Originally Posted by nihilist moron

Polls show that most Americans and Canadians oppose taking in Syrian refugees.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/564ceccee4b00b7997f90565
http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blo...six-weeks-poll

Yep. Because they're rational.

Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62

Huh?

There isn't that large of a differential in generation sizes.



1. Silent < Boom < X < Millennial.
2. The largest 5 year cohort according to the US census is 1961-1965. That would be the first 5 years of GenX. It's even larger than the largest 5 year cohort group of the Boom, 1956-1960.

The US population is always increasing (or at least has been, it can decrease). But relative to the generations around them, I'm pretty sure Boomers were much larger, when you control for everything else. I once saw a graphic that displayed it, but it was a while ago.

Originally Posted by Odin

You're not saying it because you know saying it is socially unacceptable, but deep down inside you and people like you would be perfectly fine with rounding up Muslims and putting them in gas chambers or ovens.

Uh huh. If you actually believe that, you need help. Deporting them? Maybe. If terrorist attacks within the US began happening frequently and severely enough, it's possible. I wouldn't blame them for considering it in Europe.

Meanwhile, Islamic terrorists are doing all the things your fever dreams about your fellow citizens contain, and then some. If you think they wouldn't exterminate the Jews given the chance, you're in Bizarro world. Your neighbors are the enemies, because of what you fantasize about them, but the people who are actually committing mass murder are poor, misunderstood victims. Good luck with that.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

They were the leaders. Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter. And they hung around with Reagan and Bush in the 3T. Although Carter and Bush were very late GIs, almost Silents, they both served in WWII.

The GIs were what the Boomers were rebelling against. So everything the Boomers hate is what the GIs stood for, roughly speaking. If you're a Civic, that's what you can expect from your kids' generation, if S&H are correct.

If you want specifics from the last time, the biggest area is what Eisenhower called "the military industrial complex". GIs got involved in the war in Viet Nam, and established a draft for Boomers that was the primary cause of their rebellion. GIs took it for granted, since they had all been drafted into WWII, that they should just repeat what they experienced. Boomers didn't want it. Having a draft for a war like Viet Nam was a terrible idea, and opposing that draft is the one thing from the 2T that I can sympathize with. Also the Boomer love of the arts as youth, although their leadership has produced horrible art.

I don't know how much it applies to New Zealand, but in general whatever the Civics take for granted, however they're programmed, that's what they unthinkingly perpetuate once in leadership, and Prophets rebel against it.

From what i have read nz also took part in the Vietnam war and they also protested it too (the boomers) My family is british and came here in the 70s so it is not directly my family's history but NZ was in ww2 and vietnam and boomers protested it violently. Boomers here too are artsy crafty too and some are about peace/love and one i can note is my previous art teacher who took me for cert of design before i started my bachelor degree. He calls himself a gnomologist. Travels the world with a gnome teaching people to Guard Naturally Over Mother Earth. hes a quirky fella and wonderful. Taught all of us young artists to get behind causes and harness our art towards our causes. What horrible art do you mean specifically? Yes I am a civic. It is funny, i see early millies '84 millies for instance who are from america as sort of displaying some xer traits. Such a contrast from nz millies who do not. I went to school with fellow '84 millies and we all were very different to kiwi xers. I reckon we are slightly ahead of you guys, or we are just influenced by a calmer culture. Our xers however are very rough so it makes me think we may be slightly ahead.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

Uh huh. If you actually believe that, you need help.

No kidding. Gas chambers *or* ovens? You have to use both. Otherwise it gets so messy.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

They were the leaders. Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter. And they hung around with Reagan and Bush in the 3T. Although Carter and Bush were very late GIs, almost Silents, they both served in WWII.

The GIs were what the Boomers were rebelling against. So everything the Boomers hate is what the GIs stood for, roughly speaking. If you're a Civic, that's what you can expect from your kids' generation, if S&H are correct.

