Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Keystroked cash in QE is a different operation from lowering interest rates, silly. The Fed lowers them by fiat, by lowering the prime rate for lending to banks. Other rates follow. It's true, I think, that short term rates follow the Fed more quickly than long-term rates. But recessions don't cause the prime interest rate to fall. The Fed decides that.

Let's try again. Prior to a recession the yield curve inverts where short term rates are higher than long term rates.

Less picky and much larger scale, yes. And QE did not change the interest rate which the Fed charged. That's separate. The rates were already zero when QE-1 started.

Here's something to clear the air.
http://www.peakprosperity.com/blog/80790/qe-for-dummies

Key-stroked cash has mostly to do with the Fed buying up bonds in QE. That's the reverse of what happens when the Fed gives cash to banks who buy T-bills, right? The Fed is always lending money to banks. After a recession starts, it lowers rates at which it lends to stimulate business. Business can get money from the banks via the Fed cheaper, and use the money for meeting expenses and expanding. Just basic economy 101. More conspiracy-oriented, complicated theories like yours and the Ron Paul types are just built on the basics that everyone knows.

Try again.
http://mic.com/articles/14687/what-i...n-simple-terms

Originally Posted by website

So what exactly did the Fed just do ... what is this whole policy all about? Well, Quantitative easing (QE) is an unconventional monetary policy used by central banks to stimulate the national economy when conventional monetary policy has become ineffective. A central bank implements quantitative easing by buying financial assets from commercial banks and other private institutions with newly created money, in order to inject a pre-determined quantity of money into the economy. This is distinguished from the more usual policy of buying or selling government bonds to keep market interest rates at a specified target value. Quantitative easing increases the excess reserves of the banks, and raises the prices of the financial assets bought, which lowers their yield.

So of course econ 101. If the demand for something goes up, say financial assets [including long dated bonds], then of course the yield goes down. So sure, the FED can cram the whole yield curve down to zip if it wanted to. It takes no conspiracy theory to explain that, silly.

In the case of the 2008 crash, real estate was also bailed out, because that was the central problem-- so the Fed acted after the fact, not before. That's not usually the case; the Fed does not usually bail out Freddies. The Fed did not cause the crash directly; banks sold lousy mortgages, backed by the Freddies, and they were bundled and leveraged by secret financial gamblers, using credit default swaps and derivatives.

... Facilitated by a flood of cheap money. Of course a dirty secret is that income disparity also fuels bubbles since fat cats use financial markets for their casinos. I wait with baited breath to hear about than in the Lamestream media.

What the Fed did was jack UP interest rates, and that contributed to the later downfall.

Could be, but for every bubble, there exist any number of pins.

The problem now is that lower interest rates are not helping as much as they used to, because the economy consists of more corporate players, while other folks then have less to spend, as you point out. It may well be accelerating automation, but that started long before QE and the Recession and helped to cause it. It is a long-term "structural" problem. Still, the economy has recovered somewhat since 2009, without inflation. The fears of the anti QE/Fed folk are not warranted. Gold is not relevant. The thing that keeps the economy from doing better now is Republican austerity, not Fed looseness. The latter has some retarding effects, as you point out, but on the whole it's probably a slight plus for the economy.

1. I only mentioned German gold as a loss in faith on the part of the Germans as whether their gold has been rehypothcated or not.
2. QE just blows bubbles which pop and damage the real economy. Here's some examples in Eric's neighborhood.
http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/c...-deals-prices/
I noted that some of those high dollar crap-shacks have burglar bars in Compton. They do add a nice heavy metal touch, I must say.

A bit dated, but as far as houses, it's so true.

