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Thread: We're Not Weimar Germany, Nor Is Trump Hitler, but... - Page 4







Post#76 at 08-23-2015 10:12 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Classic-X'er View Post
I'd rather elect an ultimate insider who knows how to play the game with politicians and get what he wants who places America first in the greater scheme of things than some liberal chump who mesmerizes people with lofty ideals and upper end language and largely unfunded promises who doesn't quite get where he lives and has a hard time relating to average Americans.

.... and the sheeple get in line.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#77 at 08-24-2015 12:20 AM by Classic-X'er [at joined Sep 2012 #posts 1,789]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
.... and the sheeple get in line.
..... and the sheeple get in line on the other side as well.







Post#78 at 08-24-2015 01:33 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Classic-X'er View Post
I'd rather elect an ultimate insider who knows how to play the game with politicians and get what he wants who places America first in the greater scheme of things than some liberal chump who mesmerizes people with lofty ideals and upper end language and largely unfunded promises who doesn't quite get where he lives and has a hard time relating to average Americans.
How do you know Trump places America first? How do you know what he "places," anywhere?

It is obvious that what Mr. Trump places first, is Mr. Trump. And he isn't running against Obama. But no, I don't expect you to vote for "some liberal chump." But are you really going to vote for that Trump chump?

(thanks for the softball.....)
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#79 at 08-24-2015 03:15 AM by Felix5 [at joined Jul 2011 #posts 2,793]
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To no small extent, it is cultural affinity. Think of the Bush II campaign that targeted people who attend NASCAR races. What does NASCAR have to do with public administration? Nothing. But the demographics of NASCAR fans well fit the current Republican Party. White, heavily-rural or with a strong rural color to their culture, working-class, corporate-friendly, distrustful of high levels of intellect, homespun, conventional? What does that have to do with good public policy? Nothing. But it is good for finding people resentful toward successful minorities of every kind including people who live 'alternative lifestyles'.
People want someone that they can identify themselves through. It's a case of a weak identity which many people in America seem to have. I think it's terribly insecure that anyone would wish to know whether Bush attended NASCAR...or that he would assume anyone cared. The truth of the matter is that a whole bunch of people do care if the president likes football compared to art museums.

Size of a population is not enough. It's a good thing that America has so much cultural diversity. Much of this is tied to ethnic diversity. People can often re-invent themselves if they dislike the narrow community whence they came and like another community better.
I think the Irish had lost a lot in their identity at that point. Many didn't remember Ireland and were second or even third generation Irish. All they had known was the poverty of America's slums in the five points. Men didn't want to go to war and the wealthy could have paid their way out. So a lot of the poor Irish were essentially forced to go to a war they didn't create over something they didn't care about. It reminds me a great deal of the anger we're seeing in the white middle class today. It's highly misplaced and very frightening, with a shocking amount of xenophobia. The one aspect that helps me sleep at night, is that it's not quite as unified.

Maybe much of the problem is that we have become so reliant upon electronic entertainments that we have lost the ability to entertain (and more importantly, enlighten) ourselves. And, yes, if you want the glass of milk that you carted off from Wal*Mart in your mass-produced car.... someone had to milk the cow. Someone had to mine the coal and iron ore that made possible the steel in your car and the refrigerator in your kitchen. Someone had to forge the components of your car in a foundry. Someone had to get the oil that became the plastic container of your milk. Someone had to build the store where you shopped. Someone had to pave the highway that you drove upon. All of that work is hard, dirty, and often dangerous work. Someone had to do the numbing boredom of running a cash register at the Wal*Mart.
Well, yes I know because I work in retail and it doesn't look like I'll ever move upward in life at the moment. It's more than just boredom though. Cashiers are regularly abused by customers and their managers. They are overworked (working 14 hours in one day with only one half hour break), and underpaid (making 9 bucks an hour in CT doesn't even begin to pay rent), and unappreciated (The customer has not once ever been told to put themselves in our point of view.) They get mad when you run toward the break room instead of answering their question, but they don't seem to realize that you have been standing for 11 hours and cracking jokes with your coworkers is the one thing that keeps you sane.

