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Thread: The 2016 Election will be awful. - Page 6







Post#126 at 11-10-2014 04:24 PM by XYMOX_4AD_84 [at joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,073]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
(A hint: however nasty the Great Depression was an excellent time for starting a business. For many of the Lost there was no alternative, and it is arguable that their formation of small businesses did as much to pull America out of the Depression as did the New Deal).
Exhibit A, my grandfather, 1930s: Corporate guy -> Insurance salesman -> Rancher / grain grower / dairyman.







Post#127 at 11-10-2014 04:27 PM by XYMOX_4AD_84 [at joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,073]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Let's look at some cosmic scores for 2016 presidential candidates.

This score is based on statistical analysis of candidates' charts in the 19th and 20th centuries, and which aspects (angles between planets) appear charts of winners and losers. The score represents number of aspects in a chart that have a favorable record, compared to number of aspects that have an unfavorable record. Highest percentage should win, and no-one with a losing or even percentage should win. Notice how close the scores often are in close elections.

This system has worked well in the past. Let's check some races and nominee scores from the past:
* did not work

2012: Obama 8-2, Romney 11-5
2008: Obama 8-2, McCain 9-10
2004: GW Bush 15-3, Kerry 7-9
2000: GW Bush 15-3, Gore 13-6
1996: Clinton 13-2, Dole 9-12
1992: Clinton 13-2, GHW Bush 15-6, Perot 10-13
1988: GHW Bush 15-6, Dukakis 5-15
1984: Reagan 14-4, Mondale 8-14
*1980: Reagan 14-4, Carter 13-0
1976: Carter 13-0, Ford 14-6
1972: Nixon 12-4, McGovern 8-8
1968: Nixon 12-4, Humphrey 12-7, Wallace 6-4
*1964: L Johnson 12-9, Goldwater 20-10
*1960: Kennedy 13-7, Nixon 12-4
1952-56: Eisenhower 15-8, Stevenson 10-21
1948: Truman 18-3, Dewey 4-6
1944: F Roosevelt 13-5, Dewey 4-6
1940: F Roosevelt 13-5, Wilkie 7-6
1936: FDR 13-5, Landon 6-18
1932: FDR 13-5, Hoover 6-13
*1928: Hoover 6-13, Smith 7-7 (two losers!)

Some possible candidates for 2016:

Democratic

Hillary Clinton 9-8
Bernie Sanders 10-0
Jim Webb 14-8
Elizabeth Warren 9-5
Cory Booker 10-3
Joe Biden 14-11
Martin O'Malley 14-14 ***
Joe Manchin 14-7
Andrew Cuomo 10-7 **
Brian Schweitzer 10-7
Al Gore 13-6
Kirsten Gillibrand 12-13
John Hickenlooper 18-13
Tim Kaine 8-15
Richard Blumenthal 15-3
Tammy Baldwin 12-8 ***
George Clooney 16-12 ***

Republican

Jeb Bush 16-6
Rob Portman 19-10
Mitt Romney 11-5
Rand Paul 12-8 ***
Marco Rubio 17-12
Paul Ryan 16-13
Chris Christie 16-15 ***
Bobby Jindal 14-13
Mike Huckabee 6-6
Ted Cruz 4-6
John Thune 12-7 ***
Mitch Daniels 10-13
John Boehner 11-9
Rock Santorum 7-7
Rick Perry 9-5
John Kasich 8-15
Scott Walker 6-10
Sam Brownback 8-12

**cannot win in 2016 due to Saturn return
*** if elected in 2016, would lose for 2nd term due to Saturn return, and cannot win in 2020
OK, sticking my neck out for 2016:

Clinton v Huckabee.

You read it here first.







Post#128 at 11-10-2014 04:36 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Kepi View Post
Only because you have a rather terminal case of prophet borne myopia. I'm not talking about ideals. I'm talking about fact. Your generation's mismanagement started with your inability to understand how competition in pricing works. The fact that you guys are blindsided by price bubbles all the time is testament to that fact. The fact that you guys went along with the 401 swindle, an other testament. The fact that your business practices have two moves: reduce salaries, remove benefits, another.

