https://forums.spacebattles.com/thre...ration.339108/

The question is simply "what is your opinion of the Baby Boomers?". The options were 'Very Positive', 'Positive', 'Neutral', 'Negative', and 'Very Negative'. There were two hundred and one total respondents.

With eighty-three votes and forty-one point three percent, 'Negative' easily carried the day. 'Neutral' came in second, with seventy-two votes and thirty-five point three percent. 'Very Negative' is in a strong third place with thirty-nine votes and nineteen point eight percent.

It's the 'Positive' and 'Very Positive' results I find funny. They're at five and two votes, respectively - statistical noise. Exactly one-fifth as many respondents have a Positive or Very Positive view of Boomers as have Very Negative views.

The demographics are early X'er to late Millie, with a strong concentration of late eighties babies. And a full sixty percent of them have a Negative to Very Negative view of Boomers. I kinda interpret most of the Neutral responses as being active indifference too, which might skew the answers even more dimly.

This to me demonstrates that the common perception of the crisis is that its going poorly. Boomers are not being seen as wise leaders but petty fools that are making things worse. They still have (I think) 5-7 years to fix that perception but I dont have a lot of hope for them,

Originally Posted by Debol1990

This to me demonstrates that the common perception of the crisis is that its going poorly. Boomers are not being seen as wise leaders but petty fools that are making things worse. They still have (I think) 5-7 years to fix that perception but I dont have a lot of hope for them,

The Puritans were set aside by the Glorious. Heck, so were the Cavaliers put aside by the Glorious in that Crisis. The Puritans & Cavaliers were given one last hurrah with the Salem Witch Trials, but that was it. A Crisis can end with a Civic generation saying "a pox on both your houses" and just doing what needs to be done in the 1T that follows.

I actually appreciate the doldrums compared to the alternative. Imagine if, say, we thought our leaders were brilliant and the Russians or the Chinese thought their leaders were brilliant... Could it end any other way than mushroom clouds?

Isn't that sort of how things went last time around.....

Originally Posted by Chas'88

The Puritans were set aside by the Glorious. Heck, so were the Cavaliers put aside by the Glorious in that Crisis. The Puritans & Cavaliers were given one last hurrah with the Salem Witch Trials, but that was it. A Crisis can end with a Civic generation saying "a pox on both your houses" and just doing what needs to be done in the 1T that follows.

The difference being that in those old days the cycle was longer and lifespans were shorter. It was much easier for civics to put aside their elders then, since most of them were dead.

The real saeculum as described in T4T is most-likely really only the modern, post-Enlightenment/Romantic/Revolution saeculum.

So it can't be a pox on both houses this time; or partially but not entirely. Because the Blue/Green Boomers advocate the actions that clearly must be taken: roll back climate change by changing our energy use, and ending the gross inequality resulting from the Reagan counter-revolution and free-market fundamentalism. All other issues are secondary to these; success in our 4T depends on these. What to do about war and guns (the peace movement) is important too, but the culture wars are receding into the background. The Millennials are already putting a pox on the culture wars.

Originally Posted by Debol1990

This to me demonstrates that the common perception of the crisis is that its going poorly. Boomers are not being seen as wise leaders but petty fools that are making things worse. They still have (I think) 5-7 years to fix that perception but I don't have a lot of hope for them,

I have hope for them, and for the Xers and Millies to fix their foolishness and misperceptions too. If our generations don't fix things by the end of this 4T in 2028-29, then our nation won't be fixed, and will just gradually decline; our USA nation ending hundreds of years later in nothing but a whimper. No new revolution will ever occur in the USA. Remember that. It's up to us, NOW.

Things are going OK. The minimal recovery program permitted under Obama worked; the economy is recovering. The wars are being contained. It's just that more needs to be done so that these situations don't just keep happening. Ecology and Equality are the watchwords.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

The difference being that in those old days the cycle was longer and lifespans were shorter. It was much easier for civics to put aside their elders then, since most of them were dead.

The real saeculum as described in T4T is most-likely really only the modern, post-Enlightenment/Romantic/Revolution saeculum.

