Exhibit A, my grandfather, 1930s: Corporate guy -> Insurance salesman -> Rancher / grain grower / dairyman.Originally Posted by pbrower2a
- Join Date
- Nov 2012
- Posts
- 3,073
Exhibit A, my grandfather, 1930s: Corporate guy -> Insurance salesman -> Rancher / grain grower / dairyman.
OK, sticking my neck out for 2016:
Clinton v Huckabee.
You read it here first.
We've had price bubbles recently, on two notable occasions: the dot come bubble and the mortgage bubble. Again, I think you lump all people older than yourself into the category of "boomers." No doubt some people who got caught up in the bubbles are boomers, but others also were caught up in them. But it's true, except for myself, there weren't many others who were good enough "prophets" to see the bubbles bursting. But I don't have much confidence that millennials will have any greater foresight, given their propensity to be slackers. You think this is a generational problem, but unlike you I don't see any generation that ever managed things any better than boomers did.
These are blue vs. red problems. The Republicans have been by far the greater war-mongers. Obama and Clinton may lob a few bombs in ways that kill innocent folks. Blue Boomers do object to this. But the Bush's involved the USA in unnecessary wars that killed thousands, while Carter, Clinton and Obama pursued diplomacy and multi-lateral actions in ways that brought good results. Hillary will not nuke Iran; she is a skilled diplomat who if elected will also pursue solutions, not war unless necessary. If Jeb Bush is elected, expect more wars.But by a long shot, to any of it. Blue Boomers are just as likely to start bombing brown people as anyone. Ask Clinton. Ask Obama. Shoot, Hillary is chomping at the bit to nuke Iran. Blue Boomers didn't develop solutions, they monkeyed with Republican economics throughout the nineties, and decried a public option in healthcare even though they held the entirety of congress. They dashed net neutrality, they won't stop spitting on us, and despite the fact that Obama tried to make it an issue the Democrats would rather argue about a 30 year old court case than fix our decaying infrastructure. We aren't equally culpable, the Democrats didn't do their job and we didn't stop them from getting the boot. I tried to think of one worthwhile thing that that useless party did for me in the past two years and I really couldn't think of a single one.
I think I already listed worthwhile things the Democrats did for "you." They created a budget surplus, they reduced the wars or didn't start them. They raised wages and credits while Republicans kept them down. They have passed regulations on cars and carbon that will mitigate climate change to an extent. They gave health coverage to some folks that didn't have it, and made the system more fair for you. The only thing saving net neutrality is Democratic appointees to the FCC. If these measures were inadequate in your opinion, that's because stronger ones were blocked by Republicans and Silent DINOs, not blue Boomer Democrats. YOu can't blame Democrats because Republicans block measures to improve infrastructure.
You are now equallyculpable, Millennials and X/Yers. You did not vote, allowing Republicans to take over most statehouses as well as congress in sufficient measure to block any constructive action on anything for years to come. Thank you Millennials for ditching your civic nature. You have no civic nature. You are slackers just as surely as any Boomers and Xers are slackers. You have no right now to complain about your elders. You are the elders too now. You ape their ways totally.
The result of this strategy, if such it is, is total gridlock. The fact is that it's not a strategy at all, as you allege. Millennials just don't show up for midterms. It doesn't matter who's running for what. They don't understand what voting means, then. They don't even vote for the president's party in congress, even if they show up and vote for the president. How you can say Millennials have any power or civic responsibility, is beyond my comprehension. They have ZERO power and ZERO civic responsibility.Ramses II would agree. Nero would, too. Look where it got them. The fact is we really have all the power. At ant given time, we can show up, or not, and that makes all the difference in the world.
Strikes were your idea, in your last post. So you've already given up on it?Why bother? We can just keep monkey wrenching elections until either somebody decides that our livelihoods matter more than the ideals of self absorbed nags, or we're old enough to take the power and fix it ourselves. Strikes would likely divide Millennials, as Boomer politicians would send in storm trooper cops (who would likely be Millennials at this point) with tear gas and rubber bullets, and there we are in the middle of what we don't want: Red vs. Blue Boomer civil war.
