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Thread: The 2016 Election will be awful. - Page 17







Post#401 at 01-02-2015 11:30 PM by XYMOX_4AD_84 [at joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,073]
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Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62 View Post
Ughh.

A Shillery vs. Shrub rematch.


I will not, ever, every vote for Shillery

http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=68158
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/11/...ary-bandwagon/

Feh, what a DINO.

And Shrub [ Jeb Shrub Bush. Nope, not this either.] I will not , ever, ever, vote for this piece of work either.

Mr. Yuk fits in quite nicely.



http://jacksonville.com/business/201...oard-directors

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2014-...corp-dot-board

So, what to do with this clusterfuck? I mean really, 2 corporate America shills to choose from. Fuck 'em both to hell.

1. I'll do a write in for Bernie Sanders on the final ballot.
2. If Shillery looks like the likely winner, I'll vote straight R and hope she gets a congress full of Republicans. If Shrub looks like the winner, vote straight D.




I'll take 4 years of gridlock over these 2 clowns anyday. It's like choosing to drink cyanide or ricin.
Gotta stop at least one of them from making it to their respective convention. Hopefully stop both. It is time for grass roots.







Post#402 at 01-02-2015 11:33 PM by Hutch74 [at Wisconsin joined Mar 2010 #posts 1,008]
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Quote Originally Posted by XYMOX_4AD_84 View Post
Gotta stop at least one of them from making it to their respective convention. Hopefully stop both. It is time for grass roots.
I wrote in Oscar Mayer for Congress this past November. Like most politicians, he's well versed in bologna. Oscar Mayer may well earn my vote for 2016 for President if it comes to Clinton Vs Bush.







Post#403 at 01-03-2015 01:53 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Hutch74 View Post
I wrote in Oscar Mayer for Congress this past November. Like most politicians, he's well versed in bologna. Oscar Mayer may well earn my vote for 2016 for President if it comes to Clinton Vs Bush.
That might be like Ham vs. Spam.

Since we had a good candidate for mayor in San Jose, I did not have to vote Mayer for Mayor.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#404 at 01-03-2015 01:55 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62 View Post
Ughh.

A Shillery vs. Shrub rematch.


I will not, ever, ever vote for Shillery

http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=68158
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/11/...ary-bandwagon/

Feh, what a DINO.

And Shrub [ Jeb Shrub Bush. Nope, not this either.] I will not , ever, ever, vote for this piece of work either.

Mr. Yuk fits in quite nicely.



http://jacksonville.com/business/201...oard-directors

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2014-...corp-dot-board

So, what to do with this clusterfuck? I mean really, 2 corporate America shills to choose from. Fuck 'em both to hell.

1. I'll do a write in for Bernie Sanders on the final ballot.
2. If Shillery looks like the likely winner, I'll vote straight R and hope she gets a congress full of Republicans. If Shrub looks like the winner, vote straight D.




I'll take 4 years of gridlock over these 2 clowns anyday. It's like choosing to drink cyanide or ricin.
The worst thing anyone can ever do in their lifetime, this time around, is vote for a Republican.

Gotta stop at least one of them from making it to their respective convention. Hopefully stop both. It is time for grass roots.
There isn't enough grass right now.

If the people didn't want these two clowns, they wouldn't be where they are. Instead of growling at them, it's best to look in the collective mirror and growl at ourselves.

But as I said, I would support Warren or Sanders, if I were able to.
Last edited by Eric the Green; 01-03-2015 at 01:58 AM.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#405 at 01-03-2015 02:30 AM by Ragnarök_62 [at Oklahoma joined Nov 2006 #posts 5,511]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
The worst thing anyone can ever do in their lifetime, this time around, is vote for a Republican.
No. Actually, the worst thing anyone can do is vote for a clown backed by
a. Walmart/MIC [Shillery]
b. Assorted corporate odds and ends [Shrub]
There's absolutely no difference. They're both whores to corporate America.

I do not use labels to interfere with the facts. Just because someone has a "D" does not mean they have my interests in mind. Shillery will speak sweat nothings just to get elected and then pawn off anything she can to her masters.

There isn't enough grass right now.
There might be enough dynamite to derail these 2 trains to disaster though. FOIA baby.

If the people didn't want these two clowns, they wouldn't be where they are. Instead of growling at them, it's best to look in the collective mirror and growl at ourselves.
Not quite. Folks need to remember we fought a war, say about 1776 about ridding ourselves of dynasties. If we're dumb enough enough to do this, then I heard Panama might be a nice relocation country. Yeah, it means chucking my US citizenship in the trash, but after all, Einstein chucked his German citizenship when Germany went apeshit. I do believe such an event would lead to *Götterdämmerung for the US.

But as I said, I would support Warren or Sanders, if I were able to.
Yes, either of them are perfectly acceptable.

*The English/Nordic translation = Ragnarök
Last edited by Ragnarök_62; 01-03-2015 at 02:33 AM.
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There's an annual contest at Bond University, Australia, calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term:
The winning student wrote:

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."