So it can't be a pox on both houses this time; or partially but not entirely. Because the Blue/Green Boomers advocate the actions that clearly must be taken: roll back climate change by changing our energy use, and ending the gross inequality resulting from the Reagan counter-revolution and free-market fundamentalism. All other issues are secondary to these; success in our 4T depends on these. What to do about war and guns (the peace movement) is important too, but the culture wars are receding into the background. The Millennials are already putting a pox on the culture wars.

But then you get a Millennial who wants to start a race war. Certainly he's a bit of an odd out but still ...

Originally Posted by XYMOX_4AD_84

But then you get a Millennial who wants to start a race war. Certainly he's a bit of an odd out but still ...

Yes, right-wing militants are often racist, especially in the South. That would be a component in the right-wing reactionary rebellion I see as possible in the mid-2020s. But that is why the red/blue divide is not irrelevant. Folks like Roof are extreme Red folks, and their side must be defeated. The Blue Boomers have the map to success; the Red Boomers resist it. Other generations fill in the ranks behind them and around them. To what extent Red Millies like Mr. Root are around backing the right-wing racist tea party program remains to be seen, however. I suspect their "race war" or their "war against gun control and taxes" or some combo/alliance of those will be easily defeated, because not enough Red Millies will sign up and join the fight.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Yes, right-wing militants are often racist, especially in the South. That would be a component in the right-wing reactionary rebellion I see as possible in the mid-2020s. But that is why the red/blue divide is not irrelevant. Folks like Roof are extreme Red folks, and their side must be defeated. The Blue Boomers have the map to success; the Red Boomers resist it. Other generations fill in the ranks behind them and around them. To what extent Red Millies like Mr. Root are around backing the right-wing racist tea party program remains to be seen, however. I suspect their "race war" or their "war against gun control and taxes" or some combo/alliance of those will be easily defeated, because not enough Red Millies will sign up and join the fight.

What Roof did is despicable, but why he did it is still unknown. He may be the proto-Hitler you allude to, or an extreme mental case. Right now, we don't know. What we do know is, it's good that he's not on the street.

Eric: Race relations have been poor for some time, not unsurprisingly as it is one of the major issues of this saeculum and so obviously during the crisis its going to be apparent, especially with a (half, people seem to forge) black president that likes to use racial issues for politics. Racism will never go away, people naturally trust those that look like themselves and naturally are suspicious of those that do not. It cant be "fixed" it can only be mitigated, its rooted back to our ancient past, it isn't bad or good it just is... anyway that's all I have to say on race.

The turnings aren't "longer" or shorter they are roughly the same time, people ON AVERAGE live longer, but there has always been people that live to 80, 90, 100 just way less than we have today. (also child mortality rate brings the average down) people didn't literally all die of old age at 28, its just that a massive chunk of people died before they were five and most of us didn't last past 50. There were Greeks and Egyptions and Han Chinese that lived long long lives thousands of years ago.

And finally of all the years I've read this bored you let your personal ideology dictate way way way too much of how you think this crisis is, will and should be going. As Chas has said in the Micro Turning threads about "new age puritanism" it really doesn't matter who "wins" (i don't think anyone really can besides superficially). The world will not end if Donald Trump and VP Sarah Palin send us on a Glorious crusade to Liberate the middle east from Isis, and it will not end If Sanders and Warren turn us into a Novo-Communist Utopia (it will work this time for sure!) What will happen will happen, we will see it as what "had to happen" to survive the crisis, and the whole thing will start over again.

Weather or not we stop the ice caps form melting there will be a high and then an awakening and then an unraveling and then all of us will be dead!

Originally Posted by Debol1990

Eric: Race relations have been poor for some time, not unsurprisingly as it is one of the major issues of this saeculum and so obviously during the crisis its going to be apparent, especially with a (half, people seem to forge) black president that likes to use racial issues for politics. Racism will never go away, people naturally trust those that look like themselves and naturally are suspicious of those that do not. It cant be "fixed" it can only be mitigated, its rooted back to our ancient past, it isn't bad or good it just is... anyway that's all I have to say on race.

You are correct; race is still an issue, as it has been in this saeculum. It seems to be getting worse in some respects anyway. But in the long term, in fact within this cycle of civilization, racism is doomed. Within a few generations, people will look much more the same as everyone else.

