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Thread: US elections, 2016 - Page 104







Post#2576 at 03-01-2016 12:22 PM by XYMOX_4AD_84 [at joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,073]
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Quote Originally Posted by MordecaiK View Post
But many GOP insiders are starting to reach an accomodation with Trump. Chris Christy's endorsement is just the beginning.
Many may be an exaggeration. Definitely not a majority. I will not endorse Trump under any circumstance. Even if an overt Communist was the Left's candidate I would vote for the Communist over Trump. Trump would be that destructive.







Post#2577 at 03-01-2016 12:32 PM by Earl and Mooch [at Delaware - we pave paradise and put up parking lots joined Sep 2002 #posts 2,106]
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Quote Originally Posted by TnT View Post
Having spent my whole worklife in the healthcare industry, I've run into quite a few doctors who, for whatever reason, believe that because they survived the challenge of medical school and internships and residencies ... that therefore, QED, they are EXPERT in every field of human endeavor!!

I wish I had $100 bill for every time I've been asked by a physician, "WHERE did YOU go to medical school?" As they look down their nose with curled lip. And interestingly, the topic at hand can even be something that has nothing to do with medicine.
I know plenty of PhDs (particularly in academia) with the same attitude.
"My generation, we were the generation that was going to change the world: somehow we were going to make it a little less lonely, a little less hungry, a little more just place. But it seems that when that promise slipped through our hands we didnīt replace it with nothing but lost faith."

Bruce Springsteen, 1987
http://brucebase.wikispaces.com/1987...+YORK+CITY,+NY







Post#2578 at 03-01-2016 02:52 PM by Bad Dog [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 2,156]
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Quote Originally Posted by TnT View Post
Having spent my whole worklife in the healthcare industry, I've run into quite a few doctors who, for whatever reason, believe that because they survived the challenge of medical school and internships and residencies ... that therefore, QED, they are EXPERT in every field of human endeavor!!
Us, too. See Tom Wolfe's magnum opus.







Post#2579 at 03-01-2016 02:54 PM by MordecaiK [at joined Mar 2014 #posts 1,086]
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Quote Originally Posted by XYMOX_4AD_84 View Post
Many may be an exaggeration. Definitely not a majority. I will not endorse Trump under any circumstance. Even if an overt Communist was the Left's candidate I would vote for the Communist over Trump. Trump would be that destructive.
Good! Then you can live with Bernie.







Post#2580 at 03-01-2016 03:17 PM by MordecaiK [at joined Mar 2014 #posts 1,086]
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Originally Posted by MordecaiK

Menace 82 is a band or an album, apparently.
This is what I mean by "Menace 82":

http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb...flSkm3yiRr.jpg

That's what happens when I try to be cute.

And lead poisoning similar to Flint is being found in Detroit, Grand Rapids, Muskegon, Jackson, Kalamazoo, Battle Creek, Saginaw, Midland and Bay City in Michigan, Toledo, Cleveland, Sebring and Cincinnati in Ohio, all over Chicago IL and likely East Saint Louis and Milwaukee and hundreds of towns with the exception of Madison, which has replaced it's lead mains and feeder pipes all over Wisconsin.


Is Indiana somehow exempt? Just curious.
I don't THINK Indiana is exempt. But I haven't seen any news reports of lead poisoning. from lead pipes coming out of Indiana. I would be very surprised though if lead poisoning ISN"T a problem in Gary, Hammond, Indianapolis, Ft. Wayne, Muncie and small towns. Maybe Indiana is simply better at keeping the lid on the issue since it has a far more entrenched and conservative political establishment.
A good campaign strategy on this would involve getting union plumbers to send a dug up corroded lead pipe to the Sanders campaign for Bernie to brandish at some point in his speech on campaign stops in the area, saying "this pipe came from ____. It would have to be a different pipe found locally and couldn't be the same pipe since the Clinton Campaign WOULD compare photos looking for something like this.



