The Revolution will come from the Right, not the Left. Why? because the revolution will be a reaction to the leftist neocons who are currently bankrupting this country. They have made a mess of the Republican party, and with the election of Hitlery Clinton will do the same to the Democratic party. The military and other similar jobs that require male disposability will be undermined by the MGTOW and MRA movements. Both of those movements are reactions to lefty-liberal-communist ideologies, and should hint at future political movements. With the domestic population forced to vote in fake elections, we will see a further erosion in participation. Voters understand the game: If you control the choices, you control the outcome. Elections are a fraud. Voter turnout generates the appearance of legitimacy, with no risk to the establishment.

After that....

Oh look it's a right-wing Xer militia lunatic. LOL.

Originally Posted by Dboy

The Revolution will come from the Right, not the Left. Why? because the revolution will be a reaction to the leftist neocons who are currently bankrupting this country.

Leftist neo-cons? Cons stands for conservatives. Leftists are not conservatives.

They have made a mess of the Republican party, and with the election of Hitlery Clinton will do the same to the Democratic party. The military and other similar jobs that require male disposability will be undermined by the MGTOW and MRA movements. Both of those movements are reactions to lefty-liberal-communist ideologies, and should hint at future political movements. With the domestic population forced to vote in fake elections, we will see a further erosion in participation. Voters understand the game: If you control the choices, you control the outcome. Elections are a fraud. Voter turnout generates the appearance of legitimacy, with no risk to the establishment.

After that....

I've seen that one.

Reagan is the worst fraud ever perpetrated on the people.

I agree; a rebellion could come from the right. I predict its defeat, however. Democracy will be reformed and revived in the 2020s, even despite the rebellion, and will be effective.

Originally Posted by Dboy

Hitlery Clinton

All that one needs to know, right?

Militia idiots maintain their fantasy because the US government has not unleashed a drone on them yet.

Originally Posted by Kate

Militia idiots maintain their fantasy because the US government has not unleashed a drone on them yet.

Hah, I had this thought while I was walking home from the grocery store this morning!

They also delusionally think the majority of Americans agree with them. LOL.

Originally Posted by Kate

Militia idiots maintain their fantasy because the US government has not unleashed a drone on them yet.

And the fact that people like you would probably LIKE to see a drone strike on the American population is why people like me keep training.

Unironic use of a "V For Vendetta" Guy Faulks mask.

LOL

This was specifically about the Bundy Ranch, because Mr. Bundy refused to pay grazing fees for using federal land. So I guess Mr. Dboy doesn't think there should be federally-owned land; that this violates the constitution. So Mr. Dboy, specify how this violates the constitution.

According to this article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundy_standoff
Bundy and his supporters don't recognize the US government as existing. So how can they pretend to respect the US constitution?

This is an unaccountable terrorist-supporting govt with no legitimacy. And yes, I agree with the statements of lack of recognition for this govt. They are currently operating outside the bounds of the Constitution, and are therefore not legitimate. The US govt is supporting Al-Qaeda (a terrorist organization), created and trained ISIS (a terrorist performance art project), bomb hospitals (a war crime), rely on Presidential "Executive Orders" bypassing Congress, claim "transparency" but engage in the opposite, manipulate the media in order to insure their compliance in propaganda operations, steal cash and property from citizens at will, create ludicrous "free speech zones" during Constitutionally-protected protests, engage in illegal domestic spying programs, trade agreements that act directly against the working class...and the list could go on forever really.

This is a time of ever-increasing police-power pressure against the population, and eventually something will "pop". It's impossible to know in advance what particular event will cause the "pop". One example would be Rosa Parks. If the govt had brought the hammer down at Bundy, then we likely would be in a civil war right now. The difference between the 60's civil rights movement and events like Bundy, is that we have well-trained former Marines willing to fight for freedom. As Hedges says below, the ruling structures have lost their credibility. People no longer have faith in the current system, but no new system is yet in view.

