look at Syria to see what armed rebellion really looks like.







Post#2246 at 02-09-2016 08:04 PM by Classic-X'er [at joined Sep 2012 #posts 1,789]
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Quote Originally Posted by radind View Post
The Influence of Christianity is declining. So, there is no possibility of imposing 'Christian Values'.
Just have to decide to have patience . The Secular side is already winning.
Very sad that we must deal with this as a form of 'war, with conclusion that one side wins or we break apart.
America has always been a secular nation with a diverse population of religious minded people. The secular side hasn't done anything big or bad enough to be severely challenged yet.







Post#2247 at 02-09-2016 08:05 PM by MordecaiK [at joined Mar 2014 #posts 1,086]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
The secular side winning may have to be accepted, but may also not be accepted by the red-state side. It's still a major motivator of the divide. It may be sad, but I think it's good that the choice is being put to us in this 4T. 4Ts are times for such choices. We can't continue as we are; that's a gradual decline. We have to choose between resuming progress or accelerating the decline.

The blocks put up by the Republicans are just not acceptable to the other side. Climate change is a must-win issue. Prices are rising and wages are falling, making it harder to make ends meet as the 1% accumulate ever-greater wealth and power. Gun violence is becoming intolerable.

On the Republican side, gun control is increasingly anathema, and the fear-based drive for "self-protection" is epidemic. The slogans and memes that say big "intrusive" government is taking tax money from those who earn it to give to freeloaders seems fixed in their minds, especially among business people pressured by economic forces they don't understand. The fear of becoming a different country than the white, Christian and middle class country which dominated the world that they knew in earlier times, upsets them.
Well that may just depend on what kind of inroads Sanders can make with poor whites in "Red States". Unlike Hillary, Sanders does not write off poor whites (ironic, since it was poor whites who gave Bill Clinton his margin of victory in 1992).
This time around, as we are seeing with Trump's appeal in the South, Southern poor whites are not voting their faith in such large numbers (no, they haven't voted yet!) They are more in play than they have been since 1992. And they are not buying the Republican conservative line the way they used to. If they did, Ted Cruz would have the South locked up.
There is a division within Protestant Christianity that may be playing out here. Conservative Christians in the US divide between post-millenialism, which sees the Second Coming happening after the world has been made Christian and God's Kingdom established (Dominionism, Christian Reconstructionism and Kingdom Now theology) and pre-millenialism, which expects the Tribulation to purify a wicked world (with the hope that Christians will be "raptured" into Heaven to miss the Great Tribulation.
Aligned with this division is the division between Arminianism, the idea that anyone can be Saved by being "born again" and Calvinist Predestinarianism, the idea that some people are predestined for Salvation and some for Damnation with one's status on Earth as a good indicator of who is who.
Needless to say, as Conservative Christianity has moved into greater support for Neo-liberalism, Calvinism and Dominionism have moved into the vanguard, at least amongst more affluent Christians. (Which was also the case during the Gilded Age). What we may be seeing the signs of is that this shift in Christianity toward a more predestinarian orientation, more congruent with Republican Neo-Liberalism (Huckabee, Michelle Bachman, and Perry are Dominionists and Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich are conservative Catholics) may have alienated a lot of poorer white Christians. Which may help explain why so many of them are turning to Trump, who while non-religious, speaks to their needs. And why some of them may even be interested in Sanders, though they find Hillary anathema.
Does this mean that they are losing their religion? Or that the predominant religion has lost and written off them? Being considered damned and Hellbound because one is poor is a tough thing to accept, particularly when that poverty is easily seen as the result of decisions by bosses and elites. They have been claiming that car in the name of Jesus for the last 20 years--and neither they nor Jesus can make the payments.







Post#2248 at 02-09-2016 08:09 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Last general election polling map for Bernie Sanders before the New Hampshire primaries. I'm not showing Bush, Carson, or Fiorina this time. I may have to add Kasich on the next set of maps.

Bernie Sanders(D) vs. Ted Cruz (R)






Bernie Sanders vs. Marco Rubio


Bernie Sanders vs. Donald Trump



30% -- lead with 40-49% but a margin of 3% or less
40% -- lead with 40-49% but a margin of 4% or more
60% -- lead with 50-54%
70% -- lead with 55-59%
90% -- lead with 60% or more

White -- tie or someone leading with less than 40%.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#2249 at 02-09-2016 08:10 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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02-09-2016, 08:10 PM #2249
Join Date
Sep 2006
Location
Moorhead, MN, USA
Posts
14,442

To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#2250 at 02-09-2016 08:13 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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02-09-2016, 08:13 PM #2250
Join Date
May 2005
Location
"Michigrim"
Posts
15,014

Now involving Hillary Clinton:

Hillary Clinton vs. Jeb Bush



Hillary Clinton(D) vs. Ted Cruz (R)



Hillary Clinton vs. Marco Rubio



Hillary Clinton vs. Donald Trump



30% -- lead with 40-49% but a margin of 3% or less
40% -- lead with 40-49% but a margin of 4% or more
60% -- lead with 50-54%
70% -- lead with 55-59%
90% -- lead with 60% or more

White -- tie or someone leading with less than 40%.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters
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