North Korea: Aide To Kim's Uncle 'Defects'

One of the most powerful men in North Korea is seeking asylum in South Korea after fleeing to China, according to reports.

10:27am UK, Friday 06 December 2013



A close aide of North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un's uncle - who has "disappeared" after being apparently sacked from his roles in the regime - is reported to have fled the country.

The unnamed defector is currently being protected by South Korean officials in a secret location in China, cable news network YTN said, citing an unidentified source.

......

China, Pyongyang's only major ally, usually resists allowing defectors from North Korea to seek asylum elsewhere.

If the reports are true, the defection would be the first time in years that an important insider from the Pyongyang regime has switched sides.

http://news.sky.com/story/1178665/no...e-defects?f=ob

(It's a Murdoch source -- so beware. reportedly, Sky News is far more trustworthy than FoX News.)

The People's Republic of China may have limits on what it tolerates in its neighbors.

Jang Song-thaek execution

Shocking new details have been revealed about the execution of Jang Song-thaek, Kim Jong Un's uncle.

The New York Times reports that the Jang's death was the end result of a brutal gun battle between Jang supporters and those of the regime over who controlled key land.

As the Times tells it, Kim's forces were ordered to take back control over important fishing grounds that Jang had previously seized, but Jang wouldn't give it up without a fight. The battle ended in the death of many of Kim's soldiers. Kim was furious and ordered that Jang's top aides be executed.

According to the Times, the two men were killed with antiaircraft machine guns rather than regular guns or rifles.

Yomiuri Shimbun, a Japanese newspaper, reported that Kim was “very drunk” when he ordered the death of Jang's men.

Earlier this month, Jang was executed for allegedly committing treason. Jang's death came as a shock to many who believed he was a close confidant to Kim. Jang was accused of corruption and substance abuse, among other crimes that could not be verified by Western media.

For more on the North Korea, head over to the New York Times.

THE execution of Jang Song Thaek, the No. 2 man in North Korea, took Beijing by surprise and will adversely affect bilateral relations.

Beijing's displeasure is expressed through the publication of a detailed account of Jang's brutal execution in Wen Wei Po, its official mouthpiece, in Hong Kong, on Dec 12.

According to the report, unlike previous executions of political prisoners which were carried out by firing squads with machine guns, Jang was stripped naked and thrown into a cage, along with his five closest aides. Then 120 hounds, starved for three days, were allowed to prey on them until they were completely eaten up. This is called "quan jue", or execution by dogs.

The report said the entire process lasted for an hour, with Mr Kim Jong Un, the supreme leader in North Korea, supervising it along with 300 senior officials.

The horrifying report vividly depicted the brutality of the young North Korean leader. The fact that it appeared in a Beijing- controlled newspaper showed that China no longer cares about its relations with the Kim regime.

http://www.straitstimes.com/the-big-...china-20131224

Comment: I can't imagine a more horrible way to die. Bears and big cats kill more quickly -- and even fire is swifter.

Murder by dog attack has been done -- in concentration camps in Nazi Germany.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

http://www.straitstimes.com/the-big-...china-20131224

Comment: I can't imagine a more horrible way to die. Bears and big cats kill more quickly -- and even fire is swifter.

Murder by dog attack has been done -- in concentration camps in Nazi Germany.

Slate is skeptical.

You can do a lot in journalism with the word “report.” For instance, see NBC’s “Kim Jong Un’s executed uncle was eaten alive by 120 hungry dogs: report”.

Did this really happen? We don’t know! Experts seem skeptical. It first appeared in English in the Singapore-based Straits Times, which cited a three-week old story in the pro-Beijing Hong Kong paper Wen Wei Po, which was itself pretty thinly sourced. Perhaps not quite grasping how the viral Internet works, the Straits Times reporter chose to lead with how the execution would “adversely affect bilateral relations” between North Korea and China rather than the naked man being eaten alive by ravenous dogs.


