Ideas to extend the community beyond the 4T Community.

Reposted from a response in the "What's happening with you" thread

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I've thought about that too. Actually I've experimented with two spin-off forums myself in the past.-Aimoo, Invisionfree. The problem is that this address possesses the "feeder" channel that brings in new people. Any forum that we produce would only consist of a smaller group that eventually would evaporate, delaying the inevitable and cause the community to die a slow death. Meanwhile new (real) people would be coming in to a derelict site swarming with bots and suspicious people using the site for their own mysterious means.

What needs to happen is that Neil Howe be contacted to either hand over at least moderator control to the eldership of the community, or shut the place down. As much as I hate to say, I get the feeling that the Facebook group is where he moved on to. That's a shame because this is one of the few forums still going strong, and its always better to be self sufficent rather than be dependent on another company like Facebook.
That's why I posted a thread asking about ideas on keeping the community in contact if something should happen to the forum.(Which was properly ignored)

The guy running the Braveheart's kilt forum decided to call it quits. However, he did not shut down the site...with no moderation, the forum became choked with spam.

As I recall, there was a thread or two started for flame wars. The idea was that people would move their conflicts to those threads, leaving the other threads for fruitful discussion. Didn't work, of course. A failed experiment. After a period of years, you discover what works, and what doesn't.

Originally Posted by Bronco80

Yeah, there would still need to be some level of interaction with this board to bring in new members. At a minimum you'd need to have a thread with a link to the new location and make sure that every now and then it gets refreshed.

I've toyed with the idea of build some type of "shadow forum" where threads and posts could be archived, with members here could continue there conversations in a more controlled environment. It wouldn't automatically try to replace the 4T, but serve as an alternative sight and a touchstone in case something does happen here. I'm thinking something along with freewebs which can provide a free website that comes with its own forum set up. We could link it up with a thread(s) here pointing to the new location (with the notice that there will be moderation), as well as links with the Facebook group(s) and any other another participating 4T aligned sight.

Moderation is problematic. The atmosphere can become stultifying. Or a forum can turn into an echo chamber.

On the other hand, there was an attempt to set up a friendly T4T thread. Unfortunately, a more argumenative type did not respect this, and poisoned the thread.

Originally Posted by TimWalker

Moderation is problematic. The atmosphere can become stultifying. Or a forum can turn into an echo chamber.

No, were talking about mainly the big glaring problems like spam accounts, obscenity (although not necessarily curse words if in context), and blatant abuse of the forums and its members.

Tonight I opened a prototype website to explore building a shadow site of the 4T. Considering that we have now long time and respected members so frustrated that they are planning to leave motivated me to do so. The strength and continued growth of this community is rare in the internet, especially in forum form. Its one thing for a community to naturally die, but this is a strong community being blasted into oblivion.

Some of the features I'm thinking about include an "eldership" ring of moderators , maybe secluded areas for established and trusted members, etc. Considering that its also a website, I'll be able to add some features that might make the community a little more dynamic.

Stirred up, yes. But a number of problems have been festering for some time now. The troll is the straw that broke the camel's back.

Originally Posted by The Rani

This is way too much dramatics over one so-called troll. If his intent was to stir things up, he surely succeeded, probably beyond his wildest expectations.
No offense to anyone intended, but the reality is that those who chose to leave will not be missed by the forum. I haven't been missed during my absences, and you haven't been missed either. Things go on in the world, with or without us. Only our human egos make us think otherwise.
That said, good luck if you decide to start the new forum!

I'm not talking about a separation, merely a shadow site. Bronco80 publicly stated what I've been mulling over for quite some time, I've just had the experience to build them. Of course maintaining and growing a forum is the harder part. I'm not going to overboard with this project right out of the gate. I want to get a feel if its worth my time. Like you've noted, sometimes I can't help feel "shunned" and my posts purposefully buried as soon as they are published. However, that may be more egotism and paranoia on my part.

I'm not interested in creating another side forum like we did around 2005 & 2007. This would be different in that it seek to preserve a vibrant community. Like I said I'm not going overboard, but it wouldn't hurt starting to work on a "lifeboat" now.

The person in question isn't the reason for doing this. Actually I have a suspicion as to what's going on there. Instead the concern we've been having is the sheer amount and activity of the false profiles being loaded into the forum. I think that at least some of these are more than just advertisers. Some of these profiles have cryptic messages, both in English and in foreign languages. Whatever is happening doesn't seem to be good for the community, and it may end up crashing this site or getting it shut down.

This site has been abandoned, and is being over-run with spam. Fortunately these bots have kept a low profile for now. But it does prove that we're in a "wild frontier". But ask Mark what its like to be a member of once power forum only to be abandoned and flooded with spam. I,Mark, Ana, and others like Sam and Drew were refuges from that site.