Ironically lead does not corrode so visibly as iron does. That would not be good for a demonstration. Lead is in use because it well resists corrosion.
The corrosion is quite visible. News footage of dug up corroded pipes show that the lead corrosion has a distinctive yellow colour. Yes, lead is corrosion resistant compared to iron and maybe even copper. Which is why those pipes have remained in the ground as long as they have. But resistance is not imperviousness. Lead does corrode eventually even if that corrosion can take a very long time to corrode pipes completely through. Long before that happens, lead salts will be dissolving in the drinking water.
Bernie does have a big campaign problem though which came through tonight in South Carolina and that is African-American antisemitism. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...s-and-latinos/ . Something like 30% of African-Americans and Latinos have entrenched anti-semitic views according to this survey put out by the Bnai Brith Anti-defamation League. It's about the only thing that could account for Sanders's difficulty making headway with African Americans despite endorsements from spokespeople from people like Cornell West and Tavis Smiley.



It is ironic. If I were black I would recall that among non-blacks, Jews were the people most disproportionately involved in the Civil Rights cause. Jews are the least anti-black of non-black people identifiable by ethnicity or religion. It could be that Jews are the last white people to leave a neighborhood going black or Hispanic as residents or business owners.

L
You haven't lived in places like Chicago. There, Jews were amongst the first to leave neighbourhoods that went African-American, moving from the West Side to Rogers Park and Skokie and Des Plaines and Winnetka. While other ethnic groups like Italians and Poles resorted to terrorism to keep African-Americans out.
Let us remember: Jews founded the NAACP, the most effective organization in promoting the economic, educational, and political interests of black people.
I'm not sure why African-Americans broke the alliance with Jews as soon as Civil Rights started to make headway. It's one of the reasons why I think that the basis of anti-semitism is religious and theological. I read or heard somewhere that a lot of African-American churches still blame Jews for killing Jesus. And Saudi Arabia put a lot of effort and money into spreading Salafist Islam amongst African-Americans.
It certainly hasn't helped that African-Americans have more sympathy for Palestinian Arabs than they do for Israel. And riots such as those in 1968 in New York over Ocean Hill Brownsville neighbourhood school board and the Crown Heights Riot of 1991 have hardened Jewish attitudes toward African-Americans, especially amongst Orthodox Jews (who now are mostly neo-con Republican). Unlike white Americans who have largely forgotten the white against black riots like Atlanta 100 years ago, Jews never forget a pogrom against Jews.
Last edited by pbrower2a; 02-28-2016 at 08:11 PM.







Post#2581 at 03-01-2016 03:20 PM by XYMOX_4AD_84 [at joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,073]
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Quote Originally Posted by MordecaiK View Post
Good! Then you can live with Bernie.
Barring a miracle I'll vote for the Democrat no matter who wins the Dem nomination.







Post#2582 at 03-01-2016 04:00 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Washington (CNN)Both of the remaining Democratic candidates for president easily top Republican front-runner Donald Trump in hypothetical general election match-ups, according to a new CNN/ORC Poll.

But Hillary Clinton, who is well ahead in the Democratic race for the presidency, would likely face a stronger challenge should Florida Sen. Marco Rubio or Texas Sen. Ted Cruz capture the Republican nomination for president.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/01/politi...-sanders-poll/

In the scenario that appears most likely to emerge from the primary contests, Clinton tops Trump 52% to 44% among registered voters. That result has tilted in Clinton's favor since the last CNN/ORC Poll on the match-up in January.

But when the former secretary of state faces off with either of the other two top Republicans, things are much tighter and roughly the same as they were in January. Clinton trails against Rubio, with 50% choosing the Florida senator compared to 47% for Clinton, identical to the results in January. Against Cruz, Clinton holds 48% to his 49%, a slight tightening from a 3-point race in January to a 1-point match-up now.

Sanders -- who enjoys the most positive favorable rating of any presidential candidate in the field, according to the poll -- tops all three Republicans by wide margins: 57% to 40% against Cruz, 55% to 43% against Trump, and 53% to 45% against Rubio. Sanders fares better than Clinton in each match-up among men, younger voters and independents.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#2583 at 03-01-2016 08:31 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Heading out to caucus for Bernie!
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#2584 at 03-01-2016 08:36 PM by XYMOX_4AD_84 [at joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,073]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
Heading out to caucus for Bernie!
Feel the Bern! BTW - VT's been called - Sanders won it.

Meanwhile, VA is going to be interesting. With only some notoriously Red counties reporting thus far, Trump is only ahead of Rubio by single digits. When the NoVA counties get tallied, this will be interesting. Trump may actually lose VA.