I think it goes deeper. We are so used to our creature comforts on a subconscious level, when someone takes them away we resort to a child like state. I mean there is an entire generation of elders who literally don't remember a time before wonderbread sandwiches for school. Wonderbread is ready made, sliced bread! No one even had to slice it for them. Of course, not every baby boomer had such an easy life, but their lives were never plagued by hunger, filth, and disease like many people living in the early 20th century knew all too well.

My parents were born and raised in the suburbs and they always looked at it as their birth right. I was not and am grateful just to have my part time, minimum wage job in retail. I do not expect that I should have a house in the suburbs nor do I really care. The most I ask is the ability to support myself one day, as in be able to afford cheap rent. I know how to make food last, I know how to budget and conserve my water and electricity.

Today we have milking machines and so I don't really think the amount of work that goes into milking is nearly as rigorous as the manufacturing. Coal on the other hand...that's probably the scariest job you could ever end up in.







Post#80 at 08-24-2015 03:21 AM by Felix5 [at joined Jul 2011 #posts 2,793]
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The illegal aliens at least work. The dopers quickly lose their jobs and get busted when they shoplift or write hot checks.
Most of them end up on welfare, which they sell for cash to get their dope. They use cashback to get cash from food stamps and use that for dope, or sell food stamps for cash. It's kind of pathetic. Of course it's not just white people, I think it's spreading to the suburbs.

I despise the tradition in which I was brought up. Had I ever married I would have married out of a tradition that offers few attractions. If you think that German-Americans generally enjoy wall-to-wall classical music and know their Goethe -- think again.
How could you not love classical music? Talk about alternative today...the classical music audience has dwindled do low that I don't even know how it supports itself anymore. If you want something that is traditional for young people today, go listen to some mindless club music, become an alcoholic, and take pride in your lack of knowledge and culture.

Of course, from a working class perspective, classical music is my alternative.







Post#81 at 08-24-2015 03:23 AM by Felix5 [at joined Jul 2011 #posts 2,793]
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How do you know Trump places America first? How do you know what he "places," anywhere?

It is obvious that what Mr. Trump places first, is Mr. Trump. And he isn't running against Obama. But no, I don't expect you to vote for "some liberal chump." But are you really going to vote for that Trump chump?

(thanks for the softball.....)
Wow, I think this is probably the most intelligent thing you've said here. Mr Trump suffers from narcissistic personality disorder. For anyone who honestly believes his empty phrases, I feel truly sorry for you. Mr Trump is everything that is horrible about America.







Post#82 at 08-24-2015 05:08 AM by Felix5 [at joined Jul 2011 #posts 2,793]
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I don't know what kind of world that you want for your children and your children's children. Do you want a world that the term illegal is ignored, no longer matters and is no longer addressed?
But you are not taking into account the fact that immigration is dwindling. Fertility rates in Latin America have dropped significantly, meaning much less immigration. Go back to the 20s and 30s in America, did we ever see any immigration movement similar to the turn of the century? Only in the 80s and 90s did we see such a massive migration of people.

A world where a word like citizenship no longer matters and is considered meaningless.

If it didn't matter then we wouldn't be having this conversation.







Post#83 at 08-24-2015 08:52 AM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Felix5 View Post
People want someone that they can identify themselves through. It's a case of a weak identity which many people in America seem to have. I think it's terribly insecure that anyone would wish to know whether Bush attended NASCAR...or that he would assume anyone cared. The truth of the matter is that a whole bunch of people do care if the president likes football compared to art museums.
Indeed whether the President prefers watching football or attending art museums is one of the least important aspects of what is better for us. We need someone who knows the economic, diplomatic, and military realities and has the capacity to change directions when those realities change. Someone with a canned solution for everything might get along OK for a while, but when those realities change so must the response. It is also essential that the President have the capacity to convince people to change their ways when the basic realities change and bring out the best in human nature. Such is not greed, anger, sadism, fear, or complacency.

So let me say what I can about Reagan -- he badly fit my ideological values, but at least he could get people to do things that were not what they wanted at the time. Contrast Dubya, who appealed to what people wanted at the moment and could not think beyond the set values of those who voted for him. When I contrast Dubya to other Presidents (he was a disaster) I contrast him to other Republicans -- and by that standard he was terrible. We do not need another Dubya as President, and if I saw a Democrat with much the same faults I would be appalled. Maybe the Republicans could elect another Reagan if they had one. They don't. They have all too many who have no clue that Dubya was a failure aside from not going even further in his direction.


