Oh yeah I remember how popular Skateboarding used to be, now it seems to have headed back into the subculture underworld.
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Oh yeah I remember how popular Skateboarding used to be, now it seems to have headed back into the subculture underworld.
See, that's one thing about out culture that's totally changed. It used to be that "underground" refered to something that was done on shoe string budgets with very, very limited resources. When you talked about a subculture or the underground you were talking about something very small.
At this point I'd say subculture, especially the influence of subculture, is rivals the mainstream to the point where I frequently question of the mainstream is actually relevant to more than a niche audience itself. I've known far more people into various musical subgenres than I have the mainstream, and while most people know about the mainstream, it's because it's in the media forefront, not because most people actually like it.
In the context of skateboarding, it used to be a very niche, vocal audience with a very small amount of brands, limited store space, and almost zero in terms of appropriate places to skate. Now it's like... You can find a skate apparrel store in almost every mall, the brands are almost limitless both in terms of their ability to supply and the number of brandings, and most major cities and suburbs have a variety of skateparks public and private. Is there a major network TV contract for skating? No, but it's all over ESPN2, and the internet resources are vast.
So in terms of "the underground" at this point it's morre like... What value does going mainstream have to either fans or companies? You can more or less occupy about as large a market space as possible without it, and you don't have the lukewarmers all over the place messing up your underground scene.
I noticed this concept tended to disappear somewhere around the mid 00s. With the spread of the internet it became easier to find new cultures...however because they were so underground they seemed to completely avoid the mainstream. My high school experience was spent desperately searching for underground cultures to rival the godawful mainstream culture that existed at the time.See, that's one thing about out culture that's totally changed. It used to be that "underground" refered to something that was done on shoe string budgets with very, very limited resources. When you talked about a subculture or the underground you were talking about something very small.
At this point I'd say subculture, especially the influence of subculture, is rivals the mainstream to the point where I frequently question of the mainstream is actually relevant to more than a niche audience itself. I've known far more people into various musical subgenres than I have the mainstream, and while most people know about the mainstream, it's because it's in the media forefront, not because most people actually like it.
Hmm I remember this being the case for awhile, I actually bought a skateboard in the early 00s at wallmart once. I don't know if this is exactly what you're referring to, but I see plenty of brands that are tailor made to appeal to the "skater kids." Everything from shoes, to clothes, and so on. It's become a parody of itself.In the context of skateboarding, it used to be a very niche, vocal audience with a very small amount of brands, limited store space, and almost zero in terms of appropriate places to skate. Now it's like... You can find a skate apparrel store in almost every mall, the brands are almost limitless both in terms of their ability to supply and the number of brandings, and most major cities and suburbs have a variety of skateparks public and private. Is there a major network TV contract for skating? No, but it's all over ESPN2, and the internet resources are vast.
There is no value in anything mainstream these days, just look at the music industry. Sure...people are making money somewhere, they always are! However...music purchases are nowhere near where they used to be in the 90s or early 00s. There's no value in anything mainstream because the mainstream is the lowest common denominator.So in terms of "the underground" at this point it's morre like... What value does going mainstream have to either fans or companies? You can more or less occupy about as large a market space as possible without it, and you don't have the lukewarmers all over the place messing up your underground scene.
I bought a cd the other day, but it was from a totally obscure artist who never received any mainstream recognition and probably never will. Why? Because I genuinely wanted to support the guy and because most mainstream music is so bad that I've almost dropped out of modern culture altogether.
Originally Posted by Wiz83
It's pretty clear that if you were born before 1974, you had a very different video game experience then those born afterwards. Most of the people who were kids when Pong and atari came out didn't get sucked into video games as much as those who were kids when nintendo and sega genesis came out. Games got a lot better in the 90s and those who were still kids or young adults were a lot more easily hooked on them. By the end of the 90s, it was a pretty mainstream past-time.
'79 Xer, INTP
Skateboarding along with Cycling used to be X-treme!
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
I'd say semi-mainstream. You still had to be a certain age for it to be acceptable, and even then it wasn't really cool to get really, really into it to folks who didn't play. Most girls hated it, and not in a "I think you're a dork" way but in a "I percieve this as a threat" way. Gaming wasn't particularly legitimized as a normal behavior until about 05ish I'd say. As periphrial heavy games like Rock Band and casual facebook games became normal.