Originally Posted by updated lyrics

All the leaves are brown and the sky is red
I've been for a walk on a winters` day
I'd be rich and besotted if I was in L.A.
California debting on such a winters` day

Stepped into a bank I passed along the way
Well, I got down on my knees and I pretend to pay
You know the banker likes the cold he knows I'm gonna stay
California debting on such a winters` day

All the leaves a brown and the sky is red
I've been for a walk on a winters` day
If I didn't tell her I could leave today
California debting on such a winters day
On such a winters day, on such a winters day

:: bows

Originally Posted by Kinser79

And what commodity is it exactly? Linen? Paper? Electrons? Where is its value derived? It is not a commodity in the sense that gold is, or a t-shirt is. The US dollar is a fiat currency backed by nothing, and it isn't even required to be used for transactions except for tax purposes. I could pay my vegetable man in brides if he'd accept them.

I can purchase gold and t-shirts and even Euro's with our dollars. Manufacturing cost determines the value of our dollars. We back the dollar today.

Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62

Let's try again. Prior to a recession the yield curve inverts where short term rates are higher than long term rates.



Here's something to clear the air.
http://www.peakprosperity.com/blog/80790/qe-for-dummies



Try again.
http://mic.com/articles/14687/what-i...n-simple-terms



So of course econ 101. If the demand for something goes up, say financial assets [including long dated bonds], then of course the yield goes down. So sure, the FED can cram the whole yield curve down to zip if it wanted to. It takes no conspiracy theory to explain that, silly.



... Facilitated by a flood of cheap money. Of course a dirty secret is that income disparity also fuels bubbles since fat cats use financial markets for their casinos. I wait with baited breath to hear about than in the Lamestream media.


Could be, but for every bubble, there exist any number of pins.



1. I only mentioned German gold as a loss in faith on the part of the Germans as whether their gold has been rehypothcated or not.
2. QE just blows bubbles which pop and damage the real economy. Here's some examples in Eric's neighborhood.
http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/c...-deals-prices/
I noted that some of those high dollar crap-shacks have burglar bars in Compton. They do add a nice heavy metal touch, I must say.

A bit dated, but as far as houses, it's so true.







:: bows

The real estate you alluded to is about 350 miles South of here. But the Bay Area also has its share of bad hoods.

Originally Posted by Classic-X'er

A divorce bankrupted my sister. The family financially pitched in and helped her through it. Her piece of crap car was always breaking down and unreliable. She needed a new car. I arranged a meeting with my banker and informed him of the circumstances relating to the bankruptcy on her credit report. The banker didn't care that City Bank and other credit card companies got the shaft. He cared about whether or not she paid the mortgage and car payments on time. Once he gave me his nod of approval, I put her in touch with him and they met to determine a comfortable amount of money to borrow & spend on a new car for her. Purchasing the car is another story.

I think most families would do something for a relative who hits a rough spot financially so I'm not really running a contest. It's just that in some cases say illness or injury can render a relative's needs such that they exceed a family's own financial means. Pretty much any long term or life time medical condition can do that. Bipolar disorder is bad enough for the person with it, but it's also a major pain for those around said person. Try living someone who hallucinates a neighbor's for sale sign into an ISIS flag with a subsequent flip out and you'll see what I mean.

Originally Posted by Classic-X'er

Parents are both gone and are no longer here to influence me. My friends and I have our own lives, our own families, our own homes, our own problems, concerns and issues that are related to them. My friends and I have little to no influence over one another at this point and haven't had much influence over one another since we were juniors in high school. We began the process of separating from one another and going our own ways and doing our own things and making our own dicissions during high school. At 25, my wife and mother to a lesser extent were the only primary influences in my life.

Then you need new friends. I don't hang out with the same losers I did in high school. First because I moved, and second because they are losers. I replaced all my high school friends with different people. That is the common experience I've encountered. That being said, I would assume that your wife would be your peer and as such my argumentation that peer group (in your case a single person) would have greater influence than your parents.

In my case, both parents are living. I don't speak to the sperm donor, mostly because I don't care to. If I wanted to hear about how I was going to burn in hell for eternity I'd unblock the christian channels on my tv. As for my mother, if I wanted to hear the latest new age crap, I'd talk to Eric, he is unlikely to suggest that my life is a failure because I manage a restaurant rather than being a lawyer or whatever.