I think the Irish had lost a lot in their identity at that point. Many didn't remember Ireland and were second or even third generation Irish. All they had known was the poverty of America's slums in the five points. Men didn't want to go to war and the wealthy could have paid their way out. So a lot of the poor Irish were essentially forced to go to a war they didn't create over something they didn't care about. It reminds me a great deal of the anger we're seeing in the white middle class today. It's highly misplaced and very frightening, with a shocking amount of xenophobia. The one aspect that helps me sleep at night, is that it's not quite as unified.
At or near the social bottom they were competing with free blacks in Northern cities. Add to that, the American Civil War was literally a rich man's war and a poor man's fight.... which meant that Irish-Americans were the fighters to a large extent. The Irish-Americans at the least spoke undeniable English, if with a brogue that they tried to lose quickly. They also looked like English-Americans and German-Americans.

The worst ethnic conflicts are poor vs. poor. Today poor white people see blacks and Latinos often doing as well as themselves if not better and think that something is wrong. They don't see what is right with those non-white minorities showing some initial success, like ability and a strong work ethic. The white middle class may say of successful blacks, Asians, and Latinos that if they do right they are fine (but perhaps with the admonition to their kids, "Don't marry one of them")... but accept the competition. If you can't beat them, let them be partners in the American Dream.

Well, yes I know because I work in retail and it doesn't look like I'll ever move upward in life at the moment. It's more than just boredom though. Cashiers are regularly abused by customers and their managers. They are overworked (working 14 hours in one day with only one half hour break), and underpaid (making 9 bucks an hour in CT doesn't even begin to pay rent), and unappreciated (The customer has not once ever been told to put themselves in our point of view.) They get mad when you run toward the break room instead of answering their question, but they don't seem to realize that you have been standing for 11 hours and cracking jokes with your coworkers is the one thing that keeps you sane.
Retail was my first lasting job out of college -- and I found myself ill-prepared for the sheer nastiness of the business. I saw the hypocrisy of expecting people to be clothing-rich but otherwise poor in a business that paid a few cents over the federal minimum wage. I saw a company that insisted upon ferocious competition among clerks yet failed to reward it. I saw plenty of people who were there because they did not want to be a secretary -- and they ended up as secretaries and recognized how great secretaries have it. 9 to 5 at the least allows one to have a life off the job. Some did not want to work in a factory and ended up in a factory. Some did not want to drive a truck and found truck driving not so bad after all.

I think it goes deeper. We are so used to our creature comforts on a subconscious level, when someone takes them away we resort to a child like state. I mean there is an entire generation of elders who literally don't remember a time before wonderbread sandwiches for school. Wonderbread is ready made, sliced bread! No one even had to slice it for them. Of course, not every baby boomer had such an easy life, but their lives were never plagued by hunger, filth, and disease like many people living in the early 20th century knew all too well.
I question whether life was so great for young adults in the early 1980s, Boom or X, unless they had connections. Sure, the entertainment was good -- but you can't eat entertainment. Career ladders went from unlimited in theory as for the GIs and Silent to very short. The bureaucratic elites sought to have people to compete for who would suffer the most for the least and still keep the "happy-to-serve-you" smile that we see in corporate chain restaurants among the wait staff. The GIs and the early-wave Silent saw improvement in their lives. Boomers and X saw little of the sort. Got some imagination, creativity, and intelligence that makes you fit for better? Tough -- just put up with the nastiness, and drown your mind in televised sports and vapid sitcoms, and drown your sorrows in mass-market beer.

My parents were born and raised in the suburbs and they always looked at it as their birth right. I was not and am grateful just to have my part time, minimum wage job in retail. I do not expect that I should have a house in the suburbs nor do I really care. The most I ask is the ability to support myself one day, as in be able to afford cheap rent. I know how to make food last, I know how to budget and conserve my water and electricity.
We will need to undo the atomization of American life before things get better. The economic elites like things this way. Of course -- things looked great from the palaces and mansions on the brink of 1789 and 1917. Sybaritic excess does nothing to improve the economic elites of America -- and it blinds those elites to the sheer nastiness of life fo the common man. In the end it is the common man who decides whether things are tolerable or otherwise.

