Originally Posted by Eric the Green

I don't think all your posts are bigoted. This post wasn't. That doesn't mean there aren't other points of view toward this stuff. I think infidelity, divorce, open sex, wife swapping and using drugs are choices that people make. They go against traditional morality, and for most people traditional morality keeps people out of trouble. But some "swingers" think they can handle it. Free love was an experiment that some boomers and silents engaged in because they felt restricted and un-loved. It often was a failure, but it worked for some people too. Divorce allowed unhappy marriages to end, which was beneficial for children in many cases, especially if the parents found a better marriage later.

Some children were damaged in the Awakening. But others were damaged by more traditional upbringing too, and in other times. Silents themselves were horribly treated by their parents, from what they told me. They were oppressed, and sexually abused. They were violently punished. Lies and secrets abounded. So Silents rebelled. Many Boomers grew up in households where parents were distant and unloving, and forced to stay together in loveless and abusive marriages. Abuse and repression has gone on in American families for decades and centuries. If Xers turn out like the Lost, severe and restrictive parents, their artist children may be resentful and embrace free love and "liberation" like many Silents did. Perhaps progress happens and the spiral will be more gentle; we can hope.

Doesn't jive with S&H. Artists are sheltered and over-protected. Prophets are coddled and spoiled. Nomads are neglected and abused. Civics are trained and regimented. That's the way they described it, and it seems to line up pretty well with reality. The fact that Millenials have been trained and regimented into the decadent narcissism, Utopian fantasies and moral corruption of Boomers is a sign that the story is not headed for a happy ending.

Which goes back to the original topic of the thread. It falls to Xers to fix things before it's too late, and we're the only ones who can do it. Whether or not it will happen is an unanswered question. But Xer leadership is arriving. In politics, it looks like Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Paul Ryan, Scott Walker, etc. And as I said before, Trump is kind of an expression of "Xer-ism" in his own way.

Originally Posted by nihilist moron

I don't get it, either. Where's the openly stated racial and gender bigotry here? (How "crazy" BButler described it.)

I'll try repeating myself, but those who haven't got it at this point likely don't want to get it.

I see four major issues pushed by the Blue Boomers during the Awakening. Peace (opposition to the blind application of the Domino Theory), gender rights, racial rights and environmentalism. At the time, there was a Generation Gap. The Blue Boomers were for the most part young, the GIs were elders, and there was a strong coalition on where one stood on these four issues by age.

Now, JPT doesn't much distinguish between Blue Boomers and Red Boomers. He just doesn't like Boomers. If he dislikes everything the Boomers stand for he would be in opposition to racial and gender equality. Of course, you can't get away with saying that openly. There is always a degree of indirection involved. He will often disparage what the Blue Boomers stood for without explicitly stating what he is disparaging. However, it is often there if you look for it.

While at that time the Generation Gap was very age oriented, it has morphed in time to the Red / Blue divide. Militarism, equality and the environment are still partisan issues that divide the parties and the country. The Democrats have broadly embraced the Blue Boomer agenda, while the Republicans oppose. Age isn't totally irrelevant. The older generations tend to slant Red, the younger Blue. As voters age out, the demographic trends favor the Blue. Still, you don't hear "Don't trust anyone over thirty" anymore. There are Red and Blue voters in every age group these days.

And many among the red are still doing what they can to dismantle the Awakening pushes for equality, to quell affirmative action, to repeal Roe v Wade, to keep Confederate flags flying, to push militarism. Now, there are far far fewer lynchings and women don't have to resort to coat hanger abortions. We aren't going to go back to where we were before the Awakening.

But I'm not going to speak much about what the Red Boomers might want. I'll just repeat what the Blue Boomers demanded and what the GIs to a great extent eventually gave us. The Domino Theory was phased out, or at least the hot wars became cold. There were significant improvements in gender and race relations. We don't have two sets of bathrooms or coat hangers as medical instruments. There was a wave of new water treatment plants and stack scrubber installations that made a large first dent in the pollution problem.