It's not that you guys promote competition as an ideal. It's that for some reason you guys don't understand the basics of it in practice, and so managing it? Forget it. Boomers, like all prophets, love superlatives and developing overly complex ranking systems. It's always their downfall. Unfortunately for us, you guys never seemed to develop the prophet virtues that balance that out.
We've had price bubbles recently, on two notable occasions: the dot come bubble and the mortgage bubble. Again, I think you lump all people older than yourself into the category of "boomers." No doubt some people who got caught up in the bubbles are boomers, but others also were caught up in them. But it's true, except for myself, there weren't many others who were good enough "prophets" to see the bubbles bursting. But I don't have much confidence that millennials will have any greater foresight, given their propensity to be slackers. You think this is a generational problem, but unlike you I don't see any generation that ever managed things any better than boomers did.

But by a long shot, to any of it. Blue Boomers are just as likely to start bombing brown people as anyone. Ask Clinton. Ask Obama. Shoot, Hillary is chomping at the bit to nuke Iran. Blue Boomers didn't develop solutions, they monkeyed with Republican economics throughout the nineties, and decried a public option in healthcare even though they held the entirety of congress. They dashed net neutrality, they won't stop spitting on us, and despite the fact that Obama tried to make it an issue the Democrats would rather argue about a 30 year old court case than fix our decaying infrastructure. We aren't equally culpable, the Democrats didn't do their job and we didn't stop them from getting the boot. I tried to think of one worthwhile thing that that useless party did for me in the past two years and I really couldn't think of a single one.
These are blue vs. red problems. The Republicans have been by far the greater war-mongers. Obama and Clinton may lob a few bombs in ways that kill innocent folks. Blue Boomers do object to this. But the Bush's involved the USA in unnecessary wars that killed thousands, while Carter, Clinton and Obama pursued diplomacy and multi-lateral actions in ways that brought good results. Hillary will not nuke Iran; she is a skilled diplomat who if elected will also pursue solutions, not war unless necessary. If Jeb Bush is elected, expect more wars.

I think I already listed worthwhile things the Democrats did for "you." They created a budget surplus, they reduced the wars or didn't start them. They raised wages and credits while Republicans kept them down. They have passed regulations on cars and carbon that will mitigate climate change to an extent. They gave health coverage to some folks that didn't have it, and made the system more fair for you. The only thing saving net neutrality is Democratic appointees to the FCC. If these measures were inadequate in your opinion, that's because stronger ones were blocked by Republicans and Silent DINOs, not blue Boomer Democrats. YOu can't blame Democrats because Republicans block measures to improve infrastructure.

You are now equallyculpable, Millennials and X/Yers. You did not vote, allowing Republicans to take over most statehouses as well as congress in sufficient measure to block any constructive action on anything for years to come. Thank you Millennials for ditching your civic nature. You have no civic nature. You are slackers just as surely as any Boomers and Xers are slackers. You have no right now to complain about your elders. You are the elders too now. You ape their ways totally.

Ramses II would agree. Nero would, too. Look where it got them. The fact is we really have all the power. At ant given time, we can show up, or not, and that makes all the difference in the world.
The result of this strategy, if such it is, is total gridlock. The fact is that it's not a strategy at all, as you allege. Millennials just don't show up for midterms. It doesn't matter who's running for what. They don't understand what voting means, then. They don't even vote for the president's party in congress, even if they show up and vote for the president. How you can say Millennials have any power or civic responsibility, is beyond my comprehension. They have ZERO power and ZERO civic responsibility.

Why bother? We can just keep monkey wrenching elections until either somebody decides that our livelihoods matter more than the ideals of self absorbed nags, or we're old enough to take the power and fix it ourselves. Strikes would likely divide Millennials, as Boomer politicians would send in storm trooper cops (who would likely be Millennials at this point) with tear gas and rubber bullets, and there we are in the middle of what we don't want: Red vs. Blue Boomer civil war.
Strikes were your idea, in your last post. So you've already given up on it?

And you never have. It's all you guys have ever wanted, and if you're going to do it, you'll have to do it yourselves.
Because you guys refuse to understand what is happening in America, or to take any action about it. You'd rather whine and blame Boomers for you OWN inaction. You'd rather blame blue Boomers for taking some action against those who resist change. And then you call this action a "needless fight among Boomers." It isn't. It's just blue boomers taking the civic responsibility that blue millennials refuse to take.