The turnings aren't "longer" or shorter they are roughly the same time, people ON AVERAGE live longer, but there has always been people that live to 80, 90, 100 just way less than we have today. (also child mortality rate brings the average down) people didn't literally all die of old age at 28, its just that a massive chunk of people died before they were five and most of us didn't last past 50. There were Greeks and Egyptions and Han Chinese that lived long long lives thousands of years ago.

Turnings and generations as specified by the authors were longer before the 18th century; you can look that up. And people didn't live as long; you can look that one up too. If a few people did, that was still few enough for the civics to cast aside and ignore. In the old days before the enlightenment/romantic movement ("modern times"), almost all history was made by juveniles. Millennials will not be able to cast aside Boomers and Xers this time. But they will nevertheless be in the drivers seat as an electorate, if they have learned to organize and exercise their democratic powers.

And finally of all the years I've read this board you let your personal ideology dictate way way way too much of how you think this crisis is, will and should be going. As Chas has said in the Micro Turning threads about "new age puritanism" it really doesn't matter who "wins" (i don't think anyone really can besides superficially). The world will not end if Donald Trump and VP Sarah Palin send us on a Glorious crusade to Liberate the middle east from Isis, and it will not end If Sanders and Warren turn us into a Novo-Communist Utopia (it will work this time for sure!) What will happen will happen, we will see it as what "had to happen" to survive the crisis, and the whole thing will start over again.

No, decisions have to be made; that is up to us. The choice could not be more clear. That is not ideology; it is just simple fact. We've got to get a handle on global warming and inequality, and maybe foreign threats too, or we decline. 4Ts are times of decision; always. We face realities, or we do not survive as a nation. That is the choice in every 4T, and there is always a winner. Why would this one be different, just because some people here don't like boomers or millennials, or have some crazy idea they can just shove aside and ignore what still divides the nation?

(Whether) or not we stop the ice caps form melting there will be a high and then an awakening and then an unraveling and then all of us will be dead!

And that will be failure, and those turnings will be failures.

Lots of people here need to re-read the book and face up to the task of this 4T, instead of just saying "well, our time is a failure; our generations are hopeless; maybe the next awakening will fix things." Ain't gonna happen folks; no way!

And the best way to guarantee failure, now or ever, is a pessimistic or cynical attitude.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

What Roof did is despicable, but why he did it is still unknown. He may be the proto-Hitler you allude to, or an extreme mental case. Right now, we don't know. What we do know is, it's good that he's not on the street.

He said he wanted to start a race war. That's as much knowledge as we're gonna yet, and it's enough.

Originally Posted by Debol1990

Eric: Race relations have been poor for some time, not unsurprisingly as it is one of the major issues of this saeculum and so obviously during the crisis its going to be apparent, especially with a (half, people seem to forge) black president that likes to use racial issues for politics. Racism will never go away, people naturally trust those that look like themselves and naturally are suspicious of those that do not. It cant be "fixed" it can only be mitigated, its rooted back to our ancient past, it isn't bad or good it just is... anyway that's all I have to say on race.

While we are in agreement on the meat of this paragraph I would quibble that Obama actually has tried to down play race throughout his term. He could have made it a bigger issue but hasn't. The right however...

The turnings aren't "longer" or shorter they are roughly the same time, people ON AVERAGE live longer, but there has always been people that live to 80, 90, 100 just way less than we have today. (also child mortality rate brings the average down) people didn't literally all die of old age at 28, its just that a massive chunk of people died before they were five and most of us didn't last past 50. There were Greeks and Egyptions and Han Chinese that lived long long lives thousands of years ago.

Again, we agree on this, however, explaining to Eric The Ignoramus the concept of averages is impossible. Quite honestly he lacks an understanding of basic science, basic math, and quite frankly if he chooses to not believe objective reality you cannot stop him. Many have tried to get him to understand basic math and science...it is well quite frankly beyond him.

And finally of all the years I've read this bored you let your personal ideology dictate way way way too much of how you think this crisis is, will and should be going. As Chas has said in the Micro Turning threads about "new age puritanism" it really doesn't matter who "wins" (i don't think anyone really can besides superficially).