Because you guys refuse to understand what is happening in America, or to take any action about it. You'd rather whine and blame Boomers for you OWN inaction. You'd rather blame blue Boomers for taking some action against those who resist change. And then you call this action a "needless fight among Boomers." It isn't. It's just blue boomers taking the civic responsibility that blue millennials refuse to take.And you never have. It's all you guys have ever wanted, and if you're going to do it, you'll have to do it yourselves.
The fight will have to be made. If we boomers are the only ones fighting, then it will probably be a non-violent fight for the reason you say. But since Millennials will abdicate the fight, regardless of whether it is violent or not, you guys will have no say at all in the outcome. You will just stand by and watch.Exactly, so ask yourself the same question I ask everyone about how there's going to be some new, grand civil war. You and what army? I mean, If you guys want to grab a rifle and actually march, be my guest, but my guess is that you'll all be dead from heat exhaustion and over exertion by the time you reach the battle field. The fact is that abdication is the smartest thing we can do. Nobody gets shot over which side of the egg is appropriate to crack, nobody gets turned into second class citizens anymore than they already have, a bunch of cranky idealist failures go home unhappy. I don't see a way that we're losing anything.
Total bullshit. The Democrats did their job. You stayed home because the Republicans blocked the Democrats from doing their job. You merely voted in favor of Republicans blocking the Democrats from doing their job. You ratified the status quo. That's all you did. Face it. Face the failure of your generation.Funny, I can think if seven Democratic senators who would tell you differently because they won't be senators anymore come January. We didn't even have to do anything. It's gas and brakes. If the Democrats do their job, we show up and vote and they win. If they don't, we don't show up and they lose.
You just refuse to vote, and you will refuse to vote even if someone who "represents you" comes along. You are just slackers. You have no coherent program; no alternative to the Democratic or Republican program to offer. You have refused to state one. No-one knows what "representing you" means, because you have no coherent program. If you "knock us all out," the new boss will be the same as the old boss.Sure we do. We show up and make sure that the government stays gridlocked. It's organized and involves voting half the time. We take a completely coherent stand on everything: we don't want either of you to win. We want you to stay gridlocked until either the time comes that someone represents us or we can systematically knock you all out of the power structure.
Millennials are incapable of following any piper. There IS no "neither of you." You have no program; you have no candidates. Millennials just don't understand democracy. That's the entire problem.We're already following a piper, his name is "Neitherofyou".
Last edited by Eric the Green; 11-10-2014 at 04:52 PM.
Huckabee has no chance.
I absolutely agree with your last point; I don't use the terms anymore. It is not PC
But it's not so bad if people are required to refer to people in respectful ways. Sure, I don't agree with censorship and penalities for saying stuff. But it isn't as if speech codes are a major problem. It may be over-zealous attempts to get people to be polite and respectful. Not that big a deal.
Democrats bring up that issue all the time. Ask Elizabeth Warren. Young voters ought to know what Democrats' stand on this is. If they don't, and therefore don't vote, that's their entire fucking problem, and they will pay the price for their own fucking lack of civic responsibility.So, if you want to get GenX/Millies off to the polls, I assert again that the issue of student loans = financial rape of said generations. So, where was this issue discussed in the recent 2014 elections? I heard nothing, absolutely nothing about this. Student loan bondage is an equal opportunity screw job and yet nobody ever brings it up.
Millennials voted for the status quo Tuesday. What is the status quo? Gross inequality and economic decline for everyone but the 1%. Student loan bondage. Tax breaks for billionaires. Outsourcing, automation and massive unemployment. Gross inequality of salaries, and slave wages. Discrimination against poorer ethnic groups and women. No economic stimulus and no infrastructure work. Firing teachers and fire-fighters. Pollution, droughts, floods, hurricanes, species die-offs, earthquakes, dead oceans. The list goes on. That's what Millennials voted for, and that's what they'll get, for the remainder of their young years at least.
So stop complaining about Boomers. Gen Xers and Millennials, you have now made your bed. You might as well stay asleep while you lie in it.
