Originally Posted by Kinser79

That would be amusing. However, we'd have to find a Boomer other then Eric for that. It would only be an interesting argument if all three actually had decent taste. Bieber is not classic rock, whatever he does is not even music, well unless you consider animals screeching in pain to be music.

This review should help expose what exactly my views on You-Know-Who (probably should call him that--its comparing Voldemort [who is sort of cool in a villain way] with a castrato) A real review of one of "his" songs.

Also I would say about hip-hop, that yes I do listen to hip-hop, but not anyone that has ever been signed on a major label. I actually happen to listen to a great deal more grunge and "alternative". Of course my music collection (except for underground rap) hasn't expanded since about 2002.

Your musical views certainly match your philosophical views. Totally shallow, indeed.

(Marx and Lennon)
I have to enjoy the bizarre image of a core Boomer of the classic rock generation arguing music with a late Xer from the hip-hop generation, where the Jonser punk-rocker tries to mediate between them. Truly precious.

Yes, it would be even more bizarre than usual, since I am a core boomer who likes classic rock AND Justin Bieber/Owl City etc., and the Joneser in question likes 3T music that is just as bad as the late Xer's hip hop. And in fact there won't really BE any "arguments" over music between me and kinser. There has to be something in common between two people in order for any mediation to have any chance. In the case of Mr. Rags, he and I do have an appreciation for classic rock in common; that much is true.

Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62

Sure. Everyone has a unique worldview.

No, the issue is that you tend to judge the shape of the world by your own personal fortunes. Now, I believe you are one out of how many now? 7 billion?

As you say, "nice dodge." It was a question asking specifically how Xer's had a negative affect on culture.

What I wrote, however clearly alludes to an answer.

Yes it is used "here". The consensus here is that is the moniker of the X/Millie cusp.

GenX is a generation , "here".
Y is the designated moniker of the X/Millie cusp.

The consensus "here" is wrong. The general usage is correct. A generation cannot have two conflicting names.

I know of nobody here that designates Jonesers or Y'er as a generation, but a transition or if you will , an inflection point where one generation transitions into another. It's all a POV. If one is of the mind that generations are discrete/binary entities, then yeah, no such thing as a Joneser or a Yer. OTOH, if one considers generations as analogue then cusps as defined ash such: (a transition/inflection) set of cohorts that mark the transition from one generation to another. Rationales: regional differences when turnings hit, upbringing, rural vs. urban, etc. Take the year set of (1952,1962,1972 ( obligatory winky for Vandal), 1982(oblgitory winky for JohnMc),1992) you get a nice core/cusp/core/cusp/core.

Cusps are for much fewer years than cores. And being on a cusp, does not change which generation you are; it just qualifies it. Clear now?

I beg to differ. Here's an example of something quite prescient. Enjoy.

From the thumbnail alone I gather I would not "enjoy." NO thanks. When you appreciate Bieber, I'll appreciate 3T metal. In other words, it won't happen.

Kinser and I have really similar musical eras. I was more punk than grunge, and my delving into hip hop was a little later (also, I do have a taste for some of the older mainstream stuff like Wu-Tang Clan, Tribe Called Quest and Busta Rhymes). But yeah, very similar.

Originally Posted by Kepi

Kinser and I have really similar musical eras. I was more punk than grunge, and my delving into hip hop was a little later (also, I do have a taste for some of the older mainstream stuff like Wu-Tang Clan, Tribe Called Quest and Busta Rhymes). But yeah, very similar.

I would argue that Wu-Tang Clan is a genre unto itself.

It is possible that we are the inverse of each other musically Kepi. I started moving toward grunge and alternative as well as punk in my later teens (my mother got a job in the South so we moved) after being basically brought up around hip-hop (itself an outgrowth of the block party culture of the late Awakening and early Unraveling).

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Your musical views certainly match your philosophical views. Totally shallow, indeed.

ROFLMAO!

Coming from someone who has a tribute thread to "The Castrato" is hillarious. At least when the folks I listen to have overtly sexual lyrics they have the deepness of voice necessary to not sound like a first grader asking their teacher to marry them.

Originally Posted by Kinser79

ROFLMAO!

Coming from someone who has a tribute thread to "The Castrato" is hillarious. At least when the folks I listen to have overtly sexual lyrics they have the deepness of voice necessary to not sound like a first grader asking their teacher to marry them.

You prove my point. Calling him what you did, and alluding to his high pitch; usual stupid shallow judgments. You look at reality, and you look at music, and can neither hear nor see it.

Maybe the nomad/civic cusp is the Nadir of cultural taste. Quite plausible.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

You prove my point. Calling him what you did, and alluding to his high pitch; usual stupid shallow judgments. You look at reality, and you look at music, and can neither hear nor see it.