Exactly, so ask yourself the same question I ask everyone about how there's going to be some new, grand civil war. You and what army? I mean, If you guys want to grab a rifle and actually march, be my guest, but my guess is that you'll all be dead from heat exhaustion and over exertion by the time you reach the battle field. The fact is that abdication is the smartest thing we can do. Nobody gets shot over which side of the egg is appropriate to crack, nobody gets turned into second class citizens anymore than they already have, a bunch of cranky idealist failures go home unhappy. I don't see a way that we're losing anything.
The fight will have to be made. If we boomers are the only ones fighting, then it will probably be a non-violent fight for the reason you say. But since Millennials will abdicate the fight, regardless of whether it is violent or not, you guys will have no say at all in the outcome. You will just stand by and watch.

Funny, I can think if seven Democratic senators who would tell you differently because they won't be senators anymore come January. We didn't even have to do anything. It's gas and brakes. If the Democrats do their job, we show up and vote and they win. If they don't, we don't show up and they lose.
Total bullshit. The Democrats did their job. You stayed home because the Republicans blocked the Democrats from doing their job. You merely voted in favor of Republicans blocking the Democrats from doing their job. You ratified the status quo. That's all you did. Face it. Face the failure of your generation.

Sure we do. We show up and make sure that the government stays gridlocked. It's organized and involves voting half the time. We take a completely coherent stand on everything: we don't want either of you to win. We want you to stay gridlocked until either the time comes that someone represents us or we can systematically knock you all out of the power structure.
You just refuse to vote, and you will refuse to vote even if someone who "represents you" comes along. You are just slackers. You have no coherent program; no alternative to the Democratic or Republican program to offer. You have refused to state one. No-one knows what "representing you" means, because you have no coherent program. If you "knock us all out," the new boss will be the same as the old boss.

We're already following a piper, his name is "Neitherofyou".
Millennials are incapable of following any piper. There IS no "neither of you." You have no program; you have no candidates. Millennials just don't understand democracy. That's the entire problem.
Last edited by Eric the Green; 11-10-2014 at 04:52 PM.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#129 at 11-10-2014 04:54 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by XYMOX_4AD_84 View Post
OK, sticking my neck out for 2016:

Clinton v Huckabee.

You read it here first.
Huckabee has no chance.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#130 at 11-10-2014 05:08 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62 View Post
No I don't. Remember that GenX and Millies have been subjected to speech codes in universities.

Cf. http://www.aaup.org/report/freedom-e...s-speech-codes

So my verdict. Speech codes violate the 1st amendment. Furthermore, the definition of "majority" / "minority" is becoming less relevant as each day passes.
I absolutely agree with your last point; I don't use the terms anymore. It is not PC

But it's not so bad if people are required to refer to people in respectful ways. Sure, I don't agree with censorship and penalities for saying stuff. But it isn't as if speech codes are a major problem. It may be over-zealous attempts to get people to be polite and respectful. Not that big a deal.

So, if you want to get GenX/Millies off to the polls, I assert again that the issue of student loans = financial rape of said generations. So, where was this issue discussed in the recent 2014 elections? I heard nothing, absolutely nothing about this. Student loan bondage is an equal opportunity screw job and yet nobody ever brings it up.
Democrats bring up that issue all the time. Ask Elizabeth Warren. Young voters ought to know what Democrats' stand on this is. If they don't, and therefore don't vote, that's their entire fucking problem, and they will pay the price for their own fucking lack of civic responsibility.

Millennials voted for the status quo Tuesday. What is the status quo? Gross inequality and economic decline for everyone but the 1%. Student loan bondage. Tax breaks for billionaires. Outsourcing, automation and massive unemployment. Gross inequality of salaries, and slave wages. Discrimination against poorer ethnic groups and women. No economic stimulus and no infrastructure work. Firing teachers and fire-fighters. Pollution, droughts, floods, hurricanes, species die-offs, earthquakes, dead oceans. The list goes on. That's what Millennials voted for, and that's what they'll get, for the remainder of their young years at least.

So stop complaining about Boomers. Gen Xers and Millennials, you have now made your bed. You might as well stay asleep while you lie in it.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#131 at 11-10-2014 05:13 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Danilynn View Post
regardless of when I will not allow my kids to be cannon fodder. No matter how old I may be, as long as I am breathing and walking I will take their place. I brought them in this world and I made a promise I intend to keep, which I will protect them no matter the personal cost as long as I breathe.
Lots of luck on that. First, if America should become as nasty as some of the scenarios that I present come true, your kids will be brainwashed in such schools are there are to believe in the doctrine that there is nothing sweeter than to die for the Nation (meaning, in fact, the ruling elites who seek to expand their dominion into places in which it is unwelcome). Second, if you resist, you will be murdered -- and it may be your brainwashed kids who have reported you to the secret police.