If you want specifics from the last time, the biggest area is what Eisenhower called "the military industrial complex". GIs got involved in the war in Viet Nam, and established a draft for Boomers that was the primary cause of their rebellion. GIs took it for granted, since they had all been drafted into WWII, that they should just repeat what they experienced. Boomers didn't want it. Having a draft for a war like Viet Nam was a terrible idea, and opposing that draft is the one thing from the 2T that I can sympathize with. Also the Boomer love of the arts as youth, although their leadership has produced horrible art.

I don't know how much it applies to New Zealand, but in general whatever the Civics take for granted, however they're programmed, that's what they unthinkingly perpetuate once in leadership, and Prophets rebel against it.

I should give you credit for a more sensible post, FWIW. I'm glad you're calming down.

Regarding your last point, it's more complicated than that, of course. Did Boomer prophets rebel against the New Deal, for instance? Or against the Great Society instituted in the 2T that the civics, raised in the New Deal, perpetuated once in leadership? If so, of course, the Boomers were not the liberal generation you claim. It was a mixed bag; some boomers like me accepted the Kennedy-Johnson policies regarding domestic policy, but some rejected it in the Reagan era. Your point does work in regard to foreign and military policy, of course.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

I should give you credit for a more sensible post, FWIW. I'm glad you're calming down.

Regarding your last point, it's more complicated than that, of course. Did Boomer prophets rebel against the New Deal, for instance? Or against the Great Society instituted in the 2T that the civics, raised in the New Deal, perpetuated once in leadership? If so, of course, the Boomers were not the liberal generation you claim. It was a mixed bag; some boomers like me accepted the Kennedy-Johnson policies regarding domestic policy, but some rejected it in the Reagan era. Your point does work in regard to foreign and military policy, of course.

He calmed I believe because I admitted he was right. Helps to listen to others. Even though I do not agree to the tactic of identifying terrorists as i see it as a worrying development for another way of pushing a huge demographic away which could fuel ISIS I can listen and find something we can agree on. No good arguing just for the sake of it which is a huge difference between myself and my boomer mother.

Originally Posted by nihilist moron

Polls show that most Americans and Canadians oppose taking in Syrian refugees.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/564ceccee4b00b7997f90565
http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blo...six-weeks-poll

80 years ago the majority opposed letting in Jews fleeing from the Nazis, too.

Originally Posted by Odin

80 years ago the majority opposed letting in Jews fleeing from the Nazis, too.

Yup and Anne Frank I hear was one of them. We know her fate.

Originally Posted by Odin

80 years ago the majority opposed letting in Jews fleeing from the Nazis, too.

No no no. JPT is the Nazi. We need to keep those poor Syrians away from guys like him.
(If you want to employ Reductio ad Hitlerum at least be consistent.)

Misplaced post deleted.

Originally Posted by nihilist moron

Polls show that most Americans and Canadians oppose taking in Syrian refugees.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/564ceccee4b00b7997f90565
http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blo...six-weeks-poll

That George Worthless Bush was re-elected does not mean that the American People were right.

Was anyone concerned that among Vietnamese refugees might be carefully-hidden Vietcong or NVA agents set on destroying and degrading America?

America fouled up badly in Vietnam and in the Middle East. We make right with the people that we hurt by leading them to fight for us or who got hurt by ending up on the wrong side of a struggle that we promoted.

Originally Posted by nihilist moron

No no no. JPT is the Nazi. We need to keep those poor Syrians away from guys like him.
(If you want to employ Reductio ad Hitlerum at least be consistent.)

LOL. Well said.

Originally Posted by nihilist moron

No no no. JPT is the Nazi. We need to keep those poor Syrians away from guys like him.
(If you want to employ Reductio ad Hitlerum at least be consistent.)