Originally Posted by Classic-X'er

No. Volunteers choose to donate their time and work for free and generally do so at their own leisure.

I was being snarky in my previous post. (Tone doesn't always translate on forums.) I have not run a dialectical analysis of non-profit workers (paid or volunteers). I am unlikely to as their numbers are too small to constitute a class of their own. Hell the petty bourgeoisie barely exists anymore. I would say that most non-profit workers are likely to fit into the proletariat, and their stratum would depend on income, lifestyle, etc.

Originally Posted by nihilist moron

Young people just about worship Steve Jobs, the king of selling people shit that they don't really need.
Plus there's the fact that the kids in Baltimore looted a store that sold ... brand name athletic shoes.

How many young people do you actually know? Further what is your definition of young? I've yet to run into a single Millie (and I work with loads--only two Xers in my work place, myself and my donut man--though we do have a couple of Silents who are retired and want some extra money) yet who worships Steve Jobs. And I hire whites, blacks, latinos, straight, gay whatever. Basically the requirement for me hiring you is having a pulse and showing up. (Keeping the job is a different story.)

Do they want IShits? sure. But most of them are fine with android or any other smart phone. I do not think that a smart phone would be a status symbol when just about everyone has one, unless "Hey look at me, I got the same shit everyone else got" is now a status.

As for the looting in Baltimore...I guarantee you that grocery stores were also robbed. Generally when there is rioting and looting everything not nailed down gets expropriated. As such, that is no indication of the popularity of status items.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

It's not even that. It's more an accounting device than anything else. It also acts as a transaction catalyst, making it possible for a barber to trade haircuts for bread, without having to find baker in need of tonsorial services.

Originally Posted by Classic-X'er

I can purchase gold and t-shirts and even Euro's with our dollars. Manufacturing cost determines the value of our dollars. We back the dollar today.

M&L's post basically answers your statement. The dollar is backed by the faith that it can buy stuff. The Euro is backed by the faith that it can buy stuff. The Zimbabwe Dollar is backed by the faith that it will buy stuff. As such, it is not really a commodity. It is a representation of value, but until such time as it actually pays to save money in cash, it is not a store of value like say gold bricks are.

I would argue that paper (or electronic) dollars are not a commodity at all (well the paper they are printed on is a commodity) and should faith be lost that the US dollar will buy stuff then one might as well use them as wallpaper.

Originally Posted by Kinser79

Then you need new friends. I don't hang out with the same losers I did in high school. First because I moved, and second because they are losers. I replaced all my high school friends with different people. That is the common experience I've encountered. That being said, I would assume that your wife would be your peer and as such my argumentation that peer group (in your case a single person) would have greater influence than your parents.

In my case, both parents are living. I don't speak to the sperm donor, mostly because I don't care to. If I wanted to hear about how I was going to burn in hell for eternity I'd unblock the christian channels on my tv. As for my mother, if I wanted to hear the latest new age crap, I'd talk to Eric, he is unlikely to suggest that my life is a failure because I manage a restaurant rather than being a lawyer or whatever.

My school friends are like brothers to me. I would never find better friends than them. As far as friends go, best friends for life are very rare and hard to find. I have several other friends than them. I have softball buddies. I have work buddies. I have customers that are now considered friends. I have bar buddies and dart league buddies. I have hunting and fishing buddies. I have neighbors who are considered friends. I don't need new friends. I'm satisfied with all my friends.

Originally Posted by Kinser79

Then you need new friends. I don't hang out with the same losers I did in high school. First because I moved, and second because they are losers. I replaced all my high school friends with different people. That is the common experience I've encountered. That being said, I would assume that your wife would be your peer and as such my argumentation that peer group (in your case a single person) would have greater influence than your parents.

