what will society and values be like in the millenial high?

Well, I'll speak in terms of culture.

For one thing, do not take "blandness" as being necessarily a bad thing.

It would be funny if people in the 2030's think of the Rolling Stones as being quaint and nothing more.

In reality the culture of highs tend to be rather interesting, just not very groundbreaking. It is not something I would despair over though.

I would guess the high will see very "PC" speech with respect to minorities (and maybe gays?), but anything anti-govt or especially pro-Islamism will be "reported", especially if there's another attack on the US. Questions will even be asked in the universities.

I also suspect that anyone who looks funny at a child will be pilloried, including a few innocents. Kids will be protected, more Megan's laws will be enacted and possibly life penalties or mandatory sterilization for sexual offenders.

More people will have things approximating "bomb shelters": emergency plans, storage of water/food/supplies, lessons for the kids at home and in school.

There may be a crackdown on hard drugs, but maybe not on marijuana.

There will be more marriage and less divorce. Extended families will be closer.

Society will not shun pornography or adult-themed material like in the last high, but it will go to great pains to protect it from children. Wal-Mart is already hiding the Cosmo covers, and V-chips are in the TVs.

Previous "restrictions" on having Arab or Muslim villains will go away. Some popular movies will have terrorist Arab/Muslim villains, unlike the recent spate of non-descript Euro or South African villains such as in Die Hard or Lethal Weapon.

The Hindu and Sikh communities will go out of their way to educate Americans about the fact that they are NOT Muslims. The Jewish community is already coming into vogue, with non-Jews having "bar-mitzvah" parties at age 13, and the recent line of Jewish-related t-shirts for girls ("Goy Toy"). Less African-Americans will move towards Islam, and more will move toward Christianity, maybe even voting with the religious right. More Americans will learn Spanish in school, less will learn French.

Originally Posted by Straha

what will society and values be like in the millenial high?

Closer to "Road Warrior" than what we know today.

Originally Posted by Seadog '66

Originally Posted by Straha

what will society and values be like in the millenial high?

Closer to "Road Warrior" than what we know today.

What was that movie where Sly Stallone goes into the future to catch Wesley Snipes and teams up with Sandra Bullock? I'd say that was a pretty amusing view of a possible first turning. I was tickled by everyone singing pre-Crisis commercial jingles and show tunes.

If the next major scientific revolution (one that "overthrows" special relativity) doesn't happen during the Crisis, it will happen during the High.

The next High will see fundamentalism defeated, whether it is Islamic or Christian. This, and the next scientific revolution, will cause a new intellectual Enlightenment.

Humanism will become the dominant ideology worldwide.

The Islamic world will become secularized, and will participate in the Enlightenment. Muslims will NOT become the 1790s Jacobins or 1950s Communists.

Neither will organized religion disappear. Religion will, however, will become more humanistic as fundamentalism is attacked.

The "third world" will disappear. During their own 4Ts, they will opt for modernization. Most of the nations will reach a standard of living that westerners experience today by 2040.

Colonialism will be a thing of the past. The United States will get through the Crisis mostly intact, except that its imperialism will be crushed by "third world" revolution both during and after the Crisis. But even so, America by the mid 2020s could very well enjoy a standard of living and quality of live much better than today.

With this, America's economy will largely be domestic. Alternative energy sources, such as solar, hydrogen, ZPE, or fusion will rise, and by 2040, fossil fuels will mostly be a thing of the past. All of these sources will produce much more energy than humans will need.

Mexico will be seemingly integrated into the US, at least economically. This could even begin a movement for Mexico to be annexed to the US, if it doesn't happen during the Crisis. It will be harder to annex the Central American nations, however. At the most extreme, this could even begin a continent wide movement to coalesce into one nation.

With the new baby boom, the global population will suddenly begin to surge. During the Crisis era, many people will have migrated into the Heartland and into the Rockies. In other words, away from coastal areas. With lebensraum much more limited on both coasts, the Midwest will see a boom in population and activity, as will the Rockies, as will much of Canada during the next High. Tourism will boom worldwide, and in space.

Even the production of food will be changed. With a new trust in institutions, many will push for genetically modified foods. As aquaculture expands, seafood will overtake grazing animals as the main source of meat. As such, Americans will have solved the problem of obesity, and see a marked improvement in health. The population of large fish will be restored. Hydroponics will also be utilized to the max. Many urban areas will contain vast hydroponics farms. These will also be very popular in the desert areas, in the Rockies, and in northern areas. These would make Canada able to support a population much larger than it can today. With nuclear fusion and OTECs, the water shortage problem will be solved. There will be enough energy to pump water everywhere on the planet.