Not all was fixed. Much more to do. Many new problems are visible now that we weren't aware of back then, the problem of failed states in the Middle East among them. Still, I am proud of what the Blue Boomers demanded and what the progressive GIs to a great extent delivered.

To some extent I can understand younger folk's dislike of Boomers. It took a lot of energy for the Blue Boomers to push for some very basic and vital changes. While to a great extent the Blue Boomers don't have the energy to push for more, (expletive deleted) if as a group we will allow the hard earned gains to be pushed back. The Red Boomers loved the flawed America that was, were dismayed by the America that was reborn, and learned to resist change with an energy and vitality that matched the Blue Boomers. The younger generations don't understand what it takes to move the Establishment, and are dismayed and distressed when some small echo of the Awakening energy and drive to get things done disturbs their video games. I don't really blame them. I haven't the energy to take to the streets and get things done anymore, either. I do, however, remember what it takes. If they don't like heat, no wonder they have avoided the kitchen.

Anyway, if someone wants to launch wild strawman attacks against all Boomers without distinguishing between the Red and the Blue, I'm going to define my view of the distinction between them and defend the Blue.

Originally Posted by B Butler

I'll try repeating myself, but those who haven't got it at this point likely don't want to get it.

I see four major issues pushed by the Blue Boomers during the Awakening. Peace (opposition to the blind application of the Domino Theory), gender rights, racial rights and environmentalism. At the time, there was a Generation Gap. The Blue Boomers were for the most part young, the GIs were elders, and there was a strong coalition on where one stood on these four issues by age.

Now, JPT doesn't much distinguish between Blue Boomers and Red Boomers. He just doesn't like Boomers. If he dislikes everything the Boomers stand for he would be in opposition to racial and gender equality. Of course, you can't get away with saying that openly. There is always a degree of indirection involved. He will often disparage what the Blue Boomers stood for without explicitly stating what he is disparaging. However, it is often there if you look for it.

While at that time the Generation Gap was very age oriented, it has morphed in time to the Red / Blue divide. Militarism, equality and the environment are still partisan issues that divide the parties and the country. The Democrats have broadly embraced the Blue Boomer agenda, while the Republicans oppose. Age isn't totally irrelevant. The older generations tend to slant Red, the younger Blue. As voters age out, the demographic trends favor the Blue. Still, you don't hear "Don't trust anyone over thirty" anymore. There are Red and Blue voters in every age group these days.

And many among the red are still doing what they can to dismantle the Awakening pushes for equality, to quell affirmative action, to repeal Roe v Wade, to keep Confederate flags flying, to push militarism. Now, there are far far fewer lynchings and women don't have to resort to coat hanger abortions. We aren't going to go back to where we were before the Awakening.

But I'm not going to speak much about what the Red Boomers might want. I'll just repeat what the Blue Boomers demanded and what the GIs to a great extent eventually gave us. The Domino Theory was phased out, or at least the hot wars became cold. There were significant improvements in gender and race relations. We don't have two sets of bathrooms or coat hangers as medical instruments. There was a wave of new water treatment plants and stack scrubber installations that made a large first dent in the pollution problem.

Not all was fixed. Much more to do. Many new problems are visible now that we weren't aware of back then, the problem of failed states in the Middle East among them. Still, I am proud of what the Blue Boomers demanded and what the progressive GIs to a great extent delivered.

To some extent I can understand younger folk's dislike of Boomers. It took a lot of energy for the Blue Boomers to push for some very basic and vital changes. While to a great extent the Blue Boomers don't have the energy to push for more, (expletive deleted) if as a group we will allow the hard earned gains to be pushed back. The Red Boomers loved the flawed America that was, were dismayed by the America that was reborn, and learned to resist change with an energy and vitality that matched the Blue Boomers. The younger generations don't understand what it takes to move the Establishment, and are dismayed and distressed when some small echo of the Awakening energy and drive to get things done disturbs their video games. I don't really blame them. I haven't the energy to take to the streets and get things done anymore, either. I do, however, remember what it takes. If they don't like heat, no wonder they have avoided the kitchen.