CXr wasn't college material -- or at least material for a college that one can get something out of attending. (Example: some college in Dallas pushed "X University Teaches Traditional Values". First of all, kids learn traditional values at home -- or they do not learn them. Second, a good college education compels youth to test traditions for their validity and relevance. Some traditions show themselves necessary; some are simply benign; some have outlasted their utility. Even religious schools which may push a specific theology might oblige youth to read Marx to determine how relevant he is on the whole and whether he is relevant in places and under what conditions.

There's only one virtue to keeping ties to old cronies from high school -- if one wants to stay in the narrow environment in which one was brought up. Small-town life may be intellectually simple, but the human relationships are complicated. Without those ties one can be incredibly lonely.

Originally Posted by Kinser79

I'm not most people. The cult of govmt spending being tied to revenue is a hold over from when currency was always a commodity (usually gold). Most countries have not backed their currencies in gold for a long long time.

The Force is strong in you, young Jedi.

I hope you see the change, the shattering of the myth, in your lifetime; I don't think it's likely in mine.

Originally Posted by Kinser79

How many young people do you actually know? Further what is your definition of young?

1. Plenty. If you want an exact number, I'll have to count.
2. 20s, teens.

Originally Posted by Classic-X'er

My school friends are like brothers to me. I would never find better friends than them. As far as friends go, best friends for life are very rare and hard to find. I have several other friends than them. I have softball buddies. I have work buddies. I have customers that are now considered friends. I have bar buddies and dart league buddies. I have hunting and fishing buddies. I have neighbors who are considered friends. I don't need new friends. I'm satisfied with all my friends.

From your previous post, it would indicate that you are not close to any of your friends really. As such they cannot be like brothers to you. Brothers have a tendency to be close after they get over their petty childhood issues. Or at least that was the case with me with my cousin who is closest to my age. That being said, my point that peer group (IE Friends) have a greater influence over someone than one's parents in the long run is still valid--or at least so for most people. There are always exceptions.

Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62

Try living someone who hallucinates a neighbor's for sale sign into an ISIS flag with a subsequent flip out and you'll see what I mean.

Yikes. That goes way beyond financial hardship, and FYI it indicates something beyond bipolar disorder.

Originally Posted by nihilist moron

1. Plenty. If you want an exact number, I'll have to count.
2. 20s, teens.

So of the Plenty that you know, those worship Steve Jobs. It is not true of everyone, much less a majority. The majority wants their iShit* and otherwise could care less about the biography of a dead man. Of course there could be a race and/or class component that I'm not seeing.

As to point two, I would not include "teens" as a young adult. People spend the majority of that decade of life as a minor. I would also say that most people who are over 29 are not young adults anymore (even if they may be classified as such by S&H). So we may be talking about two different things.

The thing to keep in mind espeically about teenagers is that their brain structure is still developing and in many ways child like. People generally are not fully developed in their mental capacities until about age 25.

Originally Posted by Kinser79

That being said, my point that peer group (IE Friends) have a greater influence over someone than one's parents in the long run is still valid--or at least so for most people. There are always exceptions.

That's not really true in the (growing) Indian subculture that I was talking about. But like I said, it's too early to tell with the American-born kids. The ones over in India are ramping up the materialism right now. And it's easy because their economy is booming.

Originally Posted by Kinser79

As to point two, I would not include "teens" as a young adult.

Dude. I said "young people." If you want to nitpick my posts, please read them more carefully!
P.S. You do realize that teens are an important marketing demographic?

Originally Posted by nihilist moron

That's not really true in the (growing) Indian subculture that I was talking about. But like I said, it's too early to tell with the American-born kids. The ones over in India are ramping up the materialism right now. And it's easy because their economy is booming.

Indian immigrants are not yet assimilated into this society. I assure you that their American born kids will be far more American than Indian. Indeed, it is typical for first generation Americans to accentuate their American-ness over their (insert ethnicity here)-ness.