Scientists will perfect recycling. We will be able to recycle both organic and inorganic products. Mining will become a more minor industry. However, by the second half of the High, mining in space will begin. Scientists will finally conclude exploration of this planet. Every single nook and cranny will be chartered. Much more scientists will live in the arctic. The oceans will also see very extensive exploration. With sea farming, extensive colonies will be built on the oceans.

New migration patterns will be greatly aided with new modes of transportation. By the 2020s, flying cars will be a hot item. New public transporation will be built. The airline industry will continue to decline as flying cars become popular. However, the hypersonic flight industry will skyrocket. People will be able to jet from New York to Tokyo in less than an hour.

By today's standards, the 2020s will have limitless bandwidth, limitless computing power, and limitless storage space. With this, grid computing will be very popular. Movies, television, music, games, text, will also use the Internet as their main platform. Everything will now be "on demand."

The war against disease will experience substantial gains. We will seem on the verge of curing most diseases, including cancer and AIDS. The average life expectancy will reach well into the 90s.

Colonies will be built in orbit, on the moon, on asteroids, and on Mars by 2040. Space travel will be much easier and much cheaper. Compared to today, space ships to other worlds will seem like a cruise, largely because these ships will be built in orbit. Several space elevators might be in operation by 2040.

The iron and steel age of industrialization will decline, and be replaced by the age of carbon. Carbon will become the new major industrial material, from which future civilization will be built. By 2040, science and technology would seem like magic by today's standards. There will be a consensus that we have transited to a Type I Civilization.

By the 2020s, America will finally move past racism. The new concept of nationality will be all-inclusive. By the 2030s, the main moral issues facing society will be related to transhumanism.

Originally Posted by AAA1969

There may be a crackdown on hard drugs, but maybe not on marijuana.

replace maybe with definately. Marijuana is most likely goign to become more acceptasble during the 4t/High(this is going on now but its doing so in a slower and more stealthy way). Just like how when the GI genration started coming of age, prohibition ended so expect something like that to happen but hard drugs are pro bsbly NEVER becoming tolerated

A few of my predictions:

Politicians will fail to deal with an emerging crisis, instead focusing on petty partisan agendas and staying in power. People will continue to lose faith in their leaders.

The economy will suffer, as outsourcing, loss of industries, etc. takes its toll on the US.

Africa and the Middle East will continue to be ravaged by disease, war, fundamentalism and terrorism.

India will likely develop more and become a major world power.

China will likely become a Fascist state, as the government continues to become more capitalist but represses efforts to liberalize society.

The US may very well become a de-facto Corporate Dictatorship and/or Corporate One-party state, as more privacy is lost, companies continue to gain influence, and the corporate-state will gradually eliminate all dissent in the media. Most Millennials probably won?t care as long as their lives aren?t directly affected.

The Gay Rights movement may turn ugly, as Gay Marriage continues to create a homophobic reaction.

South America may stabilize somewhat, though some areas such as Colombia or Venezuela will likely continue to be unstable.

Environmental problems such as desertification, over-fishing, etc. will continue to worsen.

Hybrid cars will gradually become popular.

Terrorism will continue to be a major problem.

The European Union will gradually become an actual nation, with each nation basically becoming a satellite-state to one major nation or group that will grab power within that organization.

Relations between the US and Canada, Europe, etc. will continue to sour.

Europe, Japan, etc. will all have serious aging problems.

Originally Posted by POTUS Diffin

A few of my predictions:

Politicians will fail to deal with an emerging crisis, instead focusing on petty partisan agendas and staying in power. People will continue to lose faith in their leaders.

The economy will suffer, as outsourcing, loss of industries, etc. takes its toll on the US.

Africa and the Middle East will continue to be ravaged by disease, war, fundamentalism and terrorism.

India will likely develop more and become a major world power.

China will likely become a Fascist state, as the government continues to become more capitalist but represses efforts to liberalize society.

The US may very well become a de-facto Corporate Dictatorship and/or Corporate One-party state, as more privacy is lost, companies continue to gain influence, and the corporate-state will gradually eliminate all dissent in the media. Most Millennials probably won?t care as long as their lives aren?t directly affected.

The Gay Rights movement may turn ugly, as Gay Marriage continues to create a homophobic reaction.

South America may stabilize somewhat, though some areas such as Colombia or Venezuela will likely continue to be unstable.

Environmental problems such as desertification, over-fishing, etc. will continue to worsen.

Hybrid cars will gradually become popular.

Terrorism will continue to be a major problem.

The European Union will gradually become an actual nation, with each nation basically becoming a satellite-state to one major nation or group that will grab power within that organization.

Relations between the US and Canada, Europe, etc. will continue to sour.

Europe, Japan, etc. will all have serious aging problems.

Are these your predictions for the next high or for the upcoming crisis?????