Like I said, I not going to go over board with this project. I've got a busy schedule with college, work, volunteering, and writing a novel. And maybe Bronco has something much better in mind. But it probably wouldn't hurt working on something just in case it all goes south.

Hi Rani, just letting you know I sent a PM to you in Reply

Originally Posted by The Rani

Oh! To be honest, I hadn't even noticed those. I mean, I see that they are there, but if you hit the "new posts" button it's easy to stay updated without muddling through all that gunk.

I sort of see it like people who complain about facebook. It's a free service, and you have to take what you can get. Although, I essentially took down my facebook profile recently because of the huge amounts of "spam" that appears there as well. Plus, they try to manipulate people:

http://www.networkworld.com/article/...-as-usual.html

I'm trying to get back to just talking with people in person.

Originally Posted by The Rani

Plus, they try to manipulate people:

Freakin' 'sick-minded', but not suprising, unfortunately.

Originally Posted by Rani

I'm trying to get back to just talking with people in person.

Totally.


Prince

PS:



Feedback, baby!

In June 2001 the paleo 4T site was suddenly choked with spam. So the present forum was launched. Another metaphor-moderation as an immune system.

Originally Posted by princeofcats67

Feedback, baby!

Yeah that's definitely part of it, but I also think there's something more personal about sending someone a text or email directly than writing a "post" out in the ether and narcissistically waiting to see how many "likes" you get. I've fallen into that trap myself, and it's not healthy. The same can be said of an online forum. I mean, if your self-esteem depends on whether some random internet person calls you a "Jewwy fag" or a "genius," well, the phrase "get a life" comes to mind.

There's also the fact that, in my experience, most people's facebook lives have nothing to do with their actual lives. On fb they are taking fantastic vacations, celebrating graduations and anniversaries, bragging about their kids. When you meet up with them in person, they bitch about their husbands, get drunk at 2 in the afternoon, and their kids won't give them the time of day. Some people enjoy the illusions, but I've always preferred the truth.

Actually, here's what I'd love to get:

Michael: He’s got this privacy software. Keeps people from stealing your stuff–tell her, pal.

Maeby: So it’s privacy software that’s also antipiracy?

GM: (Rambles on explaining in the background)…they want to steal your music and copy your movies or just look at your photos…this prevents that. It just neutralizes that so it’s not even a threat. It’s called Fakeblock.

Michael: Great name.

GM: Oh well, you know, it’s just super low-hanging fruit. Someone’s going to do it. We’re just trying to be those guys, you know.

Michael: I don’t understand a word of it, but it works. You should see his Facebook page: doesn’t have a friend on it.

Narrator: Of course, that last part had nothing to do with Fakeblock…

http://www.abine.com/blog/2013/fakeblock/

Anyway, good luck to Ghost Echo or whatever your name is now if you get put in charge of this crazy forum. Since so many others have tried (and failed) before you, I have a feeling that you're gonna need it!

Originally Posted by The Rani

Yeah that's definitely part of it, but I also think there's something more personal about sending someone a text or email directly than writing a "post" out in the ether and narcissistically waiting to see how many "likes" you get. I've fallen into that trap myself, and it's not healthy. The same can be said of an online forum. I mean, if your self-esteem depends on whether some random internet person calls you a "Jewwy fag" or a "genius," well, the phrase "get a life" comes to mind.

Well, I'm pretty sure you're not asking for it, but I just gotta tell
you, your posts(like all of 'em) are freakin' crackin' me up!
(your observations are freakin' spot-on, IMO.)

Originally Posted by Rani

There's also the fact that, in my experience, most people's facebook lives have nothing to do with their actual lives. On fb they are taking fantastic vacations, celebrating graduations and anniversaries, bragging about their kids. When you meet up with them in person, they bitch about their husbands, get drunk at 2 in the afternoon, and their kids won't give them the time of day. Some people enjoy the illusions, but I've always preferred the truth.

I've never done any of that crap, and never will.
It's just not who I am.

Originally Posted by Rani

Actually, here's what I'd love to get:

http://www.abine.com/blog/2013/fakeblock/

Oh, does that looks really, really funny.
The thing is: I don't have The Netflix-thingy.
I really wish they'd put that show on Verizon
On-Demand; I'd be all over it. *sigh*


Prince

Originally Posted by The Rani

Anyway, good luck to Ghost Echo or whatever your name is now if you get put in charge of this crazy forum. Since so many others have tried (and failed) before you, I have a feeling that you're gonna need it!

Well I haven't been handed any keys of the kingdom just yet. I'd say if LC associates does go with the moderator option, they'll need a few nice, quiet, boring people at the helm. I have some experience and might accept such a position. But there are a lot more worthy people here who fit that description. Pat, Chas, Tim, maybe even Virgil if we can lure him out, come to mind.