Maybe the nomad/civic cusp is the Nadir of cultural taste. Quite plausible.

If not being tone deaf is a nomad/civic cusp trait, I'll accept that. But yes The Castrato's voice is grating on the nerves of anyone who isn't deaf, you, or a 14 y/o girl.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

You prove my point. Calling him what you did, and alluding to his high pitch; usual stupid shallow judgments. You look at reality, and you look at music, and can neither hear nor see it.

Maybe the nomad/civic cusp is the Nadir of cultural taste. Quite plausible.

Or he just prefers a different timbre than you do. I thought Prophets were the ones for taking the moral high road.

~Chas'88

Originally Posted by Chas'88

Or he just prefers a different timbre than you do. I thought Prophets were the ones for taking the moral high road.

~Chas'88

Chas Boomers only take the "moral high road" when it suits them. They can be very nomad-like in that aspect. But this digresses into Mega-Saeculum theory with the current saeculum being an unraveling.

Originally Posted by Kinser79

Chas Boomers only take the "moral high road" when it suits them. They can be very nomad-like in that aspect. But this digresses into Mega-Saeculum theory with the current saeculum being an unraveling.

Which it isn't.

The last saeculum was anything but an awakening (as far from it as conceivable), and the civil war saeculum was anything but a high. Our unravelling is an unravelling; that's all.

Originally Posted by Kinser79

If not being tone deaf is a nomad/civic cusp trait, I'll accept that. But yes The Castrato's voice is grating on the nerves of anyone who isn't deaf, you, or a 14 y/o girl.

Yes, being tone deaf is a nomad/civic cusp trait (that is what you said, right? )

Why would you call him castrated?

Originally Posted by Chas'88

Or he just prefers a different timbre than you do. I thought Prophets were the ones for taking the moral high road.

~Chas'88

Timbre is irrelevant; that's the point; or had you heard me say it, how many times now? Several hundred? Unlike you guys, I take music for what it is, not for who else listens to it. And I actually listen too. That's an aesthetic high ground, at least; even if I'm not very polite toward those like kinser who have no taste; zero, zilch, worse than nada. And post-modern lowest common denominator everyone-is-the-same thinking is not a moral high ground. So there.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Which it isn't.

The last saeculum was anything but an awakening (as far from it as conceivable), and the civil war saeculum was anything but a high. Our unravelling is an unravelling; that's all.

This saeculum is no awakening. No new ideas came from the Boomers, in fact all current ideas are hold overs from the Missionaries. It is as Mega-Unraveling as it gets, and we will be plunged into our Mega-Crisis soon. These are facts Eric. But I know your relationship with facts and reality is tenuous at best.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Yes, being tone deaf is a nomad/civic cusp trait (that is what you said, right? )

Why would you call him castrated?

I said not being tone deaf. If one cannot appreciate the smoothness of Kurt Cobain's singing one must be tone deaf. It takes a practiced ear to hear beautiful shades of gray.

Think on this for a second, The Castrato is supposed to be 18 or 19 something like that right, yet his voice has yet to break. Seriously I've met six year olds with deeper voices. Enough said.

ETA: Of course there is always the possiblity that his name isn't really "Justin" but rather "Justine". It wouldn't shock me if that were the case either--I've met manlier lesbians.

Originally Posted by Kinser79

This saeculum is no awakening. No new ideas came from the Boomers, in fact all current ideas are hold overs from the Missionaries. It is as Mega-Unraveling as it gets, and we will be plunged into our Mega-Crisis soon. These are facts Eric. But I know your relationship with facts and reality is tenuous at best.

I don't think this saeculum is an awakening. I don't think there are any mega-saeculums. It is an unprovable and untenable speculation. The only long cycles that make sense are astrological ones.

I said not being tone deaf. If one cannot appreciate the smoothness of Kurt Cobain's singing one must be tone deaf. It takes a practiced ear to hear beautiful shades of gray.

Enough said. If you like Kurt's voice, you are tone deaf. If you don't like JB's, you are tone deaf. Nuff said.

Think on this for a second, The Castrato is supposed to be 18 or 19 something like that right, yet his voice has yet to break. Seriously I've met six year olds with deeper voices. Enough said.

It must be that the only song you have ever heard of his is Baby, and you just assume that's the only song he ever did, or ever will do. In any case, his performance on that song and all of his early songs was excellent anyway, high voice or not doesn't matter.

ETA: Of course there is always the possiblity that his name isn't really "Justin" but rather "Justine". It wouldn't shock me if that were the case either--I've met manlier lesbians.