For what it's worth, a New York Times report from last month cited “South Korean intelligence officials and news media” reported that Jang Song-thaek’s aides were executed by anti-aircraft machine gun but that he himself was killed by “more traditional means.”


But we don’t know for sure that it didn’t happen. There have been other reports of exotic execution methods used against North Korean senior officials. Brutal torture is certainly common in the North Korean penal system.


Which brings us back to the central dilemma of following news out of the world’s most politically isolated country. The majority of the most outrageous stories we get filter out through defectors or experts with definite agendas to the South Korean or Chinese media and are then repeated by Western newspapers or blogs.


The North Korean government doesn’t bother to correct anything written about it abroad and it’s usually impossible for foreign outlets to independently verify whether, say, Kim Jong Un’s ex-girlfriend was executed for making a sex tape. So given the Internet’s insatiable appetite for weird North Korea stories, it becomes a bit of a free-for-all. The North Korean government does so many bizarre things we can confirm that a few of these dubious rumors must surely be true, right?


In any case, I'm still highly skeptical about this one. The NBC article with the headline above noted that “The report could not be independently confirmed by NBC News on Friday.” I wouldn’t hold my breath.

Weird stories involving North Korea are the norm.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

Weird stories involving North Korea are the norm.

What comes to my mind on these weird stories is Dennis Rodman's efforts at diplomacy. Do you think he is serious about wanting to achieve some, or just doing it for publicity's sake?

Originally Posted by Brian Beecher

What comes to my mind on these weird stories is Dennis Rodman's efforts at diplomacy. Do you think he is serious about wanting to achieve some, or just doing it for publicity's sake?

Dennis Rodman was a fine basketball player. Since then he has simply become increasingly weird.

If he were painting cats they would end up looking something like this about now:

http://art.vniz.net/wain/Wain-Blue_Cat_1.jpg

Having started with something comparatively realistic:

http://art.vniz.net/wain/Wain-Cat_in_the_Flowerbed.jpg

Source: http://art.vniz.net/en/wain/

The DPRK started out as and continues to be a laboratory in extremis for the Anti Western fiends.

Without ongoing support from the main players of the SCO, the DPRK would wither on the vine within 5 years or less.

The Anti Western fiends are experts at a multi shell, multi layered game. They have studied how to trick the Westerner. Smile big, slice quick.

North Korea's "Market Generation"

The Millennials who are coming of age in North Korea, according to an NPR report which interviewed several North Korean escapees in South Korea, reports that their generation in North Korea is one which has been made up of a hard-scrabble youth, one where they frequently were king pins of their own private black markets. One as a 13 year old had bought a house on the border of North Korea in order to not have her smuggling ring disrupted by her parents' potential interference. She was supposedly the kingpin of her own operations even at 13 which she continues to run now in South Korea.

According to the sources interviewed they're the most capitalistic and entrepreneurial generation alive within North Korea at this moment, and the escapees attest that the rest of their generation continue to think as they do within North Korea. It's stated that in order to get anything in North Korea one has to be involved in these black markets.

Supposedly this culture of black market growth and secret dealings began when border lock downs were loosened in the 1990s due to famine. As the lock downs fell, new markets began springing up--some legally sanctioned by the government and many other less so. Everyone supposedly participates in black market trading for everything from refrigerators to western movies. The girl mentioned at the top skimmed stuffed animals off the top as her payment on top of the money she got.

The Market Generation is marked by the North Koreans themselves as having no memory of a time before the black markets existed, or little enough that it barely registers that there were famine and hardship before (I'd actually like to see what an Idealist generation coming of age would be like where the 2T is defined by famine and hardship, something makes me think it'd be like the 1970s Disco Boomers only on steroids).

North Korea in the past decade has moved to counter this by extending education requirements and providing other activities for children to participate in that is designed to keep them busy, obviously focused on raising the next generation of Civics, which won't be the Millennial generation, but their version of the Homeland generation. Meanwhile the Millennial generation in North Korea has earned the name the "Market Generation" respectively, and I would likely defer to referring to that term when discussing Korean (especially North Korean) generations.