I know how far better than you how Nazi Germany and Stalin's Soviet Union worked -- replacing conscience, empathy, and the capacity for critical thinking with blind obedience with fear as the enforcer.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#132 at 11-10-2014 05:56 PM by herbal tee [at joined Dec 2005 #posts 7,115]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Huckabee has no chance.
Agreed. He won't be far right enough in economics to win the nomination. Huck had a fairly populist by GOP standards term as gov. of Ark. I recently heard a Tea Party type describe him as ''A pro life liberal.''







Post#133 at 11-10-2014 08:18 PM by Kepi [at Northern, VA joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,664]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
We've had price bubbles recently, on two notable occasions: the dot come bubble and the mortgage bubble. Again, I think you lump all people older than yourself into the category of "boomers." No doubtsome people who got caught up in the bubbles are boomers, but others also were caught up in them. But it's true, except for myself, there weren't many others who were good enough "prophets" to see the bubbles bursting. But I don't have much confidence that millennials will have any greater foresight, given their propensity to be slackers. You think this is a generational problem, but unlike you I don't see any generation that ever managed things any better than boomers did.



These are blue vs. red problems. The Republicans have been by far the greater war-mongers. Obama and Clinton may lob a few bombs in ways that kill innocent folks. Blue Boomers do object to this. But the Bush's involved the USA in unnecessary wars that killed thousands, while Carter, Clinton and Obama pursued diplomacy and multi-lateral actions in ways that brought good results. Hillary will not nuke Iran; she is a skilled diplomat who if elected will also pursue solutions, not war unless necessary. If Jeb Bush is elected, expect more wars.

I think I already listed worthwhile things the Democrats did for "you." They created a budget surplus, they reduced the wars or didn't start them. They raised wages and credits while Republicans kept them down. They have passed regulations on cars and carbon that will mitigate climate change to an extent. They gave health coverage to some folks that didn't have it, and made the system more fair for you. The only thing saving net neutrality is Democratic appointees to the FCC. If these measures were inadequate in your opinion, that's because stronger ones were blocked by Republicans and Silent DINOs, not blue Boomer Democrats. YOu can't blame Democrats because Republicans block measures to improve infrastructure.

You are now equallyculpable, Millennials and X/Yers. You did not vote, allowing Republicans to take over most statehouses as well as congress in sufficient measure to block any constructive action on anything for years to come. Thank you Millennials for ditching your civic nature. You have no civic nature. You are slackers just as surely as any Boomers and Xers are slackers. You have no right now to complain about your elders. You are the elders too now. You ape their ways totally.

The result of this strategy, if such it is, is total gridlock. The fact is that it's not a strategy at all, as you allege. Millennials just don't show up for midterms. It doesn't matter who's running for what. They don't understand what voting means, then. They don't even vote for the president's party in congress, even if they show up and vote for the president. How you can say Millennials have any power or civic responsibility, is beyond my comprehension. They have ZERO power and ZERO civic responsibility.


Strikes were your idea, in your last post. So you've already given up on it?


Because you guys refuse to understand what is happening in America, or to take any action about it. You'd rather whine and blame Boomers for you OWN inaction. You'd rather blame blue Boomers for taking some action against those who resist change. And then you call this action a "needless fight among Boomers." It isn't. It's just blue boomers taking the civic responsibility that blue millennials refuse to take.



The fight will have to be made. If we boomers are the only ones fighting, then it will probably be a non-violent fight for the reason you say. But since Millennials will abdicate the fight, regardless of whether it is violent or not, you guys will have no say at all in the outcome. You will just stand by and watch.


Total bullshit. The Democrats did their job. You stayed home because the Republicans blocked the Democrats from doing their job. You merely voted in favor of Republicans blocking the Democrats from doing their job. You ratified the status quo. That's all you did. Face it. Face the failure of your generation.


