I have previously argued that the Millennial Saeculum was a Mega-Awakening. I was wrong. I now believe it to have been a Mega-Unraveling, but one taking place in a kind of Giga-High, assuming such things exist.

Accordingly, my outlook for the future - indeed, for the next century and a half - has gone from bleakly optimistic to pitch-black. Yet paradoxically, the immediate future will probably be... alright.

If the Mega-Cycle theory holds good, and we are in an Unraveling-Crisis, then my guess is that nothing substantial will change for the rest of the Millennial Saeculum, and that the next High (in my view, a High-Crisis-High) will begin, not with a bang, but a whimper.

I do not see any equivalent to Hiroshima and Nagasaki on our horizon, no Soviet flag rising over the Reichstag. Very probably we will sort of slide into the High with the current social order essentially unchanged - after all, what is an Unraveling if not a period of essential stasis? Quite probably many of you are going to come to see that there was no real social moment, nothing to point to and say, "see! that's when we transitioned out of the Crisis!", and accordingly come to doubt or disbelieve in the Theory.

That said, I expect things to marginally improve in the twenties and thirties, so that, like an exterior renovation to a building with a decaying superstructure, we come to accept that all is well and we've moved out of the Crisis. This is our "High-Crisis-High", a faint, glowing light in a snowstorm. Very probably the institutional abuses we've come to accept in the past Awakening, Unraveling and Crisis will be normalized; the mood will be claustrophobic and, if not dystopian, then negative-utopian.

The High-Crisis-Awakening (mid-2040s-early 2060s) will hit like a bolt from the blue, as befitting a High-Crisis-Awakening. It will be my Dark Awakening: the recognition that the world is ending will pave the way for a funerary march for modernity. All hitherto existing values - Christianity, Enlightenment rationalism, bourgeois individualism - will have proven themselves false. We will collectively retreat into the occult and into nihilism.

The High-Crisis-Unraveling (mid-2060s-early 2080s?) will be a downward spiral into oblivion. At this point in time, whatever social problems remain left over from the Millennial Saeculum will spill over into a general social deterioration. If the internal combustion engine is still the primary form of powered transportation for the majority of the population - as I expect it to be, economic growth having long ago ceased to bring about a mass proliferation of new technologies - this will probably be the time that the physical limits of oil production begin to be hit. "Peak oil", so long threatened by visionaries in the Millennial Saeculum, becomes a hard and harsh reality, ushering in the

High-Crisis-Crisis (late-2080s-early 2100s): These decades of darkness will sound the death bell for the kind of society established on the American continent in 1776 and in Europe in the 1790s. Take your favorite post-apocalyptic film or novel and apply it - it'll probably fit.

Sounds dire, right? I suppose it is. But that's alright - because, by 2112 or so, humanity will have passed into the greatest period of its existence to date: a Giga-Awakening.

It's difficult for me to imagine an Awakening-High-High. I'm picturing something very bucolic and springlike, but also sparse and spartan - perhaps a depopulation in the last Crisis to a sustainable level of a few billion people.

Anyone wanna take it from there? All I know is that I wish I hadn't been born until 2500 or so, when, by this (admittedly vastly simplified system), humanity should be experiencing an Awakening-Awakening-Awakening. Can anyone imagine that? I would give everything to experience such an Awakening. I imagine it would vastly outstrip even Eric The Green's wildest fantasies.

That's five Awakenings from the next one. Alas, alack.

For now, though, the twenty-first century with be bitter and brutal where it's not stagnant and complacent, and the first half of the twenty-second will be desolate and mournful. Once that Awakening-High-Awakening hits in the 2150s, though, things should be good for a very long time thereafter.

The future, as you see it. ha ha! I just decided to start a similar thread today. Let the fantasies begin lol

I think the astrological planetary cycles are the place to go to provide a cosmic clock of where we are, which connects us to the universe around us. I have of course described that in my book

http://philosopherswheel.com/book.htm

I have already described why the more-commonly accepted notion here that we are in a mega-unravelling, is false if you carry through the correlations with the other mega-periods. They don't fit at all.

The time of transition to a new civilization happened over 100 years ago. We are in a potential renaissance phase now. Ours is a golden age, and we don't realize it.

But however you chart it, whatever concepts you use to describe our evolutionary process-- where we are, where we are going, and where we need to go-- we need to understand this need in a basic way.