Eric allows his personal idiocy..er...I mean ideology dictate everything he posts on this forum. He is an ideologue boomer of the worst sort: close minded to all those who have a different view, unwilling to change his view even if they conflict with reality (let alone facts), utterly convinced that everything can be solved in the false binary of red vs blue, and finally he speaks much but knows little.

Good luck with trying to debate with him, I however have more important things to do than that...like picking my nose.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

What Roof did is despicable, but why he did it is still unknown. He may be the proto-Hitler you allude to, or an extreme mental case. Right now, we don't know. What we do know is, it's good that he's not on the street.

No, EtG is right on this, and it's dishonest to claim otherwise.

Originally Posted by Kinser79

While we are in agreement on the meat of this paragraph I would quibble that Obama actually has tried to down play race throughout his term. He could have made it a bigger issue but hasn't. The right however...



Again, we agree on this, however, explaining to Eric The Ignoramus the concept of averages is impossible. Quite honestly he lacks an understanding of basic science, basic math, and quite frankly if he chooses to not believe objective reality you cannot stop him. Many have tried to get him to understand basic math and science...it is well quite frankly beyond him.



Eric allows his personal idiocy..er...I mean ideology dictate everything he posts on this forum. He is an ideologue boomer of the worst sort: close minded to all those who have a different view, unwilling to change his view even if they conflict with reality (let alone facts), utterly convinced that everything can be solved in the false binary of red vs blue, and finally he speaks much but knows little.

Good luck with trying to debate with him, I however have more important things to do than that...like picking my nose.

hahah! thank you I just had to say something! but regardless, the reason boomers are so generally disliked is because (red or blue, left or right) they are all as completely devout in their political opinions as he is. No compromise, no pragmatism, and this is the age group that is our leaders right now! This is the lunacy that has gotten us here in the first place not liberalism, or conservatism, the inability for boomers to admit when they are wrong, and do what is best for the country.

A truly sad state of affairs.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

What to do about war and guns (the peace movement) is important too,[

The gun issue is a culture wars feature. The "peace movement" should be remapped to "butting out of other nation states" affairs. The support of this Arab spring thing was the penultimate reverse midas touch. Everything we touched, turned to shit.

Hopefully, Millies won't give a flying fuck on the gun debate and take note that foreign policy based on naive idealism is a no go. Word: realpolitik.

but the culture wars are receding into the background. The Millennials are already putting a pox on the culture wars.

Yeah, and here's to putting a pox on the gun debate.

Originally Posted by Debol1990

hahah! thank you I just had to say something! but regardless, the reason boomers are so generally disliked is because (red or blue, left or right) they are all as completely devout in their political opinions as he is. No compromise, no pragmatism, and this is the age group that is our leaders right now! This is the lunacy that has gotten us here in the first place not liberalism, or conservatism, the inability for boomers to admit when they are wrong, and do what is best for the country.

A truly sad state of affairs.

What do y'all Millies think of ending all wars of choice [including the War on Drugs] ?
Next up, do y'all think Boomers should shut their collective pieholes wrt guns?

Signed,

Rags - Jones Xer.

Originally Posted by Debol1990

hahah! thank you I just had to say something! but regardless, the reason boomers are so generally disliked is because (red or blue, left or right) they are all as completely devout in their political opinions as he is. No compromise, no pragmatism, and this is the age group that is our leaders right now! This is the lunacy that has gotten us here in the first place not liberalism, or conservatism, the inability for boomers to admit when they are wrong, and do what is best for the country.

A truly sad state of affairs.

I can't believe I'm defending them, but this wasn't always true. Bill Clinton was compromising to the point of being malleable and spineless.

Originally Posted by Einzige

I can't believe I'm defending them, but this wasn't always true. Bill Clinton was compromising to the point of being malleable and spineless.

Bill Clinton was also not a doctrinaire liberal, he was merely a run of the mill bourgeois liberal politician. EtG is not a politician and as such has the luxury of being doctrinaire.

Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62

The gun issue is a culture wars feature. The "peace movement" should be remapped to "butting out of other nation states" affairs. The support of this Arab spring thing was the penultimate reverse midas touch. Everything we touched, turned to shit.