Post#406 at 01-03-2015 10:18 AM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62 View Post
Ughh.

A Shillery vs. Shrub rematch.


I will not, ever, every vote for Shillery

http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=68158
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/11/...ary-bandwagon/

Feh, what a DINO.

And Shrub [ Jeb Shrub Bush. Nope, not this either.] I will not , ever, ever, vote for this piece of work either.

Mr. Yuk fits in quite nicely.



http://jacksonville.com/business/201...oard-directors

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2014-...corp-dot-board

So, what to do with this clusterfuck? I mean really, 2 corporate America shills to choose from. Fuck 'em both to hell.

1. I'll do a write in for Bernie Sanders on the final ballot.
2. If Shillery looks like the likely winner, I'll vote straight R and hope she gets a congress full of Republicans. If Shrub looks like the winner, vote straight D.




I'll take 4 years of gridlock over these 2 clowns anyday. It's like choosing to drink cyanide or ricin.
We will soon see how badly the Reactionary Party treats working people. Livestock if they accept the chains that the elites 'give' them, and vermin if they resist? Maybe that's excessive. The Republican party does majority-of-a-majority politics very well -- far better than the Democrats, whose hearts aren't into it. Majority-of-the-majority politics well serves authoritarian leaders, whether Karl Rove... or Vladimir Lenin or Benito Mussolini.

We are going to be in for pure acrimony between the Legislative Branch and the Presidency... and if you thought the Tea Party was nasty, then wait until you see the full-blown plutocracy that the Koch dynasty-in-all-but-name has intended for us. For anyone not in the elite, living well will be precarious unless one is an accomplice or emigrates. American citizenship for anyone not in the elite might go from being something precious to something worthless (like Soviet citizenship was for anyone who disliked its conception of democracy).

Today I would rather be a German than a German-American. This time in 2017 ask me whether I have changed my mind.

The legislative branch matters greatly. ALEC wants to turn the norms of the American economy back to what they were in the 1890s, when the industrial worker typically had a 40-year lifespan and a 70-hour workweek -- and started doing industrial labor at age 8 or so. If we ever get that, then most of us may have to choose between two ideologies that heavily use the color red: the current GOP and Marxism-Leninism. Now that is choosing between drinking cyanide and breathing in fumes of tetraethyl lead. The only problem is that I can no longer choose which vile chemical is the more fitting analogue to either vile cause. Cyanide kills; lead degrades one slowly, gutting one's humanity.

The Republican Party will soon show us the keys to the American nightmare -- and, in view of the economic and military power of the United States, a world nightmare.

Oh, by the way -- Net Neutrality must prevail, lest the only 'information' that we could get on the Net is either right-wing propaganda or the huckstering of merchandise unless we pay a huge price.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#407 at 01-03-2015 05:30 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62 View Post
No. Actually, the worst thing anyone can do is vote for a clown backed by
a. Walmart/MIC [Shillery]
b. Assorted corporate odds and ends [Shrub]
There's absolutely no difference. They're both whores to corporate America.
I was thinking about that today. You say Hillary is a corporate whore. Now, she is far from ideal, but what makes her a corporate whore, exactly? Could it be:

1. You don't like her.
2. She has stock/Wall St. investments
3. She voted for the Iraq War
4. She said corporations "deserve a place at the table."
5. She is a "New Democrat" like her husband.
6. She supported a health care reform law that wasn't single-payer.
7. She accepts corporate money to run a campaign.
8. Or, what else, exactly?

Let's look at these one at a time.

1. You have a right not to like her. But it is not a persuasive reason for anyone else not to vote for her. Dubya was a nice guy; probably nicer than Gore or Kerry too, or Ralph Nader, or David Cobb (although I got to interview David Cobb, and he was probably nicer). That did not make Bush deserving of my vote.

2. You are frequently asking me to give you my advice on what to invest in and when, according to the stars. If I remember correctly, that includes stocks. I don't think you really believe that having stock market investments is such a bad thing.

3. She admitted it was a mistake, iirc. She was also Secretary of State, and was not particularly belligerent in that post. So, she is a diplomat. Her policies would be slightly more hawkish than Obama, but not much. The war cycle is real. People do not want to go to war too soon after having been. Jupiter times the cycle. It is not due again until 2025. We are not going to war if Hillary is president; guaranteed.

4. I agree with her; corporations may not be people, but they are full of people. Just because they deserve a voice, does not mean they should be deferred to if their policies are wrong, or that a politician should be bought by them.

5. This may be true, but she would have her own policies, and the needs of the time demand a shift away from trickle-down, free market economics of the kind that gave us the likes of David Rubin.

6. So, she decided to go for the possible instead of the impossible, given the American electorate. She influenced Obamacare in a crucial way.The mandate was her idea; Obama adopted it. Without it, health care reform is useless.

7. Unilateral disarmament does not get you elected. Democrats propose to reform the system, and act on it. Republicans undo any reform that is passed.