Originally Posted by madscientist

If the next major scientific revolution (one that "overthrows" special relativity) doesn't happen during the Crisis, it will happen during the High.

The next High will see fundamentalism defeated, whether it is Islamic or Christian. This, and the next scientific revolution, will cause a new intellectual Enlightenment.

Humanism will become the dominant ideology worldwide.

The Islamic world will become secularized, and will participate in the Enlightenment. Muslims will NOT become the 1790s Jacobins or 1950s Communists.

Neither will organized religion disappear. Religion will, however, will become more humanistic as fundamentalism is attacked.

The "third world" will disappear. During their own 4Ts, they will opt for modernization. Most of the nations will reach a standard of living that westerners experience today by 2040.

Colonialism will be a thing of the past. The United States will get through the Crisis mostly intact, except that its imperialism will be crushed by "third world" revolution both during and after the Crisis. But even so, America by the mid 2020s could very well enjoy a standard of living and quality of live much better than today.

With this, America's economy will largely be domestic. Alternative energy sources, such as solar, hydrogen, ZPE, or fusion will rise, and by 2040, fossil fuels will mostly be a thing of the past. All of these sources will produce much more energy than humans will need.

Mexico will be seemingly integrated into the US, at least economically. This could even begin a movement for Mexico to be annexed to the US, if it doesn't happen during the Crisis. It will be harder to annex the Central American nations, however. At the most extreme, this could even begin a continent wide movement to coalesce into one nation.

With the new baby boom, the global population will suddenly begin to surge. During the Crisis era, many people will have migrated into the Heartland and into the Rockies. In other words, away from coastal areas. With lebensraum much more limited on both coasts, the Midwest will see a boom in population and activity, as will the Rockies, as will much of Canada during the next High. Tourism will boom worldwide, and in space.

Even the production of food will be changed. With a new trust in institutions, many will push for genetically modified foods. As aquaculture expands, seafood will overtake grazing animals as the main source of meat. As such, Americans will have solved the problem of obesity, and see a marked improvement in health. The population of large fish will be restored. Hydroponics will also be utilized to the max. Many urban areas will contain vast hydroponics farms. These will also be very popular in the desert areas, in the Rockies, and in northern areas. These would make Canada able to support a population much larger than it can today. With nuclear fusion and OTECs, the water shortage problem will be solved. There will be enough energy to pump water everywhere on the planet.

Scientists will perfect recycling. We will be able to recycle both organic and inorganic products. Mining will become a more minor industry. However, by the second half of the High, mining in space will begin. Scientists will finally conclude exploration of this planet. Every single nook and cranny will be chartered. Much more scientists will live in the arctic. The oceans will also see very extensive exploration. With sea farming, extensive colonies will be built on the oceans.

New migration patterns will be greatly aided with new modes of transportation. By the 2020s, flying cars will be a hot item. New public transporation will be built. The airline industry will continue to decline as flying cars become popular. However, the hypersonic flight industry will skyrocket. People will be able to jet from New York to Tokyo in less than an hour.

By today's standards, the 2020s will have limitless bandwidth, limitless computing power, and limitless storage space. With this, grid computing will be very popular. Movies, television, music, games, text, will also use the Internet as their main platform. Everything will now be "on demand."

The war against disease will experience substantial gains. We will seem on the verge of curing most diseases, including cancer and AIDS. The average life expectancy will reach well into the 90s.

Colonies will be built in orbit, on the moon, on asteroids, and on Mars by 2040. Space travel will be much easier and much cheaper. Compared to today, space ships to other worlds will seem like a cruise, largely because these ships will be built in orbit. Several space elevators might be in operation by 2040.

The iron and steel age of industrialization will decline, and be replaced by the age of carbon. Carbon will become the new major industrial material, from which future civilization will be built. By 2040, science and technology would seem like magic by today's standards. There will be a consensus that we have transited to a Type I Civilization.

By the 2020s, America will finally move past racism. The new concept of nationality will be all-inclusive. By the 2030s, the main moral issues facing society will be related to transhumanism.

You ARE mad! Not a bad recipe for the next high after that, though!!!!

You extrapolated technology WAY WAY WAY too much, except for maybe the recycling, TDP looks to be up and running everywhere in 50 years.

Originally Posted by The Wonk

Are these your predictions for the next high or for the upcoming crisis?????

My thoughts exactly!!!

If you want a "Cold War" type standoff in the high, it will be between the US and China (over Taiwan), with the EU on the sidelines. Heck, looks like we're shaping up for another Space Race as well!

Originally Posted by Sean Love

What was that movie where Sly Stallone goes into the future to catch Wesley Snipes and teams up with Sandra Bullock? I'd say that was a pretty amusing view of a possible first turning. I was tickled by everyone singing pre-Crisis commercial jingles and show tunes.