What's really weird is movies like Mallrats. When that movie came out I saw the two main characters as they were supposed to be portrayed: loveable losers and the women they were dating as having legitimate complaints. As time's gone by, the male protagonists seem somewhat more normal, and fun, while the women were extremely bitchy. That's just the way our culture has gone. Keep in mind I was a teenager when that movie came out, I was into comics and videogames and still thought those guys were losers, not as a point of dislike, but as a point of fact. That's just how things changed.
Another subculture that is now way too out there in the public eye for me is the Goth scene.
I was a Goth well before there were any true labels for it. Specifically in the mid 80's when everyone else was doing big hair and mini skirts and cute little white Keds, I was wearing beat up black peasant skirts, lacey frothy shirts of the poet variety in blacks, mauves and burgundy varieties with Doc Marten 16 hole boots. I have never tanned a day in my life. Sunburn and freckles are not my idea of a fashion statement. I am way too pale to do it. So I choose clothing for sun protection, and usually that was what I found was Goth style stuff. I like it and it looks good on me.
I am still Goth and at 38, well I don't see it changing much over the next few years. I like the styles and no one at my job complains about my attire. It's all covered up and the Goth clothes actually take a hell of a beating and keep on going. My employer really likes that I never have to be told to wear steel toe leather boots. Little does the guy know that the Docs have been a fashion staple in my wardrobe for eons now. They rarely wear out so I don't mind spending 150 for a pair of boots I will be wearing 5 years from now.
The only thing I really dislike is the comparisons to being either "Abby" from NCIS or "Penelope Garcia" from Criminal Minds with my hair styles. It's odd no one really ever said much about my hair, I got looks, but nothing was ever said until those 2 shows came on TV. Now let's add in that I am a lab tech like one of those characters and well.....the comments never stop.
I remember when finding clothes for my look either came from creating them myself on a sewing machine, stringing together fashions ripped apart from mainstream and reworked on a sewing machine to create what I wanted.
Or hours spent dying the skirts to get the right shade of black and adding in safety pins and hooks with ribbons and lace to get a corset effect.
Now it's everywhere and it looks so mass produced and fake.
My hubby laughs at me for still making my clothes, dying my clothes and reworking my clothes same as I used to do years ago.
Although, I do have the side of the closet that houses perfectly normal "mom" clothes so that when dealing with Authority figures and the school I get no weird looks. I hate having to dip into that side of the closet. It's boring and bright. I have found pastels or too brightly colored clothing doesn't flatter my hair or skin tone and too many patterns make me want to pop Tylenol like candy.
So I completely get how skateboarding got ruined. I wish Goth would go back to underground and that NCIS would go off the air. Tired of hearing about Abby.
And now the Millennial version:
1982
8-bit: toddlerhood to elementary school
16-bit: elementary school/junior high
PS/N64: junior high/high school
PS2/Xbox/GC: college
1983
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PS2/Xbox/GC: high school/college
PS3/Xbox 360/Wii: college
1986
8-bit: toddlerhood/pre-school
16-bit: elementary school
PS/N64: elementary school/junior high
PS2/Xbox/GC: high school/college
PS3/Xbox 360/Wii: college
1987
8-bit: toddlerhood
16-bit: pre-school/elementary school
PS/N64: elementary school/junior school
PS2/Xbox/GC: junior high to college
PS3/Xbox 360/Wii: college
1988
16-bit: toddlerhood to elementary school
PS/N64: elementary school
PS2/Xbox/GC: junior high/high school
PS3/Xbox 360/Wii: college
1989
16-bit: toddlerhood to elementary school
PS/N64: elementary school
PS2/Xbox/GC: elementary school to high school
PS3/Xbox 360/Wii: high school/college
1990
16-bit: toddlerhood/pre-school
PS/N64: elementary school
PS2/Xbox/GC: elementary school to high school
PS3/Xbox 360/Wii: high school/college
1991
16-bit: toddlerhood
PS/N64: pre-school/elementary school
PS2/Xbox/GC: elementary school to high school
PS3/Xbox 360/Wii: high school/college
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PS/N64: toddlerhood to elementary school
PS2/Xbox/GC: elementary school/junior high
PS3/Xbox 360/Wii: high school/college
PS4/Xbox One/Wii U: college
1993