8. Well?

I do not use labels to interfere with the facts. Just because someone has a "D" does not mean they have my interests in mind. Shillery will speak sweat nothings just to get elected and then pawn off anything she can to her masters.
Republican is not a label; it is an ideology and a set of platform policies that are uniformly wrong, and to which Republican politicians adhere almost totally.

There might be enough dynamite to derail these 2 trains to disaster though. FOIA baby.
It would be quite an upset, but other candidates could be nominated. Bush is the most likely Republican nominee by far, according to my cosmic prognosis. Hillary is more likely than Bush to lose in the primaries, perhaps to Warren if she runs. Bernie has an excellent cosmic score, but the socialist label hurts him badly. But could Warren or Bernie Sanders beat Bush? Especially if they take no corporate money? Republicans are unacceptable; PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION. Anyone but any Republican.

Not quite. Folks need to remember we fought a war, say about 1776 about ridding ourselves of dynasties. If we're dumb enough enough to do this, then I heard Panama might be a nice relocation country. Yeah, it means chucking my US citizenship in the trash, but after all, Einstein chucked his German citizenship when Germany went apeshit. I do believe such an event would lead to *Götterdämmerung for the US.
My comment still applies. Our politicians are not solely to blame for the failures of our politics. The voters and non-voters bear most of the blame.
Last edited by Eric the Green; 01-03-2015 at 06:13 PM.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#408 at 01-03-2015 07:22 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Some good statistical news for Democrats: Despite the incoming Senate majority for the Republican Party, the 44 Democratic and two independent Senators have been elected by more votes than the 56 Reactionary Senators.

On Tuesday, 33 US senators elected in November will be sworn in by Vice President Joe Biden — including 12 who are new to the chamber. The class includes 22 Republicans and 11 Democrats, a big reason why the GOP has a 54-46 majority in the Senate overall.

But here's a crazy fact: those 46 Democrats got more votes than the 54 Republicans across the 2010, 2012, and 2014 elections. According to Nathan Nicholson, a researcher at the voting reform advocacy group FairVote, "the 46 Democratic caucus members in the 114th Congress received a total of 67.8 million votes in winning their seats, while the 54 Republican caucus members received 47.1 million votes."

Here's what that looks like in chart form:



Nathan Nicholson / FairVote)

This doesn't mean that the Republican majority is illegitimate or anything like that. Indeed, after 2008 and 2012, the tables were turned: Democrats had more Senate seats than their vote share suggested they should. The problem isn't that the deck is stacked in favor of Republicans. The problem is that the deck is stacked in favor of small states, which receive equal representation in the Senate despite dramatic variance in population. The Senate is a profoundly anti-democratic body and should be abolished.
http://www.vox.com/2015/1/3/7482635/...tes/in/5654656

Comment:

If I had my way, then Minnesota, Wyoming, and the two Dakotas would be combined as one state. Unwieldy California and Texas would be split. But that is not going to happen. Abolishing the US Senate is not going to happen. So much for the pipe dream.

Citizens United notwithstanding, the electorate of 2010 or 2014 will not be repeated in 2016. Should the electorate of 2016 resemble that of 2012 or 2008, then the Republican Party will be in deep trouble. Some of the winners of 2010 who got in with weak margins will go down. But this is my prediction: the Republican Party will do everything possible to prevent any Democratic gains in both Houses of Congress. It will try to change state election laws to the detriment of Democrats even to the extent of attaching requirements of long residency or property ownership as means of disenfranchising likely Democratic voters.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#409 at 01-03-2015 09:01 PM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,595]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
..., the electorate of 2010 or 2014 will not be repeated in 2016. Should the electorate of 2016 resemble that of 2012 or 2008, then the Republican Party will be in deep trouble. Some of the winners of 2010 who got in with weak margins will go down. But this is my prediction: the Republican Party will do everything possible to prevent any Democratic gains in both Houses of Congress. It will try to change state election laws to the detriment of Democrats even to the extent of attaching requirements of long residency or property ownership as means of disenfranchising likely Democratic voters.
The emerging demographics will either cause the Republican Party to change or go out of business.

Is there any evidence for your statement:
It will try to change state election laws to the detriment of Democrats even to the extent of attaching requirements of long residency or property ownership as means of disenfranchising likely Democratic voters.
?







Post#410 at 01-03-2015 09:39 PM by Ragnarök_62 [at Oklahoma joined Nov 2006 #posts 5,511]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
I was thinking about that today. You say Hillary is a corporate whore. Now, she is far from ideal, but what makes her a corporate whore, exactly? Could it be:

1. You don't like her.
2. She has stock/Wall St. investments
3. She voted for the Iraq War
4. She said corporations "deserve a place at the table."
5. She is a "New Democrat" like her husband.
6. She supported a health care reform law that wasn't single-payer.
7. She accepts corporate money to run a campaign.
8. Or, what else, exactly?

Let's look at these one at a time.
Forget it. You should have found a nice web site.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Hi...eland_Security

The above works. I changed my mind. She's just something not tasty like dog food. Shrub is of course still cyanide.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Jeb_Bush.htm


Now, this is weird.