'Demolition Man'.

"Welcome to San Angeles. Be well."

Originally Posted by madscientist

The United States will get through the Crisis mostly intact, except that its imperialism will be crushed by "third world" revolution both during and after the Crisis.
(snip)
Mexico will be seemingly integrated into the US, at least economically. This could even begin a movement for Mexico to be annexed to the US, if it doesn't happen during the Crisis.

The only way I can really envision both of the above items coming true would be for the United States to have been swallowed whole by Mexico towards the end of this 4T, perhaps as part of the 'third world revolution'. Which is, demographically speaking, entirely possible, I'll admit.

Originally Posted by Titus Sabinus Parthicus

Originally Posted by madscientist

The United States will get through the Crisis mostly intact, except that its imperialism will be crushed by "third world" revolution both during and after the Crisis.
(snip)
Mexico will be seemingly integrated into the US, at least economically. This could even begin a movement for Mexico to be annexed to the US, if it doesn't happen during the Crisis.

The only way I can really envision both of the above items coming true would be for the United States to have been swallowed whole by Mexico towards the end of this 4T, perhaps as part of the 'third world revolution'. Which is, demographically speaking, entirely possible, I'll admit.

Would that mean MECHA's wet dream of a latter day Atzlan?

It'd be very hard to have the entire lower 48 come under Mexico's wings, at least in my position. The trend for nations lately these days is fragmentation, and I am not sure if this sort of integration of countries is very likely.

But here the case can happen since the Hispanic population today are the most resistant to assimilate into the States, so their loyalty to the nation might not be as strong as those who are more entrenched in the society. They could be manipulated to take the "motherland" back from the whites because of ethnic empathy . . .

And, not to be racist or anything, I feel that if the States fell to Mexico, the nation and its people would spoil (the bad kind) this nation into a mestizo carnival.

Originally Posted by madscientist

If the next major scientific revolution (one that "overthrows" special relativity) doesn't happen during the Crisis, it will happen during the High.

This is like saying Relativity "overthrew" Newtonian mechanics, which "overthrew" Euclidean geometry. New scientific theories build on their predecessors, which become subsets of the new theory. They don't replace them.

The next High will see fundamentalism defeated, whether it is Islamic or Christian. This, and the next scientific revolution, will cause a new intellectual Enlightenment.

And from where exactly will the secularists muster the moral authority to quash millennia-old religious beliefs? The thing about religion is that it is in no way impacted by reason. The dictionary definition of faith, as it applies in a religious context, is firm belief in something for which there is no proof. Fundamentalism is a reaction to deteriorating social conditions. Arabs feel they've been handed the smelly end of history and find solace in the only certainty they know: the purifying wrath of Allah. Christians too turn to God as a bulwark against the moral turpitude of their dying civilization.

Humanism will become the dominant ideology worldwide.

It already is. Which is why so many people are returning to religion in despair at what secular humanists have done to the world.

The Islamic world will become secularized, and will participate in the Enlightenment. Muslims will NOT become the 1790s Jacobins or 1950s Communists.

Oh ... wow. This is of course about as likely as all Japanese suddenly voting Libertarian. Moslems will be marginalized, and in response will become increasingly apocalyptic in outlook. Eventually, Islam will either reform itself after a protracted series of sectarian wars, or it will be quarantined and euthanized by the rest of the planet in much the same way as a rabid dog.

Neither will organized religion disappear. Religion will, however, will become more humanistic as fundamentalism is attacked.

Religion will become more mystical and irrational as people flounder about in search of elusive meaning and purpose.

The "third world" will disappear. During their own 4Ts, they will opt for modernization. Most of the nations will reach a standard of living that westerners experience today by 2040.

The Third World will migrate en masse to the First World in order to claim some of its dwindling prosperity, depressing living standards across the board. The egalitarian aspirations of democracy will finally be achieved as everyone becomes equally abject and immiserated.

Colonialism will be a thing of the past. The United States will get through the Crisis mostly intact, except that its imperialism will be crushed by "third world" revolution both during and after the Crisis. But even so, America by the mid 2020s could very well enjoy a standard of living and quality of live much better than today.

The United States will bankrupt itself through overextension and the Third World will be left "unmolested", at which point it will promptly collapse into anarchy and warlordism.

With this, America's economy will largely be domestic. Alternative energy sources, such as solar, hydrogen, ZPE, or fusion will rise, and by 2040, fossil fuels will mostly be a thing of the past. All of these sources will produce much more energy than humans will need.