Lots of luck on that. First, if America should become as nasty as some of the scenarios that I present come true, your kids will be brainwashed in such schools are there are to believe in the doctrine that there is nothing sweeter than to die for the Nation (meaning, in fact, the ruling elites who seek to expand their dominion into places in which it is unwelcome). Second, if you resist, you will be murdered -- and it may be your brainwashed kids who have reported you to the secret police.
I know how far better than you how Nazi Germany and Stalin's Soviet Union worked -- replacing conscience, empathy, and the capacity for critical thinking with blind obedience with fear as the enforcer.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."
― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters
Agreed. He won't be far right enough in economics to win the nomination. Huck had a fairly populist by GOP standards term as gov. of Ark. I recently heard a Tea Party type describe him as ''A pro life liberal.''
See, Eric, you mistakenly think that civics in this saeculum are required to support the blue agenda, no matter what. That's not civic, that's stupid, blind, and willfully ignorant. To us, the Democratic party are a bunch of whimpering cowards at best, disingenuous at worst. So we're going to wash this dog until either it does what we say or it's dead, and we're making the sacrifice of having to deal with with the gridlock and the BS in order to try to make peaceful political progress instead of going in and lobbing off all their heads or going with the traditional flow and continue kicking problems down into the future.
We expect real solutions, and the Democrats don't want to do them. Therefore we're going to not show up when they suck. Sucking includes half assing, pandering to corporate interest when it doesn't suit the purpose of the people, pandering to stupid Awakening era identity or culture issues, war hawking, spouting rehtoric while crafting laws that are actually right-center and pretty much everything the Democratic party has done as just a matter of business as usual for the past 20 years.
Either these useless morons show up and are worth a damn, or they get fired. And I'm not the only one telling this like it is. Hers an article from a millennial who voted this election season letting the Democrats know they suck: http://m.dailykos.com/story/2014/11/...etail=facebook
There's no alternative to the blue agenda, unless it be the green.
There will be no peaceful political progress through gridlock; period.
What you are doing by not voting, is kicking problems into the future. Trouble is, by now you may not have a future. You can only do so much kicking; so much slacking, so much ignorance, before young people pay the price for their neglect and irresponsibility.
What real solutions?We expect real solutions, and the Democrats don't want to do them. Therefore we're going to not show up when they suck. Sucking includes half assing, pandering to corporate interest when it doesn't suit the purpose of the people, pandering to stupid Awakening era identity or culture issues, war hawking, spouting rhetoric while crafting laws that are actually right-center and pretty much everything the Democratic party has done as just a matter of business as usual for the past 20 years.
Democrats have no choice but to watch pandering to corporate interest by congress and legislatures, because you guys don't show up and force them to pass real solutions. They can't pass them because you don't vote. Democrats have had no power to pass anything since Jan.2010. That's your fault. You have voted for the more-hawkish party by far, by not voting. You will get what you voted for.
You can't claim to know what young people who don't vote "want." No-one can. They do not vote. All they want is the status quo, then. That's what they will get. I have less confidence now in millennials than you have in boomers. You have failed. You don't even show up.
Either these useless morons show up and are worth a damn, or they get fired. And I'm not the only one telling this like it is. Hers an article from a millennial who voted this election season letting the Democrats know they suck: http://m.dailykos.com/story/2014/11/...etail=facebookYou millennials are completely foolish and ignorant, and you don't know how democracy works. There is nothing this guy advocates that we blue boomers don't support and advocate. You ought to know by now what Democrats support. You ought to know by now who is blocking it, as if I haven't told you 100 times. If you rely on what they tell you in just one campaign, and not what they have been saying all along, then you deserve the powerlessness you get. If you don't even listen to what Democrats advocate, and put words in their mouth to mimic your own frustration, then you deserve what you get. Nothing.Even though the Republicans have made it clear they wont raise the minimum wage, legalize marijuana, or address climate change as long as theyre in power, they at least have a unified message that appeals to enough people who share their values. They can also communicate that message in a confident way. The Republican platform comes in easy-to-remember, tweet-sized sentences. We all know their buzzwords national security, family values, free markets. That may translate to endless war, homophobia, and corporate feudalism for the better-informed, but for most people, those are catch phrases they can get behind.