Scores & Analysis
Candidate
More Information
Click on 'Social' and 'Economic' for analysis of
your answers compared to each candidate's answers.
Click on 'Answers' and 'Stances' for complete details
of the sources of each candidate's answers.
Total 53%


Social 70%


Green Party
Green Party Platform
Green Party's answers
Green Party's stances
Biographical Profile
Total 45%


Social 55%


Libertarian Party
Libertarian Party Platform
Libertarian Party's answers
Libertarian Party's stances
Biographical Profile
Total 35%


Social 50%


Natural Law party Natural Law Party
Natural Law Party Platform
Natural Law Party's answers
Natural Law Party's stances
Biographical Profile
Total 33%


Social 45%


Democratic party symbol Democratic Party
Democratic Party Platform
Democratic Party's answers
Democratic Party's stances
Biographical Profile
Total 23%


Social 10%


Reform party Reform Party
Reform Party Platform
Reform Party's answers
Reform Party's stances
Biographical Profile
Total 20%


Social 5%


Tea party symbol Tea Party
Tea Party publications
Tea Party's answers
Tea Party's stances
Biographical Profile
Total 15%


Social 0%


Republican symbol here Republican Party
GOP Party Platform
Republican Party's answers
Republican Party's stances
Biographical Profile
Click on 'Social' and 'Economic' for analysis of
your answers compared to each candidate's answers.
Click on 'Answers' and 'Stances' for complete details
of the sources of each candidate's answers.


I never expected that I was a greenie.
MBTI step II type : Expressive INTP

There's an annual contest at Bond University, Australia, calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term:
The winning student wrote:

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."







Post#411 at 01-03-2015 11:16 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by radind View Post
The emerging demographics will either cause the Republican Party to change or go out of business.
I so thought in 2006 and 2008. I saw the Republican Party losing its grasp on the American middle class especially as it became less white, rural, Christian, Anglo, and straight even as it was gaining the support of white working-class voters heavily concentrated in the South. I saw younger voters rejecting the GOP and likely setting habits that would continue into the near future. Short of a religious revival that could turn Americans by the millions toward Protestant fundamentalism I could see no imaginable expansion of the Dubya-era Republican Party. The connection between economic success and voting Republican that was common knowledge for over a century had largely disappeared; indeed, one of the most reliable connections between economic status and voting (education) worked against Republicans.

Reagan-era Republicans had largely relied upon the white, Christian, suburban middle class for the bulk of its votes, but that demographic had begun to recognize minorities similar in economic results as partners or peers and not as economic foes. To be sure, the white, Christian, Anglo, straight middle class still leans Republican -- but the middle class is less clearly white, Christian, Anglo, and straight.

The Hard Right got organized, and it began a course of resistance to the trend. Such would appear with the TEA Party movement and it would appeal to the most resentful people in America -- white blue-collar workers who have seen members of non-white, non-Christian, non-Anglo, and non-straight groups leave them far behind in the economic race. Typically undereducated, they are more likely to be fundamentalist Protestants. They are more likely to be rural and isolated. To be sure, much of the resentment was directed at a President is non-white, is well-educated and apparently proud of it, shows no affinities to lower-class white culture, doesn't wear religion on his sleeve, and reeks of (to use a term associated with a Stalin) a "rootless cosmopolitan". The TEA Party, basically a front for the Republican Party, appealed to people with strong ties to place and faith who saw 'their' country slipping away from them.

A liberal like me might say: Tough luck. If you can't beat us, join us or at least let your children do so. Put more commitment into formal schooling and the development of skills. Tough as economic conditions are, there are sure ways to lose -- one of which is to treat the middle class as the Enemy.

Is there any evidence for your statement: ?
The history of other authoritarian organizations even if most began, unlike the GOP, as authoritarian organizations. I see the Republican party imitating the ideology of fascism and some of the techniques of the Commies. Front groups like Club for Growth, Americans for Prosperity, and American Crossroads push an extreme right-wing agenda, at least on economics. The shadowy group created by the Koch family, the American Legislative Exchange Council, which exists to guide right-wing state legislators to push and entrench policies that the Koch family supports. The agenda includes the evisceration of labor unions, the loosening of environmental laws, making voting more difficult (especially for likely Democratic voters), promotion of 'gun rights', shifting of taxes away from the rich to the non-rich, and general 'privatization'. It intends to take over America through state legislatures until America becomes an absolute plutocracy. To be sure it has stayed clear of such 'social issues' as the content of education, race relations, gay rights, and contraception so that it can avoid alarming people. The slow takeover of America has begun, and it is a race between democracy and a new plutocratic oligarchy to establish what prevails. I live in Michigan, and I well know what the Michigan Snake Legislature does.

Read it and weep if you are a liberal.

Behavior in the recent past, especially in October and early November, causes me to see an effort by right-wing front groups to allow the appearance of a fair and even contest until groups like Americans for Prosperity flood the media with Orwellian propaganda against anyone to the left of the John Birch Society. When elections are no longer contests, democracy is no more. Iraq under Saddam Hussein had elections. That the Republican leadership in the House sees nothing wrong with Steve Scalise, who has made a speech at an organization associated with the monstrous David Duke to be Majority Whip of the House of Representatives, indicates that those who 'vote wrong' no longer matter to the Republican party.