Anyway, if someone wants to launch wild strawman attacks against all Boomers without distinguishing between the Red and the Blue, I'm going to define my view of the distinction between them and defend the Blue.

The blindness of this guy is monumental. Probably the worst Boomer here, with the exception of "playwrite", except playwrite knows he's being a dirtbag and is proud of it.

Got news for you, pal. The Civil Rights movement did not involve Boomers. They were still kids when MLK marched on Washington. The closest you get is younger Silents like Bob Dylan, who was very young at the time. What happened when Boomers came along was things like the Black Panthers. And those things were unquestionably evil. I don't know if you have actually somehow convinced yourself that Boomers were involved in the Civil Rights movement of the early 60s, but if you have it supports the diagnosis of mental illness. It's like some kind of Walter Mitty fantasy.

As for the dogma of feminism, that has been so out of control for so long that only a small minority of young women are willing to call themselves feminists. Boomers can probably take some credit for the 50 million dead babies and counting brought about by Roe v Wade, and the innovation of chopping them up and selling off the parts. Congratulations.

More generally, your claim that you "know what someone else is thinking even if they don't say it" would be bad enough if it was just your self-defense mechanism against truth you don't like and want to shut out. Unfortunately, it is symptomatic of a larger, left wing, Boomer driven impulse towards thought control and suppression of speech that is this saeculum's equivalent of the tactics and dogma Orwell wrote about in 1984.

I apologize for being so blunt about it, but you leave me with no choice. You are either a delusional or senile old man, or you are a despicable human being. There is no other excuse for your statements.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

Doesn't jive with S&H. Artists are sheltered and over-protected. Prophets are coddled and spoiled. Nomads are neglected and abused. Civics are trained and regimented. That's the way they described it, and it seems to line up pretty well with reality. The fact that Millennials have been trained and regimented into the decadent narcissism, Utopian fantasies and moral corruption of Boomers is a sign that the story is not headed for a happy ending.

Not quite. I'd summarize it this way, what they said. Artists are sheltered and repressed. Prophets grow up under increasing loosening and encouraging of more freedom. Nomads are neglected and left to their own devices. Civics grow up under increased tightening and supervision.

No, abuse occurs in all times and places. There are advantages to each of the situations, and all generations play necessary roles in society. S&H books are not an indictment of prophets and civics. Far from it.

Which goes back to the original topic of the thread. It falls to Xers to fix things before it's too late, and we're the only ones who can do it. Whether or not it will happen is an unanswered question. But Xer leadership is arriving. In politics, it looks like Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Paul Ryan, Scott Walker, etc. And as I said before, Trump is kind of an expression of "Xer-ism" in his own way.

Those guys will only perpetuate the problems we have. And Trump remains a typical Boomer.

But, I understand you think more Reagan clones are the answer. Like I said, I don't want this forum to be an echo chamber. Viva la difference! (And Viva la France!)

Paul Ryan may be the most dangerous of all of them. Why? Because he sounds reasonable and competent. I said he was going places here, years ago.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

The blindness of this guy is monumental. Probably the worst Boomer here, with the exception of "playwrite", except playwrite knows he's being a dirtbag and is proud of it.

Butler and playwrite have eclipsed me as the worst boomer. I'm so proud.

Got news for you, pal. The Civil Rights movement did not involve Boomers. They were still kids when MLK marched on Washington. The closest you get is younger Silents like Bob Dylan, who was very young at the time. What happened when Boomers came along was things like the Black Panthers. And those things were unquestionably evil. I don't know if you have actually somehow convinced yourself that Boomers were involved in the Civil Rights movement of the early 60s, but if you have it supports the diagnosis of mental illness. It's like some kind of Walter Mitty fantasy.

Maybe some people just have some wrong info. That's not a mental illness.

In fact, though, the civil rights movement extended a couple of years into The Awakening before the Black Panthers took over. Boomers were involved by the scores in the Freedom Summer of 1964 and the voting rights marches in 1965. The march against fear in June 1966 was a boomer march, and it was a turning point. Both MLK and Carmichael were involved, and at the end, Stokely coined the term "black power." The black panthers sprung up shortly afterward. But black power also meant getting blacks into public office, which also followed.