Today we have milking machines and so I don't really think the amount of work that goes into milking is nearly as rigorous as the manufacturing. Coal on the other hand...that's probably the scariest job you could ever end up in.
Maybe -- but such work has become as proletarized as factory work. Just because one of the machines is a cow does not make the work any less repetitive than work on an assembly line. But assembly-line work at least paid well by the standard of the time.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#84 at 08-24-2015 08:58 AM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Felix5 View Post
Most of them end up on welfare, which they sell for cash to get their dope. They use cashback to get cash from food stamps and use that for dope, or sell food stamps for cash. It's kind of pathetic. Of course it's not just white people, I think it's spreading to the suburbs.
It's when they shoplift or write hot checks that they often get caught, at least here, and they are found to be strung out. Or when they try to buy precursors for meth in multiple places (let us say Sturgis, Michigan; Angola, Indiana; and Bryan, Ohio) that they get caught. Michigan, Indiana, and Ohio police catch on when people go out of state to buy Sudafed -- if not as quickly as when one buys the decongestant from Wal*Mart, Walgreen's, Kroger, Rite-Aid, CVS, and K-Mart in the same week in the same town.


How could you not love classical music? Talk about alternative today...the classical music audience has dwindled do low that I don't even know how it supports itself anymore. If you want something that is traditional for young people today, go listen to some mindless club music, become an alcoholic, and take pride in your lack of knowledge and culture.

Of course, from a working class perspective, classical music is my alternative.
Colleges don't teach people how to live -- to find meaning in life -- any more. It's too complicated, and it would show how pointlessly awful America has become. Just wallow in beer but avoid meth and heroin.
Last edited by pbrower2a; 08-24-2015 at 11:13 AM.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#85 at 08-24-2015 09:01 AM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Felix5 View Post
Wow, I think this is probably the most intelligent thing you've said here. Mr Trump suffers from narcissistic personality disorder. For anyone who honestly believes his empty phrases, I feel truly sorry for (the deluded person). Mr Trump is everything that is horrible about America.
The first thing that I recognize, of course, is his extreme narcissism.

He is a crony capitalist and an ideological opportunist. He'd play with the Communists if such would feed his ego. Now he slums with the ethos of bigotry.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#86 at 08-24-2015 08:36 PM by Classic-X'er [at joined Sep 2012 #posts 1,789]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
How do you know Trump places America first? How do you know what he "places," anywhere?

It is obvious that what Mr. Trump places first, is Mr. Trump. And he isn't running against Obama. But no, I don't expect you to vote for "some liberal chump." But are you really going to vote for that Trump chump?

(thanks for the softball.....)
Well, if it ends up being Trump vs a liberal chump or Mrs. Affirmative Action (The wife of Bill Clinton who couldn't even be Secretary of State without f-n up majorly, Trump gets my vote. As far as my current support, Trump is going to have to prove that he has something more a far as substance to offer or deliver and he's not just a popular cheerleader. Right now, there's a handful of Republicans that I like as candidates. However, the most intriguing candidate and the candidate with the highest potential to me so far is Donald Trump.







Post#87 at 08-24-2015 09:27 PM by Classic-X'er [at joined Sep 2012 #posts 1,789]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
So let me say what I can about Reagan -- he badly fit my ideological values, but at least he could get people to do things that were not what they wanted at the time. Contrast Dubya, who appealed to what people wanted at the moment and could not think beyond the set values of those who voted for him. When I contrast Dubya to other Presidents (he was a disaster) I contrast him to other Republicans -- and by that standard he was terrible. We do not need another Dubya as President, and if I saw a Democrat with much the same faults I would be appalled. Maybe the Republicans could elect another Reagan if they had one. They don't. They have all too many who have no clue that Dubya was a failure aside from not going even further in his direction.
Everything you stated about Bush applies to Obama as well. Like Bush, Obama appealed to what people wanted at the moment and could not think or advance beyond the set of values of those he primarily represented and those who supported them. How can you see/say that so clearly about the one you opposed (hated) and not see/acknowledge that the same can be clearly said about the one you supported (adore)?