The above complaints are not a fabrication of the Right, both sides are aware of what's going on. Chris Hedges, speaking on "the revolutionary moment":



Obviously I don't agree with everything Chomsky or Hedges say, but they see the same thing the rest of us see. We likely disagree about how things will play out, which is fine. But we all see that the current ruling class is not legitimate; and we all agree that what cannot continue will not continue. The Left plans on living through whats coming by stealing resources from others. What they don't understand is that eventually you run out of other peoples money. The Right plans on living through what's coming by creating the future. I could very easily see the (right wing) militias protecting the (left wing) protesters like Black Bloc as this begins to heat up.

Originally Posted by Dboy

This is an unaccountable terrorist-supporting govt with no legitimacy. And yes, I agree with the statements of lack of recognition for this govt. They are currently operating outside the bounds of the Constitution, and are therefore not legitimate. The US govt is supporting Al-Qaeda (a terrorist organization), created and trained ISIS (a terrorist performance art project), bomb hospitals (a war crime), rely on Presidential "Executive Orders" bypassing Congress, claim "transparency" but engage in the opposite, manipulate the media in order to insure their compliance in propaganda operations, steal cash and property from citizens at will, create ludicrous "free speech zones" during Constitutionally-protected protests, engage in illegal domestic spying programs, trade agreements that act directly against the working class...and the list could go on forever really.

OK; still, you claim to uphold "the constitution" so you still support the US government in theory, since the constitution is the government.

What is legitimate? According to the constitution, the supreme court decides this. Not militia movements.

US supporting Al Qaeda? no, it doesn't.

Created and trained ISIS? No; at most you can claim that the illegitimate invasion of Iraq created the conditions for the rise of ISIS.

Since the hospital bombing was an accident, it is not a war crime. The USA has committed many war crimes in its history; that does not make it illegitimate; it makes it wrong in that instance.

Obama's executive order had to do with how to enforce immigration rules already in effect.

Engage in the opposite of claimed transparency? True; however again that may be wrong, and a dishonest statement, but it does not render the US government illegitimate. If every dishonest statement uttered by the government were to make it illegitimate, it would have shut down from the start and could never operate legitimately.

create ludicrous "free speech zones" during Constitutionally-protected protests; yes that is wrong, but a law suit needs to be filed.

manipulate the media? what government never does THAT??

steal cash and property from citizens at will? No, only if people don't obey the tax laws, which the constitution assigns power to congress and the states to pass or repeal.

engage in illegal domestic spying programs? Yes, so the people need to outlaw this. Republicans failed to take action in the congress when they could. So, get the ones who failed to act out of office.

trade agreements that act directly against the working class? True, but again, that's just bad policy. So, we need to change the policy. It's not unconstitutional. The constitution gives the government the right to set tariff rates.

This is a time of ever-increasing police-power pressure against the population, and eventually something will "pop". It's impossible to know in advance what particular event will cause the "pop". One example would be Rosa Parks. If the govt had brought the hammer down at Bundy, then we likely would be in a civil war right now. The difference between the 60's civil rights movement and events like Bundy, is that we have well-trained former Marines willing to fight for freedom. As Hedges says below, the ruling structures have lost their credibility. People no longer have faith in the current system, but no new system is yet in view.

That's all true, but Bundy is not a good example. He was clearly in the wrong and is a racist.

The above complaints are not a fabrication of the Right, both sides are aware of what's going on. Chris Hedges, speaking on "the revolutionary moment":



Obviously I don't agree with everything Chomsky or Hedges say, but they see the same thing the rest of us see. We likely disagree about how things will play out, which is fine. But we all see that the current ruling class is not legitimate; and we all agree that what cannot continue will not continue. The Left plans on living through whats coming by stealing resources from others. What they don't understand is that eventually you run out of other peoples money. The Right plans on living through what's coming by creating the future. I could very easily see the (right wing) militias protecting the (left wing) protesters like Black Bloc as this begins to heat up.

A left/right coalition of militancy is possible but may be quite difficult to sustain if the ruling power is ever overthrown. More likely, any successful revolution will depend on support from some legitimate armed forces of some kind. Otherwise it will be crushed. That's the lesson of history.