Well, obviously JPT wants the Syrians to be kept away from him.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

The GIs were what the Boomers were rebelling against. So everything the Boomers hate is what the GIs stood for, roughly speaking. If you're a Civic, that's what you can expect from your kids' generation, if S&H are correct.

If you want specifics from the last time, the biggest area is what Eisenhower called "the military industrial complex". GIs got involved in the war in Viet Nam, and established a draft for Boomers that was the primary cause of their rebellion. GIs took it for granted, since they had all been drafted into WWII, that they should just repeat what they experienced. Boomers didn't want it. Having a draft for a war like Viet Nam was a terrible idea, and opposing that draft is the one thing from the 2T that I can sympathize with. Also the Boomer love of the arts as youth, although their leadership has produced horrible art.

The Blue Boomers pushed four issues during the awakening. Yes, we resisted the GI's domino theory, not wishing to apply it to the defense of an authoritarian regime. There was also civil rights, gender rights and environmental issues. I'd agree that both Establishment parties then dominated by the GIs bought into the domino theory. It is simplistic to disregard the other issues, or to say the GIs were entirely united on the other three. Civil rights and gender rights became progressive issues, while the environment was less than fully partisan. While the Blue Boomers had to push really hard to get the Establishment to move on all four issues, in time move they did, or at least the progressives did. The partisan divide on all four issues that began in the Awakening remain to this day.

Are you really against civil rights, gender rights and protecting the environment? Well, yes, I have often noted you are. You still seem obsessed with the Generation Gap at a time when it is no longer really relevant. There are progressives and conservatives among all generations at this point, though there are more conservatives among the old and the demographics are coming to more and more favor the progressives as time goes by. Often when pushing the old Generation Gap perspective, you end up advocating gender and racial prejudice. Still, you seldom state your bigotry so openly.

Selfish boomers not allowing Gen-X and Gen-Y to embrace nationalism is like if an ancient or medieval army was not allowed to pillage after breaking through the city walls. It is utterly unnatural.

Originally Posted by Odin

80 years ago the majority opposed letting in Jews fleeing from the Nazis, too.

No one should expect a more principled approach from the amygdala-dominated brains of today's Right - at the very center of their 'thinking' is the frightened coward. They are of the boisterous Party of chickenhawks whose solution to everything is the sophomoric certainty that sending other families' children to war will keep the big boogeyman at bay.

What's really funny is to watch their cognitive dissonance when you point out that all but one of the Paris attackers where EU citizens that can freely travel to the US at any moment. Note for them that all of the state governors, wanting to bar refugees, have tourist bureaus that spend a lot of time and money enticing EU visitors to come with pretty pamphlets of their iconic sights. Then watch their deductive skills as they first decide that we need to bar all EU visitors, then all foreign travelers, then all travel, then let's all just huddle in our homes with our guns a-ready to take on the zombie hordes.

Cowards tend to be stupid.

Originally Posted by B Butler

The Blue Boomers pushed four issues during the awakening. Yes, we resisted the GI's domino theory, not wishing to apply it to the defense of an authoritarian regime. There was also civil rights, gender rights and environmental issues. I'd agree that both Establishment parties then dominated by the GIs bought into the domino theory. It is simplistic to disregard the other issues, or to say the GIs were entirely united on the other three. Civil rights and gender rights became progressive issues, while the environment was less than fully partisan. While the Blue Boomers had to push really hard to get the Establishment to move on all four issues, in time move they did, or at least the progressives did. The partisan divide on all four issues that began in the Awakening remain to this day.

Are you really against civil rights, gender rights and protecting the environment? Well, yes, I have often noted you are. You still seem obsessed with the Generation Gap at a time when it is no longer really relevant. There are progressives and conservatives among all generations at this point, though there are more conservatives among the old and the demographics are coming to more and more favor the progressives as time goes by. Often when pushing the old Generation Gap perspective, you end up advocating gender and racial prejudice. Still, you seldom state your bigotry so openly.

Pretty awesome takedown.