You just refuse to vote, and you will refuse to vote even if someone who "represents you" comes along. You are just slackers. You have no coherent program; no alternative to the Democratic or Republican program to offer. You have refused to state one. No-one knows what "representing you" means, because you have no coherent program. If you "knock us all out," the new boss will be the same as the old boss.


Millennials are incapable of following any piper. There IS no "neither of you." You have no program; you have no candidates. Millennials just don't understand democracy. That's the entire problem.
See, Eric, you mistakenly think that civics in this saeculum are required to support the blue agenda, no matter what. That's not civic, that's stupid, blind, and willfully ignorant. To us, the Democratic party are a bunch of whimpering cowards at best, disingenuous at worst. So we're going to wash this dog until either it does what we say or it's dead, and we're making the sacrifice of having to deal with with the gridlock and the BS in order to try to make peaceful political progress instead of going in and lobbing off all their heads or going with the traditional flow and continue kicking problems down into the future.

We expect real solutions, and the Democrats don't want to do them. Therefore we're going to not show up when they suck. Sucking includes half assing, pandering to corporate interest when it doesn't suit the purpose of the people, pandering to stupid Awakening era identity or culture issues, war hawking, spouting rehtoric while crafting laws that are actually right-center and pretty much everything the Democratic party has done as just a matter of business as usual for the past 20 years.

Either these useless morons show up and are worth a damn, or they get fired. And I'm not the only one telling this like it is. Hers an article from a millennial who voted this election season letting the Democrats know they suck: http://m.dailykos.com/story/2014/11/...etail=facebook







Post#134 at 11-10-2014 08:35 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Kepi View Post
See, Eric, you mistakenly think that civics in this saeculum are required to support the blue agenda, no matter what. That's not civic, that's stupid, blind, and willfully ignorant. To us, the Democratic party are a bunch of whimpering cowards at best, disingenuous at worst. So we're going to wash this dog until either it does what we say or it's dead, and we're making the sacrifice of having to deal with with the gridlock and the BS in order to try to make peaceful political progress instead of going in and lobbing off all their heads or going with the traditional flow and continue kicking problems down into the future.
There's no alternative to the blue agenda, unless it be the green.

There will be no peaceful political progress through gridlock; period.

What you are doing by not voting, is kicking problems into the future. Trouble is, by now you may not have a future. You can only do so much kicking; so much slacking, so much ignorance, before young people pay the price for their neglect and irresponsibility.

We expect real solutions, and the Democrats don't want to do them. Therefore we're going to not show up when they suck. Sucking includes half assing, pandering to corporate interest when it doesn't suit the purpose of the people, pandering to stupid Awakening era identity or culture issues, war hawking, spouting rhetoric while crafting laws that are actually right-center and pretty much everything the Democratic party has done as just a matter of business as usual for the past 20 years.
What real solutions?

Democrats have no choice but to watch pandering to corporate interest by congress and legislatures, because you guys don't show up and force them to pass real solutions. They can't pass them because you don't vote. Democrats have had no power to pass anything since Jan.2010. That's your fault. You have voted for the more-hawkish party by far, by not voting. You will get what you voted for.

You can't claim to know what young people who don't vote "want." No-one can. They do not vote. All they want is the status quo, then. That's what they will get. I have less confidence now in millennials than you have in boomers. You have failed. You don't even show up.

Either these useless morons show up and are worth a damn, or they get fired. And I'm not the only one telling this like it is. Hers an article from a millennial who voted this election season letting the Democrats know they suck: http://m.dailykos.com/story/2014/11/...etail=facebook
Even though the Republicans have made it clear they won’t raise the minimum wage, legalize marijuana, or address climate change as long as they’re in power, they at least have a unified message that appeals to enough people who share their values. They can also communicate that message in a confident way. The Republican platform comes in easy-to-remember, tweet-sized sentences. We all know their buzzwords – “national security,” “family values,” “free markets.” That may translate to endless war, homophobia, and corporate feudalism for the better-informed, but for most people, those are catch phrases they can get behind.