The taxing power is legitimate and constitutional. People owe something to the government; it's not "their money" and we won't "run out of it." When the government spends money on the right things, it stimulates more economic activity. But if people think the government is not spending tax money wisely, they get upset. I don't see the Right creating anything. But some people may be, such as communities that have their own currency.

I agree that the current ruling class cannot continue to rule. If something doesn't shift electorally by the mid-2020s, some kind of revolution or civil war is likely. It may be likely even if it DOES shift too. We may have to resolve things in some kind of win/lose decisive way. That's the tendency in late 4T times.

Originally Posted by Dboy

This is an unaccountable terrorist-supporting govt with no legitimacy. And yes, I agree with the statements of lack of recognition for this govt. They are currently operating outside the bounds of the Constitution, and are therefore not legitimate...

I'm not happy with things as they are, but they are well within the bounds of the Constitution. Since you disagree, you really have three choices here:

1. Work to change what you see as broken. Hard, but potentially doable. FWIW, I doubt you view has enough support to create change by any means, peaceful or otherwise.
2. Accommodate yourself to things as they are. That's what most of us do, since few of us think things are ideal.
3. Leave.

Your choice. Just don't expect a fourth option, where others convert the country to your idea of ideal at no cost to you.

Not that I think this can actually HAPPEN in this out-of-control criminal state, but...


4. Insist that war criminals be thrown in prison where they belong

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_HOSPITAL_ATTACK


The way forward is to withdraw support from the empire wherever possible; associate with like-minded people; train in skills likely to be useful for the future; study previous insurgent movements; other stuff.


As far as the idiotic "if you don't like it then leave"...what can I say; idiotic.

Dboy

It is well known that the intelligence apparatus of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization powers have a keen interest in armed extremist groups in the West. This is a long standing operation. Not only did the KGB/GRU/SVR/Spetsnaz/etc use false front recruiting and support techniques to become enmeshed with left wing radical groups and the KKK, years ago, operations have continued to the present. Sometime during the late 1980s efforts shifted focus toward so called "militias" and White Supremacist organizations. The rationale was these types of groups were the most likely to foment home grown terrorism, since the armed leftist radicals seemed to wither away. Nothing delights the enemies of the USA more than the prospect of Americans undertaking violence against our institutions and means of governance. Imagine a scenario where such groups succeeded with a revolution. The new power structure would last mere weeks. The SCO would immediately pull in all the pre-existing lines of control and would assume power without one shot.

I have my own radical prescription to proactively address this threat. The US Government should declare all out war against any and all such SCO agents of influence whether overtly loyal to the SCO or false flag recruited. They need to be rolled up with extreme prejudice and treated as illegal combatants. Maybe we should delay closing Gitmo, it may come in quite useful.

Originally Posted by Kate

Militia idiots maintain their fantasy because the US government has not unleashed a drone on them yet.

I think it's time. I'm not kidding. Instead of thinking of these goons as quirky idiots think of them in the same manner as the shadowy "volunteers" who "rose up" in Crimea and Donestk. They are either willing or duped agents of hostile foreign allegiance and to me, no different than Spetsnaz who slipped into the county as infiltrators. They are illegal combatants and therefore the Geneva Convention protections of regulars do no apply. Shoot to kill would actually be justified once a certain threshold was exceeded. That threshold would be an operational war plan (e.g. plans to attack government / military officials, law enforcement, political figures, etc).

Originally Posted by Dboy

And the fact that people like you would probably LIKE to see a drone strike on the American population is why people like me keep training.

Dude, you'll be fifty years old next year. You're more likely to die of a coronary infarction than a Gub'Mint drone.

Millions of Millennials will stop you. Against us you shall not pass.

Originally Posted by Einzige

Dude, you'll be fifty years old next year. You're more likely to die of a coronary infarction than a Gub'Mint drone.

Millions of Millennials will stop you. Against us you shall not pass.