I just find it amazing that someone so partisan (takes one to know one )as JPT can be so blinded by their generational hate to not consider the possibility that generation is not a monolith. Where does he think most t-baggers come from? (Note - that's not a birds-and-bees question. )

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

Saying that the GIs were about material gain and status seeking is a Boomer slander. My grandparents were GIs, and I remember the generation as a whole quite clearly. The reality is that they had been through hell, with the Great Depression and WWII, and what they wanted was security and stability. If that meant sacrificing airy goals, so be it. The Boomers were born into the security and stability created by the GIs (and Lost, it should be said, who led during that time), so they took it for granted and started chasing after Utopian fantasies of one stripe or another, while seeking self-absorbed "fulfillment" - which often means satisfying their selfish desires at the expense of others.

OK, so you had GI grandparents, and knew them in your youth and their elderhood. My parents were GIs, and I knew them when they were young and striving. GIs were about themselves. They focused on their goals and their wants, though they did take care of our needs. They tended to be bigoted and narrow-minded in general. They also brooked no opposition to their rule. Out of fairness, much of that behavior was defensive. They had suffered a lot and wanted to secure their future while it was still possible.

But don't make them saints. They weren't.

Originally Posted by Taramarie

yes well they arent and they need a safe place to go so the psychos do not wipe them all out. So someone has to take them in. Of course, I stated also we should put our own first too

There is a difference in kind between the typical member of <insert the minority category here> and the extreme elements of that same group. All extremists are dangerous. Look at the extreme Buddhists in Myanmar, for example. No groups should be pilloried without cause and none should get a free pass either. Zealotry tends to warp ones view of the world and other people within it. A true zealots can justify anything if he feels at risk or even just to advance his cause.

Self delusion doesn't seem to be limited by class, race, gender, education or any other variable.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

The problem is that we have no way of knowing which are and which aren't. At some point, that becomes their problem, not ours.

Yes, I've heard that one before: "Kill them all and let God sort them out." FWIW, that's been tried and found to be counterproductive, as well as barbaric.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

"They need a safe place to go". A government is supposed to make sure the citizens it serves have a safe place to go. In France, they failed. Do you get it, at all? Or is "being nice" to Muslims important enough that you're willing sacrifice a few thousand innocent lives of your fellow citizens to achieve it?

Anyway, you're in New Zealand, nicely isolated from all of this, so I wouldn't expect you to care. If you lived in Paris, you would probably feel quite differently right now. Which is how Boomers operate. As long as they're taken care of, other people can be sacrificed to their "ideals".

Everyone I heard interviewed in France, and especially in Paris, said they were not going to be intimidated. Almost all were opposed to limiting refugee immigration. None favored ending it entirely. YMMV.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

Yeah. Or all of the Boomers who ditched their families because they weren't "fulfilled", leaving a bunch of kids from broken homes or born out of wedlock, knowing nothing else, and economically disadvantaged because of it. That's Reagan's fault too, right? Everything is Reagan's fault. Despite him being consistently the most popular and successful president of the last 70+ years.

Popular, certainly. Successful, not so much. Clinton cleaned his clock in job creation and overall economic gain. Feel free to argue that Reagan, who managed to be President when the USSR collapsed, was a great foreign affairs guru. He gets four Golden Horseshoes for that one ... but that's all.

Originally Posted by Earl and Mooch

Getting back on topic - Delaware doesn't have Xer leadership to speak of, apparently.

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/...f09d5e4e156563

Virginia has a lot of GOP Nomads, and all of them are TPers or their allies. I'm not sure how this plays in the future. Millies are mostly Dems, if they identify at all, but they are irregular voters. That may change when they start to run for office in earnest.

Originally Posted by nihilist moron

Polls show that most Americans and Canadians oppose taking in Syrian refugees.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/564ceccee4b00b7997f90565
http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blo...six-weeks-poll

Most oppose paying taxes too.