More importantly, your claim that you "know what someone else is thinking even if they don't say it" would be bad enough if it was just your self-defense mechanism against truth you don't like and want to shut out. Unfortunately, it is symptomatic of a larger, left wing, Boomer driven impulse towards thought control and suppression of speech that is this saeculum's equivalent of the tactics and dogma Orwell wrote about in 1984.

What would you say about Republican efforts to keep people from voting?

I apologize for being so blunt about it, but you leave me with no choice. You are either a delusional or senile old man, or you are a despicable human being. There is no other excuse for your statements.

Nice apology (not). A bit over the top, methinks.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Butler and playwrite have eclipsed me as the worst boomer. I'm so proud.


Maybe some people just have some wrong info. That's not a mental illness.

In fact, though, the civil rights movement extended a couple of years into The Awakening before the Black Panthers took over. Boomers were involved by the scores in the Freedom Summer of 1964 and the voting rights marches in 1965. The march against fear in June 1966 was a boomer march, and it was a turning point. Both MLK and Carmichael were involved, and at the end, Stokely coined the term "black power." The black panthers sprung up shortly afterward. But black power also meant getting blacks into public office, which also followed.



What would you say about Republican efforts to keep people from voting?



Nice apology (not). A bit over the top, methinks.

Well, if he's going to call me a bigot/racist/xenophobe/etc who wants to bring back segregation, maybe even slavery, I'd say my response was mild.

Anyway, this may surprise you if your only source of information is the far left, but overwhelming majorities of the public support ID being required for voting, regardless of race, ethnicity, etc. It's a pure example of Democrats (who have always relied on the votes of dead people, fictional characters, etc., and would love to have illegal aliens vote) trying to manufacture an issue where none exists.

Ok I get it now. It's generational.
That at least makes more sense.

Just Passing Through, I imagine you would denounce this 1985 program as typical of the narcissism these typical Silent mentors developed in Boomers that has ruined our society. Or maybe you think his description of self-deprived people not having their own reality applies to programmed Millennials. Do you? Or do you relate to his recommendation of self-reliance?

The only things boomers believe in is Individualism, Multiculturalism, Neoliberalism, Indiscipline, Globalism and hedonistic globalist money-grubbing decadence. Throughout history only weak peoples believed these things.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

My parents are Boomers, and they were generally good parents. S&H requires generalization from the whole, but there are always exceptions. Mine have been married for 46 years now, and they are Christians who attempt to do the right thing. They did not participate in the "counterculture", and have disdain for those who did. That said, all 3 of their siblings are divorced, and have bad relationships with their kids (my cousins) to the point where they're barely on speaking terms in a couple of cases. All of my peers had Boomer parents, and many of the things I saw from them were unconscionable. Infidelity, divorce, drug abuse, all done right in front of the kids with no remorse. One of my peers from high school later recounted how his parents, in apparent belief in "free love" used to regularly have sex in front of them, with the doors open from their bedroom to the living room where the kids were watching TV, and participated in "wife swapping" with their "best friends" from down the road. They were what was known as "swingers". That's just one example of many.

I'm a fairly late Xer, just pre-Millenial (1975). Early Xers have Silent parents, younger ones have Boomer parents. Early Millenials have Boomer parents, younger ones have Xer parents.

What happened to some degree is that when society saw how badly children were being damaged and abused by the "Awakening" (go listen to grunge if you want to wallow in the self-loathing and disregard Xers grew up with), they started to have some remorse. They didn't want their children to turn out like Xers, so they started coddling them, while also systematically brainwashing them into a sanitized and "dressed up" version of the dogmas of the "Awakening". Those are the Millenials, of which you're an example.

There is definitely a difference I've been observing as the younger, Xer-parented Millenials have started to come of age. They're a little more skeptical and cynical, and a little more politically conservative than the older Millenials the Boomers fawn over. They're also, as befits children of Xers, less spoiled, and emerging into a terrible economy that makes their future look bleak.