We need to create a society that respects life and consciousness in all beings, that attunes and sensitizes us to love and beauty, that puts the sacred first with all else added on.

It is clear we can't wait for some future awakening. We have been awakened already. We were awakened as much as we need to be awakened, in the late 1960s and early 1970s, and have developed this new consciousness in many fields ever since. We need to act as awakened beings NOW, in this 4T, if we hope for a sustainable life on Earth ever again.

The line it is drawn, the curse has been cast. The present now will later be past, for the times they are a changin' The writing is on the wall. All along the watchtower, wildcats growl. We can put it off, and die. OR we can realize where we are and what we need to do, and get on about it now.

It's up to you guys. Continue in our outdated science and culture, or remember our awakening and act accordingly.

Look up a growth graph for a bacteria culture in limited nutritional meda. It starts slow, then grows exponentially off the chart, until ... da-da-DUM! It all dies off.

Now look at a growth curve for the human population of the Earth.

Now consider what happens when other animals find themselves in an over-population ... for some reason, sicknesses emerge. And the population is culled.

That, my friends, is what I think is coming. Sometime in the next few decades, an air-borne Ebola, Smallpox Superized and Weaponized by some military lab lunatic, or some other damnable thing will start up, jump as they almost always do from another species, and then, Katy Bar the Door.

With some luck, by then we will not have destroyed sufficient species to doom most everything. (For example, if the very basic life forms in the oceans are destroyed, then there will be MUCH less oxygen, etc.) If we still have basic life forms, then perhaps our species can regroup and come back some day.

Originally Posted by TnT

Look up a growth graph for a bacteria culture in limited nutritional meda. It starts slow, then grows exponentially off the chart, until ... da-da-DUM! It all dies off.

Now look at a growth curve for the human population of the Earth.

Now consider what happens when other animals find themselves in an over-population ... for some reason, sicknesses emerge. And the population is culled.

That, my friends, is what I think is coming. Sometime in the next few decades, an air-borne Ebola, Smallpox Superized and Weaponized by some military lab lunatic, or some other damnable thing will start up, jump as they almost always do from another species, and then, Katy Bar the Door.

With some luck, by then we will not have destroyed sufficient species to doom most everything. (For example, if the very basic life forms in the oceans are destroyed, then there will be MUCH less oxygen, etc.) If we still have basic life forms, then perhaps our species can regroup and come back some day.

Depressing and possible. Adding population stress makes it more likely, and Africa is still in full-on growth mode. Short of genocide, we in the West have no way to impact that directly, and our ministrations tend to be either ignored or actively opposed. Maybe China will do better.

Originally Posted by TnT

Look up a growth graph for a bacteria culture in limited nutritional meda. It starts slow, then grows exponentially off the chart, until ... da-da-DUM! It all dies off.

Now look at a growth curve for the human population of the Earth.

Now consider what happens when other animals find themselves in an over-population ... for some reason, sicknesses emerge. And the population is culled.

That, my friends, is what I think is coming. Sometime in the next few decades, an air-borne Ebola, Smallpox Superized and Weaponized by some military lab lunatic, or some other damnable thing will start up, jump as they almost always do from another species, and then, Katy Bar the Door.

With some luck, by then we will not have destroyed sufficient species to doom most everything. (For example, if the very basic life forms in the oceans are destroyed, then there will be MUCH less oxygen, etc.) If we still have basic life forms, then perhaps our species can regroup and come back some day.

If this scenario happens, we have no-one to blame but ourselves. No doubt, some dangerous and deadly events will happen during this century. The momentum is already built in. That does not mean that these disasters are the only trait of this century. We can be the century that reverses the old ways and begins the new. We can become intelligent, and thus direct our fate. Future generations and centuries will reap the rewards, and we will have the distinct privilege of being the progenitors of a new age. And the "comeback" will be happening too.

Eingize, I think you should probably take a walk outside of white guy land for a couple of reasons. The first is that I don't really see a lot of white people having kids, and the ones that are, aren't letting into your philosophical direction. Why is that relevant? Well, Because that's where people's values really have their starting point. It's what people react to. And here in the US, what really shows up is the people who go on weird tangents don't propagate nearly as well as just straight up mainline, traditional people. And these kids who grow up in normal, mainline, traditional homes they grow up and respond to their upbringing.

So what you're saying might be true for oddball white people, but looking at them from a statistical stand point, they're increasingly making themselves irrelevant simply by not having any kids and therefore removing themselves from having points of contact with greater society.