Not that it needed to be said, but Korea's Millennials are Nomads, and the Korean peninsula is most definitely still in its 3T (probably late stage at this point). We knew that about South Korea already (what with the popularity of Gangnahm Style being akin to the Macarena or the Ragtime Animal Dances and Charleston of the Great Power's 3T), but now there's confirmation that North Korea is as well.

Which makes me a little fearful about what their 4T will be when it comes, which now that we have a clearer picture of what makes North Korea in its 3T tick, will likely be whenever their black markets dry up.

~Chas'88

Great analysis, Chas. Since we seem on the same page so far, what are you thinking for the start of their 4T? Late 2010s-2020?

Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed

Great analysis, Chas. Since we seem on the same page so far, what are you thinking for the start of their 4T? Late 2010s-2020?

Somewhere in there to be sure.

SEOUL, South Korea — The North Korean leader Kim Jong-un ordered his front-line military units to go on a “semi-war state” on Friday after South Korea said the two Koreas had exchanged rocket and artillery fire in the first major armed clash across their border in five years.

No casualties were immediately reported from the exchange of fire that took place across one of the world’s most heavily armed borders on Thursday. But tensions remained high on Friday, as Mr. Kim ordered his front-line units to be prepared to attack South Korean loudspeakers along the border unless they stopped blaring propaganda broadcasts by Saturday evening.

South Korea, currently in the middle of large-scale joint military exercises with the United States, rejected the North Korean demand. Instead it stepped up its own military vigilance, vowing to retaliate against any provocations from the North.


Mr. Kim ordered all front-line units to go on a “semi-war state,” one of his country’s highest military alerts, from 5 p.m. Friday during an emergency meeting of his Central Military Commission, the north’s official Korean Central News Agency said on Friday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/21/wo...html?ref=world

I'm not posting the video -- but allegedly the United States faces serious consequences for slapping new sanctions against North Korea. Never mind that those consequences would require that North Korea fire a ballistic missile with more range than any that it has, that such a missile would require overflight of China, Russia, and Canada, any of which would buckle down to the US in the event of such an overflight. I hope that the Russians have some good anti-ballistic defenses left from the Cold War.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...m_hp_ref=world

My idea of a counter-video to the image of a simulated nuclear strike on Washington DC (and this one is ludicrous since it approaches the Lincoln Memorial from the Virginia side of the Potomac River, which would be the wrong way for a Great Circle approach which would bring it in from over Pennsylvania and Maryland). Think of this politically-incorrect hit



only with images of soldiers putting "Dear Leader" in a straitjacket as they take him off to a psychiatric ward.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

I'm not posting the video -- but allegedly the United States faces serious consequences for slapping new sanctions against North Korea. Never mind that those consequences would require that North Korea fire a ballistic missile with more range than any that it has, that such a missile would require overflight of China, Russia, and Canada, any of which would buckle down to the US in the event of such an overflight. I hope that the Russians have some good anti-ballistic defenses left from the Cold War.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...m_hp_ref=world

My idea of a counter-video to the image of a simulated nuclear strike on Washington DC (and this one is ludicrous since it approaches the Lincoln Memorial from the Virginia side of the Potomac River, which would be the wrong way for a Great Circle approach which would bring it in from over Pennsylvania and Maryland). Think of this politically-incorrect hit



only with images of soldiers putting "Dear Leader" in a straitjacket as they take him off to a psychiatric ward.

Are the consequences you mention coming from North Korea?
I continue to prefer a strong military to deter most attacks( won't work with irrational people).
It is clear that China is only country that could address the North Korea in the near term. I know that China does not want problems on their border, but is seems that they also enjoy seeing the West squirm in face on North Korean threats.

Originally Posted by radind

Are the consequences you mention coming from North Korea?
I continue to prefer a strong military to deter most attacks( won't work with irrational people).
It is clear that China is only country that could address the North Korea in the near term. I know that China does not want problems on their border, but is seems that they also enjoy seeing the West squirm in face on North Korean threats.