Hopefully, Millies won't give a flying fuck on the gun debate and take note that foreign policy based on naive idealism is a no go. Word: realpolitik.



Yeah, and here's to putting a pox on the gun debate.



What do y'all Millies think of ending all wars of choice [including the War on Drugs] ?
Next up, do y'all think Boomers should shut their collective pieholes wrt guns?

Signed,

Rags - Jones Xer.

For the love of God, yes to both.

Also just to point out technology has already answered all these questions. No, you can't control access to guns, the information is it there and there's already a whole slew of information online for building your own guns and making bombs etc. For a thousand bucks you can buy a machine that will make it for you. Gun control is like spitting in the ocean at this point.

Wars on abstract concepts are for idiots. You can't stop terrorism, you can't stop recreational drug use. You can hope people are smart enough to avoid them (or at least the more serious consequences of using them in the case of recreational drug use... Really, nobody is going to stop drinking or smoking pot).

Either way the idea that we're just going to stop things by preventing access? Stupid and unrealistic. The idea that we're going to somehow make either a sinless Christian culture or a perfect, tolerant society based on whitewashing language? Totally moronic. And I would kindly like to invite all parties who're rabidly enamored on the issue to sew their lips shut and their fingers together.

Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62

The gun issue is a culture wars feature. The "peace movement" should be remapped to "butting out of other nation states" affairs. The support of this Arab spring thing was the penultimate reverse midas touch. Everything we touched, turned to shit.

Hopefully, Millies won't give a flying fuck on the gun debate and take note that foreign policy based on naive idealism is a no go. Word: realpolitik.

The gun issue isn't going away. It is a public safety issue, and not a culture wars issue at all except some right-wingers identify themselves with gun culture. Those people are barbarian creeps. It will continue to arouse much anger on both sides. It's amazing that people can see such events as we had this week, and still dismiss the gun issue, but that's barbarian Amerika today. But, if that's what Amerikans want, that's what they'll get. Maybe if it happens to you and yours, you won't be so sanguine about American barbarism.

Naive idealism is a no-go, but naive isolationism is also a no-go. World affairs are our affair.

Yeah, and here's to putting a pox on the gun debate.

Which has nothing to do with culture wars. I predict it will be front and center.

What do y'all Millies think of ending all wars of choice [including the War on Drugs] ?
Next up, do y'all think Boomers should shut their collective pieholes wrt guns?

Signed,

Rags - Jones Xer.

All sensible people of whatever generation should speak up against guns, and many will. All wars of choice should end.

Originally Posted by Debol1990

hahah! thank you I just had to say something! but regardless, the reason boomers are so generally disliked is because (red or blue, left or right) they are all as completely devout in their political opinions as he is. No compromise, no pragmatism, and this is the age group that is our leaders right now! This is the lunacy that has gotten us here in the first place not liberalism, or conservatism, the inability for boomers to admit when they are wrong, and do what is best for the country.

A truly sad state of affairs.

To thank kinser for any remark, is indeed a sad state affairs with regard to yourself; say to say.

If Boomers are disliked, that is stereotyping that does no-one any good. It doesn't matter if "Boomers are disliked." Millennials are disliked too. Xers are disliked too. So what? We are all we have, and we need to make the best of who we are.

There is no such thing as liberal Boomers who are "DEVOUT" in their opinions. It is simply a question of being concerned and taking a stand on issues that matter. Just to sit on the fence and do nothing may seem like an answer to some folks who complain about "left and right/blue and red," but it is just nothing more than accepting the current drift toward decline. Why do you want to accept this, Debol?

The lunacy that has gotten us here is the conservative movement. If you can't see that, you are just misinformed. What is best for the country is to be progressive. That is always the case in 4Ts. If the progressive side does not win, the nation loses. The progressive side has always won in every 4T, and that's the only reason we have any justice and prosperity at all in this country today.

You may think monarchy, slavery and Nazism or plutocracy was just as good as democracy, freedom and a vibrant middle class, Devol. Sure, to take a stand on these things is "lunacy." It's just red vs. blue nonsense to advocate for freedom. To stand for something is "no compromise," "no pragmatism." You'd rather that the progressive side had not won, I guess, and I can tell you that if you get your way, it will be just like allowing the Nazis to win, or allowing slavery to continue, or to submit to King George. You don't seem at all concerned whether the progressive side wins this time, either. To become a banana republic in a dying world is OK with you. To advocate for action, is just "red vs. blue nonsense that is causing all the problems."