I bet within a few years, if not sooner, he will be voted the sexiest man alive. Then you'll have to eat your words. You should already eat them. And the way you knock him indicates a degree of homophobia on your part, as well as complete ignorance. And I wouldn't call him that to his face if I were you. He would eat you alive in two seconds if you ever tangled with him.

@ Kinser - Actually it sounds as though we are kinda the inverse of eachother.

@ Eric, the real significant difference between the 2T and 3T in terms of music as a whole was beat. 2T music was produced to put vocals in the forefront, guitars and color instruments at mid, and drums and bass as background.

Early 3T dropped back the vocals, but kept them at a forefront (just less of one) put guitar and drums in the midground, and dropped bass back (with the exception of hip-hop, which was bass centric, and often over pronounced the bass so that it was just part of the beat). By mid 3T, the entire musical range was pushed up to mid, and the vocals were just slightly higher.

Now, 2T music is usually what people cut their teeth on, and it's why so few people can carry a beat.

I don't think this saeculum is an awakening. I don't think there are any mega-saeculums. It is an unprovable and untenable speculation.

If you want to get technical so is generational theory. That said the possiblity of a cycle within a cycle within a cycle is very much a possiblity. By my calculations if mega-saeculums exist, which history itself following the S&H model for saeculums, seems likely then this would be a Mega-Unraveling.

I've been studying the history of China recently--it seems that they have gone through repeated mega-cycles in their 5000+ year long history. The pattern is the same, the nation unifies, grows strong, degenerates, then becomes dis-unified. Rinse, Repeat.

The only long cycles that make sense are astrological ones.

Please tell me that's a type for "astronomical". Oh wait, never mind I forgot who I was posting to.

Astrology is absolute horse shit. Actually its worse than horse shit. At least you can plow horse shit into a field as fertilizer.

Enough said. If you like Kurt's voice, you are not tone deaf. If you like The Castrato's, you are tone deaf. Nuff said.

There fixed that for you.

It must be that the only song you have ever heard of his is Baby, and you just assume that's the only song he ever did, or ever will do.

Actually Baby is not the only song of The Castrato's I've heard. Which is unfortunate. I happen to be related to a 13 y/o girl who thinks he's wonderful. Fortunately she has enough sense to not play that garbage in my ear shot. I won't hesitate to confiscate her ishit until my cousin can come by and take his obnoxious spawn off my hands.

That said what little I've heard sounds all alike and it is all uniquely terrible.

In any case, his performance on that song and all of his early songs was excellent anyway, high voice or not doesn't matter.

High voice does matter if you are claiming to have meat and potatoes. His early songs and his current songs that I've heard are emotionless drivel and over produced. Which merely points out that they were all recorded after 2002 by a major label.

I bet within a few years, if not sooner, he will be voted the sexiest man alive.

That was said of the New Kids on the Block too. Didn't happen. In a few years his fans will find someone who actually has some testosterone to drool over.

And the way you knock him indicates a degree of homophobia on your part,

You are accusing me of homophobia. That is absolutely hilarious. You know what, I just showed that to my boyfriend and he pissed his pants he's laughing so hard. Considering that I've been active in the Gay Rights movement for the better part of a Decade I don't think I have to worry about your accusation of homophobia will damage my credentials.

Now the way you talk about how sexy he is...well about that I'm concerned.

And I wouldn't call him that to his face if I were you. He would eat you alive in two seconds if you ever tangled with him.

What would he do? Screech at me? Call his security goons? Seriously Eric, I was in the Navy. I trained for war. What is that little boy going to do to me?

In all seriousness it was hard to post this response. Your statements just simply are too ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Kepi

@ Kinser - Actually it sounds as though we are kinda the inverse of eachother.

Figured as much.

Originally Posted by Kinser79

If you want to get technical so is generational theory. That said the possiblity of a cycle within a cycle within a cycle is very much a possiblity. By my calculations if mega-saeculums exist, which history itself following the S&H model for saeculums, seems likely then this would be a Mega-Unraveling.

What calculations? I don't see any. There is no basis nor any evidence that mega-saecula exist or that this is a mega unraveling.

There fixed that for you.

You are the epitome of bad taste.

Actually Baby is not the only song of The Castrato's I've heard. Which is unfortunate. I happen to be related to a 13 y/o girl who thinks he's wonderful. Fortunately she has enough sense to not play that garbage in my ear shot. I won't hesitate to confiscate her ishit until my cousin can come by and take his obnoxious spawn off my hands.

That said what little I've heard sounds all alike and it is all uniquely terrible.

You aren't even listening. Your 13 year old relative is right. It is your taste that is uniquely terrible.

High voice does matter if you are claiming to have meat and potatoes.

I have no idea what this sentence means.