I've often wondered if our leaders might use a form of "broken record" discourse, whereby every single time the Chinese want something from us, we reply, "Sure, we'll consider that, as soon as you take care of that lunatic in North Korea."

Originally Posted by TnT

I've often wondered if our leaders might use a form of "broken record" discourse, whereby every single time the Chinese want something from us, we reply, "Sure, we'll consider that, as soon as you take care of that lunatic in North Korea."

Works for me.

Originally Posted by radind

Are the consequences you mention coming from North Korea?

The much-derided "Star Wars" (Strategic Defense Initiative, an anti-missile defense) that suggested that Ronald Reagan was crazy begins to look better.
I continue to prefer a strong military to deter most attacks( won't work with irrational people). If Russia or China has something like that, then that may be the best thing possible. Much of the approach will be over Russian air space.

It is clear that China is only country that could address the North Korea in the near term. I know that China does not want problems on their border, but is seems that they also enjoy seeing the West squirm in face on North Korean threats.

I suspect that the Chinese have a shadow government all set for insertion where appropriate and needed should any country from Iran to Japan do something stupid. The one most likely to be put into place is for North Korea. The second-most likely is for South Korea in the event that the North has invaded the South, and the People's Liberation Army is obliged to liberate more than the northern part of the Korean Peninsula.

China has been warming up to South Korea. Think about it: it is far safer to be a pro-Beijing Communist in South Korea than in North Korea.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

The much-derided "Star Wars" (Strategic Defense Initiative, an anti-missile defense) that suggested that Ronald Reagan was crazy begins to look better.
I continue to prefer a strong military to deter most attacks( won't work with irrational people). If Russia or China has something like that, then that may be the best thing possible. Much of the approach will be over Russian air space.



I suspect that the Chinese have a shadow government all set for insertion where appropriate and needed should any country from Iran to Japan do something stupid. The one most likely to be put into place is for North Korea. The second-most likely is for South Korea in the event that the North has invaded the South, and the People's Liberation Army is obliged to liberate more than the northern part of the Korean Peninsula.

China has been warming up to South Korea. Think about it: it is far safer to be a pro-Beijing Communist in South Korea than in North Korea.

I am big fan of ballistic missile defense. Anything is better than a nuclear exchange.
I could see China essentially taking over in North Korea. However, an attempt by China to control South Korea would be a good way to start a war( unless the US has just given up and plans to hibernate).

Originally Posted by radind

I am big fan of ballistic missile defense. Anything is better than a nuclear exchange.
I could see China essentially taking over in North Korea. However, an attempt by China to control South Korea would be a good way to start a war( unless the US has just given up and plans to hibernate).

The scenario which I suggest implies that North Korea had already invaded and largely conquered the South. The most likely neighbor with which China would go to war is North Korea.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

The scenario which I suggest implies that North Korea had already invaded and largely conquered the South. The most likely neighbor with which China would go to war is North Korea.

That is true. This is another way for major war to start. I hope that China makes some reasonable move to hold North Korea back first. War would not be good for their business ( at least not in near term).

Originally Posted by radind

I am big fan of ballistic missile defense. Anything is better than a nuclear exchange.
I could see China essentially taking over in North Korea. However, an attempt by China to control South Korea would be a good way to start a war( unless the US has just given up and plans to hibernate).

Who knows a lot about South Korea's position on their precariousness? Clearly, from a brutal "three yards and a cloud of dust" military approach, North Korea could mount a ferocious land-army across-the-DMZ attack that would no doubt be devastating.

Yet, this probably hasn't escaped South Korea's notice! Are they counting only on the U.S. to defend against that? Are they figuring on the U.S. providing a nuclear defense for them in that case?

There could be a LOT of scorched earth on both sides of the 38th parallel. And we don't have Dugout Doug to send, any more.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

The much-derided "Star Wars" (Strategic Defense Initiative, an anti-missile defense) that suggested that Ronald Reagan was crazy begins to look better.