So the people who ate going to replace us (us being white people), they don't give a shit about our stuff. They're growing up in normal, traditional and mainline churches, and they're responding to their place in our world. What you're seeing is through the lense of the of the failures of the 2T, and part of that failure is the failure to propagate amongst the future generation. ZPG loons, esoteric mystics from a hodgepodge religious background, Satanists, atheists, agnostics... all these things? They're dying out. They're dying out because if you're not breeding, you're not raising the people who will ultimately judge to be worth passing on to the next generation.

So, I agree this might be the immediate 1T future for a largish subset of white folks, but that has to be in the context of a reality where they are ever increasingly irrelevant, disappearing, and being pushed out of the view of normal ass kids growing up in a normal ass boring society, and they're what matters. Do you really think those kids are going to care about Marilyn Manson or Trent Reznor? I mean younger Millennials barely care. Hell, when you really look at it, that millennial cusper mall goth that constituted the core audience of either artist at the height of their popularity was maybe, what? One out of 20 people in their age group? And that's probably being pretty generous.

Nobody cares about the cave dwelling hermit with mysteries and some hidden truth in most times in history. He dies alone in his cave, and in 500 years the progenitors of the world that ignored him build a strip mall over his cave as a testament to his continued irrelevance to them. That's really how this works. In order to further a value set connections must be made within the greater society which allows for that.

Increasingly white people in general have said, "no thanks, let's not renew the subscription on our future," and that means it's our caves that will be built over.

Originally Posted by Kepi

Increasingly white people in general have said, "no thanks, let's not renew the subscription on our future," and that means it's our caves that will be built over.

And that is a bad thing how exactly?

Kepi has a weird, tangential way of looking at things, and this time it's the idea that what's normal is what propagates. Kinda ironic.

There's a grain of truth to his post, as I see it. Just being weird and self-destructive a la Marilyn Manson will not propagate. Not every renegade is going to found a movement.

What creates the future, though, is often what is on the fringes today. That's where the creativity is, where the people are who are ahead of their times. But that's only true if there is real discovery going on, and real quality and benefit to their creations. So, for example, artists like the Impressionists went off on their own fringe, but modern art is descended from their work. And so with modern physics, psychology, etc. All religions come from the mystics who went off into their cave. In the case of Islam, for example, that was literally true. Some technology is created in corporate labs, but more often it is individual tinkerers who discover things.

Who propagates literally might not matter. If normal but non-white folks are the ones propagating today in the USA, that may mean that the country is more non-white in the future, but these future folks might throw off what they inherit. Younger generations throw that off routinely; that's what makes the modern saeculum happen. These are not the Middle Ages when people followed what their parents said and did. Virtually whole generations can be renegades. The Boomers were; the Xers were. Civics, of course, are less likely to be. But that's not an American or human trait; that's a generational trait.

These days, of course, if Xers and Millies are not propagating what Boomers and Silents discovered, then the failure lies with the former and not the latter.

The 3T culture is likely to go largely into the dustbin of history. If the last Crisis is any indication we are likely to see more of an omnibus culture, one accessible to practically everyone and easy to appreciate (example from the last Crisis Era: the Golden Age of American Cinema. Arcane, esoteric entertainment will be leftovers from times before the Crisis, largely for a few misfit intellectuals or for rakes who failed to get the message. Much of it will be disseminated in pieces with the snide commentary "How could people go for this horrid stuff?"

By the end of the Crisis the oldest adults in large numbers will be Boomers assumed to be prudes due to their age.

Originally Posted by Kinser79

And that is a bad thing how exactly?

Nothing intrinsically. It's kinda like the pandas. If surrounding them with mountains of panda porn, hot date entertainment options, and teenage levels of peer pressure doesn't work, then that's on the pandas.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Kepi has a weird, tangential way of looking at things, and this time it's the idea that what's normal is what propagates. Kinda ironic.

There's a grain of truth to his post, as I see it. Just being weird and self-destructive a la Marilyn Manson will not propagate. Not every renegade is going to found a movement.

What creates the future, though, is often what is on the fringes today. That's where the creativity is, where the people are who are ahead of their times. But that's only true if there is real discovery going on, and real quality and benefit to their creations. So, for example, artists like the Impressionists went off on their own fringe, but modern art is descended from their work. And so with modern physics, psychology, etc. All religions come from the mystics who went off into their cave. In the case of Islam, for example, that was literally true. Some technology is created in corporate labs, but more often it is individual tinkerers who discover things.