His early songs and his current songs that I've heard are emotionless drivel and over produced. Which merely points out that they were all recorded after 2002 by a major label.

That "overproduction" in his case is expert musical arranging. His early and recent songs are all wonderful, and totally unlike the other pop songs "recorded after 2002 by a major label." What other songs of his have you listened to? I bet you could not name a single one if you heard it except Baby. Emotion? A fan of hip hop and other ridiculous Xer music, completely without substance? What would you know about emotion? That's a good one.

That was said of the New Kids on the Block too. Didn't happen. In a few years his fans will find someone who actually has some testosterone to drool over.

"I'm here to stay" he sings in one of his songs. He says so. I believe him. He has proven himself beyond any doubt. Even this month he has released at least two more good acoustic romantic songs. He is wonderful; the best pop musical artist today, beyond any doubt. I don't mind saying so to fools like you who knock him because they can't hear any music.

You are accusing me of homophobia. That is absolutely hilarious. You know what, I just showed that to my boyfriend and he pissed his pants he's laughing so hard. Considering that I've been active in the Gay Rights movement for the better part of a Decade I don't think I have to worry about your accusation of homophobia will damage my credentials.

Now the way you talk about how sexy he is...well about that I'm concerned.

Then why do you accuse someone of being a lesbian and castrated? This is obvious sexual insecurity on your part. You talk like a 15-year old boy who is jealous of someone's success. You ought to be concerned for yourself with the absolutely ridiculous things you say. Why don't you just shutup about JB if you can't accept that people enjoy and respect his music?

What would he do? Screech at me? Call his security goons? Seriously Eric, I was in the Navy. I trained for war. What is that little boy going to do to me?

Fine, you just try it out and see how far you get. He will cream you in two seconds. You just show again how little you know about him. Go ahead and try, dude. YOU, in the Navy? That makes me fear for my country.

Your statements just simply are too ridiculous.

Back atcha.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Oh, and the music you posted was certainly sullen and depressing; not exhilarating in the least. I don't know if that's what you meant to show, but it certainly confirmed my point. And as bad as it was, it was better music than what followed in the 3T.

I don't play music because it's good, but to make a point. In the case of Ultravox and Roxy Music, I wanted to show how far away from the Awakening pop culture had already strayed by 1980-82 in regard to sound, imagination and aesthetics. Not everything was "sullen" during those years either of course (not that I understand why a 3T cannot begin during a mood of "sullenness").

Here's another case. Awakening? I really don't think so:
1982: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6f593X6rv8

And then it's this (speaking of being "sullen"?):
1981: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeG-hNXXy6I

And that (this one reverberated down the 80's too):
1982: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCca5mPMp9A

And them:
1979: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkOOCx8tT08

We could go on with more Pointer Sisters (since you forgot to note the link I provided in the previous message).
1980: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CIKNOiajU4
The 80's shopping bags betray the Non-Awakedness right away and the 80's beat is unmistakable, which relates it for instance to this:

1983: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gomCkCbKHA4

Which brings us directly to this:
1985: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAQSZhazYk8

And further on to this (it's essentially the same stuff all the way):
1986: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZjAantupsA

The "80's", which is the Unravelling par préference, began on the eve of the 80's, period! It certainly did not begin in the mid 80's, since if you interpret this as anything but the 80's in full swing, you are crazeee (check out the Kraftwerk influences, by the way!):
1984: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lz7nSkFhBP0

Such an un-80-ish sound and message? Of course, this one only rolled down the decade of pink yuppie suits and white limos:
1980: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GwjfUFyY6M

And yeah, aren't we "SULLEN"!
1980: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDSSGyPurmE
1979: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WB42LA-oOo

"Good times. These are fun, good times. Leave your cares behind"? Did someone mention something about almost a 20's mood concerning the early Unraveling as the world was shaking itself free of the Awakening? Yes, someone did.

Nevertheless, sullenness is not as bad a term to describe some aspects of the late 70's/early 80's period, but it's far from the whole story and to reiterate, I don't see why an Unraveling cannot be launched during a period of sullenness and economic recession. In fact, since a 3T is not least about shedding useless idealism, it only seems quite reasonable.

"Get with it!"

Originally Posted by Eric

No, the issue is that you tend to judge the shape of the world by your own personal fortunes. Now, I believe you are one out of how many now? 7 billion?

Yes, and there are 7 billion +/- worldviews.

Originally Posted by me

As you say, "nice dodge." It was a question asking specifically how Xer's had a negative affect on culture.

Originally Posted by eric

What I wrote, however clearly alludes to an answer.