We can all watch the political events of 2015 and 2016 unfold. We may see some clear signs of extreme authoritarianism among elected Republicans. I expect lockstep voting as directed by the Koch family. We may see some outrageous legislation; I will not predict specifics; I simply suggest that we will see it pass along partisan lines only to receive the veto of the President.

In 2017 America will still be a republic -- but if the Koch family gets its way, America will be a Republic in Name Only, with the Koch-stooge President as for all practical purposes a regent of a dynasty. The drama has yet to play out. By 2018 when people hear the name "Alec" they will not be thinking of the great British actor Alec Guinness.

Just wait. I just don't trust people who act as if no human suffering is in excess so long as it turns a profit. Basically, most of the South has been taken over by successors of the White Citizens Councils.
Last edited by pbrower2a; 01-03-2015 at 11:28 PM.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#412 at 01-04-2015 03:20 AM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
If I had my way, then Minnesota, Wyoming, and the two Dakotas would be combined as one state.
Only if you want to piss off all the Progressives here in Minnesota.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#413 at 01-04-2015 03:45 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62 View Post
Forget it. You should have found a nice web site.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Hi...eland_Security

The above works. I changed my mind. She's just something not tasty like dog food. Shrub is of course still cyanide.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Jeb_Bush.htm
That sounds like a more realistic assessment; good. That's a lot to look at. Mostly confirms my impression.

I never expected that I was a greenie.
Well, not as greenie as me though. My percentage of agreement with the greenies would be at least 90%.
(well, that's what it used to be; now only 88%)


Scores & Analysis
Candidate
http://www.ontheissues.org/Quiz/Quiz2014.asp

Total 88%
Social 85%
Economic 90%
Green Party

Total 63%
Social 55%
Economic 70%
Democratic Party

Total 50%
Social 60%
Economic 40%
Natural Law Party

Total 35%
Social 65%
Economic 5%
Libertarian Party

Total 20%
Social 20%
Economic 20%
Reform Party

Total 10%
Social 5%
Economic 15%
Tea Party

Total 0%
Social 0%
Economic 0%
Republican Party
Last edited by Eric the Green; 01-04-2015 at 03:54 AM.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#414 at 01-04-2015 03:47 AM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
Only if you want to piss off all the Progressives here in Minnesota.
Whoops! I meant Montana! Big mistake of American history -- so many states in 1890.
Last edited by pbrower2a; 01-04-2015 at 03:52 AM.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#415 at 01-04-2015 04:03 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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01-04-2015, 04:03 AM #415
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Wow, interesting match up with candidates on this little quiz. Not definitive, of course, but Hillary does almost as well as Bernie on my quiz results! And better on economics?? (Bolton?? You gotta be kidding; who put him in this??)

http://www.ontheissues.org/Quiz/results2014.asp
More Information

Total 75%
Social 70%
Economic 80%
Bernie Sanders

Total 73%
Social 55%
Economic 90%
Hillary Clinton

Total 70%
Social 60%
Economic 80%
Joe Biden

Total 60%
Social 60%
Economic 60%
Barack Obama

Total 45%
Social 60%
Economic 30%
Scott Keller

Total 40%
Social 40%
Economic 40%
Brian Schweitzer

Total 30%
Social 20%
Economic 40%
Chris Christie

Total 18%
Social 15%
Economic 20%
Ben Carson

Total 18%
Social 35%
Economic 0%
Rand Paul

Total 13%
Social 15%
Economic 10%
Jeb Bush

Total 10%
Social 5%
Economic 15%
Peter King

Total 8%
Social 10%
Economic 5%
Rob Portman

Total 8%
Social 5%
Economic 10%
Marco Rubio

Total 5%
Social 10%
Economic 0%
John Bolton

Total 3%
Social 0%
Economic 5%
Ted Cruz
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#416 at 01-04-2015 06:08 AM by Ragnarök_62 [at Oklahoma joined Nov 2006 #posts 5,511]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
That sounds like a more realistic assessment; good. That's a lot to look at. Mostly confirms my impression.
Yeah, I'm glad I found it. I'll see how Oklahoma's politicians stand of stuff.


Well, not as greenie as me though. My percentage of agreement with the greenies would be at least 90%.
(well, that's what it used to be; now only 88%)
Probably so. I don't care for affirmative action and the no nukes thing. The "right to clean air/water" is a winner. Folks have no right to pollute my body with assorted emissions. Keeping religion out of the public sphere is also a winner.The negative income tax is an excellent idea. Now, if they'd support decrufting stuff that the Federal government should not be doing, that would be real good.

Abolish the Department of Education. Local school boards and teachers know a lot more on what is needed. Teachers are educated on how to convey knowledge, not fill out bureaucratic paperwork to send to Washington.