But have no fear, my queen. The community has always needed its trickster. That is why you have never left. It is where your throne sits, ministering where you are needed. Behold the terrible and mighty sorceress, plying her arts from the shadows of the encampment, watching, setting complacency on alert. Maybe you were born that way (minus all the dancing). But I am just a wild prophet, a fool on the hill, watching the trickster at play.



A strange riddle perplexes me concerning the named of the beast, http://www.amazon.com/Apollyon-Risin.../dp/0982323565 . One who knows the name would not invoke it. Those who would invoke it would not know the name. Or is there a bigger game at play?

End of mysterious posting- we now return you to your normally scheduled 4T insanity...

Originally Posted by The Rani

Well, good. I've been laughing a lot the last few days reading this forum and I'm glad to pay it forward. <snipped regular-smiley>

I didn't mean for my observations about fb and internet forums to be comical, but at the same time I can't take any of this shit too seriously.

I didn't take the fb-comments as humor. Mine weren't either.
It's so 'screwed-up' that it just becomes absurd/ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Rani

Even "God" hurling insults my way ... who cares.

Case, in point!

Originally Posted by Rani

One of my nephews is in the process of joining the military, and his mom is freaking out at the news today. I told her that he's a brave kid, and that I'm proud of him and she should be too. That's the kind of stuff that matters in life, in my opinion.

Definitely! And, if you get a chance, send along my thanks for his service.

Originally Posted by Rani

Arrrested Development ... yeah ... you gotta find a way ...

Aggh! Quit naggin'-me, Woman!
(Ok. I just checked and The Netflix-thingy
has a free one month trial-offer underway.)
You=Sneak!


Prince

PS:

Originally Posted by The Rani

Well that nails it for me. The guy was putting us on, and doing a nice job of it too. No wonder he didn't care when I laughed at him, compared his posts to an elephant's ass, or suggested that I might be Jewish.
Perhaps his next avatar on this forum will be "Loki." <snipped ultra-smiley>

FWIW, I highly doubt that was his reference.
Fortunately(or unfortunately), I'm fluent in
multiple dialects of crazy!
(I decided to leave him to the pros. )

Originally Posted by The Rani

...One of my nephews is in the process of joining the military...

-Naturally, I'm curious. Service, MOS, etc?

Originally Posted by The Rani

... and his mom is freaking out at the news today...

-Par!

Originally Posted by The Rani

Agreed, and that's not exactly what I meant.
I hadn't thought about the meaning of the name before, or considered that it could be part of the joke.
Maybe it's weird (or naïve) but I don't pay much attention to avatars. That's why I used to change mine all the time, til I got stuck with this one the same way that Ghost Echo got stuck with his.

Huh. So, you don't like "The Rani"?
(FWIW, I think it's really cool.)

So what name would you go with?
(how 'bout: The Bitch? ! LOL!)


Prince

PS:

Originally Posted by Rani

Don't I know it!

Good call.

I know!

Originally Posted by princeofcats67

Huh. So, you don't like "The Rani"?

I don't care much about it one way or the other.
Though it's interesting to see the reactions that it provokes in some (simple-minded, IMO) people.

So what name would you go with?
(how 'bout: The Bitch? ! LOL!)

Nah, that's way too boring. I'd go with "nihilist moron." In grammatically incorrect lowercase letters, of course, as part of the tribute to a certain special someone.

Originally Posted by The Rani

Nah, that's way too boring. I'd go with "nihilist moron." In grammatically incorrect lowercase letters, of course, as part of the tribute to a certain special someone.

I guess I see your point. And "nihilist moron" does actually
fit you(considering you're both a "nihilist" and a "moron". )


Prince


PS: Aggh! The lower-case letters!
Make it stop! Make it stop!
(I'm actually stuck with that one. )

Originally Posted by nihilist moron

Well, here I am!
This is kind of awesome. I see "thank you for logging in, nihilist moron" from V-bulletin, and if anyone calls me by my screen name I can report them to the moderator.

OMG! I love it!
(Miss Awesome!, you are seriously the 'coolest person ever'! )

Originally Posted by CPE!

And as such, I've already voted "vegans are pussies" in the poll.

!


Prince

PS:

Originally Posted by CPE!

That's not the only issue, in case you hadn't noticed. I considered and rejected "nihilistic moron."

Ya know, I was actually thinking about that. Do you go with:
"nihilistic moron", or "moronic nihilist", or just "moron nihilist"?
So many choices!

2nd ETA: Two nouns?

ETA: Look down at "welcome to our newest member"! <LOL!>
(I'm going to totally have to send you a "friend request"!)

And, under your profile you can fill-in the
About Me-section with: A nihilist, and a moron!

3rd ETA: I was going to add something I thought was funny here,
but after seeing your post right after this, I'm still totally in awe ....

Originally Posted by nihilist moron

Testing new sig line ...

O. M. G.

...........


Prince

PS: I wasn't sure that it was even possible, but you actually just got cool-er.
(I am seriously in awe ....)