If anything, it's a vague answer. Now of course in defense of Gen X in particular, I fail to see much in their collective life experience as a generation which would be conducive to what others think is a "positive" influence on culture in any event. During their childhood, society offered little for them to consider as positive roll models, competent adults (parents, teachers, what have you.) So, they grow up hardened and cynical. Cynicism can and does morph into outright nihilism. I can provide a recent case in point.

[ A policeman knocked on my door last week and informed me that a nuicense about my 2 dogs barking. Well, since this is the first I heard of this thing, I expected to receive a ticket. I didn't. I got an arrest warrant instead. (First screw up. ) A summons *should* have been the proper method of notification of the need to make a court date. I'd have no issue with that approach. An arrest warrant? OK, I got major pissed at that. Next, our city judge is a class A, asshole. He didn't let me present my case, but just wrote a slip stating, "next time, bigger fine". Finally, the ordinance referenced is vague. ]

Pertinent city codes"

Originally Posted by city code

For the purposes of this chapter, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings respectively ascribed to them:

NUISANCE: Unlawfully doing an act, or omitting to perform a duty, or any thing or condition, which either:

A. Annoys, injures, or endangers the comfort, repose, health, or safety of others;


B. Offends decency;


C. Unlawfully interferes with, obstructs, or tends to obstruct, or renders dangerous for passage, any lake or navigable river, stream, canal, or basin, or any public park, square, street, or other public property; or


D. In any way renders other persons insecure in life or in the use of property.


PRIVATE NUISANCE: Every nuisance not defined as a public nuisance.

PUBLIC NUISANCE: One which affects at the same time an entire community or neighborhood or any considerable number of persons, although the extent of the annoyance or damage inflicted upon the individuals may be unequal. (1980 Code § 21-1)

...
E. All unnecessary or unauthorized noises and annoying vibrations, including animal noises. (barking dogs here.)

...
6-1-3: MAINTAINING NUISANCE PROHIBITED:
It shall be unlawful for any person to cause, permit, maintain or allow the creation or maintenance of a nuisance. (1980 Code § 21-3)
(violation listed on warrant)

...

6-1-5: PERSON RESPONSIBLE:
Every successive owner of property who neglects to abate a continuing nuisance upon or in the use of such property, created by a former owner, is liable therefor in the same manner as the one who first created it. (1980 Code § 21-5)
(This would be me.)

Process
6-1-7: REMEDIES:
A. Public Nuisances: The remedies against a public nuisance are:

1. Prosecution on complaint before the municipal court.
2. Prosecution on information or indictment before another appropriate court.

3. Civil action.

4. Abatement:

a. By person injured as provided in 50 Oklahoma Statutes section 12.

b. By the city in accordance with law or ordinance. (1980 Code § 21-7)

Upon inquiry to the judge wrt to remedies the options given were:
a. Lock the dogs in the cellar. (I do not have a cellar.)
b. Get rid of the dogs. Not viable. I do not want to put my dogs down for obvious reasons.
c. The city code provides no guidelines wrt barking dogs. There is no "curfew", no time set for duration of barking, say 5 minutes, etc.

So obviously, given the asymmetric power of a judge vs. myself, the non violent option of "opting out" is in order. I shall purchase as much stuff possible from Amazon (including non perishable groceries) and drop out of the city's economy, thus indirectly also opt out of paying this asshole's salary. Also, since I think this judge is hopelessly compromised (nice to old ladies, but is rude to young men and folks of color), I'm also making file whose intended audience is the district court, not him. The appeal process has the knock on benefit of forcing the city's DA to waste a bunch of time attending a court that's in a different city (the county seat). This is an asymmetric relationship on my part. The time I spend in district court costs minimum wage / hour if that, but costs the city a lot more than that. Note: I would consider the "opt out" as a 2T meme. If this action were scaled up to a boycott, then the 2T meme is really clear. I certainly learned that idea from the 2T, not the 3T. The 3T meme of nihilism is sort of there. I basically don't care if I screw Wall Mart and the citiy's tax revenue over due to a compromised authority figure. I'd actually welcome a scaled up boycott of "shop local" in order to bring to the city's attention that the judge sucks. This part also highlights where the Nomad comes in: A loose or non existant relationship with civic entities (like cities.) That stuff is for Millies.

Originally Posted by me

Yes it is used "here". The consensus here is that is the moniker of the X/Millie cusp.

GenX is a generation , "here".
Y is the designated moniker of the X/Millie cusp.


The consensus "here" is wrong. The general usage is correct. A generation cannot have two conflicting names.