Who propagates literally might not matter. If normal but non-white folks are the ones propagating today in the USA, that may mean that the country is more non-white in the future, but these future folks might throw off what they inherit. Younger generations throw that off routinely; that's what makes the modern saeculum happen. These are not the Middle Ages when people followed what their parents said and did. Virtually whole generations can be renegades. The Boomers were; the Xers were. Civics, of course, are less likely to be. But that's not an American or human trait; that's a generational trait.

These days, of course, if Xers and Millies are not propagating what Boomers and Silents discovered, then the failure lies with the former and not the latter.

Wrong conclusion. The failure would be the boomers. The right of judgement belongs to Xers and Millennials alone. Just like in another 30 years their world will begin to be judged. Of course Boomers love the world they created! They created it. Millennials will live the world they create. The new prophets will either propagate under it or willing decide not to renew.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

The 3T culture is likely to go largely into the dustbin of history. If the last Crisis is any indication we are likely to see more of an omnibus culture, one accessible to practically everyone and easy to appreciate (example from the last Crisis Era: the Golden Age of American Cinema. Arcane, esoteric entertainment will be leftovers from times before the Crisis, largely for a few misfit intellectuals or for rakes who failed to get the message. Much of it will be disseminated in pieces with the snide commentary "How could people go for this horrid stuff?"

By the end of the Crisis the oldest adults in large numbers will be Boomers assumed to be prudes due to their age.

More than likely the entire saeculum is fodder for history's dust bin. Who wants to hear the story of the people who were children inheriting the greatest legacy of all time, and then decided to squander it on a Peter Pan complex, idiot wars on abstract concepts, and fraudulent businesses practices.

By the end of next saeculum, I would guess other than a few cherry picked ideas, this saeculum will be deemed to be unworthy of study, because nobody wants to read about how after people went to the moon, they decided to take 40 years to bicker over nothing relevant, and then commit economic suicide.

Originally Posted by Kepi

More than likely the entire saeculum is fodder for history's dust bin. Who wants to hear the story of the people who were children inheriting the greatest legacy of all time, and then decided to squander it on a Peter Pan complex, idiot wars on abstract concepts, and fraudulent businesses practices.

No, the history of this saeculum is not the history of one generation. There are at least 3 active generations in every turning.

By the end of next saeculum, I would guess other than a few cherry picked ideas, this saeculum will be deemed to be unworthy of study, because nobody wants to read about how after people went to the moon, they decided to take 40 years to bicker over nothing relevant, and then commit economic suicide.

People went to the Moon during this saeculum, so even by your own measure, people will read about it. That was 23 years into it, in fact.

And this going to the Moon, helped open up the entire computer industry as we came to know it.

Environmental regulations will be a big legacy of this saeculum, and the environmental movement that started in the mid-1960s seeks to cure global warming and other kinds of assault on the Earth. I'd say that's a pretty big cherry we picked; comparable to the cherries from any other saeculum.

Along with this are regulations that protect the consumer, which started with Ralph Nader in 1966. Such laws were unheard of before.

The Democratic Party became a peace party in the 1970s, thanks to the peace movement of the late 1960s, and it elected a few presidents who were cautious about arbitrary exercize of American military power. Historic peace agreements were made or are in progress.

The best popular music in history came from the Awakening of this saeculum. Some valuable jazz came from its first turning too.

The "bickering over nothing relevant" was mostly during the 3T, and it's true that it's still going on. I might quibble a bit with the 40-year figure. The culture war "irrelevance" is declining, though.

And 3Ts always result in "economic suicide" or other kinds of suicide.

The point remains that most of what is not valuable during this saeculum was the product of the 3T (or the 1T too, since a lot of what was "built" in the 1T was a vast wasteland; NOT the greatest legacy of all time, very far from it). But this is true of all 3Ts and 1Ts in America. They are uninspired times.

They don't have to be. But that will require the change that the Awakening sought to bring to America; a new spiritual, quality culture. It might come; though not of course in the current 4T. But that is this saeculum's greatest legacy; the new spiritual movement.

And a Peter Pan complex keeps people young. I don't see how that's a detriment. It's a great legacy, in fact. In this saeculum, lifespans increased, and people learned many ways to keep healthy and youthful. 60 became the new 40. Bravo!