You've got one thing right: fossil fuels will be gone by mid-century. If anything economical replaces them, it will still lead to global warming, however. This is simple thermodynamics: as humans consume more energy, more of it will be lost as waste heat. This waste heat radiates into the atmosphere and temperatures rise. In the long-term, Earth -- so beloved by the eco-bunnies -- is a death trap that will get humanity extinct, no matter what it does to or for the environment.

Mexico will be seemingly integrated into the US, at least economically. This could even begin a movement for Mexico to be annexed to the US, if it doesn't happen during the Crisis. It will be harder to annex the Central American nations, however. At the most extreme, this could even begin a continent wide movement to coalesce into one nation.

Actually, many Mexicans are already agitating for annexation ... of the American Southwest. They call that part of the country "Aztlan" and would like nothing more than to "reclaim" it from the dirty anglo invaders who stole the territory back in the 19th century, when Mexicans weren't using it for anything productive and the land was largely devoid of inhabitants.

With the new baby boom, the global population will suddenly begin to surge. During the Crisis era, many people will have migrated into the Heartland and into the Rockies. In other words, away from coastal areas. With lebensraum much more limited on both coasts, the Midwest will see a boom in population and activity, as will the Rockies, as will much of Canada during the next High. Tourism will boom worldwide, and in space.

And how will they do this? By squatting on farmland? This entire continent is owned already, and what parts of the Midwest aren't being used for food production are purposely kept fallow by land speculators in order to drive up real-estate prices in those overcrowded coastal areas.

Even the production of food will be changed. With a new trust in institutions, many will push for genetically modified foods. As aquaculture expands, seafood will overtake grazing animals as the main source of meat. As such, Americans will have solved the problem of obesity, and see a marked improvement in health. The population of large fish will be restored. Hydroponics will also be utilized to the max. Many urban areas will contain vast hydroponics farms. These will also be very popular in the desert areas, in the Rockies, and in northern areas. These would make Canada able to support a population much larger than it can today. With nuclear fusion and OTECs, the water shortage problem will be solved. There will be enough energy to pump water everywhere on the planet.

See my comments above about heat pollution from all this cheap energy. Also, while food production may indeed change as you say, it will not lead to slimmer, healthier Americans. Obesity in this country is a consequence of bad eating habits and a sedentary lifestyle. Sumo wrestlers get fat on nothing but rice and steamed vegetables; Americans will continue to be fat whether they're snarfing BBQ McRibs or gorging themselves on soy protein.

Scientists will perfect recycling. We will be able to recycle both organic and inorganic products. Mining will become a more minor industry. However, by the second half of the High, mining in space will begin. Scientists will finally conclude exploration of this planet. Every single nook and cranny will be chartered. Much more scientists will live in the arctic. The oceans will also see very extensive exploration. With sea farming, extensive colonies will be built on the oceans.

They will do this with an obsolescent and horribly expensive shuttle fleet that is slowly attriting into nonexistence, and with NASA probes that more often than not suffer instrument failure before ever arriving at their destinations. They will do this despite a political fixation on comfort and security that leads to wasteful social and defense spending at the expense of scientific research and civil engineering projects.

New migration patterns will be greatly aided with new modes of transportation. By the 2020s, flying cars will be a hot item. New public transporation will be built. The airline industry will continue to decline as flying cars become popular. However, the hypersonic flight industry will skyrocket. People will be able to jet from New York to Tokyo in less than an hour.

Jane! Get me off this crazy thing! You will notice that the Concorde jet, the world's only supersonic passenger aircraft, was decomissioned because it was deemed too expensive to operate (and had suffered some spectacular design failures over its operational lifetime). Airlines will continue to decline because people are afraid to fly, and those who must fly resent being manhandled by surly airport personnel. The introduction of ballistic suborbital flights -- if it even happens -- will not change this.

By today's standards, the 2020s will have limitless bandwidth, limitless computing power, and limitless storage space. With this, grid computing will be very popular. Movies, television, music, games, text, will also use the Internet as their main platform. Everything will now be "on demand."

This is actually a pretty reasonable prediction, but one caveat: the proliferation of digital recording technologies and storage media will lead to draconian intellectual property laws enforced with the same arbitrariness and casual disregard for civil liberties as today's drug laws.

The war against disease will experience substantial gains. We will seem on the verge of curing most diseases, including cancer and AIDS. The average life expectancy will reach well into the 90s.

And society as a result will become dominated by geriatric interests that siphon funds from the non-voting youth.

Colonies will be built in orbit, on the moon, on asteroids, and on Mars by 2040. Space travel will be much easier and much cheaper. Compared to today, space ships to other worlds will seem like a cruise, largely because these ships will be built in orbit. Several space elevators might be in operation by 2040.