Abolish Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac/VA housing stuff. These enable sprawl and are earmarks for the housing industry

I wonder why they haven't mentioned closing down useless military bases along with their position on useless military hardware.
MBTI step II type : Expressive INTP

There's an annual contest at Bond University, Australia, calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term:
The winning student wrote:

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."







Post#417 at 01-04-2015 09:40 AM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,595]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
...The history of other authoritarian organizations even if most began, unlike the GOP, as authoritarian organizations. I see the Republican party imitating the ideology of fascism and some of the techniques of the Commies. Front groups like Club for Growth, Americans for Prosperity, and American Crossroads push an extreme right-wing agenda, at least on economics. The shadowy group created by the Koch family, the American Legislative Exchange Council, which exists to guide right-wing state legislators to push and entrench policies that the Koch family supports. The agenda includes the evisceration of labor unions, the loosening of environmental laws, making voting more difficult (especially for likely Democratic voters), promotion of 'gun rights', shifting of taxes away from the rich to the non-rich, and general 'privatization'. It intends to take over America through state legislatures until America becomes an absolute plutocracy. To be sure it has stayed clear of such 'social issues' as the content of education, race relations, gay rights, and contraception so that it can avoid alarming people. The slow takeover of America has begun, and it is a race between democracy and a new plutocratic oligarchy to establish what prevails. I live in Michigan, and I well know what the Michigan Snake Legislature does.

Read it and weep if you are a liberal.

Behavior in the recent past, especially in October and early November, causes me to see an effort by right-wing front groups to allow the appearance of a fair and even contest until groups like Americans for Prosperity flood the media with Orwellian propaganda against anyone to the left of the John Birch Society. When elections are no longer contests, democracy is no more. Iraq under Saddam Hussein had elections. That the Republican leadership in the House sees nothing wrong with Steve Scalise, who has made a speech at an organization associated with the monstrous David Duke to be Majority Whip of the House of Representatives, indicates that those who 'vote wrong' no longer matter to the Republican party.

We can all watch the political events of 2015 and 2016 unfold. We may see some clear signs of extreme authoritarianism among elected Republicans. I expect lockstep voting as directed by the Koch family. We may see some outrageous legislation; I will not predict specifics; I simply suggest that we will see it pass along partisan lines only to receive the veto of the President.

In 2017 America will still be a republic -- but if the Koch family gets its way, America will be a Republic in Name Only, with the Koch-stooge President as for all practical purposes a regent of a dynasty. The drama has yet to play out. By 2018 when people hear the name "Alec" they will not be thinking of the great British actor Alec Guinness.

Just wait. I just don't trust people who act as if no human suffering is in excess so long as it turns a profit. Basically, most of the South has been taken over by successors of the White Citizens Councils.
I don't trust the super rich of any stripe. I see the john Birch decendents as strident fringe groups with little influence and I see your linkage of Republicans with fascism as overblown and unwarranted.
Also, I do not agree with your claim that "most of the South has been taken over by successors of the White Citizens Councils".
It will be interesting to compare notes on the events that actually unfold in the next several years.
May the Republic endure.







Post#418 at 01-04-2015 09:54 AM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by Copperfield View Post
... Mega-corps are not centrally planned. They operate more like an organism; they are born, grow bigger, grow up, grow old and die. The nervous system is barely aware of any of this or even why it is happening.

It's actually quite remarkable to watch it operate in this manner.
No, the central planning is there, but it doesn't filter down in the organization very far before it's watered down, altered and misapplied. If the plans were actually implemented as delineated, few companies would survive.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#419 at 01-04-2015 10:16 AM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,595]
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I forgot to mention that I watched several episodes of " Nazis: Evolution of Evil" on AHC last night. This is a sobering reminder of the true evil of Hitler and the need to be watchful so that we do not ever go down this evil path. Extreme authoritarianism from any group must be resisted.







Post#420 at 01-04-2015 03:36 PM by Hutch74 [at Wisconsin joined Mar 2010 #posts 1,008]
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I'm not sure how this is relevant any more than the GOP map that shows 80% (or whatever high figure it is) of Americas land represented by Republicans. One Republican represents the entire states of Wyoming and thats a large area.

2 Democratic Senators represent the most populous state-California (you also have New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois) so of course total vote for the Dems might be higher. I guess both parties have to trot out something that makes them feel good.

Personally, I like the system as it is. Constitutional Republic, checks and balances, give the states (even the smaller ones) a bit of say. Tyranny of the minority by the majority should also include California not being able to throw its weight around to say Rhode Island. It's worked generally for over 200 years.

Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
Some good statistical news for Democrats: Despite the incoming Senate majority for the Republican Party, the 44 Democratic and two independent Senators have been elected by more votes than the 56 Reactionary Senators.



http://www.vox.com/2015/1/3/7482635/...tes/in/5654656

Comment:

If I had my way, then Minnesota, Wyoming, and the two Dakotas would be combined as one state. Unwieldy California and Texas would be split. But that is not going to happen. Abolishing the US Senate is not going to happen. So much for the pipe dream.