Cultural revival now skips from Awakening to Awakening, and the next one takes up where the last one left off. The challenge is to make it happen in all turnings, even if it's not front and center in all turnings. Only then will we have a healthy culture and civilization.

Originally Posted by Kepi

Wrong conclusion. The failure would be the boomers. The right of judgement belongs to Xers and Millennials alone. Just like in another 30 years their world will begin to be judged. Of course Boomers love the world they created! They created it. Millennials will live the world they create. The new prophets will either propagate under it or willing decide not to renew.

My dissent remains. If a generation throws over a valuable legacy from the prior generation, and contributes nothing itself, that is the failure of the new generation, not the older ones. It is their task now to redeem themselves and do better. No-one says people can be creative only in youth.

No doubt the failure of Boomer culture in the 3T was also great. Not only did they abandon the music of their youth, and some of them skewed toward right-wing delusion, but they contributed to the huge decline of TV and movies in the 3T. Instead of human character and life-lessons, for example, most movies became blockbuster artificial crash and bang scenes. Xers, however, only accelerated and accented these failures. Again, this all happened in the 3T, which is normal. So, you fail to get it right again on this topic.

In a healthy culture, it is always the job of next generations to develop what came before. In an unhealthy one like ours, styles and movements in culture are just thrown over. This was not a new trend with Xers, but they took it to a new level, and their original youth culture reached a new low.

Even so, just as some Xers like some aspects of Boomer culture, vice versa is also true. In my case, I admire Xtreme sports, wild hairdos, and practical productivity. Not all Xer youth music was horrible in my opinion; just a huge portion of it, and even that which was better, usually pales in comparison to what the late Silent to core Boomer group created. Exceptions may apply, but that's my judgement, and I don't see how you can say I have no right to it.

Xers love the youth culture they created, yes. It will take other generations to see it objectively for what it is (including boomers, and our opinion counts).

[QUOTE=Einzige;526185]
...That said, I expect things to marginally improve in the twenties and thirties, so that, like an exterior renovation to a building with a decaying superstructure, we come to accept that all is well and we've moved out of the Crisis. This is our "High-Crisis-High", a faint, glowing light in a snowstorm. Very probably the institutional abuses we've come to accept in the past Awakening, Unraveling and Crisis will be normalized; the mood will be claustrophobic and, if not dystopian, then negative-utopian...."

Wow, A very positive expectation over the coming decades. I see our future as dire. We have begun to plant the seeds of our destruction with the leading GOP candidate calling for a ban of all Muslims from travelling to the USA. I see the rhyming with 1973 when there was an oil embargo imposed on the US by the Arab nations of OPEC. Do you remember the lines of September, waiting for the gasoline to flow? I see OPEC shutting down oil exports to the 'West' aka US/Europe in a sort of unified response to reflect the anger of the Islamic faithful throughout the Middle East. I can see Putin stirring that up right now. If DJT becomes the GOP Presidential candidate we could easily end up reliving those years 1973-1974. This is something that would drive our oil prices up and drive all other oil prices even further down. I am dubious if it would be as successful as 1973-1974, but I can certainly see Putin putting that one together down the road. Especially if DJT wins the Presidency (all hail King Trump!)... If that happens, I wouldn't be surprised if the UN sets sanctions against the US!

Originally Posted by TnT

Look up a growth graph for a bacteria culture in limited nutritional meda. It starts slow, then grows exponentially off the chart, until ... da-da-DUM! It all dies off.

Now look at a growth curve for the human population of the Earth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsEHySFJN9E

Now consider what happens when other animals find themselves in an over-population ... for some reason, sicknesses emerge. And the population is culled.

That, my friends, is what I think is coming. Sometime in the next few decades, an air-borne Ebola, Smallpox Superized and Weaponized by some military lab lunatic, or some other damnable thing will start up, jump as they almost always do from another species, and then, Katy Bar the Door.

And we shall recite the nursery rhyme of Ring around the Rosie for a real Captain Trips

Ring around the rosie [plague blisters]
pockets full of posie [blossoms were thought to ward off "bad air"]
ashes, ashes [cremation]
we all fall down [if you had plague, you were confined in your house until you croaked].