Post#2585 at 03-01-2016 09:01 PM by XYMOX_4AD_84 [at joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,073]
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It's going to be a long night in VA. The typical pattern is manifesting. All the "Johnny Reb" areas are predictably going for Trump meanwhile the inner NoVA areas and other "urban" core cities are going for Rubio. M&L will no doubt have some pointed commentary.







Post#2586 at 03-01-2016 09:49 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by XYMOX_4AD_84 View Post
It's going to be a long night in VA. The typical pattern is manifesting. All the "Johnny Reb" areas are predictably going for Trump meanwhile the inner NoVA areas and other "urban" core cities are going for Rubio. M&L will no doubt have some pointed commentary.
Other than NoVA, the entire state is RED, though some parts are more RED than others. The large military bases in Tidewater actually make the place less RED than some of the rural and exurbs ... but Tidewater is still RED. So is Richmond, outside the city proper. So we'll see. The cities typically report last.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#2587 at 03-01-2016 09:59 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Boy, Hillary is giving the best speech I've heard her give that I can remember. Bravo! She's got the mojo after all!

"Make America whole again" Trump says, "I don't know what that's about." Yeah, I know he wonders about that.

"Florida is amazing place to invest; we have employees all over the country" "How great a country we have built." No wonder, just no wonder he likes his fellow oligarch Mr. Trump. Trump want to put his name on the statue of liberty. He wants to own the country.
Last edited by Eric the Green; 03-01-2016 at 10:49 PM.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#2588 at 03-01-2016 10:44 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Bernie isn't quite doing what he needed to do. He is coming close in Massachusetts, as he did in Iowa and Nevada. But unless blacks suddenly feel the Bern, he can't win unless he wins states like Massachusetts. He has some better states coming, now that the southern super tuesday scheme to boost the "moderates" has past. But so far he hasn't sealed the deal in the other kinds of states he needs to win. But he'll stay in to make sure that Clinton and her party keeps veering left.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#2589 at 03-01-2016 10:56 PM by XYMOX_4AD_84 [at joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,073]
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Rubio came really close in VA. A portent of other purple and blue states as this thing unwinds.

I think the MSM are partially to blame for Trump doing as well as he has. They keep writing shit like "sailing to the nomination" - hey, nice exaggerated language to get lots of clicks from idiots.

People like Carson and Kasich can't sustain much longer without doing better.

Now of course Cruz will stay in since he's actually won some states. In any case, when we get some other Virginias, and there is a less crowded field, Trump may get trumped.







Post#2590 at 03-01-2016 11:38 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Kasich had to do well in Massachusetts, Minnesota, and Virginia to have much credibility going into next week.

At this point, Google has Trump with fully half the committed delegates already distributed.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#2591 at 03-02-2016 12:08 AM by MordecaiK [at joined Mar 2014 #posts 1,086]
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Quote Originally Posted by XYMOX_4AD_84 View Post
Feel the Bern! BTW - VT's been called - Sanders won it.

Meanwhile, VA is going to be interesting. With only some notoriously Red counties reporting thus far, Trump is only ahead of Rubio by single digits. When the NoVA counties get tallied, this will be interesting. Trump may actually lose VA.
Trump is keeping his lead in VA.







Post#2592 at 03-02-2016 12:08 AM by MordecaiK [at joined Mar 2014 #posts 1,086]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
Kasich had to do well in Massachusetts, Minnesota, and Virginia to have much credibility going into next week.

At this point, Google has Trump with fully half the committed delegates already distributed.
Rubio is getting Minnesota. Kasich may win---Vermont!







Post#2593 at 03-02-2016 12:10 AM by MordecaiK [at joined Mar 2014 #posts 1,086]
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Quote Originally Posted by XYMOX_4AD_84 View Post
Rubio came really close in VA. A portent of other purple and blue states as this thing unwinds.

I think the MSM are partially to blame for Trump doing as well as he has. They keep writing shit like "sailing to the nomination" - hey, nice exaggerated language to get lots of clicks from idiots.

People like Carson and Kasich can't sustain much longer without doing better.

Now of course Cruz will stay in since he's actually won some states. In any case, when we get some other Virginias, and there is a less crowded field, Trump may get trumped.
If we are looking for a real portent, about 100,000 more voters in VA voted in the Republican Primary than in the Democratic Primary. Could this mean VA could go Republican?