Citizens United notwithstanding, the electorate of 2010 or 2014 will not be repeated in 2016. Should the electorate of 2016 resemble that of 2012 or 2008, then the Republican Party will be in deep trouble. Some of the winners of 2010 who got in with weak margins will go down. But this is my prediction: the Republican Party will do everything possible to prevent any Democratic gains in both Houses of Congress. It will try to change state election laws to the detriment of Democrats even to the extent of attaching requirements of long residency or property ownership as means of disenfranchising likely Democratic voters.







Post#421 at 01-04-2015 03:40 PM by Hutch74 [at Wisconsin joined Mar 2010 #posts 1,008]
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Hmm. Mixed equally between Green and Libertarian:

Total 40%
Social 55%
Green Party
Green Party Platform
Green Party's answers
Green Party's stances
Biographical Profile
Total 38%
Social 35%
Libertarian Party
Libertarian Party Platform
Libertarian Party's answers
Libertarian Party's stances
Biographical Profile
Total 35%
Social 40%
Natural Law Party
Natural Law Party Platform
Natural Law Party's answers
Natural Law Party's stances
Biographical Profile
Total 35%
Social 20%
Republican Party
GOP Party Platform
Republican Party's answers
Republican Party's stances
Biographical Profile
Total 30%
Social 10%
Reform Party
Reform Party Platform
Reform Party's answers
Reform Party's stances
Biographical Profile
Total 30%
Social 30%
Democratic Party
Democratic Party Platform
Democratic Party's answers
Democratic Party's stances
Biographical Profile
Total 20%
Social 10%
Tea Party
Tea Party publications
Tea Party's answers
Tea Party's stances
Biographical Profile







Post#422 at 01-04-2015 06:36 PM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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I sort of skimmed through this thread, so if someone has already mentioned this -- I don't think so -- please forgive me.

The result of the 2014 election as far as Congress is concerned was a foregone conclusion and, on a practical level, not very important, since even with a miracle the Democrats weren't going to take a big enough majority in both houses to actually do anything. Had they done better, we would have had two years of gridlock and a government that can't do anything. As it is, we're going to have -- two years of gridlock and a government that can't do anything. Which is more or less what the Republican Party wanted, so they were going to win whether they won or lost the election itself. Perhaps this helps explain why Millennials such as Kepi didn't bother to vote.

On the other hand, if you look at the statewide initiatives and referendums that passed last year, a marked contrast to the Congressional election outcome presents. Every state with a minimum wage increase on the ballot passed it, including those that sent Republicans to the House and Senate. Every "personhood" anti-abortion measure failed. Two states legalized marijuana. The number of states allowing same-sex marriage continues to increase, and the courts have struck down every attempt to block it at the federal level. So we see voters quite willing to endorse progressive measures, when those measures are offered.

What I'm seeing here is that in this phase of the Crisis, the federal government has become largely irrelevant. That's a marked contrast to the last two Crises, for an interesting reason (I believe) emerging from the fact that we're still fighting a phase of the Civil War. (I'll explain that in a minute.) In any case, don't look to Washington to solve the problems we're facing until very late in the Crisis, but that doesn't mean things can't get done. They'll just get done on a lower level.

What I mean by the continuation of the Civil War is this. We use that name for the pitched-battle phase that took place from 1861 to 1865, but if we look at the underlying conflicts, the thing started a lot earlier than that and continued after the shooting stopped, following the rhythm of the saeculum but always trying to resolve the same issues. That's a conflict between the mainstream American culture and the oddball white Southern culture that once dominated it and has been losing power ever since. You can see the conflict reflected in a number of passages of the Constitution, which means it goes at least all the way back to the Revolutionary Crisis.

During the Civil War itself, the federal government was relevant and able to act because most of the Southern Congresscritters weren't sitting, their states having seceded. This freed the federal government to do a lot of things like building railroads and homesteading and new public education work and so on and so on that had been blocked by the Southern votes before the secession happened. In the Great Power Crisis, the federal government was highly relevant probably because of the political anomaly that made Franklin Roosevelt a Democrat. Most economic reformers and progressives of that time were Republicans like his cousin Theodore. If he'd followed Cousin Teddy's footsteps in that respect, very likely the Southern Democrats would have obstructed a lot of what he tried to do, but because he was a Democrat he pulled them in via party loyalty and got incredible things done. (Mr. Hitler helped quite a bit, too.)

Today, neither of those elements is in play. The Southern Congresscritters are obstructing rather than seceding, and the parties have switched both regional and ideological positions so that party loyalty doesn't bring them into line -- they're Republicans now. As a result, we have a paralyzed federal government, and the Democrats are presenting all (sane) points on the political spectrum, from very progressive to very conservative (but not loony). The oddball South is at its weakest in U.S. history, but still has enough strength to keep anything from getting done at the national level. Most likely we are going to have to play out the final act of the Civil War before the federal government will be able to accomplish anything.<p>

Regarding the 2016 presidential election, that will be decided in the Democratic primaries. No GOP candidate who can win the nomination can also win the election. So for the presidency at least, the important question is who the Democrats will nominate. Of course, see above re the Civil War; that may not be an important consideration yet. The numbers say the Dems will retake the Senate next year, too; the House is a bit harder to call. That may or may not go blue.