You Democrats, on the other hand, looked pitiful in the year leading up to the midterms. You didn’t seem to stand for anything in particular, you just pointed the finger at the other guy, told us they were bad, and that you weren’t like them. That’s not enough. Take a risk, be bold. Get behind Elizabeth Warren’s 0.75 percent interest rate for student loans. Allow student debt to be abolished with bankruptcy. Push for single-payer healthcare, or at the very least a public health insurance option. Need some catchy buzzwords? Try “affordable education,” “good jobs,” and “healthy families.”
You millennials are completely foolish and ignorant, and you don't know how democracy works. There is nothing this guy advocates that we blue boomers don't support and advocate. You ought to know by now what Democrats support. You ought to know by now who is blocking it, as if I haven't told you 100 times. If you rely on what they tell you in just one campaign, and not what they have been saying all along, then you deserve the powerlessness you get. If you don't even listen to what Democrats advocate, and put words in their mouth to mimic your own frustration, then you deserve what you get. Nothing.
Last edited by Eric the Green; 11-10-2014 at 09:21 PM.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#135 at 11-10-2014 09:07 PM by Kepi [at Northern, VA joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,664]
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Quote Originally Posted by XYMOX_4AD_84 View Post
OK, sticking my neck out for 2016:

Clinton v Huckabee.

You read it here first.
Clinton is a no go because there's no way the Millennials will let her out of the primary.

Huckabee is a no go because he only appeals to the religious right which is a dwindling representation of the Republican core.

Both sides must deal with the fact that the Boomer vote, which is what they both carved up before, it's dying out much faster than expected. It's 15% down already, and rapidly decreasing. By 2016 It will probably be down to 18%. It's probably not enough to cause a realignment of coalitions, but expect more shenanigans similar to 2008, with two unexpected candidates with a lot more media drama than actual meaning.







Post#136 at 11-10-2014 09:08 PM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,595]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Huckabee has no chance.
Huckabee has no chance and he won't even try.







Post#137 at 11-10-2014 09:13 PM by JordanGoodspeed [at joined Mar 2013 #posts 3,587]
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God, the amount of sniveling and hand-wringing coming from the "bloomers" on this message board post-midterms is absolutely hysterical. Totally worth dropping back in for.







Post#138 at 11-10-2014 09:23 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Kepi View Post
Clinton is a no go because there's no way the Millennials will let her out of the primary.
Millennials will have no say because they won't vote. They'll just say, "Democrats have put up no-one I want, so I'm staying home."

Huckabee is a no go because he only appeals to the religious right which is a dwindling representation of the Republican core.

Both sides must deal with the fact that the Boomer vote, which is what they both carved up before, it's dying out much faster than expected. It's 15% down already, and rapidly decreasing. By 2016 It will probably be down to 18%. It's probably not enough to cause a realignment of coalitions, but expect more shenanigans similar to 2008, with two unexpected candidates with a lot more media drama than actual meaning.
Boomers are the only ones who vote, so we'll decide things. You won't.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#139 at 11-10-2014 09:24 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed View Post
God, the amount of sniveling and hand-wringing coming from the "bloomers" on this message board post-midterms is absolutely hysterical. Totally worth dropping back in for.
Kind of matches the slacker Millennials who were so sore and hopeless that they didn't even vote.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

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Eric A. Meece







Post#140 at 11-10-2014 09:28 PM by Kepi [at Northern, VA joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,664]
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Quote Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed View Post
God, the amount of sniveling and hand-wringing coming from the "bloomers" on this message board post-midterms is absolutely hysterical. Totally worth dropping back in for.
Just wait for the 1T. It's going to be a 20 year long comedy show.







Post#141 at 11-10-2014 09:53 PM by JordanGoodspeed [at joined Mar 2013 #posts 3,587]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Kind of matches the slacker Millennials who were so sore and hopeless that they didn't even vote.
Can't speak for the rest of my generation, but I've got mine. In the absence of something truly compelling, that'll do for now.

So, I'm back at Columbia for the last year of my undergrad, and would you believe that they've bumped the BAH for NYC up to $3750 a month!?!







Post#142 at 11-10-2014 10:22 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed View Post
God, the amount of sniveling and hand-wringing coming from the "bloomers" on this message board post-midterms is absolutely hysterical. Totally worth dropping back in for.
Very few things can bring out the 5-year-old in today's elderly like an election.







Post#143 at 11-10-2014 10:31 PM by Ragnarök_62 [at Oklahoma joined Nov 2006 #posts 5,511]
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Quote Originally Posted by Kepi View Post
Clinton is a no go because there's no way the Millennials will let her out of the primary.
I sure hope so. Clinton is a crooked as a dog's hind leg. Please choose someone with some ethics.