To round off the subject, my brother has two young children who are going to be Artists. They are definitely being micro-managed, and I can already start to see some personality traits from them that fit. In a very general way, I can see some similarities between my 10 year old nephew and someone like John McCain, an early Silent whose birth timing would be analogous from the previous saeculum.

Holy crap some boomers did what?!?! I have no words i am shocked.

Originally Posted by B Butler

I'll try repeating myself, but those who haven't got it at this point likely don't want to get it.

I see four major issues pushed by the Blue Boomers during the Awakening. Peace (opposition to the blind application of the Domino Theory), gender rights, racial rights and environmentalism. At the time, there was a Generation Gap. The Blue Boomers were for the most part young, the GIs were elders, and there was a strong coalition on where one stood on these four issues by age.

GIs were the Establishment. They had cut deals to survive. GIs recognized that stark choices had to be made for the survival of the world that they knew so that the world was worthy of living in.

JPT doesn't much distinguish between Blue Boomers and Red Boomers. He just doesn't like Boomers. If he dislikes everything the Boomers stand for he would be in opposition to racial and gender equality. Of course, you can't get away with saying that openly. There is always a degree of indirection involved. He will often disparage what the Blue Boomers stood for without explicitly stating what he is disparaging. However, it is often there if you look for it.

The divide between Red and Blue Boomers is between those who see the favored traits of Howe and Strauss in themselves (education, culture, and principle) and vices (arrogance, selfishness, and ruthlessness) in the other. As a Blue Boomer I see my side capable of momentous thought, a connection to the greatest of achievements, and a capacity for moral discretion while I attribute to Red Boomers a narcissistic lust to be achieved irrespective of human cost. I can imagine how Red Boomers see my side -- "tree-hugging radicals who would deny jobs and starve children because they don't foster capitalism at its most rapacious" -- and themselves as exponents of a new order in which the Right People get what is necessary to allow the material satisfaction of the whole of humanity after an indeterminate number of decades.

While at that time the Generation Gap was very age oriented, it has morphed in time to the Red / Blue divide. Militarism, equality and the environment are still partisan issues that divide the parties and the country. The Democrats have broadly embraced the Blue Boomer agenda, while the Republicans oppose. Age isn't totally irrelevant. The older generations tend to slant Red, the younger Blue. As voters age out, the demographic trends favor the Blue. Still, you don't hear "Don't trust anyone over thirty" anymore. There are Red and Blue voters in every age group these days.

True. Some of the GI generation acquiesced in what Blue Boomers wanted. Feminism meant better prospects for a good life for their daughters. There were only so many material resources, and only one Earth. Red Boomers made peace with tradition that would make sense of reality and authority that they would inherit. Red Boomers put faith over science.

And many among the red are still doing what they can to dismantle the Awakening pushes for equality, to quell affirmative action, to repeal Roe v Wade, to keep Confederate flags flying, to push militarism. Now, there are far far fewer lynchings and women don't have to resort to coat hanger abortions. We aren't going to go back to where we were before the Awakening.

But I'm not going to speak much about what the Red Boomers might want. I'll just repeat what the Blue Boomers demanded and what the GIs to a great extent eventually gave us. The Domino Theory was phased out, or at least the hot wars became cold. There were significant improvements in gender and race relations. We don't have two sets of bathrooms or coat hangers as medical instruments. There was a wave of new water treatment plants and stack scrubber installations that made a large first dent in the pollution problem.

Indeed, "Red" used to mean "Commie", as in "Better Red than Dead" or "Better Dead than Red". Soon after the end of the Communist menace the increasingly-authoritarian Republican Party took the color Red as its color. Coincidence? Maybe nothing more than that.

We have people who now believe that no human suffering is in excess so long as it allows the Right People to get what they want.

Not all was fixed. Much more to do. Many new problems are visible now that we weren't aware of back then, the problem of failed states in the Middle East among them. Still, I am proud of what the Blue Boomers demanded and what the progressive GIs to a great extent delivered.

Boomers are getting old. They are now too old to do much by themselves except on a small scale. The youngest are now 55, and physical prowess drops off for most people. The oldest are already 72, when mental processes typically drop off for many very rapidly. They can no longer force change as they did thirty-five years ago.