You Democrats, on the other hand, looked pitiful in the year leading up to the midterms. You didnt seem to stand for anything in particular, you just pointed the finger at the other guy, told us they were bad, and that you werent like them. Thats not enough. Take a risk, be bold. Get behind Elizabeth Warrens 0.75 percent interest rate for student loans. Allow student debt to be abolished with bankruptcy. Push for single-payer healthcare, or at the very least a public health insurance option. Need some catchy buzzwords? Try affordable education, good jobs, and healthy families.
Last edited by Eric the Green; 11-10-2014 at 09:21 PM.
Clinton is a no go because there's no way the Millennials will let her out of the primary.
Huckabee is a no go because he only appeals to the religious right which is a dwindling representation of the Republican core.
Both sides must deal with the fact that the Boomer vote, which is what they both carved up before, it's dying out much faster than expected. It's 15% down already, and rapidly decreasing. By 2016 It will probably be down to 18%. It's probably not enough to cause a realignment of coalitions, but expect more shenanigans similar to 2008, with two unexpected candidates with a lot more media drama than actual meaning.
Huckabee has no chance and he won't even try.
God, the amount of sniveling and hand-wringing coming from the "bloomers" on this message board post-midterms is absolutely hysterical. Totally worth dropping back in for.
Millennials will have no say because they won't vote. They'll just say, "Democrats have put up no-one I want, so I'm staying home."
Boomers are the only ones who vote, so we'll decide things. You won't.Huckabee is a no go because he only appeals to the religious right which is a dwindling representation of the Republican core.
Both sides must deal with the fact that the Boomer vote, which is what they both carved up before, it's dying out much faster than expected. It's 15% down already, and rapidly decreasing. By 2016 It will probably be down to 18%. It's probably not enough to cause a realignment of coalitions, but expect more shenanigans similar to 2008, with two unexpected candidates with a lot more media drama than actual meaning.
Kind of matches the slacker Millennials who were so sore and hopeless that they didn't even vote.
Just wait for the 1T. It's going to be a 20 year long comedy show.
Can't speak for the rest of my generation, but I've got mine. In the absence of something truly compelling, that'll do for now.
So, I'm back at Columbia for the last year of my undergrad, and would you believe that they've bumped the BAH for NYC up to $3750 a month!?!
Very few things can bring out the 5-year-old in today's elderly like an election.
I sure hope so. Clinton is a crooked as a dog's hind leg. Please choose someone with some ethics.
True that as well. The lights are on, but nobody's home on that one.Huckabee is a no go because he only appeals to the religious right which is a dwindling representation of the Republican core.
I think the trick is to somehow align the 2 largest cohort sets. [Core Millies and Jonesers]. I don't think appealing to Millies is that difficult. The problem lies in the herding cats stuff with Jonesers.Both sides must deal with the fact that the Boomer vote, which is what they both carved up before, it's dying out much faster than expected. It's 15% down already, and rapidly decreasing. By 2016 It will probably be down to 18%. It's probably not enough to cause a realignment of coalitions, but expect more shenanigans similar to 2008, with two unexpected candidates with a lot more media drama than actual meaning.
MBTI step II type : Expressive INTP
There's an annual contest at Bond University, Australia, calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term:
The winning student wrote:
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."
For me personally it was the lack of a stance on net neutrality (and look at how quick it took fire them to jump on that after the fact, if they keep it up, they might get my vote back); it was the response to ISIS because I'm tired of us acting like the great Western Savior, bringing democracy to the "savages" one bomb at a time. You've also got Yellen as the Fed Chair, who is another day late and dollar short player who has more our less stayed Bernanke's plotted course perhaps minus a month or so. Our response to the NSA spy programs are unacceptable, along with our treatment of Edward Snowden. Selling armor to cops at low, low prices has created civil rights issues which and or response has been less than adequate (which is an understatement). Affordable healthcare is inadequate.
Basically, why'd I vote for these failures in the first place? My vote has value, and I'm not going to waste it on failure.
That's good to hear. I applaud the fact that you realize those 2 terms are getting rather dated. I'd love to know what those who still use those terms would call one of my 2nd cousins.I absolutely agree with your last point; I don't use the terms anymore. It is not PC
Tribes = [Nordic of the far north of Germany sort, Celtic, Cherokee, Mexican] Come next census, he's gonna have a migraine.