Post#2594 at 03-02-2016 12:24 AM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by MordecaiK View Post
Rubio is getting Minnesota. Kasich may win---Vermont!
I'm surprised by Rubio here in MN, I thought Trump was going to win here for sure.

Bernie is ahead here, and he won my precinct. Though only 15% of the results are in and I am holding my breath.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#2595 at 03-02-2016 12:26 AM by XYMOX_4AD_84 [at joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,073]
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Quote Originally Posted by MordecaiK View Post
If we are looking for a real portent, about 100,000 more voters in VA voted in the Republican Primary than in the Democratic Primary. Could this mean VA could go Republican?
I would not be surprised to find many of the 100K are "former" members of The Southern Party, American National Socialist Party, or any number of other "rightist" fringe parties. I put "rightist" in quotes because a true rightist is all for protecting core institutions, king, country, what have you, from all but the most legitimate attacks. Many of these "rightists" are violent revolutionaries just like the Nazis of the 1930s.
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#nevertrump







Post#2596 at 03-02-2016 12:28 AM by XYMOX_4AD_84 [at joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,073]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
I'm surprised by Rubio here in MN, I thought Trump was going to win here for sure.

Bernie is ahead here, and he won my precinct. Though only 15% of the results are in and I am holding my breath.
I think we are going to see a highly contested GOP convention. It's going to get ugly.
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#nevertrump







Post#2597 at 03-02-2016 01:20 AM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Minnesota called for Sanders by a landslide!

Quote Originally Posted by XYMOX_4AD_84 View Post
I think we are going to see a highly contested GOP convention. It's going to get ugly.
The GOP voting patterns here in MN are interesting, the Twin Cities Metro voted for Rubio while the rest of the state went for Cruz, apparently the suburban "fucking cake eaters" in places like Edina outvoted the rural religious conservatives voting for Cruz and the blue collar folks supporting Trump.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#2598 at 03-02-2016 01:26 AM by Classic-X'er [at joined Sep 2012 #posts 1,789]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
I notice that you totally ignored the arguments in favor of blustering-on. The point you argued originally had to do with the success of your business not being subsidized, and I think I showed quite well that it is. The libertarian ideal does not and never has existed in history, except for a few isolated souls who chose to live as mountain men. Other than those few, the rest of us rely on one another, and government is the most holistic tools we have to do that on a large scale.
This ought to be interesting, how is the business being subsidized? The business doesn't receive government subsidies or free government money in the form of grants. KEEP IN MIND, YOU ARE SPEAKING WITH A US TAXPAYER WHO PAYS TAXES TO ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT WHICH SUPPORTS THE THINGS YOU'VE BEEN USING FOR AN ARGUMENT. The US Constitution is a legal document and a clear representation of libertarian ideals that exists in America. Libertarian ideals and the laws associated with them pertaining to government and the people are what allows us to be different people and oppose one another without having to kill each other. It's OK to be a communist, promote communism, profess communist visions and ideals within America as long the communist is able recognize and respect the libertarian ideals and principals that govern over them and the larger libertarian population that still value and support them. Bob gets it. Why aren't you getting it?
Last edited by Classic-X'er; 03-02-2016 at 01:32 AM.







Post#2599 at 03-02-2016 01:27 AM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
I'm surprised by Rubio here in MN, I thought Trump was going to win here for sure.

Bernie is ahead here, and he won my precinct. Though only 15% of the results are in and I am holding my breath.
I would have expected Kasich to fare much better in Minnesota than he did. Or is Michelle Bachmann the reality of the Republican Party in Minnesota now?
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#2600 at 03-02-2016 01:44 AM by Classic-X'er [at joined Sep 2012 #posts 1,789]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
Minnesota called for Sanders by a landslide!



The GOP voting patterns here in MN are interesting, the Twin Cities Metro voted for Rubio while the rest of the state went for Cruz, apparently the suburban "fucking cake eaters" in places like Edina outvoted the rural religious conservatives voting for Cruz and the blue collar folks supporting Trump.
I don't think most of us (Trump voters) cared about the caucus. We are busy people with other things to do at this point. I'm not surprised the suburbs went heavily for Rubio. He's my second choice at this point.
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