PS/N64: toddlehood to elementary school
PS2/Xbox/GC: elementary school/junior high
PS3/Xbox 360/Wii: junior high to college
PS4/Xbox One/Wii U: college
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PS/N64: toddlerhood to elementary school
PS2/Xbox/GC: elementary school
PS3/Xbox 360/Wii: junior high to college
PS4/Xbox One/Wii U: college
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PS/N64: toddlerhood/pre-school
PS2/Xbox/GC: elementary school
PS3/Xbox 360/Wii: elementary school to high school
PS4/Xbox One/Wii U: college
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PS/N64: toddlerhood
PS2/Xbox/GC: pre-school/elementary school
PS3/Xbox 360/Wii: elementary school to high school
PS4/Xbox One/Wii U: high school/college
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PS2/Xbox/GC: toddlerhood to elementary school
PS3/Xbox 360/Wii: elementary school to high school
PS4/Xbox One/Wii U: high school/college
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PS2/Xbox/GC: toddlerhood to elementary school
PS3/Xbox 360/Wii: elementary school to high school
PS4/Xbox One/Wii U: high school/college
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PS3/Xbox 360/Wii: elementary school/junior high
PS4/Xbox One/Wii U: high school/college
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PS2/Xbox/GC: toddlerhood to elementary school
PS3/Xbox 360/Wii: elementary school/junior high
PS4/Xbox One/Wii U: junior high to college
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2001
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PS3/Xbox 360/Wii: elementary school
PS4/Xbox One/Wii U: junior high/high school
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2002
PS2/Xbox/GC: toddlerhood
PS3/Xbox 360/Wii: pre-school/elementary school
PS4/Xbox One/Wii U: elementary school to high school
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2003
PS3/Xbox 360/Wii: toddlerhood to elementary school
PS4/Xbox One/Wii U: elementary school to high school
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Last edited by Wiz83; 07-27-2013 at 05:43 PM.
See, goth suffered a heavy, heavy culture drift. I'd say it was easily the most misunderstood and misused of the white awakening subcultures. When I was in highschool there was this set of kids who got called goth and self identified as goth, but just weren't goth. They had none of the musical trappings and only a few stylistic similarities.
Being a punk rock kid in highschool when columbine hit was quite an experience, because I knew what goth was, especially being a huge fan of both The Dead Kennedys front man Jello Biafra and Minor Threat/Fugazi front man Ian Mackaye (both of which did side projects with Al Jurgenson of Ministry (Lard and Pailhead respectively)). So seeing all these general freak kids, then seeing columbine and the just general backlash against a culture that was, at best, tangentally involved was weird.
My wife said she had some goth kids in highschool with her but they were all seniors when she was a freshman and after that, no more goth kids. In college, there were a couple. One was a good friend of mine, and I'd always rodie his shows when I could because 1) the music was alright and 2) he didn't drink so he'd pass the free keg beer benefit on to me. The shows were always so much smaller than punk shows on average. Don't get me wrong, I've seen some small, small shows (especially when ska was dying in 2001ish). But there was one where my friend was opening for Bella Morte and he was talking about how huge it was and it was maybe 250 people? 300 tops.
At the same time I was going to see groups like Kid Dynamite or the Bouncing Souls in clubs with capacities of 800-1000 people and filling them up. Maybe not totally sold out, but a huge difference. Even local only groups like The Daycare Swindlers could be expected to fill up a 400 person club pretty good on a weekend.
So you have this scene and what's weird about it is that unlike punk rock which was everywhere and very accessible, and it's culture was just bursting at it's seems everywhere, Goth would just come out of nowhere with these influences and inflections in everything. Like, it was everywhere but also nowhere all at once.
Punk keeps changing and evolving and it's a big umbrella that means a lot of things. Goth seems to kinda have a more static set of norms and a more static ethos, but man does it just stick and keep sticking all the while being nowhere. I mean, even ska kids don't dress the same as they used to, but on that rare occasion you see a real deal both kid walking around, it's fishnet undershirt, white print on black tshirt, black eye make-up and docs.