You are the one who won't admit he's wrong, Debol. I don't see you admitting it. I don't see too many people besides me ever do it here, in fact. Xers are the most dogmatic and stubborn of any generation that posts here. You are wrong about that too. And it is Xer leaders who are screwing things up big time now. They are the ones who are blocking everything in the tea party congress. You don't see that either, Debol? What's wrong with you?

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

The gun issue isn't going away. It is a public safety issue, and not a culture wars issue at all except some right-wingers identify themselves with gun culture.

WRONG

Though considering this is coming from Eric the Ignoramus I'm not surprised. America is a gun culture, left, right and center; Boomer, Xer and Millie. If the issue is public safety then compulsory gun education is the solution. Children who are taught how to handle a weapon, and its destructive power respect said weapon as a tool--which is what it is. Suppose someone kills someone else with a hammer would the Blue Boomers have those banned too? Where does it stop.

Furthermore, by outlawing guns you assure that only outlaws will have the guns. Ever notice that all the school shootings take place on gun free campuses? That is not a coincidence.

Which has nothing to do with culture wars. I predict it will be front and center.

Considering you use astrology to make your predictions you have a fifty percent chance if you guess that the liberals given enough power will strip the proletariat of the second amendment.

All sensible people of whatever generation should speak up against guns, and many will. All wars of choice should end.

In the matter of wars and wars of choice the problem is not the guns used to fight them. Again would we blame hammers because someone used them to build a tacky house? Well Eric might...but he's an ignoramus. No sensible person would. Therefore if blame needs to be assigned then lets assign it to the politicians who want wars of choice. Protip for the last 30 years they've all been Boomers.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

To thank kinser for any remark, is indeed a sad state affairs with regard to yourself; say to say.

Actually I've been thanked by other people for my remarks. It is not uncommon for both Xers and Millies to say things like "Kinser has that right" or "Thank you for saying what I was thinking". It happens occasionally from Boomers too--granted less frequently than the other two generations, but it has happened. As a note, I would classify said boomers as "Blue" since I know the color wars are important to you Eric.

Personally I couldn't give a shit less about the Democrip vs Republood gang war. Jessie Ventura wrote a book about that topic but the title escapes me now--it was mediocre anyway (I used it for bathroom literature).

If Boomers are disliked, that is stereotyping that does no-one any good. It doesn't matter if "Boomers are disliked." Millennials are disliked too. Xers are disliked too. So what? We are all we have, and we need to make the best of who we are.

Everyone dislikes someone. Get over it. You dislike Xers yourself, in fact there is rarely a thread where you don't blame us for something. People in glass houses Eric should not throw stones.

There is no such thing as liberal Boomers who are "DEVOUT" in their opinions. It is simply a question of being concerned and taking a stand on issues that matter. Just to sit on the fence and do nothing may seem like an answer to some folks who complain about "left and right/blue and red," but it is just nothing more than accepting the current drift toward decline. Why do you want to accept this, Debol?

Liberal Boomers are quite "devout" in their opinions, as much as Conservative Boomers are "devout" in their opinions. The nature of the generation is such that once they find their philosophy, no matter how sophomoric it may be, they hold on to it tooth and claw. Should reality interfere with their ideology then they ignore it, reality that is. That is what has caused the drift. That is what has caused decay. That is what should have been done in the 3T which is now over.

Boomers who adhere to their philosophy in contradiction to reality are like people wearing shorts in -40C weather. They deserve to freeze to death.

The lunacy that has gotten us here is the conservative movement. If you can't see that, you are just misinformed. What is best for the country is to be progressive. That is always the case in 4Ts. If the progressive side does not win, the nation loses. The progressive side has always won in every 4T, and that's the only reason we have any justice and prosperity at all in this country today.

You do realize that the progressive side now is actually quite conservative, the so called conservative side is just bat-shit crazy.