With some luck, by then we will not have destroyed sufficient species to doom most everything. (For example, if the very basic life forms in the oceans are destroyed, then there will be MUCH less oxygen, etc.) If we still have basic life forms, then perhaps our species can regroup and come back some day.[/quote]



A shadow shall fall over the universe,
and evil will grow in its path,
and death will fall from the skies

Originally Posted by Eric

The future, as you see it. ha ha! I just decided to start a similar thread today. Let the fantasies begin lol

Of utmost service, man.

[QUOTE=Eric the Green;526356]

People went to the Moon during this saeculum, so even by your own measure, people will read about it. That was 23 years into it, in fact.
People also invented aluminum X-mas trees, pet rocks, mood rings, disco[yuck], and bell bottoms, and CB radiows - 2T.
People also invented Punk,colored Mohawk hairdos,heavy metal music, hard rock,and finalization in the 3T.
People also invented so far, big POTUS candidates - Christie, the badger cut - Trump, the finger wag -Clinton, dumbdumb Shrub, Party chief Rove, auto explode financial instruments like liar loans, subprime stuff that Fannie Mae buys because they're just plain stupid.

And this going to the Moon, helped open up the entire computer industry as we came to know it.

Which is now in China due to that other invention of financial engineering.

Environmental regulations will be a big legacy of this saeculum, and the environmental movement that started in the mid-1960s seeks to cure global warming and other kinds of assault on the Earth. I'd say that's a pretty big cherry we picked; comparable to the cherries from any other saeculum.

Heh, I like raspberries better than cherries. Here have a razzie.

Along with this are regulations that protect the consumer, which started with Ralph Nader in 1966. Such laws were unheard of before.

Yes, but, but, why the fuck am I still getting lots of phone calls from weird area codes. The FCC isn't doing its fucking job!

The Democratic Party became a peace party in the 1970s, thanks to the peace movement of the late 1960s, and it elected a few presidents who were cautious about arbitrary exercise of American military power. Historic peace agreements were made or are in progress.

I want a Democratic president who will exorcise the demons of financialization, fraudulent phone calls, corporate welfare, and whoring out to health care companies.

The best popular music in history came from the Awakening of this saeculum. Some valuable jazz came from its first turning too.

<- Eric [Yeah that + 3T hard/heavy metal music]

The "bickering over nothing relevant" was mostly during the 3T, and it's true that it's still going on. I might quibble a bit with the 40-year figure. The culture war "irrelevance" is declining, though.

Ppl who are still doing that crap need to STFU! I'm sick of mindless culture wars issues.

And 3Ts always result in "economic suicide" or other kinds of suicide.

2T's aren't so hot either. Stagflation was a bitch.

The point remains that most of what is not valuable during this saeculum was the product of the 3T (or the 1T too, since a lot of what was "built" in the 1T was a vast wasteland; NOT the greatest legacy of all time, very far from it). But this is true of all 3Ts and 1Ts in America. They are uninspired times.

No, they are sabbaticals for Nomad generations, silly.

They don't have to be. But that will require the change that the Awakening sought to bring to America; a new spiritual, quality culture. It might come; though not of course in the current 4T. But that is this saeculum's greatest legacy; the new spiritual movement.

Nope, the 1T will be something like a societal BBQ.

And a Peter Pan complex keeps people young. I don't see how that's a detriment.

Easy, it causes brain cell death by peanut butter.

It's a great legacy, in fact. In this saeculum, lifespans increased, and people learned many ways to keep healthy and youthful. 60 became the new 40. Bravo!

Yeah, the emergence of genetic testing is awesome and self empowering. I have my gene variants on hand. Rags got the awesome news that caffeine in particular is very healthy and nicotine is also beneficial for the type of Ach receptors I have.

Cultural revival now skips from Awakening to Awakening, and the next one takes up where the last one left off. The challenge is to make it happen in all turnings, even if it's not front and center in all turnings. Only then will we have a healthy culture and civilization.

Naw, let's have a 1T-3T... sequence. Even turnings make messies. They're like mice in the house. I hates meeces to pieces like Jinx the cat. Hell I even fed a mouse I caught to my lab.

Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62

With some luck, by then we will not have destroyed sufficient species to doom most everything. (For example, if the very basic life forms in the oceans are destroyed, then there will be MUCH less oxygen, etc.) If we still have basic life forms, then perhaps our species can regroup and come back some day.