Post#88 at 08-24-2015 11:38 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Classic-X'er View Post
the most intriguing candidate and the candidate with the highest potential to me so far is Donald Trump.
Potential for what? Beating the Democrats? Maybe (though it's hard to conceive at the moment). Running the country? Fulfilling any promises or stated policies? Not a chance.
Last edited by Eric the Green; 08-24-2015 at 11:42 PM.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#89 at 08-24-2015 11:49 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Classic-X'er View Post
Everything you stated about Bush applies to Obama as well. Like Bush, Obama appealed to what people wanted at the moment and could not think or advance beyond the set of values of those he primarily represented and those who supported them. How can you see/say that so clearly about the one you opposed (hated) and not see/acknowledge that the same can be clearly said about the one you supported (adore)?
Mostly, in regard to values, people who voted for Dubya did so because "he shares ma valyas" (that's what his voters said). That had little to do with policies and programs, and more to do with irrelevant things like being a "Christian." Whereas values for Obama means priorities that involve actual policies and programs, such as carbon emissions controls and mileage standards, using diplomacy more than pre-emptive war, reducing wealth inequality, a fairer tax system, etc. And he enacted actual programs, like health care reform, rather than just appealed to slogans like "free enterprise," and "I grew up from the hedonist ways of our generation's youth," and "we're gonna get them over there before they get us over here," and "spreading democracy around the world" and other such nonsense to hoodwink the public.
Last edited by Eric the Green; 08-24-2015 at 11:55 PM.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#90 at 08-25-2015 12:25 AM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by Felix5 View Post
How could you not love classical music? Talk about alternative today...the classical music audience has dwindled do low that I don't even know how it supports itself anymore.
I think a big thing here is that classical music has become one of those cultural things that are deeply tied up with social class. In working class circles enjoying classical music tends to be looked down upon as effete, snobbish, and elitist.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#91 at 08-25-2015 02:22 AM by Classic-X'er [at joined Sep 2012 #posts 1,789]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Mostly, in regard to values, people who voted for Dubya did so because "he shares ma valyas" (that's what his voters said). That had little to do with policies and programs, and more to do with irrelevant things like being a "Christian." Whereas values for Obama means priorities that involve actual policies and programs, such as carbon emissions controls and mileage standards, using diplomacy more than pre-emptive war, reducing wealth inequality, a fairer tax system, etc. And he enacted actual programs, like health care reform, rather than just appealed to slogans like "free enterprise," and "I grew up from the hedonist ways of our generation's youth," and "we're gonna get them over there before they get us over here," and "spreading democracy around the world" and other such nonsense to hoodwink the public.
Didn't you vote for Obama because you believed that he shared your values? What's different about your reason than theirs other than the values and beliefs that were shared with the candidate involved? Ain't it the same reason as theirs? I don't think you voted for him simply because he was black, he was cool or he was the Democratic Party's candidate. Intelligence wise, you deserve more credit than those folks.
Last edited by Classic-X'er; 08-25-2015 at 02:29 AM.







Post#92 at 08-25-2015 02:40 AM by Classic-X'er [at joined Sep 2012 #posts 1,789]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
I think a big thing here is that classical music has become one of those cultural things that are deeply tied up with social class. In working class circles enjoying classical music tends to be looked down upon as effete, snobbish, and elitist.
Not to mention, the environment is pretty lame and its quite boring to watch and its hard to sit there for hours without falling to sleep. I had a blast at rock concerts during the 80's.







Post#93 at 08-25-2015 05:47 AM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Classic-X'er View Post
Everything you stated about Bush applies to Obama as well. Like Bush, Obama appealed to what people wanted at the moment and could not think or advance beyond the set of values of those he primarily represented and those who supported them. How can you see/say that so clearly about the one you opposed (hated) and not see/acknowledge that the same can be clearly said about the one you supported (adore)?
Values lock is the norm in America. The Right and the Left have little in common that they don't take for granted -- basically being in the same country.

The Right has a total solution for America -- 95% of the people suffering for the gain and indulgence of 1%, a culture predicated upon Christian fundamentalism, workers completely at the mercy of bosses and owners, education as a privilege offered only to those who are trustworthy due to their elite origins and narrow training for everyone else, wars for profit, and privatization of anything that can turn a profit for rapacious monopolists.