No one will embark on these hypothetical spacecraft for the same reasons people are shying away from air travel. Of course, since no Western capitalist worth his stock portfolio would ever invest in such a risky venture anyway, space will remain uninhabited until some younger, more intrepid civilization pushes into the big black several centuries hence.

The iron and steel age of industrialization will decline, and be replaced by the age of carbon. Carbon will become the new major industrial material, from which future civilization will be built. By 2040, science and technology would seem like magic by today's standards. There will be a consensus that we have transited to a Type I Civilization.

Kardashev nowhere intimated that it would be Western civilization that reached the first step in his progression.

By the 2020s, America will finally move past racism. The new concept of nationality will be all-inclusive. By the 2030s, the main moral issues facing society will be related to transhumanism.

So racism supplanted by specieism as humanity diverges into a number of parahuman strains. The last time Homo sapiens coexisted with another hominid race, the Neanderthals were driven to extinction. Before that, Homo erectus had a nasty habit of eating Australopithecines. Yipes.

Originally Posted by madscientist

If the next major scientific revolution (one that "overthrows" special relativity) doesn't happen during the Crisis, it will happen during the High.

This is like saying Relativity "overthrew" Newtonian mechanics, which "overthrew" Euclidean geometry. New scientific theories build on their predecessors, which become subsets of the new theory. They don't replace them.

The next High will see fundamentalism defeated, whether it is Islamic or Christian. This, and the next scientific revolution, will cause a new intellectual Enlightenment.

And from where exactly will the secularists muster the moral authority to quash millennia-old religious beliefs? The thing about religion is that it is in no way impacted by reason. The dictionary definition of faith, as it applies in a religious context, is firm belief in something for which there is no proof. Fundamentalism is a reaction to deteriorating social conditions. Arabs feel they've been handed the smelly end of history and find solace in the only certainty they know: the purifying wrath of Allah. Christians too turn to God as a bulwark against the moral turpitude of their dying civilization.

Humanism will become the dominant ideology worldwide.

It already is. Which is why so many people are returning to religion in despair at what secular humanists have done to the world.

The Islamic world will become secularized, and will participate in the Enlightenment. Muslims will NOT become the 1790s Jacobins or 1950s Communists.

Oh ... wow. This is of course about as likely as all Japanese suddenly voting Libertarian. Moslems will be marginalized, and in response will become increasingly apocalyptic in outlook. Eventually, Islam will either reform itself after a protracted series of sectarian wars, or it will be quarantined and euthanized by the rest of the planet in much the same way as a rabid dog.

Neither will organized religion disappear. Religion will, however, will become more humanistic as fundamentalism is attacked.

Religion will become more mystical and irrational as people flounder about in search of elusive meaning and purpose.

The "third world" will disappear. During their own 4Ts, they will opt for modernization. Most of the nations will reach a standard of living that westerners experience today by 2040.

The Third World will migrate en masse to the First World in order to claim some of its dwindling prosperity, depressing living standards across the board. The egalitarian aspirations of democracy will finally be achieved as everyone becomes equally abject and immiserated.

Colonialism will be a thing of the past. The United States will get through the Crisis mostly intact, except that its imperialism will be crushed by "third world" revolution both during and after the Crisis. But even so, America by the mid 2020s could very well enjoy a standard of living and quality of live much better than today.

The United States will bankrupt itself through overextension and the Third World will be left "unmolested", at which point it will promptly collapse into anarchy and warlordism.

With this, America's economy will largely be domestic. Alternative energy sources, such as solar, hydrogen, ZPE, or fusion will rise, and by 2040, fossil fuels will mostly be a thing of the past. All of these sources will produce much more energy than humans will need.

You've got one thing right: fossil fuels will be gone by mid-century. If anything economical replaces them, it will still lead to global warming, however. This is simple thermodynamics: as humans consume more energy, more of it will be lost as waste heat. This waste heat radiates into the atmosphere and temperatures rise. In the long-term, Earth -- so beloved by the eco-bunnies -- is a death trap that will get humanity extinct, no matter what it does to or for the environment.

Mexico will be seemingly integrated into the US, at least economically. This could even begin a movement for Mexico to be annexed to the US, if it doesn't happen during the Crisis. It will be harder to annex the Central American nations, however. At the most extreme, this could even begin a continent wide movement to coalesce into one nation.

Actually, many Mexicans are already agitating for annexation ... of the American Southwest. They call that part of the country "Aztlan" and would like nothing more than to "reclaim" it from the dirty anglo invaders who stole the territory back in the 19th century, when Mexicans weren't using it for anything productive and the land was largely devoid of inhabitants.

With the new baby boom, the global population will suddenly begin to surge. During the Crisis era, many people will have migrated into the Heartland and into the Rockies. In other words, away from coastal areas. With lebensraum much more limited on both coasts, the Midwest will see a boom in population and activity, as will the Rockies, as will much of Canada during the next High. Tourism will boom worldwide, and in space.