I know of nobody here that designates Jonesers or Y'er as a generation, but a transition or if you will , an inflection point where one generation transitions into another. It's all a POV. If one is of the mind that generations are discrete/binary entities, then yeah, no such thing as a Joneser or a Yer. OTOH, if one considers generations as analogue then cusps as defined ash such: (a transition/inflection) set of cohorts that mark the transition from one generation to another. Rationales: regional differences when turnings hit, upbringing, rural vs. urban, etc. Take the year set of (1952,1962,1972 ( obligatory winky for Vandal), 1982(oblgitory winky for JohnMc),1992) you get a nice core/cusp/core/cusp/core.

Cusps are for much fewer years than cores. And being on a cusp, does not change which generation you are; it just qualifies it. Clear now?

I never disagreed with the above.
A. I'd go further to state that the number of core cohorts > cusp1 + cusp2. Otherwise, the term, "generation" becomes rather meaningless.
B. Yes , since I stated a cusp != generation, then the definition you give is OK by me. If one goes by the definition of S&H, then sure, Jones would consist of 1958-1960 Boomers + 1961-1964 Xer's. IOW, no arugment.

I beg to differ. Here's an example of something quite prescient. Enjoy.

Even if it carries a "progressive" theme?

From the thumbnail alone I gather I would not "enjoy." NO thanks. When you appreciate Ratt, I'll appreciate 3T metal. In other words, it won't happen.

Nope. We'll just go along and get along with liking stuff like Zepplin/Jefferson Airplane/Crosby,Stills,Nash, and Young, etc. etc.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

What calculations? I don't see any. There is no basis nor any evidence that mega-saecula exist or that this is a mega unraveling.

Its a very simple calculation. Perhaps so simple that you can't even comprehend it. 1. The Revolutionary Saeculum established the US. (That may not be particularlly important internationally but it is for the US.) As such the Civil War Saeculum must have been a high saeculum. It was all about expansion of the Empire of Liberty. It was a saeculum about building up the country--its youth.

The Great Powers saeculum gave the country the Awakening it required. Political philosphies were born "Progressivism" and "Conservatism". We are still dealing with those two concepts to this day. (Young Adulthood for the nation)

The Millenial Saeculum was all about the war between two different ideologies, capitalism and communism. It doesn't get more unraveling than that. (The nation's middle age, its prime as it were.)

The comming saeculum will be the one where the US as we know it today dies. We will fragment, and then be reunified through it. Civilizations have a pretty consistent pattern of these things happening.

You are the epitome of bad taste.

I'm not the one who listen to The Castrato here.

You aren't even listening. Your 13 year old relative is right. It is your taste that is uniquely terrible.

The day I start listening to you, a fool, or to a child is the day I should be committed to the asylum. Should that ever happen I will have taken all leave of my senses.

I have no idea what this sentence means.

Then you are dumber than you look. I didn't think that was possible.

That "overproduction" in his case is expert musical arranging. His early and recent songs are all wonderful, and totally unlike the other pop songs "recorded after 2002 by a major label." What other songs of his have you listened to? I bet you could not name a single one if you heard it except Baby. Emotion? A fan of hip hop and other ridiculous Xer music, completely without substance? What would you know about emotion? That's a good one.

No, "Overproduction" is neither in his case, nor anyone else's case a mark of "expert musical arranging". It is a mark of low standards and a lack of talent.

Actually as to Xer music it is full of substance. Most Hip-Hop is political if you listen to Hip-hop not produced by the major record labels (which are essentially produced and sold to rich white suburban kids who use it to piss off mommy and daddy for latent racist reasons). And most alternative and grunge is very emotional. That emotion is generally depresion--but I suppose in Eric's world negative feelings do not exist and when they do they can be medicated away. Boomers do love their drugs.

"I'm here to stay" he sings in one of his songs. He says so. I believe him. He has proven himself beyond any doubt. Even this month he has released at least two more good acoustic romantic songs. He is wonderful; the best pop musical artist today, beyond any doubt. I don't mind saying so to fools like you who knock him because they can't hear any music.

So, The Castrato sings he's not going anywhere? I'm afraid his career really isn't up to him. When he stops selling mp3s or records, or whatever the hell people do with music these days (I stopped keeping up with technology a long time ago because I'm old and don't give a shit) the record label will drop him and his career will be over.

He's a boy crooner. His like come and go with the decades.

Then why do you accuse someone of being a lesbian and castrated? This is obvious sexual insecurity on your part. You talk like a 15-year old boy who is jealous of someone's success. You ought to be concerned for yourself with the absolutely ridiculous things you say. Why don't you just shutup about JB if you can't accept that people enjoy and respect his music?

You don't even know what a Castrato is do you. Well, Eric-the-ignoramus, how about a little music history lesson. Back in the day when Opera was the music of the masses (you know cause youtube hadn't been invented by a Millie or Xer yet) the female parts had to be played, but it was inapproprate for a female to play such parts due to social mores at the time. As such it was common for young boys who were exceptionally good at singing to be castrated to preserve their pre-pubescent and femine voice. Oddly they were fawned over by women at the time (I have no idea why).

As to the lesbian crack, it is pretty obvious. I've met more butch women than him. He is not a man, he is probably not even a boy. He is someone who has an obvious endocrine problem seeing as he obviously hasn't started puberty at 18 yet.

And no I don't think I'll be concerned about what I'm saying about The Castrato. What is he going to do? Sue me? Sorry free speech means I get to spout whatever opinions I like--expecially ones that you don't like.

Fine, you just try it out and see how far you get. He will cream you in two seconds. You just show again how little you know about him. Go ahead and try, dude. YOU, in the Navy? That makes me fear for my country.

Actually I'd fear for this country more if you had ever served. But back in the days when you could, you'd probably been section 8 anyway.

As to The Castrato, if he wants to fight me...he can find me, it isn't like I'm hiding. I have no reason to go out of my way to find him. After all he hasn't done me injury, his existence is merely annoying, hardly grounds for a gentleman's duel. Assuming he even has the equipment necessary to be a "gentleman".

Originally Posted by Kinser79

It is as Mega-Unraveling as it gets, and we will be plunged into our Mega-Crisis soon. These are facts Eric.

Opinions about an invented notion are facts? Methinks this is a case of present bias.

Originally Posted by Mikebert

Opinions about an invented notion are facts? Methinks this is a case of present bias.

Mikebert, if I were arguing with a normal person it would be, and I'd use a different tactic altogether. However, we are talking about Eric here.

Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62

Yes, and there are 7 billion +/- worldviews.

The point you're missing, is that a description of society at large (which IS possible, and is what T4T is) does not = the list of your own experiences.

I never disagreed with the above.
A. I'd go further to state that the number of core cohorts > cusp1 + cusp2. Otherwise, the term, "generation" becomes rather meaningless.
B. Yes , since I stated a cusp != generation, then the definition you give is OK by me. If one goes by the definition of S&H, then sure, Jones would consist of 1958-1960 Boomers + 1961-1964 Xer's. IOW, no argument.

That's good. My only point was that calling cusp2 of Xers, "Yers," is confusing and is not the general practice. The general practice is the Gen Y is a synonym for Millennials. I agree Millennials is a better name for Millennials, and that they prefer it. A better name for the X/Y cusp would be "explorers." I think if people here don't like my name for them, it might be a good project to pick another name for the X/Y cusp. Using letters is a good way of keeping track of whole generations, and it's a good practice to start, now that a generation has been given a letter. Generation A or Alpha will be a good name for the next prophets.

Even if it carries a "progressive" theme?

No, sorry.

Nope. We'll just go along and get along with liking stuff like Zeppelin/Jefferson Airplane/Crosby,Stills,Nash, and Young, etc. etc.

Going along and getting along is probably a good idea

"go ride the music"

Originally Posted by Kinser79

Its a very simple calculation. Perhaps so simple that you can't even comprehend it. 1. The Revolutionary Saeculum established the US. (That may not be particularlly important internationally but it is for the US.) As such the Civil War Saeculum must have been a high saeculum. It was all about expansion of the Empire of Liberty. It was a saeculum about building up the country--its youth.

You bother to defend this absurd notion against my obvious refutation, so I guess I have to churn out this tedious and obvious reply.

Wrong, totally. The empire didn't expand, or even exist; and nothing much was built. And it was about nothing much more than fighting one another because the country was founded on a false basis. And the predominant philosophy was romantic transcendentalism, more appropriate to awakenings than to spirit-dead, materialist, conformist first turnings. "Whoever would be a man, must be a non-conformist" could not be uttered in a Mega-First turning.

The Great Powers saeculum gave the country the Awakening it required. Political philosophies were born "Progressivism" and "Conservatism". We are still dealing with those two concepts to this day. (Young Adulthood for the nation)

Awakenings are about a spiritual revival. The Great Power Mega-Sac brought nothing but materialism. Awakenings expand individuality and creativity; the Great Power was about the opposite, collectivism, and turning people into machines. New philosophies were born because the early 1890s were the start of a whole cycle of civilization, not the awakening phase of America. America had different philosophies before 1892; not NO philosophy. America didn't get its first philosophy in 1892. And political philosophy is not what Awakenings are primarily about anyway. It is about spiritual philosophies, which you know nothing about.

The Millenial Saeculum was all about the war between two different ideologies, capitalism and communism. It doesn't get more unraveling than that. (The nation's middle age, its prime as it were.)

That war was not a culture war, so it was not an unravelling. The Millennial Saeculum was if anything a high, an apex of material power. It was "The American High" which the authors actually named the 1T in this saeculum.

And by the way the Cold War has been over since early in this saeculum's 3T. It wasn't even the dominant concern of the 3T of this "mega" 3T!

The people in their prime in middle age, during unravellings, are prophets. So you are saying the Millennial Saeculum was all about Boomers?

The comming saeculum will be the one where the US as we know it today dies. We will fragment, and then be reunified through it. Civilizations have a pretty consistent pattern of these things happening.

Yes, and it will just be the next 4T in America's history. We went through it before in the 1860s, and this will just be part 2 in the 2020s. And it will be over by the time the Millennial saeculum is over. (the "reuniting" will happen, as before, during the next 1T)

The only mega cycle that makes any sense, is a cycle pertaining to all of Western Civilization, of which the USA is just a recent part. The real turning points were the Renaissance/Age of Exploration, and the World Wars. 500 years.

I'm not the one who listen to The Castrato here.

No, because you have no taste, or even any willingness to listen to music at all.

No, "Overproduction" is neither in his case, nor anyone else's case a mark of "expert musical arranging". It is a mark of low standards and a lack of talent.

But the expert musical arranging of Bieber's music is a mark of talent and high standards, something you know absolutely nothing about.

Actually as to Xer music it is full of substance. Most Hip-Hop is political....

Musical substance has nothing to do with whether it is political or not. And Justin Bieber's "Pray" is the most substantive piece of music, politically and otherwise, of anything produced in the last 37 years. (at least in the pop field )

if you listen to Hip-hop not produced by the major record labels (which are essentially produced and sold to rich white suburban kids who use it to piss off mommy and daddy for latent racist reasons). And most alternative and grunge is very emotional. That emotion is generally depresion--but I suppose in Eric's world negative feelings do not exist and when they do they can be medicated away. Boomers do love their drugs.

Boomers with any sense don't mask their emotions away with drugs. Depression is not a good thing to listen to in music. You're right, that is the main emotion in Xer and 3T music, and it is not worth listening to. It is boring and (guess what) depressing. And you know what happened to the most famous purveyor of grunge. It was not an accident that this happened. Mere emotion is meaningless in music. 3T music is loud screaming and musty nothingness. Music on the other hand has form and sound. Good melody, arrangement and performance is missing, relatively speaking, in all 3T Xer pop music. But Maroon 5 is an example of a musical group that was able to adapt to the new 4T times, keep their Xer-ness, and yet still make some pop songs of beauty with real melody, sound and complex counterpoint, and sell millions doing it. Fun. is a good cusper who is doing it too. But you as usual are lost, with your ears up your ass.

So, The Castrato sings he's not going anywhere? I'm afraid his career really isn't up to him. When he stops selling mp3s or records, or whatever the hell people do with music these days (I stopped keeping up with technology a long time ago because I'm old and don't give a shit) the record label will drop him and his career will be over.

He's a boy crooner. His like come and go with the decades.

You don't even know what a Castrato is do you. Well, Eric-the-ignoramus, how about a little music history lesson. Back in the day when Opera was the music of the masses (you know cause youtube hadn't been invented by a Millie or Xer yet) the female parts had to be played, but it was inapproprate for a female to play such parts due to social mores at the time. As such it was common for young boys who were exceptionally good at singing to be castrated to preserve their pre-pubescent and femine voice. Oddly they were fawned over by women at the time (I have no idea why).

As to the lesbian crack, it is pretty obvious. I've met more butch women than him. He is not a man, he is probably not even a boy. He is someone who has an obvious endocrine problem seeing as he obviously hasn't started puberty at 18 yet.

And no I don't think I'll be concerned about what I'm saying about The Castrato. What is he going to do? Sue me? Sorry free speech means I get to spout whatever opinions I like--expecially ones that you don't like.

You apparently just spout opinions that I don't like, just because I don't like them. I'll probably put you on ignore again soon, if the entertainment value of sparring with an ignorant idiot wears off. Given your behavior towards me, I would not give odds that you might not get yourself in real trouble. You are so completely wrong in your perception of Justin Bieber, and in every detail too, that I bet you might piss someone else off with the same bullshit, and get yourself hurt; either by insulting him like that to others, or by insulting others that way.

As to The Castrato, if he wants to fight me...he can find me, it isn't like I'm hiding. I have no reason to go out of my way to find him. After all he hasn't done me injury, his existence is merely annoying, hardly grounds for a gentleman's duel. Assuming he even has the equipment necessary to be a "gentleman".

Just don't tempt fate. Don't make those comments about him anywhere near his presence. Or near anyone else, for that matter, about him or anyone else. Just a piece of friendly advice; ignore it at your own risk. He is the opposite of what you say he is. Underestimate him at your own peril.