The Left by contrast is closer to the political center by international criteria, and it offers more alternatives.
Last edited by pbrower2a; 08-25-2015 at 05:56 AM.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#94 at 08-25-2015 09:27 AM by Cynic Hero '86 [at Upstate New York joined Jul 2006 #posts 1,285]
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Pbrower, the younger generations do not want globalism shoved down their throats. We do not want some bureaucrat telling us that islamist terrorist mass-murderers are entitled to the same rights to our courts when they despise all civilization. We demand that measures appropriate for this enemy be implemented, what enteprising Millies don't want or desire is human rights being shoved down our throats.







Post#95 at 08-25-2015 10:58 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
Values lock is the norm in America. The Right and the Left have little in common that they don't take for granted -- basically being in the same country.

The Right has a total solution for America -- 95% of the people suffering for the gain and indulgence of 1%, a culture predicated upon Christian fundamentalism, workers completely at the mercy of bosses and owners, education as a privilege offered only to those who are trustworthy due to their elite origins and narrow training for everyone else, wars for profit, and privatization of anything that can turn a profit for rapacious monopolists.

The Left by contrast is closer to the political center by international criteria, and it offers more alternatives.
Good summary
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#96 at 08-25-2015 10:59 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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08-25-2015, 10:59 AM #96
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Quote Originally Posted by Cynic Hero '86 View Post
Pbrower, the younger generations do not want globalism shoved down their throats. We do not want some bureaucrat telling us that islamist terrorist mass-murderers are entitled to the same rights to our courts when they despise all civilization. We demand that measures appropriate for this enemy be implemented, what enterprising Millies don't want or desire is human rights being shoved down our throats.
You'd rather that we become the mass murderers instead of the Islamists.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#97 at 08-25-2015 11:07 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Classic-X'er View Post
Didn't you vote for Obama because you believed that he shared your values?
I voted my values, yes; I voted Green.

My values can be implemented in actual policies that help people and other species. It was the policies that he proposed, that I support. Environmental regulation, health care reform and so on. I don't see that Mr. Bush's policies had much to do with the reasons his voters supported him. They could, I suppose; but practically there was not much he could do for them, such as outlawing abortion and gay marriage. Or maybe he avoided an affair with his intern, which was one of the chief reasons people voted for him. But what difference to the country does that make, in terms of policy? Or his voters like a strong, militarist foreign policy. But did they really want to be lied to about it; was that the value they voted for?

What's different about your reason than theirs other than the values and beliefs that were shared with the candidate involved? Ain't it the same reason as theirs? I don't think you voted for him simply because he was black, he was cool or he was the Democratic Party's candidate. Intelligence wise, you deserve more credit than those folks.
Well thank you And more credit too than those folks that voted against him for those reasons, or who voted for Bush because he was a Christian.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#98 at 08-25-2015 11:09 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Classic-X'er View Post
Not to mention, the environment is pretty lame and its quite boring to watch and its hard to sit there for hours without falling to sleep. I had a blast at rock concerts during the 80's.
But it's better to relax, work by and yes, to fall asleep by.

It is ironic that such a composer as Beethoven is considered effete, snobbish and elitist by some folks, when the whole spirit and attitude of his music is about the Revolution and the liberation of humanity.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#99 at 08-25-2015 11:52 AM by B Butler [at joined Nov 2011 #posts 2,329]
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Left Arrow Heavy Fireworks

Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
But it's better to relax, work by and yes, to fall asleep by.

It is ironic that such a composer as Beethoven is considered effete, snobbish and elitist by some folks, when the whole spirit and attitude of his music is about the Revolution and the liberation of humanity.
I'm not really into classical, and most of the classical stuff I'm into isn't effete, snobbish and elitist. The two discs at the core of may classic collection are "Heavy Classix" and "Orchestral Fireworks". Throwing out all of a school of music because one doesn't like some of it is like throwing out all Republicans because of some of them.







Post#100 at 08-25-2015 04:00 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Classic-X'er View Post
Not to mention, the environment is pretty lame and its quite boring to watch and its hard to sit there for hours without falling to sleep. I had a blast at rock concerts during the 80's.
Good reason to visit Croatia -- this ensemble.

"I love Bach! I love Bach! For his splendid counterpoint, for his splendid counter... I love Bach! I love Bach! For his splendid counterpoint, for his splendid counter..."

The first string quartet that I ever bought on a record... good choice.
Last edited by pbrower2a; 08-25-2015 at 11:00 PM.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters
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