And how will they do this? By squatting on farmland? This entire continent is owned already, and what parts of the Midwest aren't being used for food production are purposely kept fallow by land speculators in order to drive up real-estate prices in those overcrowded coastal areas.

Even the production of food will be changed. With a new trust in institutions, many will push for genetically modified foods. As aquaculture expands, seafood will overtake grazing animals as the main source of meat. As such, Americans will have solved the problem of obesity, and see a marked improvement in health. The population of large fish will be restored. Hydroponics will also be utilized to the max. Many urban areas will contain vast hydroponics farms. These will also be very popular in the desert areas, in the Rockies, and in northern areas. These would make Canada able to support a population much larger than it can today. With nuclear fusion and OTECs, the water shortage problem will be solved. There will be enough energy to pump water everywhere on the planet.

See my comments above about heat pollution from all this cheap energy. Also, while food production may indeed change as you say, it will not lead to slimmer, healthier Americans. Obesity in this country is a consequence of bad eating habits and a sedentary lifestyle. Sumo wrestlers get fat on nothing but rice and steamed vegetables; Americans will continue to be fat whether they're snarfing BBQ McRibs or gorging themselves on soy protein.

Scientists will perfect recycling. We will be able to recycle both organic and inorganic products. Mining will become a more minor industry. However, by the second half of the High, mining in space will begin. Scientists will finally conclude exploration of this planet. Every single nook and cranny will be chartered. Much more scientists will live in the arctic. The oceans will also see very extensive exploration. With sea farming, extensive colonies will be built on the oceans.

They will do this with an obsolescent and horribly expensive shuttle fleet that is slowly attriting into nonexistence, and with NASA probes that more often than not suffer instrument failure before ever arriving at their destinations. They will do this despite a political fixation on comfort and security that leads to wasteful social and defense spending at the expense of scientific research and civil engineering projects.

New migration patterns will be greatly aided with new modes of transportation. By the 2020s, flying cars will be a hot item. New public transporation will be built. The airline industry will continue to decline as flying cars become popular. However, the hypersonic flight industry will skyrocket. People will be able to jet from New York to Tokyo in less than an hour.

Jane! Get me off this crazy thing! You will notice that the Concorde jet, the world's only supersonic passenger aircraft, was decomissioned because it was deemed too expensive to operate (and had suffered some spectacular design failures over its operational lifetime). Airlines will continue to decline because people are afraid to fly, and those who must fly resent being manhandled by surly airport personnel. The introduction of ballistic suborbital flights -- if it even happens -- will not change this.

By today's standards, the 2020s will have limitless bandwidth, limitless computing power, and limitless storage space. With this, grid computing will be very popular. Movies, television, music, games, text, will also use the Internet as their main platform. Everything will now be "on demand."

This is actually a pretty reasonable prediction, but one caveat: the proliferation of digital recording technologies and storage media will lead to draconian intellectual property laws enforced with the same arbitrariness and casual disregard for civil liberties as today's drug laws.

The war against disease will experience substantial gains. We will seem on the verge of curing most diseases, including cancer and AIDS. The average life expectancy will reach well into the 90s.

And society as a result will become dominated by geriatric interests that siphon funds from the non-voting youth.

Colonies will be built in orbit, on the moon, on asteroids, and on Mars by 2040. Space travel will be much easier and much cheaper. Compared to today, space ships to other worlds will seem like a cruise, largely because these ships will be built in orbit. Several space elevators might be in operation by 2040.

No one will embark on these hypothetical spacecraft for the same reasons people are shying away from air travel. Of course, since no Western capitalist worth his stock portfolio would ever invest in such a risky venture anyway, space will remain uninhabited until some younger, more intrepid civilization pushes into the big black several centuries hence.

The iron and steel age of industrialization will decline, and be replaced by the age of carbon. Carbon will become the new major industrial material, from which future civilization will be built. By 2040, science and technology would seem like magic by today's standards. There will be a consensus that we have transited to a Type I Civilization.

Kardashev nowhere intimated that it would be Western civilization that reached the first step in his progression.

By the 2020s, America will finally move past racism. The new concept of nationality will be all-inclusive. By the 2030s, the main moral issues facing society will be related to transhumanism.

So racism supplanted by specieism as humanity diverges into a number of parahuman strains. The last time Homo sapiens coexisted with another hominid race, the Neanderthals were driven to extinction. Before that, Homo habilis had a nasty habit of eating Australopithecines. Yipes.

Originally Posted by Arkham '80

...You've got one thing right: fossil fuels will be gone by mid-century...