To some extent I can understand younger folk's dislike of Boomers. It took a lot of energy for the Blue Boomers to push for some very basic and vital changes. While to a great extent the Blue Boomers don't have the energy to push for more, (expletive deleted) if as a group we will allow the hard earned gains to be pushed back. The Red Boomers loved the flawed America that was, were dismayed by the America that was reborn, and learned to resist change with an energy and vitality that matched the Blue Boomers. The younger generations don't understand what it takes to move the Establishment, and are dismayed and distressed when some small echo of the Awakening energy and drive to get things done disturbs their video games. I don't really blame them. I haven't the energy to take to the streets and get things done anymore, either. I do, however, remember what it takes. If they don't like heat, no wonder they have avoided the kitchen.

Younger generations don't give a d@mn for our nostalgia for our Boomer youth. X could never understand us. We didn't raise Millennial kids to be like us. Homelander kids lack the confidence in their ability to change an increasingly-dangerous world. Our Boomer youth culture will not be revived by young people until the young people are those who at most barely get to meet us. By then Boomer mass culture (likely sanitized of sex and anger by Millennial prudes) will then seem quaint as fin-de-siecle culture (like Aubrey Beardsley) was to Boomers.

Anyway, if someone wants to launch wild strawman attacks against all Boomers without distinguishing between the Red and the Blue, I'm going to define my view of the distinction between them and defend the Blue.

Good point.

We have yet to see which Boomer agenda (or composite of agendas) will prevail, The Crisis Era is far from over.

Originally Posted by Taramarie

Holy crap some boomers did what?!?! I have no words i am shocked.

Well, in the 1970's , under the rubric of Free Love, some Boomers and Silents really did do stuff like that. I can recall spouse swapping, parents flinging with random strangers , group sex, etc. IOW, JPT isn't making that shit up. I recall class mates discussing such events happening at their houses. For my cohort group, it was mostly Silents. Oh, and I had an interesting time when I found my dad's Playboy stash. Dad took me on a business trip when I was 14 and we shared a whole bottle of wine at a Red Lobster in Fort Collins CO. I just wonder what Millies think about a 14 year old getting smashed with dad. Mom's dad (maternal grandpa) also joined the booze thingie. At the Wichita Mountains, I just innocently asked him what his Coors tasted like. He said, "here, have one". Here's some more blast from the past 1970's stuff.
1. It was just fine if I dipped tobacco in school and had my Skoal can on my desk in full view of any teacher.
2. The high school had a smoking pit where students could smoke.
3. I got away with being blasted on booze/drugs because I had a 3.75 grade point average. The classes I took weren't the blow kind. I had Chem I, Chem II, math up to Pre Calculus, earth science, etc. Since the school system got money based on academic performance, hey, it's OK if Rags was a penultimate stoner.

Tyrannical boomers refuse to allow us to abandon the dead-end doctrines of the open society and "human rights".

Originally Posted by Taramarie

Holy crap some boomers did what?!?! I have no words i am shocked.

Well, let me tell you another one. A different friend had a Boomer father who was an Elementary School principle. He cheated on his wife with his secretary. They took nude Polaroids of themselves, which he kept in a drawer at home. The kids found them and saw them, the parents got divorced, and he married the secretary. Fun stuff.

This was a famous anti-drug PSA from the 80s, with an Xer kid and Boomer parent:



Of course nowadays, especially in places like California, parents who use drugs in front of, or with their kids are a dime a dozen. Look how far we've come. Boomer Progress! The "progress" being that now that ad is objectionable because it suggests drugs are bad.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

But, I understand you think more Reagan clones are the answer. Like I said, I don't want this forum to be an echo chamber. Viva la difference! (And Viva la France!)

Geez, Eric the magnet attracts another cause.

Originally Posted by Cynic Hero '86

Tyrannical boomers refuse to allow us to abandon the dead-end doctrines of the open society and "human rights".

Oh the Western tradition is under the challenge of this 4T. I see many a mile to go before a 1T becomes possible. So many that I will not attempt predictions on what kind of 1T I expect, except to say that I think it will likely feel austere to those expecting another Great American High.

Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62

Well, in the 1970's , under the rubric of Free Love, some Boomers and Silents really did do stuff like that. I can recall spouse swapping, parents flinging with random strangers , group sex, etc. IOW, JPT isn't making that shit up. I recall class mates discussing such events happening at their houses. For my cohort group, it was mostly Silents. Oh, and I had an interesting time when I found my dad's Playboy stash. Dad took me on a business trip when I was 14 and we shared a whole bottle of wine at a Red Lobster in Fort Collins CO. I just wonder what Millies think about a 14 year old getting smashed with dad. Mom's dad (maternal grandpa) also joined the booze thingie. At the Wichita Mountains, I just innocently asked him what his Coors tasted like. He said, "here, have one". Here's some more blast from the past 1970's stuff.
1. It was just fine if I dipped tobacco in school and had my Skoal can on my desk in full view of any teacher.
2. The high school had a smoking pit where students could smoke.
3. I got away with being blasted on booze/drugs because I had a 3.75 grade point average. The classes I took weren't the blow kind. I had Chem I, Chem II, math up to Pre Calculus, earth science, etc. Since the school system got money based on academic performance, hey, it's OK if Rags was a penultimate stoner.

holy shit!!!!! Well this millie is mouth dropped open shocked. Here in NZ it was no drugs, no alcohol, no cigs and no sex. Zero tolerance for any of that. When i was 13 and was offered some weed we ended up running away from school to the corner garden park just to hide from the school nurse to try some. I did not do it again but i was a curious kid. This was in 1998. We had her on our tail when we came back too. I had never done it before and thought it was highly amusing that we were in serious trouble. I could not stop laughing. So haha needless to say being a kiwi millie it was almost like being in a convent in comparison and this was not even a religious school. Culture told us to be clean of all that, that it was morally wrong and to be good kids. I am in shocked and oh yes i believe you guys. It sounds like some stuff i have read on what many boomers were like when young with the culture. I tell ya being a millie is like seeing moralistic mid lifers who are concerned with our behaviour and then you sift through their generations past and suddenly they morph into a creature i could never picture them as!

Originally Posted by herbal tee

Oh the Western tradition is under the challenge of this 4T. I see many a mile to go before a 1T becomes possible. So many that I will not attempt predictions on what kind of 1T I expect, except to say that I think it will likely feel austere to those expecting another Great American High.

If S&H were right, and if some kind of massive war is inevitable, it is absolutely clear that it will be Islamic terrorism that will be the cause. The only question is when it will ignite a full conflict, and whether it will result in yet another western occupation and re-shaping of the Middle East, or the collapse and destruction of Europe and the United States, and a new dark age for the 21st century.

I'm not convinced S&H's predictions about the future were accurate, though. They were certainly pretty far off about Millenials, unless they undergo a major transformation in their thinking.

Originally Posted by herbal tee

Oh the Western tradition is under the challenge of this 4T. I see many a mile to go before a 1T becomes possible. So many that I will not attempt predictions on what kind of 1T I expect, except to say that I think it will likely feel austere to those expecting another Great American High.

What western traditions? Your globalist humanistic society would have been utterly foreign to just about any westerner who lived prior to about 1900 or so, if not even as late as 1950.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

Well, let me tell you another one. A different friend had a Boomer father who was an Elementary School principle. He cheated on his wife with his secretary. They took nude Polaroids of themselves, which he kept in a drawer at home. The kids found them and saw them, the parents got divorced, and he married the secretary. Fun stuff.

This was a famous anti-drug PSA from the 80s, with an Xer kid and Boomer parent:



Of course nowadays, especially in places like California, parents who use drugs in front of, or with their kids are a dime a dozen. Look how far we've come. Boomer Progress! The "progress" being that now that ad is objectionable because it suggests drugs are bad.

omg traumatizing those poor kids omg so i take it some xers see the boomers who did this stuff as hypocrites when they started to tell us millies to not do it. Well, i would hope that the boomers who did do this learned and then decided to teach us what they had learned.

Originally Posted by Taramarie

omg traumatizing those poor kids omg so i take it some xers see the boomers who did this stuff as hypocrites when they started to tell us millies to not do it. Well, i would hope that the boomers who did do this learned and then decided to teach us what they had learned.

I don't know that Boomers told Millenials not to do those things. At least not a lot of them in the US. The culture, run by Boomers, certainly promotes all of it. Individual Boomer parents, of course, vary. As I said, mine were nothing like that. But that's what the "counterculture" of the 60s was all about, and the Boomers who participated in it, and that forms the basis of all of the modern left wing ideological dogma. Abortion, gay marriage, legalizing marijuana are central to their world view. In other words, "free love" and drugs, which is what the 60s were about for them.

They've turned their lifestyles from the 60s into an all-consuming political agenda. Maybe New Zealand is different.

Originally Posted by Cynic Hero '86

What western traditions? Your globalist humanistic society would have been utterly foreign to just about any westerner who lived prior to about 1900 or so, if not even as late as 1950.

True. As I said before, Boomers' capacity for self-aggrandizement (and dishonest propaganda) knows no boundaries. They state that the "values" of the 60s counterculture are "American values", as if George Washington would have supported their positions. It's a joke.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

I don't know that Boomers told Millenials not to do those things. At least not a lot of them in the US. The culture, run by Boomers, certainly promotes all of it. Individual Boomer parents, of course, vary. As I said, mine were nothing like that. But that's what the "counterculture" of the 60s was all about, and the Boomers who participated in it, and that forms the basis of all of the modern left wing ideological dogma. Abortion, gay marriage, legalizing marijuana are central to their world view. In other words, "free love" and drugs, which is what the 60s were about for them.

They've turned their lifestyles from the 60s into an all-consuming political agenda. Maybe New Zealand is different.

Well I dont know what boomers told millies in America but here oh yes, zero tolerance for any of the things I mentioned. My mother was funny on this however. She would let me have a glass of wine before school and gave one to my best mate (high school) but she would have lost it if i smoke did drugs or had sex. Had her own standards I guess. But when she started smoking i lost it because i thought, if it is bad for me, vise versa. I thought, act what you preach. She did not like being locked out the house and cigs flushed.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

I don't know that Boomers told Millenials not to do those things. At least not a lot of them in the US. The culture, run by Boomers, certainly promotes all of it. Individual Boomer parents, of course, vary. As I said, mine were nothing like that. But that's what the "counterculture" of the 60s was all about, and the Boomers who participated in it, and that forms the basis of all of the modern left wing ideological dogma. Abortion, gay marriage, legalizing marijuana are central to their world view. In other words, "free love" and drugs, which is what the 60s were about for them.

They've turned their lifestyles from the 60s into an all-consuming political agenda. Maybe New Zealand is different.

Hmm when it comes to the 60s here and politics well I would not be the ideal person to talk about that as my family was not here in the 60s so i could not ask them on this. In the 60s they were in aussie. But originally from England. I, like you would have to look it up. But politics here does revolve around kids and it is tightening. A few years ago they introduced for instance the anti smacking law. When i was a kid, it was frowned upon for a parent to smack a kid, and illegal for teachers to smack. Now no one can. However, politics is not as heated or as outrageous as it is in the states in comparison. Here, you barely hear of it.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

I don't know that Boomers told Millenials not to do those things. At least not a lot of them in the US. The culture, run by Boomers, certainly promotes all of it. Individual Boomer parents, of course, vary. As I said, mine were nothing like that. But that's what the "counterculture" of the 60s was all about, and the Boomers who participated in it, and that forms the basis of all of the modern left wing ideological dogma. Abortion, gay marriage, legalizing marijuana are central to their world view. In other words, "free love" and drugs, which is what the 60s were about for them.

They've turned their lifestyles from the 60s into an all-consuming political agenda. Maybe New Zealand is different.

I actually hear more of what is going on politically in America than i do in my own country lol