You may think monarchy, slavery and Nazism or plutocracy was just as good as democracy, freedom and a vibrant middle class, Devol. Sure, to take a stand on these things is "lunacy." It's just red vs. blue nonsense to advocate for freedom. To stand for something is "no compromise," "no pragmatism." You'd rather that the progressive side had not won, I guess, and I can tell you that if you get your way, it will be just like allowing the Nazis to win, or allowing slavery to continue, or to submit to King George. You don't seem at all concerned whether the progressive side wins this time, either. To become a banana republic in a dying world is OK with you. To advocate for action, is just "red vs. blue nonsense that is causing all the problems."

I've yet to see Debol advocate monarchy (though that in and of itself may not be a bad thing, depends on the structure of said monarchy), slavery, Nazism, or plutocracy. Your strawman is full of straw Eric, I suggest you stay away from matches with it. I like a good fire.

You are the one who won't admit he's wrong, Debol. I don't see you admitting it. I don't see too many people besides me ever do it here, in fact. Xers are the most dogmatic and stubborn of any generation that posts here. You are wrong about that too. And it is Xer leaders who are screwing things up big time now. They are the ones who are blocking everything in the tea party congress. You don't see that either, Debol? What's wrong with you?

Hum perhaps that is because I'm not wrong. The demogogary and post-seasonal nonsense in Washington has leaders you know. If we are speaking of Congress in Particular the two party leaders in the Senate are Silents and the House Speaker is a Boomer. There may be Xers in the lower levels of the leadership but they got there by being Boomer Lite.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

The gun issue isn't going away. It is a public safety issue, and not a culture wars issue at all except some right-wingers identify themselves with gun culture. Those people are barbarian creeps.

Wrong! Guns are an inanimate object which can be used for many things. "Gun violence" per se has nothing to do with guns, but rather the social climate. One just has to reread Generations to get the idea. Violence of all sorts peaked with the 1961-1964 cohorts remember? Perhaps it's a product of growing up with no rules, soaring divorce rates [dysfunctional families anyone?] Here's one thing: when a single mother has son[s], and they hit 13 or so, guess what? The sons become larger and stronger than the mother. It's simple biology. That's when loss of parental authority happens. Here's another goody. The awakening devalued fatherhood for the sake of feminism. The blowback from that was men figured they could just take a pass. Just hand the data to sociologists and have them get a list of stuff of not what to do when it comes to child rearing.

It will continue to arouse much anger on both sides. It's amazing that people can see such events as we had this week, and still dismiss the gun issue, but that's barbarian Amerika today. But, if that's what Amerikans want, that's what they'll get. Maybe if it happens to you and yours, you won't be so sanguine about American barbarism.

Try again. I know damn well that environmental factors are way more important indicators as to the frequency of violent crime of all sorts. Last I heard, arson doesn't involve guns. I know I don't really listen to rap, but if you are interested in assorted violence, rap is the go to play for lyrics which explain it.

A Mille at work did expose me to this one. It's funny. Yeah, it's a rap song, but it sure has cool lyrics.



Of course there's the obvious culprit: The War on Drugs. It seams to have resurrected the spirit of Al Capone.
If you want fewer folks dying violent deaths, end this neo-prohibition crap. The problem here of course is we have a cadre of moral nags who think they can eliminate drugs by edict. I blame them instead of guns for drug violence.

Naive idealism is a no-go, but naive isolationism is also a no-go. World affairs are our affair.

Now we have to into specifics. I see nothing wrong with mutual natural disaster assistance agreements, disease/pest control efforts, and the like as OK. However the use of US military is something I would have a default of no use. The purpose of the military is exclusively restricted to the US homeland. We have a lot of Cold War relics like NATO. Of course we broke our promise to Russia on NATO expansion in return to German reunification. So, yeah Russia is a might pissed on what we've been doing. I think we also supported some Neo-fascists in Ukraine. Russia is understandably upset about that as well.

Which has nothing to do with culture wars. I predict it will be front and center.

Advice to younger Xer's and Millies. Turn on [to whatever], tune out, opt out.

All sensible people of whatever generation should speak up against guns, and many will.

That's dumb. GenX is already repairing the family and adding structure to the child environment. Millies will do the same, but in a less forceful manner, I think.

All wars of choice should end.

Yes, of course.