This is a time for Millennials, not Boomers, to drive the process, but that doesn't mean driving it in a conventional way by voting for candidates that Blue Boomers would prefer. Our generation has really already done its job, by dramatically revising the consensus values in the Awakening and Unraveling eras. I think we did a pretty good job of that, ably assisted by Xers of course, but at this point the best we can do is get out of the way -- maybe offering a few sage words of advice from time to time.
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"

My blog: https://brianrushwriter.wordpress.com/

The Order Master (volume one of Refuge), a science fantasy. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZZWEAS
Smashwords link: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/382903







Post#423 at 01-05-2015 01:54 AM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
Whoops! I meant Montana! Big mistake of American history -- so many states in 1890.
IIRC this was because the Republicans wanted to carve out as many plains states as possible because they would be Republican. This is the primary reason there are two Dakotas.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#424 at 01-05-2015 02:01 AM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by radind View Post
I forgot to mention that I watched several episodes of " Nazis: Evolution of Evil" on AHC last night. This is a sobering reminder of the true evil of Hitler and the need to be watchful so that we do not ever go down this evil path. Extreme authoritarianism from any group must be resisted.
One aspect that needs to be mentioned a lot more than it does is the incompetence on the German Left in the early 30s. The Social Democrats were way too complacent and had too much faith in their belief that Hitler would respect constitutional government. The Communists, under orders from Stalin, rejected any suggestion of allying with the Social Democrats in a French-style National Front, and gleefully cheered the rise of Hitler with slogans such as "After Hitler, Us". When both sides realized what was happening it was too late.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#425 at 01-05-2015 03:30 AM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by radind View Post
I don't trust the super rich of any stripe.
The super-rich have been known to fund death squads against anyone who challenges their 'personal' bonds to plantations and sweat shops -- and of course murder social reformers who would challenge near-starvation pay and brutal management. When they fund fascist cliques (including perhaps the Klan) they set themselves on the ethical level of street thugs. Will they do so in America if they see themselves on the brink of losing power? Will they use brutal techniques to squeeze out small business so that people sell out for a pittance or for the right to escape penniless? Political events and time will tell.

The real nemesis of freedom is power of a few to do whatever they wish to anyone. When that is the norm, any claim of freedom is a sham.

I see the John Birch decendents as strident fringe groups with little influence and I see your linkage of Republicans with fascism as overblown and unwarranted.

So far the John Birch Society seems to eschew one critical hallmark of fascism: violence. The Birch Society is as crazy as ever; remember that it pegged Dwight Eisenhower as a Communist agent. It used to be a joke in most GOP circles. The late William F. Buckley excoriated it for its paranoia, often in the same sentence in which he mentioned the Klan and Nazis. Buckley may have been a piece of work, but at the least he insisted that conservatism ad here to classical standards of rationality. Since his death, Movement Conservatism has rejected rationalism completely except in accounting and technology.

The John Birch Society has not changed even though its brand of anti-communism has become irrelevant. That said, it opposes much that is not-Right-enough-for-its-tastes -- basically, modernity except in technology. The Republican Party has drifted toward the positions of the John Birch Society. Once a fringe group it has become part of the GOP Establishment.

Also, I do not agree with your claim that "most of the South has been taken over by successors of the White Citizens Councils".
The effects could be much the same. The effects, and not the presence of a cranky organization, are the offense.

If one lacks the freedom to vote (Libya under Qaddafi, Chile under the Pinochet, American blacks under Jim Crow), if one has no choice in how one votes (the Soviet Union and other Marxist-Leninist states, Nazi Germany, Baathist states in Iraq and Syria), or if one's vote is irrelevant (which it soon will be in most Southern states) one has no democracy. Southern right-wingers have fully consolidated power in several states, and I expect state governments to clamp down upon whatever local authority some Democratic-majority city (Birmingham, Mobile, Jackson, New Orleans, Memphis, Little Rock) may exercise. The Hard Right is against centralized government when it challenges it, but for it when it can use such power. Republicans can offend blacks who have perhaps 35% of the vote in Mississippi with impunity except for the protections of the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments and the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Maybe the White Citizens Councils are not back in some new name, but do not be surprised if they return and become influential.

It will be interesting to compare notes on the events that actually unfold in the next several years.
May the Republic endure.
I assume the worst with rapacious, unscrupulous, cruel, dishonest people wielding power. America today is no more exempt than Germany was in the 1930s. Cruel? Just recall the endorsement by Republicans of torture. This is a Crisis Era, and pathologies within a political order come to the fore in such a time. Maybe we will be wise and bring an abrupt end to the rightward drift of America in 2016. Stay tuned.

God bless America -- and death to fascism!
Last edited by pbrower2a; 01-05-2015 at 03:33 AM.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters
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