Huckabee is a no go because he only appeals to the religious right which is a dwindling representation of the Republican core.
True that as well. The lights are on, but nobody's home on that one.

Both sides must deal with the fact that the Boomer vote, which is what they both carved up before, it's dying out much faster than expected. It's 15% down already, and rapidly decreasing. By 2016 It will probably be down to 18%. It's probably not enough to cause a realignment of coalitions, but expect more shenanigans similar to 2008, with two unexpected candidates with a lot more media drama than actual meaning.
I think the trick is to somehow align the 2 largest cohort sets. [Core Millies and Jonesers]. I don't think appealing to Millies is that difficult. The problem lies in the herding cats stuff with Jonesers.
MBTI step II type : Expressive INTP

There's an annual contest at Bond University, Australia, calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term:
The winning student wrote:

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."







Post#144 at 11-10-2014 10:48 PM by Kepi [at Northern, VA joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,664]
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Quote Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed View Post
Can't speak for the rest of my generation, but I've got mine. In the absence of something truly compelling, that'll do for now.

So, I'm back at Columbia for the last year of my undergrad, and would you believe that they've bumped the BAH for NYC up to $3750 a month!?!
For me personally it was the lack of a stance on net neutrality (and look at how quick it took fire them to jump on that after the fact, if they keep it up, they might get my vote back); it was the response to ISIS because I'm tired of us acting like the great Western Savior, bringing democracy to the "savages" one bomb at a time. You've also got Yellen as the Fed Chair, who is another day late and dollar short player who has more our less stayed Bernanke's plotted course perhaps minus a month or so. Our response to the NSA spy programs are unacceptable, along with our treatment of Edward Snowden. Selling armor to cops at low, low prices has created civil rights issues which and or response has been less than adequate (which is an understatement). Affordable healthcare is inadequate.

Basically, why'd I vote for these failures in the first place? My vote has value, and I'm not going to waste it on failure.







Post#145 at 11-10-2014 11:01 PM by Ragnarök_62 [at Oklahoma joined Nov 2006 #posts 5,511]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
I absolutely agree with your last point; I don't use the terms anymore. It is not PC
That's good to hear. I applaud the fact that you realize those 2 terms are getting rather dated. I'd love to know what those who still use those terms would call one of my 2nd cousins.
Tribes = [Nordic of the far north of Germany sort, Celtic, Cherokee, Mexican] Come next census, he's gonna have a migraine.

But it's not so bad if people are required to refer to people in respectful ways. Sure, I don't agree with censorship and penalties for saying stuff. But it isn't as if speech codes are a major problem. It may be over-zealous attempts to get people to be polite and respectful. Not that big a deal.
I prefer to call it a case of Boomers jumping the shark, sorry.


Democrats bring up that issue all the time. Ask Elizabeth Warren. Young voters ought to know what Democrats' stand on this is. If they don't, and therefore don't vote, that's their entire fucking problem, and they will pay the price for their own fucking lack of civic responsibility.
They do? If so, that boat never arrived here in Oklahoma. Don't get me wrong, I'd vote for Warren in a heartbeat given her well known take on banksters. I'm a registered D and no literature in the mail or anything. Hell, I even vote often!

Here's the damn problem once again as to whats driving college tuition sky high.
http://www.popecenter.org/commentari...e.html?id=2408
http://mfeldstein.com/the-rising-non...-of-minnesota/

A chart from my Alma Mater

http://www.irs.ttu.edu/Tuition/TUITFEE6.HTM

So, how fucking hard is it to use this data and get the point across?

Note the 1985-1986 break point. That was when most Jonesers were graduated off.
There's another one at 2002-2003.

[quote]
Millennials voted for the status quo Tuesday. What is the status quo? Gross inequality and economic decline for everyone but the 1%. Student loan bondage. Tax breaks for billionaires. Outsourcing, automation and massive unemployment. Gross inequality of salaries, and slave wages. Discrimination against poorer ethnic groups and women. No economic stimulus and no infrastructure work. Firing teachers and fire-fighters. Pollution, droughts, floods, hurricanes, species die-offs, earthquakes, dead oceans. The list goes on. That's what Millennials voted for, and that's what they'll get, for the remainder of their young years at least.