I don't think so; it still remains true that a defense shield only encourages offensive innovation to beat it.

I continue to prefer a strong military to deter most attacks (won't work with irrational people). If Russia or China has something like that, then that may be the best thing possible. Much of the approach will be over Russian air space.

Great record from 1966. I wonder what those who analyze reverse speech can find in this. My Dad famously listened to us kids play that record and shouted, "I'm calling the psych ward. My kids have gone crazy!"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_XIV

I wonder if deterrence, if actually applied, would have stopped Adolf. It did stop the USSR, more or less.

I suspect that the Chinese have a shadow government all set for insertion where appropriate and needed should any country from Iran to Japan do something stupid. The one most likely to be put into place is for North Korea. The second-most likely is for South Korea in the event that the North has invaded the South, and the People's Liberation Army is obliged to liberate more than the northern part of the Korean Peninsula.

China has been warming up to South Korea. Think about it: it is far safer to be a pro-Beijing Communist in South Korea than in North Korea.

More pressure on China to control their client seems like a good idea. Short of a Revolution (which may be brewing) there's not a lot anyone can do. Just keep the lid on it.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

The much-derided "Star Wars" (Strategic Defense Initiative, an anti-missile defense) that suggested that Ronald Reagan was crazy begins to look better.
I continue to prefer a strong military to deter most attacks( won't work with irrational people). If Russia or China has something like that, then that may be the best thing possible. Much of the approach will be over Russian air space.



I suspect that the Chinese have a shadow government all set for insertion where appropriate and needed should any country from Iran to Japan do something stupid. The one most likely to be put into place is for North Korea. The second-most likely is for South Korea in the event that the North has invaded the South, and the People's Liberation Army is obliged to liberate more than the northern part of the Korean Peninsula.

China has been warming up to South Korea. Think about it: it is far safer to be a pro-Beijing Communist in South Korea than in North Korea.

On that note, Obama has really fostered Missile Defense programs. Some programs are really maturing now. A couple of things that have been surprisingly good have been Aegis and THAAD. And then there is all the secret stuff we'll find out about 5 years from now. In this latter category I'm guessing that the Secret Air Force Space Program has a major role. I think space based systems are inevitable. This is one of those things where no matter what treaties we have, since the Russians already violated them and the Chinese never signed them, we are going into space and that is that.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

I don't think so; it still remains true that a defense shield only encourages offensive innovation to beat it.

There is also the argument that a strong defensive shield at least puts an element of doubt in the mind of the potential attacker. The strongest deterrence against a country with many weapons continues to be an offensive counterstrike.
For now, the primary utility of defensive shield is against a foe with only a small number of weapons or against a rogue commander who controls a small number of weapons.

I wonder if deterrence, if actually applied, would have stopped Adolf. It did stop the USSR, more or less.

It is possible that Hitler could have been deterred if the UK and the USA had sufficient weapons and the will to use them. The USA was playing catchup with both Germany and Japan and was in no position to provide any deterrence.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

The much-derided "Star Wars" (Strategic Defense Initiative, an anti-missile defense) that suggested that Ronald Reagan was crazy begins to look better.
I continue to prefer a strong military to deter most attacks( won't work with irrational people). If Russia or China has something like that, then that may be the best thing possible. Much of the approach will be over Russian air space.



I suspect that the Chinese have a shadow government all set for insertion where appropriate and needed should any country from Iran to Japan do something stupid. The one most likely to be put into place is for North Korea. The second-most likely is for South Korea in the event that the North has invaded the South, and the People's Liberation Army is obliged to liberate more than the northern part of the Korean Peninsula.

China has been warming up to South Korea. Think about it: it is far safer to be a pro-Beijing Communist in South Korea than in North Korea.

It would be easy for the Chinese to support a South Korean takeover of the North if South Korea would then kick out the US presence and be neutral. The problem is that South Korea is so much more advanced than North Korea that South Korea no longer wants the North Koreans. Particularly after seeing how difficult it was for West Germany to digest East Germany post-reunification.