I prefer to call it a case of Boomers jumping the shark, sorry.But it's not so bad if people are required to refer to people in respectful ways. Sure, I don't agree with censorship and penalties for saying stuff. But it isn't as if speech codes are a major problem. It may be over-zealous attempts to get people to be polite and respectful. Not that big a deal.
They do? If so, that boat never arrived here in Oklahoma. Don't get me wrong, I'd vote for Warren in a heartbeat given her well known take on banksters. I'm a registered D and no literature in the mail or anything. Hell, I even vote often!Democrats bring up that issue all the time. Ask Elizabeth Warren. Young voters ought to know what Democrats' stand on this is. If they don't, and therefore don't vote, that's their entire fucking problem, and they will pay the price for their own fucking lack of civic responsibility.
Here's the damn problem once again as to whats driving college tuition sky high.
http://www.popecenter.org/commentari...e.html?id=2408
http://mfeldstein.com/the-rising-non...-of-minnesota/
A chart from my Alma Mater
http://www.irs.ttu.edu/Tuition/TUITFEE6.HTM
So, how fucking hard is it to use this data and get the point across?
Note the 1985-1986 break point. That was when most Jonesers were graduated off.
There's another one at 2002-2003.
[quote]
Millennials voted for the status quo Tuesday. What is the status quo? Gross inequality and economic decline for everyone but the 1%. Student loan bondage. Tax breaks for billionaires. Outsourcing, automation and massive unemployment. Gross inequality of salaries, and slave wages. Discrimination against poorer ethnic groups and women. No economic stimulus and no infrastructure work. Firing teachers and fire-fighters. Pollution, droughts, floods, hurricanes, species die-offs, earthquakes, dead oceans. The list goes on. That's what Millennials voted for, and that's what they'll get, for the remainder of their young years at least.
We Jonesers aren't complaining. We're gonna smack down this stupid weed war if it's the last thing we do.So stop complaining about Boomers. Gen Xers and Millennials, you have now made your bed. You might as well stay asleep while you lie in it.
http://stupiddope.com/2014/03/20/joh...n-floridanews/
Of course, I love to bring all these wars of choice to a grinding halt as well.
MBTI step II type : Expressive INTP
There's an annual contest at Bond University, Australia, calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term:
The winning student wrote:
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."
I think the biggest issue that Jonesers and Millennials would face is in foreign policy, because a lot of the Jonesers seem more emotional and aggressive. I think it might be the steady diet of TV news. However, the Jones cusp does hold some of my favorite punk rock, hip-hop, and metal icons politically. I mean you've got Rollins, Mackaye, Chuck D, Scott Ian? That's just scratching the surface. I could potentially deal with the right mix. Obama is Jones cusp, I just wish he was a more of a dominate player... So maybe a little more aggression isn't off the table, it just needs to be directed in the right direction and tempered with a strong sense of prioritization.
I don't think a mass culture has completely disintegrated, although it seems like it's heading in that direction. There are still blockbuster movies that everyone sees, and events that everyone talks about. There seems to be a very thin cohesion with regards to some things that's still in place. It doesn't seem like the country is any more disintegrated than it has been for the past twenty five or so years though.
In 2010 and 2014 the money acted, and it decided that government in America would represent wealth and privilege and make all else suffer.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."
― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters
So go ahead, Republicans -- extol the dubious virtues of ravaging the environment, pushing superstition as education, banning contraception, outlawing labor unions, exempting the rich from taxation while imposing brutal taxes on the non-rich, sending children back to the mines and factories, and denying the vote to the non-rich. Go ahead, and show your hidden fascist streak. The the next time we Americans won't be so foolish. 24 Reactionary seats in the Senate will be up for grabs and only ten Democratic seats will be up.
As for Americans for Prosperity and other GOP fronts -- to Hell with your Orwellian Newspeak!
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."
― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters
Is his defense of net neutrality today a good start?
But don't expect much of him. You guys have to be aware of how our democracy works. He has no congress to work with. Don't expect him to have a magic wand.