I have to say, I am feeling more and more secure knowing that the rising tide of Millies includes not only some really great Communitarian activists (and hacktivists) but also battle hardened military veterans. We have less and less to worry about from threats foreign and domestic.

Originally Posted by Einzige

Dude, you'll be fifty years old next year. You're more likely to die of a coronary infarction than a Gub'Mint drone ...

Some years ago, I participated in American Civil War re-enacting as an exercise in exploring the experience of that time. Sure, there are a multitude of problems and barriers that keep one from seeing, feeling and experiencing the totality of the ACW soldier's life, but one does get a sense of the smells, the sounds, the social practices, equipment, physical challenges, etc. There are also the sensations of seeing the crazy-ass nature of standing fifty yards away from your enemy and then firing volleys of .58 or .69 caliber stuff at each other!

The folks that participate in this hobby often come with the same sort of mind-set that the "militia" wackos have, who I occasionally run into out in the woods here in the Rocky Mountain west.

A whole lot of them are fat, out-of-shape white guys who wouldn't last a week in any kind of harsh environment. I don't know what Dboy is "training" for, or how he is "training," but I'm guessing that a platoon of 19-20 y/o USMC guys would make mincemeat of his "trained" unit in half a day.

This thread is all kinds of goofy.

Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed

This thread is all kinds of goofy.

Yeah. I guess it's this or drugs.

ETA:

I half agree with this thread. Hilary is not a true progressive and...so if she wins she will probably carry on the same agenda that the Neo cons were for. The Neo cons and New Democrats are just sides of the same shitty coin. Therefore, there will be a revolution against her and it will be fueled by TRUE Progressive. Meanwhile, I'm sure some militia crazies will rise up and join the revolution too, because the enemy is the same.

You know, that I will agree with. THe neo-cons were historically Old Left people who jumped parties because they didn't like the counterculture and thought the Dems had gone soft on actual existing communism. Nor is there a great deal of difference between them and liberal interventionists. As an excellent example of this, Hillary protégée Obama's undersecretary of state in charge of riling Russia Victoria Nuland is married to lead neocon ideologue Robert Kagan, and Kagan himself has been fairly effusive at the thought of a Hillary presidency. How much daylight is there really between Hillary's foreign policy positions and those of most Republican candidates? It's a matter of spin more than anything else.

Some sort of populist reaction against this sort of thing seems to be brewing, though as others have recently pointed out (looking at you, Dave) it has yet to gel into anything coherent as of yet.

We'll see how the turning turns out.

Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed

You know, that I will agree with. THe neo-cons were historically Old Left people who jumped parties because they didn't like the counterculture and thought the Dems had gone soft on actual existing communism. Nor is there a great deal of difference between them and liberal interventionists. As an excellent example of this, Hillary protégée Obama's undersecretary of state in charge of riling Russia Victoria Nuland is married to lead neocon ideologue Robert Kagan, and Kagan himself has been fairly effusive at the thought of a Hillary presidency. How much daylight is there really between Hillary's foreign policy positions and those of most Republican candidates? It's a matter of spin more than anything else.

Some sort of populist reaction against this sort of thing seems to be brewing, though as others have recently pointed out (looking at you, Dave) it has yet to gel into anything coherent as of yet.

We'll see how the turning turns out.

We seem destined to meet Churchill's standard of doing the right thing after trying everything else first.

We can only hope that a special Providence still watches over children, drunkards, and the United States.

It is NOT the job of our government (or anyone’s!) to:

bankrupt the country and saddle our children with trillions of dollars of debt.
to subsidize and protect criminal corporations.
function as an international police force or assassinate anyone.
have the right to overthrow governments in other countries.
create and support terrorist armies.
support countries who terrorize and murder their citizens.

http://www.activistpost.com/2015/11/congress-fails-to-comprehend-criminal-cop-assaults.html

Today you think discussion of the truth is "goofy". Tomorrow you will realize the truth is obvious...this govt does not serve the people, and is therefore not legitimate.