So stop complaining about Boomers. Gen Xers and Millennials, you have now made your bed. You might as well stay asleep while you lie in it.
We Jonesers aren't complaining. We're gonna smack down this stupid weed war if it's the last thing we do.

http://stupiddope.com/2014/03/20/joh...n-floridanews/

Of course, I love to bring all these wars of choice to a grinding halt as well.
MBTI step II type : Expressive INTP

There's an annual contest at Bond University, Australia, calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term:
The winning student wrote:

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."







Post#146 at 11-10-2014 11:15 PM by Kepi [at Northern, VA joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,664]
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Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62 View Post
I sure hope so. Clinton is a crooked as a dog's hind leg. Please choose someone with some ethics.




True that as well. The lights are on, but nobody's home on that one.



I think the trick is to somehow align the 2 largest cohort sets. [Core Millies and Jonesers]. I don't think appealing to Millies is that difficult. The problem lies in the herding cats stuff with Jonesers.
I think the biggest issue that Jonesers and Millennials would face is in foreign policy, because a lot of the Jonesers seem more emotional and aggressive. I think it might be the steady diet of TV news. However, the Jones cusp does hold some of my favorite punk rock, hip-hop, and metal icons politically. I mean you've got Rollins, Mackaye, Chuck D, Scott Ian? That's just scratching the surface. I could potentially deal with the right mix. Obama is Jones cusp, I just wish he was a more of a dominate player... So maybe a little more aggression isn't off the table, it just needs to be directed in the right direction and tempered with a strong sense of prioritization.







Post#147 at 11-10-2014 11:25 PM by hkq999 [at joined Dec 2013 #posts 214]
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Quote Originally Posted by Mikebert View Post

The older generations were socialized in a mass culture society. We grew up when everybody watched the same films, watched the same news, participated in the same mass market economy in which everyone had a role and everyone voted or at least believed one should vote.

What you want are things that existed in that world. They came from the mass culture that existed then, in which the older generations still alive today grew up.

That world is alien to you. You grew up in a world where people enjoyed their own cultural niche, watch news tailored to their individual taste, and participant in an array of micro-markets, in which there ware roles for only a few and most are left to serve as sort of a substratum of society. In a society where 10% can do all the jobs worth doing, what is the point of having the other 90%? There existence is pointless. That is where your generation is taking the world. When we go that culture dies with us, unless it is transmitted to you. The transmission of culture requires that the receiver is able to process it in a way that makes is meaningful within the current reality. Otherwise it does not get transmitted.
I don't think a mass culture has completely disintegrated, although it seems like it's heading in that direction. There are still blockbuster movies that everyone sees, and events that everyone talks about. There seems to be a very thin cohesion with regards to some things that's still in place. It doesn't seem like the country is any more disintegrated than it has been for the past twenty five or so years though.







Post#148 at 11-11-2014 12:24 AM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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In 2010 and 2014 the money acted, and it decided that government in America would represent wealth and privilege and make all else suffer.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#149 at 11-11-2014 12:35 AM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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So go ahead, Republicans -- extol the dubious virtues of ravaging the environment, pushing superstition as education, banning contraception, outlawing labor unions, exempting the rich from taxation while imposing brutal taxes on the non-rich, sending children back to the mines and factories, and denying the vote to the non-rich. Go ahead, and show your hidden fascist streak. The the next time we Americans won't be so foolish. 24 Reactionary seats in the Senate will be up for grabs and only ten Democratic seats will be up.

As for Americans for Prosperity and other GOP fronts -- to Hell with your Orwellian Newspeak!
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#150 at 11-11-2014 01:35 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Kepi View Post
I think the biggest issue that Jonesers and Millennials would face is in foreign policy, because a lot of the Jonesers seem more emotional and aggressive. I think it might be the steady diet of TV news. However, the Jones cusp does hold some of my favorite punk rock, hip-hop, and metal icons politically. I mean you've got Rollins, Mackaye, Chuck D, Scott Ian? That's just scratching the surface. I could potentially deal with the right mix. Obama is Jones cusp, I just wish he was a more of a dominate player... So maybe a little more aggression isn't off the table, it just needs to be directed in the right direction and tempered with a strong sense of prioritization.
Is his defense of net neutrality today a good start?

But don't expect much of him. You guys have to be aware of how our democracy works. He has no congress to work with. Don't expect him to have a magic wand.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece
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