Just one thought on this. While I tend to lean in your direction, an idea circulating among credible scientists (and thanks to Sean Love for pointing it out) concern's Thomas Gold's "beep, hot biosphere. If he is right about the microbes, and about the deep, geologic hydrocarbon cycle, then there is a clear process by which the world's petroleum supply might be partly or entirely regenerative.

One thing that really gets to me about this is a bit subtle--it is the oil claimed to be inside or under the Earth's continental shields. (Vince could speak to this quite well, as he lives on the edge the "Cambrian shield.") Here's the funny part. Since these are the oldest of the Earth's mantle rocks, you've got to ask where their petroleum reserves are coming from. Trickled down from the Carboniferous Period? Hmmm. I don't know about that. I am now officially suspicious about bugs in the deep, hot bisphere.

--Croaker

We can also ask ourselves the practical question: if oil is a renewable resource, why haven't some of the world's depleted wells renewed themselves? The global oil production peak, when half the world's oil has been pumped and the rest becomes increasingly hard to extract, isn't due for a few more years, but U.S. domestic production peaked about 1970. Our domestic oil production has only gone down since then. Why hasn't it come back up?

Incidentally, the way this works means that the world's oil most likely won't be gone by mid-century. Production will slow down, demand continue to increase, price shoot through the roof, a change in energy structure be forced, and the rest of the oil after that will stay in the ground except for what can be used by the plastics and chemical industries or for other non-fuel uses.

I just love that dialogue between Madscientist and Arkham. If that isn't a clear case of Hero optimism meeting Nomad pessimism, I'm a rabbit.

And that, by the way, prefigures one aspect of the next High. We will have optimistic Millies entering midlife, feeling their muscle and ready to remake the world, calling for this, that, and the other thing, while burnt-out Xers sit in power, applying the brakes. The grand, visionary projects like those Robert describes, and others put forth by his peers, will mostly wait until the Awakening to actually be attempted. During the High, they will be restricted to the drawing board.

That's the way it was in this saeculum, anyway. From Medicare to civil rights legislation to men on the Moon, it was almost all done in the Awakening, not the High.

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

We can also ask ourselves the practical question: if oil is a renewable resource, why haven't some of the world's depleted wells renewed themselves? The global oil production peak, when half the world's oil has been pumped and the rest becomes increasingly hard to extract, isn't due for a few more years, but U.S. domestic production peaked about 1970. Our domestic oil production has only gone down since then. Why hasn't it come back up?

Incidentally, the way this works means that the world's oil most likely won't be gone by mid-century. Production will slow down, demand continue to increase, price shoot through the roof, a change in energy structure be forced, and the rest of the oil after that will stay in the ground except for what can be used by the plastics and chemical industries or for other non-fuel uses.

Brian,

The replenishing Croak is talking about would likely take a long time. Just for fun, take a gander at the book he linked to.

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

I just love that dialogue between Madscientist and Arkham. If that isn't a clear case of Hero optimism meeting Nomad pessimism, I'm a rabbit.

You misapprehend me. I actually believe the long-term prospects for the human race are fairly good, provided it can escape this death-trap of a planet before the next dinosaur-killer resets the evolutionary clock. But I do not believe the long-term prospects for the West are good. No civilization is immortal, and ours is fast approaching its end. Other, more vital civilizations will cannibalize our physical and intellectual remains and eventually expand into space, but that will be many decades or centuries from now, long after I am dead.

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

I just love that dialogue between Madscientist and Arkham. If that isn't a clear case of Hero optimism meeting Nomad pessimism, I'm a rabbit.

You misapprehend me. I actually believe the long-term prospects for the human race are fairly good, provided it can escape this death-trap of a planet before the next dinosaur-killer resets the evolutionary clock. But I do not believe the long-term prospects for the West are good. No civilization is immortal, and ours is fast approaching its end. Other, more vital civilizations will cannibalize our physical and intellectual remains and eventually expand into space, but that will be many decades or centuries from now, long after I am dead.

Originally Posted by Arkham '80

But I do not believe the long-term prospects for the West are good. No civilization is immortal, and ours is fast approaching its end. Other, more vital civilizations will cannibalize our physical and intellectual remains and eventually expand into space, but that will be many decades or centuries from now, long after I am dead.

Now, there's a sentiment that should please the Brian Rushes and Eric Meeces of the forum to no end. :twisted:

Originally Posted by Arkham '80

But I do not believe the long-term prospects for the West are good. No civilization is immortal, and ours is fast approaching its end. Other, more vital civilizations will cannibalize our physical and intellectual remains and eventually expand into space, but that will be many decades or centuries from now, long after I am dead.

Now, there's a sentiment that should please the Brian Rushes and Eric Meeces of the forum to no end. :twisted: