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Thread: 2016-18: The nest step down. - Page 2







Post#26 at 05-09-2013 11:13 AM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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05-09-2013, 11:13 AM #26
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Regarding Eric's post, it should be noted that most people in the world were not part of the Boomer blue Awakening. But there is an assumption that people from very different cultures will act as if they were. (Which may be based in part in glossing over cultural differences, or simply being oblivious to them).
Last edited by TimWalker; 05-09-2013 at 12:40 PM.







Post#27 at 05-09-2013 11:18 AM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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As has been mentioned, we will see Western notions of human rights be repudiated.







Post#28 at 05-09-2013 11:36 AM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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Outside of the West, India and Japan have been the only large scale societies to practice democracy for any length of time. It has been commented that authoritarian regimes, such as Russia and China, will oppose Western attempts to push democracy on other countries. In fact, we could see a reverse of the WWII era, where democratic countries had to oppose the Axis powers. Since regime survival and national sovereignty would be the goals of these authoritarian regimes-and backed by the might of Russia and China-they would surely prevail.







Post#29 at 05-09-2013 11:47 AM by JordanGoodspeed [at joined Mar 2013 #posts 3,587]
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Cueing "westerners who prize cosmopolitanism."

Seriously, your idea of cosmopolitanism is a bunch of people of different skin tones singing Kumbaya off of one sheet of music: Yours.

The change that is going to slap you in the face is the point when we'll no longer be in a position to decide which faction of some other country's civil war should win, and when the parts of the Democratic Party constituency that are actually growing will no longer need to cozy up to aging hippies and champagne socialists in order to implement their own agendas. Consider the prop 8 vote a shot across the bow.
Last edited by JordanGoodspeed; 05-09-2013 at 12:41 PM.







Post#30 at 05-09-2013 12:55 PM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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Indeed...opposition to Western imperialism is probably about the only thing in common between ex-hippies and nonWestern governments.







Post#31 at 05-09-2013 01:02 PM by JordanGoodspeed [at joined Mar 2013 #posts 3,587]
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Well, for both of them, opposition to Imperialism only goes so far. It's great when YOUR values get to be imposed on other people, or YOUR enemies get crushed.

Also, given the extent to which both India and Japan have been largely one party states (for India on a national level at least) since the end of WWII, I wouldn't exagerate the democracy angle. It is certainly there, but it is different.







Post#32 at 05-09-2013 01:27 PM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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In terms of foreign policy, it's time to give the democracy thing a rest.
Last edited by TimWalker; 05-09-2013 at 01:39 PM.







Post#33 at 05-09-2013 01:31 PM by JordanGoodspeed [at joined Mar 2013 #posts 3,587]
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Well, I have a strong sentimental attachment to freedom and some form of democracy here at home, and would actually like more of it, but we certainly need to give the whole Team America: World Police thing a rest. It's counterproductive.







Post#34 at 05-09-2013 01:34 PM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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Quote Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed View Post
Well, for both of them, opposition to Imperialism only goes so far. It's great when YOUR values get to be imposed on other people, or YOUR enemies get crushed.

Also, given the extent to which both India and Japan have been largely one party states (for India on a national level at least) since the end of WWII, I wouldn't exagerate the democracy angle. It is certainly there, but it is different.
Coming from a nonWestern source, we may have seen an early hint in the proposal to switch from GMT to Mecca time. Perhaps in the coming years we will be exhorted to convert to Islam, or the Hindu religion, or embrace the Chinese concept of harmony.







Post#35 at 05-09-2013 01:38 PM by JordanGoodspeed [at joined Mar 2013 #posts 3,587]
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All sorts of things are possible, though I think that while the Political Architecture will change this turning, the real shifts in global culture and values away from the West will have to wait until the 2040s.

Personally, I am betting on the final disappearance of the tie and the spread of mao suit/nehru jacket types of formal wear. Finally, people in the future will dress the way they were always supposed to.







Post#36 at 05-09-2013 01:38 PM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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Quote Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed View Post
Well, I have a strong sentimental attachment to freedom and some form of democracy here at home, and would actually like more of it, but we certainly need to give the whole Team America: World Police thing a rest. It's counterproductive.
Other than giving oneself a sense of moral superiority, I can see nothing constructive coming from it.







Post#37 at 05-09-2013 01:43 PM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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Interesting comment about the clothing thing. I suppose the results would depend on the country. Japan largely, but not entirely, switched over to Western like styles-so are these now traditional?
Last edited by TimWalker; 05-09-2013 at 01:54 PM.







Post#38 at 05-09-2013 02:32 PM by Tussilago [at Gothenburg, Sweden joined Jan 2010 #posts 1,500]
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Quote Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed View Post
All sorts of things are possible, though I think that while the Political Architecture will change this turning, the real shifts in global culture and values away from the West will have to wait until the 2040s.

Personally, I am betting on the final disappearance of the tie and the spread of mao suit/nehru jacket types of formal wear. Finally, people in the future will dress the way they were always supposed to.
Nehru suits? Hey now, you know what Saville Row tailors have to say about Nehru collars!
http://www.englishcut.com/archives/000101.html
Last edited by Tussilago; 05-09-2013 at 02:39 PM.
INTP 1970 Core X







Post#39 at 05-09-2013 02:39 PM by JordanGoodspeed [at joined Mar 2013 #posts 3,587]
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Yes, but the whole point is that in a "post-Western world" nobody who matters will care what stuffy old white people think.

The old establishment didn't like rock and roll, either.







Post#40 at 05-09-2013 03:53 PM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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I don't care what stuffy old white people think.







Post#41 at 05-09-2013 04:00 PM by JordanGoodspeed [at joined Mar 2013 #posts 3,587]
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I'm looking forward to being a stuffy old white person.







Post#42 at 05-09-2013 04:50 PM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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BTW, did people in nonWestern countries sing Kumbaya during the Boom Awakening? I'm trying to imagine Arabs and Indians and Chinese people-dressed in traditional garb-belting out this song.







Post#43 at 05-09-2013 04:53 PM by Tussilago [at Gothenburg, Sweden joined Jan 2010 #posts 1,500]
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Me too. Detachable shirt collars and three piece bespoke suits are growing on me. Next time I go to England I'm seriously considering getting a Bowler hat. Now, how's that for "Hooligan" culture?
INTP 1970 Core X







Post#44 at 05-09-2013 06:46 PM by The Grey Badger [at Albuquerque, NM joined Sep 2001 #posts 8,876]
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Quote Originally Posted by TimWalker View Post
I don't care what stuffy old white people think.
I look in the mirror and say "Well, I care what this one thinks."
How to spot a shill, by John Michael Greer: "What you watch for is (a) a brand new commenter who (b) has nothing to say about the topic under discussion but (c) trots out a smoothly written opinion piece that (d) hits all the standard talking points currently being used by a specific political or corporate interest, while (e) avoiding any other points anyone else has made on that subject."

"If the shoe fits..." The Grey Badger.







Post#45 at 05-09-2013 07:01 PM by JordanGoodspeed [at joined Mar 2013 #posts 3,587]
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How do you feel about men in the future dressing like Dr. No, then?

Tussilago,

Who knows, if Western culture gets knocked off of its little perch after this 4T, there might be a bit of nostalgia for the Belle Epoque. Steampunk aesthetics could go mainstream.







Post#46 at 05-10-2013 11:54 AM by Tussilago [at Gothenburg, Sweden joined Jan 2010 #posts 1,500]
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Quote Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed View Post
How do you feel about men in the future dressing like Dr. No, then?
I think it could be cool. Kinda cyberpunk.

Tussilago,

Who knows, if Western culture gets knocked off of its little perch after this 4T, there might be a bit of nostalgia for the Belle Epoque. Steampunk aesthetics could go mainstream.
Indeed. Above all, I wish for "La Belle Epoque" when it comes to architecture.
INTP 1970 Core X







Post#47 at 05-10-2013 02:29 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Tussilago View Post
Indeed. Above all, I wish for "La Belle Epoque" when it comes to architecture.
We agree on that one.

As I see it, the architecture of the "change of age" period of the late 1880s-1890s-1900s, coming at the start of our new cycle of civilization, is still the wave of the future!
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#48 at 05-10-2013 02:44 PM by JordanGoodspeed [at joined Mar 2013 #posts 3,587]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
We agree on that one.

As I see it, the architecture of the "change of age" period of the late 1880s-1890s-1900s, coming at the start of our new cycle of civilization, is still the wave of the future!
God, I hope so. Modernist architecture has got to be one of the great crimes of the 20th century.







Post#49 at 05-10-2013 05:24 PM by JordanGoodspeed [at joined Mar 2013 #posts 3,587]
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Here is an article illustrating some of the processes that I think will lead to the climax of the crisis in the 2020s.







Post#50 at 05-10-2013 05:32 PM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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Quote Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed View Post
God, I hope so. Modernist architecture has got to be one of the great crimes of the 20th century.
It's all about pleasing the architects, and no one else.
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