Kepi: I give you my favorite song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq7xyjU-jsU
and my new favorite band :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEN3mQ0ql30
By the way the fishnet undershirt isn't just for fun, it actually will keep you from sunburn AND allow you to not sweat to death at the same time. Pretty amazing if you ask me
Dude, Volbeat is amazing! It's this sort of metalized punk band with death rock/goth vocals. They're just so on point and so tight. A buddy of mine turned me on to them a couple years ago. Radio Girl is a personal favorite.
Oh yes!! Someone else here loves Bauhaus. They've been one of my favorite bands since college.
And thanks for the Volbeat link.
Oh yes!! Someone else here loves Bauhaus. They've been one of my favorite bands since college.
And thanks for the Volbeat link.
I love Bauhaus too, although I'm too young to remember the 80s...I've always been interested in dark ethereal sounds
Oh to be the Cream!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RndXUG8vh4
Since we're talking about dark 80s music...The Smiths are also one of my favorite 80s bands
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiFzKNmeeSw
Whenever I listen to All we Ever Wanted from Bauhaus I can't help but think of Back to the Old House by The Smiths.
Last edited by Felix5; 07-28-2013 at 03:43 PM.
I was born in 1981, so I think I'm even claser to that "Yer" divide than you. I think you hit the childhood pop culture divide right on the head. I remember watching Sesame Street and Reading Rainbow as a little kid, and making fun of Barney and the Teletubbies while in junior high. My only anomaly from your list above is that I do remember watching Power Rangers in fifth grade, but it was the very earliest version, with the prehistoric Zords and the cute Asian chick as the Yellow Ranger.
Quite a few actually and really the games grew up with Gen Xers and became more gritty and realistic. Most recently as Xers found themselves parents of school age children and games too have started to delve into parental relationships with younger characters, forcing the player to make uncomfortable morality choices impacting in-game characters they have bonded with during the course of the story. Hell even the tech demos now tell emotional and even deeply disturbing stories (brought a tear to my eye when I first saw it) that Hollywood wouldn't dare touch.
Last edited by Copperfield; 08-05-2013 at 11:43 PM.
I myself grew up in the age when pinball was the big thing. That seemed to gain popularity after the Who's song "Pinball Wizard" topped the charts. But I never really came close to becoming a pinball wizard myself, usually the game beat me. I was upset when the balls per game were lowered from five to three. Now it's hard to find authentic pinball games around. BTW, did any of you see the study that came out a week or so ago about a larger share of Millenials still living with their families because they can't get their own lives launched? This trend is diametrically opposed to that of the Boomers, who couldn't wait to strike out on their own. But we all know that there was more affordable housing in those days.
Affordable living is definitely the Millennial struggle in this crisis. The absurdity in how tight budgets are due to prices just makes everything different. Millennials obviously don't want to sit at home, but the reality is that if they don't in a lot of cases (and we're talking "graduated college" cases) all it'll lead to is bad credit.
My reaction to S&H saying that I am a part of the Power Ranger, not TMNT, generation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8k-obRa90k
Now it's hard to find authentic pinball games around. BTW, did any of you see the study that came out a week or so ago about a larger share of Millenials still living with their families because they can't get their own lives launched? This trend is diametrically opposed to that of the Boomers, who couldn't wait to strike out on their own. But we all know that there was more affordable housing in those days.
I used to play pinball tons of times as a kid, they used to be in restaurants and arcades. I haven't seen them in a really long time though
Why assume that we don't WANT to or can't WAIT to get out there. We're just stuck here...that's a huge difference. There are times where I think my father and brother are going to kill each
Why do people assume Millennials want to live at home? We just are, some may get along better with their parents. I know that's definitely not the case for my brother though, and hey there are times where I can't stand my parents either. It's more that we tolerate each other because we have to.
My reaction to S&H saying that I am a part of the Power Ranger, not TMNT, generation:
LOL, oh mine too...
I never got the power ranger thing it seemed too boyish for me. I kind of liked the very first power ranger season, but I don't think I ever watched the show beyond that. My older brother tended to dictate what we watched and didn't watch and after 93 or so, he was much too old for power rangers apparently.
Once again, you are sharing a part of my listening favourites as well.