On the positive side, even if we have a mega-pandemic, even we humans have the built in characteristic ... that some of us, perhaps even only a few of us, will survive because through dumb luck, our individual biology makes us unusually resistant to whatever the plague is.

Originally Posted by Kepi

Wrong conclusion. The failure would be the boomers. The right of judgement belongs to Xers and Millennials alone. Just like in another 30 years their world will begin to be judged. Of course Boomers love the world they created! They created it. Millennials will live the world they create. The new prophets will either propagate under it or willing decide not to renew.

Well Boomer world comes to an end around 2020. After that it will be the world as Xers (your generation) makes it. I'm 56. I'll have a reasonable chance is seeing most of what you guys create. We inherited 911 and the largest asset bubble in history in 2000. We did not play our hand particularly well, but I don't think your generation's leading lights hold much promise for something better.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

We need to create a society that respects life and consciousness in all beings, that attunes and sensitizes us to love and beauty, that puts the sacred first with all else added on.

Have to wait awhile for this. The times we are actually living in is rather different than what you desire, and is in fact moving in the opposite direction. The obscene is celebrated, and the pure is reviled. Your best chance of living in the utopia bubble is to create a commune in Colorado Springs (ground zero for whats left of the Ken Wilber crowd). These times do not call for drum circles. Time would be better spent learning perimeter defense and small group tactics.

Originally Posted by Mikebert

Well Boomer world comes to an end around 2020. After that it will be the world as Xers (your generation) makes it. I'm 56. I'll have a reasonable chance is seeing most of what you guys create. We inherited 911 and the largest asset bubble in history in 2000. We did not play our hand particularly well, but I don't think your generation's leading lights hold much promise for something better.

With Boomer leaders still around, and Millennials the predominant voting block, the Xers in the mid-2020s will have little choice but to follow the program and pitch in to help organize and manage things to make them work better.

Originally Posted by Dboy

Have to wait awhile for this. The times we are actually living in is rather different than what you desire, and is in fact moving in the opposite direction. The obscene is celebrated, and the pure is reviled. Your best chance of living in the utopia bubble is to create a commune in Colorado Springs (ground zero for whats left of the Ken Wilber crowd). These times do not call for drum circles. Time would be better spent learning perimeter defense and small group tactics.

A lot of us new age type boomers will still be content to have our drum circles and human potential retreats, and celebrating the pure, in the perhaps vain hope that our paradigm is still "new". Meanwhile you Xers can get your tactics ready, and I'm sure you will. But last I heard Colorado Springs is the home of the religious right crowd, not the Ken Wilber crowd.

Originally Posted by Einzige

I have previously argued that the Millennial Saeculum was a Mega-Awakening. I was wrong. I now believe it to have been a Mega-Unraveling, but one taking place in a kind of Giga-High, assuming such things exist.

Accordingly, my outlook for the future - indeed, for the next century and a half - has gone from bleakly optimistic to pitch-black. Yet paradoxically, the immediate future will probably be... alright.

If the Mega-Cycle theory holds good, and we are in an Unraveling-Crisis, then my guess is that nothing substantial will change for the rest of the Millennial Saeculum, and that the next High (in my view, a High-Crisis-High) will begin, not with a bang, but a whimper.

I do not see any equivalent to Hiroshima and Nagasaki on our horizon, no Soviet flag rising over the Reichstag. Very probably we will sort of slide into the High with the current social order essentially unchanged - after all, what is an Unraveling if not a period of essential stasis? Quite probably many of you are going to come to see that there was no real social moment, nothing to point to and say, "see! that's when we transitioned out of the Crisis!", and accordingly come to doubt or disbelieve in the Theory.

That said, I expect things to marginally improve in the twenties and thirties, so that, like an exterior renovation to a building with a decaying superstructure, we come to accept that all is well and we've moved out of the Crisis. This is our "High-Crisis-High", a faint, glowing light in a snowstorm. Very probably the institutional abuses we've come to accept in the past Awakening, Unraveling and Crisis will be normalized; the mood will be claustrophobic and, if not dystopian, then negative-utopian.

The High-Crisis-Awakening (mid-2040s-early 2060s) will hit like a bolt from the blue, as befitting a High-Crisis-Awakening. It will be my Dark Awakening: the recognition that the world is ending will pave the way for a funerary march for modernity. All hitherto existing values - Christianity, Enlightenment rationalism, bourgeois individualism - will have proven themselves false. We will collectively retreat into the occult and into nihilism.