Originally Posted by nihilist moron

Dude. I said "young people." If you want to nitpick my posts, please read them more carefully!
P.S. You do realize that teens are an important marketing demographic?

So by "young people" you really mean "ignorant children". And yes, I know that teens are an important marketing demographic, gotta get that brand loyalty before the critical thinking kicks in with the maturation of the frontal cortex.

Originally Posted by Kinser79

Indian immigrants are not yet assimilated into this society. I assure you that their American born kids will be far more American than Indian. Indeed, it is typical for first generation Americans to accentuate their American-ness over their (insert ethnicity here)-ness.

What most non- Indians don't realize is that current Indian immigrants are working really hard to keep their kids un- assimilated.
But ok, if you say so. No point in arguing about it.

Originally Posted by Kinser79

So by "young people" you really mean "ignorant children"

No. You're still not reading.
Anyway, have a great day. I'm done.

Originally Posted by nihilist moron

What most non- Indians don't realize is that current Indian immigrants are working really hard to keep their kids un- assimilated.
But ok, if you say so. No point in arguing about it.

I doubt that will work. Teenage rebellion, which is the natural state--the assertion of independence from the parent(s)--will dictate that these kids will at some point in being rebellious attach themselves to their American-ness. They will have to. They try going to India, they will be viewed as American. Much like how third and fourth generation Irish Americans are called Yanks when they go to Ireland.

I could put in a rather long and rambling story of a Navy buddy of mine, but it is not really relevant to the topic at hand. Point being we were in Ireland and he claimed to be Irish but as soon as it was known that he was born in Massachusetts he was instantly branded a yank.

Originally Posted by XYMOX_4AD_84

I don't think the majority of Tea Partiers give a rat's ass about the fact we have a (half) black President. Look at some of the black politicians and pundits who are part of that subculture. If it was up to the Tea Partiers, any one of them would make an ideal President. While I concede there are some racists embedded in the Tea Party, the Tea Party is mostly agnostic on the issues related to race. That is not what floats their boats.

It's a major component. It is usually hidden and/or subconscious. The hatred for Obama is tinged with racism. Tea Party opposition to government spending is responding to the dog whistle. "Government spending" is a code word for "giving my tax money to blacks." The whole opposition to taxes, which is the main priority of the Taxed Enough Already party, is colored by resentment against paying for welfare to poor blacks and other ethnics. Most Tea Party folks are older and predominantly southern, although their leading politicians are Gen Xers.

Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62

So of course econ 101. If the demand for something goes up, say financial assets [including long dated bonds], then of course the yield goes down. So sure, the FED can cram the whole yield curve down to zip if it wanted to. It takes no conspiracy theory to explain that, silly.

Are US bonds more expensive now? I hadn't heard that. Don't have time now to read your links; maybe later...

... Facilitated by a flood of cheap money. Of course a dirty secret is that income disparity also fuels bubbles since fat cats use financial markets for their casinos. I wait with baited breath to hear about than in the Lamestream media.

The income bubble will pop sometime, unless the Left takes over and reduces it.

But again I don't think the Great Recession was fueled by a flood of cheap money. If anything, it was the reverse. Cheap credit-- yes. Cheap money is the only available means of healing it, since Nov.2010. No doubt it is a flawed and counter-productive method in many ways.

:: bows

Nice song and lyrics.

Originally Posted by nihilist moron

Yikes. That goes way beyond financial hardship, and FYI it indicates something beyond bipolar disorder.

1. Obviously whatever happened did cause financial hardship. I've received 2 calls from her car note company.
2. As for the mental condition, that's a long story and a long road ahead. I had to take tomorrow off so I can drive her all the way to Tulsa to see her psychiatrist. Mom and dad are 78 and that trip hurts their backs. Then of course she is in no shape to drive herself.
3. Oklahoma has a common red state affliction of suck ass mental health resources. Prison is the usual mental health facility here FWIW.