The High-Crisis-Unraveling (mid-2060s-early 2080s?) will be a downward spiral into oblivion. At this point in time, whatever social problems remain left over from the Millennial Saeculum will spill over into a general social deterioration. If the internal combustion engine is still the primary form of powered transportation for the majority of the population - as I expect it to be, economic growth having long ago ceased to bring about a mass proliferation of new technologies - this will probably be the time that the physical limits of oil production begin to be hit. "Peak oil", so long threatened by visionaries in the Millennial Saeculum, becomes a hard and harsh reality, ushering in the

High-Crisis-Crisis (late-2080s-early 2100s): These decades of darkness will sound the death bell for the kind of society established on the American continent in 1776 and in Europe in the 1790s. Take your favorite post-apocalyptic film or novel and apply it - it'll probably fit.

Sounds dire, right? I suppose it is. But that's alright - because, by 2112 or so, humanity will have passed into the greatest period of its existence to date: a Giga-Awakening.

It's difficult for me to imagine an Awakening-High-High. I'm picturing something very bucolic and springlike, but also sparse and spartan - perhaps a depopulation in the last Crisis to a sustainable level of a few billion people.

Anyone wanna take it from there? All I know is that I wish I hadn't been born until 2500 or so, when, by this (admittedly vastly simplified system), humanity should be experiencing an Awakening-Awakening-Awakening. Can anyone imagine that? I would give everything to experience such an Awakening. I imagine it would vastly outstrip even Eric The Green's wildest fantasies.

That's five Awakenings from the next one. Alas, alack.

For now, though, the twenty-first century with be bitter and brutal where it's not stagnant and complacent, and the first half of the twenty-second will be desolate and mournful. Once that Awakening-High-Awakening hits in the 2150s, though, things should be good for a very long time thereafter.

Based on the double rhythm:

1. Millenial 4T

2. 1T

3. 2T - probable type, Apollo

4. 3T

5. Projected Crisis of 2100

6. 1T

7. 2T - Probable type, Dionysus.

Originally Posted by Kepi

Eingize, I think you should probably take a walk outside of white guy land for a couple of reasons. The first is that I don't really see a lot of white people having kids, and the ones that are, aren't letting into your philosophical direction. Why is that relevant? Well, Because that's where people's values really have their starting point. It's what people react to. And here in the US, what really shows up is the people who go on weird tangents don't propagate nearly as well as just straight up mainline, traditional people. And these kids who grow up in normal, mainline, traditional homes they grow up and respond to their upbringing.

So what you're saying might be true for oddball white people, but looking at them from a statistical stand point, they're increasingly making themselves irrelevant simply by not having any kids and therefore removing themselves from having points of contact with greater society.

So the people who ate going to replace us (us being white people), they don't give a shit about our stuff. They're growing up in normal, traditional and mainline churches, and they're responding to their place in our world. What you're seeing is through the lense of the of the failures of the 2T, and part of that failure is the failure to propagate amongst the future generation. ZPG loons, esoteric mystics from a hodgepodge religious background, Satanists, atheists, agnostics... all these things? They're dying out. They're dying out because if you're not breeding, you're not raising the people who will ultimately judge to be worth passing on to the next generation.

So, I agree this might be the immediate 1T future for a largish subset of white folks, but that has to be in the context of a reality where they are ever increasingly irrelevant, disappearing, and being pushed out of the view of normal ass kids growing up in a normal ass boring society, and they're what matters. Do you really think those kids are going to care about Marilyn Manson or Trent Reznor? I mean younger Millennials barely care. Hell, when you really look at it, that millennial cusper mall goth that constituted the core audience of either artist at the height of their popularity was maybe, what? One out of 20 people in their age group? And that's probably being pretty generous.

Nobody cares about the cave dwelling hermit with mysteries and some hidden truth in most times in history. He dies alone in his cave, and in 500 years the progenitors of the world that ignored him build a strip mall over his cave as a testament to his continued irrelevance to them. That's really how this works. In order to further a value set connections must be made within the greater society which allows for that.

Increasingly white people in general have said, "no thanks, let's not renew the subscription on our future," and that means it's our caves that will be built over.

Great points. From my point of view, a true High for me (a Black guy) will hit once true equality happens and I believe that my 3 boys (2 now and one on the way) will have a bright future.

So I guess I'm not looking at some of the points that maybe a White citizen is looking at.