Originally Posted by Kinser79

In order to develop jobs there needs to be massive increases in agrigate demand, which autmation is not working toward. Furthermore, with raising the retirement age we end up with more older people working and a large unemployed group of younger people. I don't know if you've studied history in detail in relation to revolutions and civil wars but generally it is armed groups of unemployed young people who cause problems. Unemployed elders can possibly live off of saved resources or have the social capital to not require working. I simply see no benefit from raising the retirement age, but great benefits from stricter enforcement of the 65 retirement age.

-- expand Social Security, many Boomers would love to retire but can't afford to. Hell my friend's 75 yr old Silent Mom would love to retire but can't afford to. Bernie wants to expand Social Security, btw

Originally Posted by marypoza

-- expand Social Security, many Boomers would love to retire but can't afford to. Hell my friend's 75 yr old Silent Mom would love to retire but can't afford to. Bernie wants to expand Social Security, btw

Oh I'm in no doubt in agreement with you. You are quoting someone who has outright called for a basic national income for all people regardless of age. It should also be noted that other countries (Cuba for example) often include in their social security systems stipends for students to live on. No other industrialized country has the student debt problems we do.

Originally Posted by radind

My position is the the economics of SS need an increase in the retirement age. I don't see what that has to do with faith.

That is the problem. The economics of SS are such that so long as the US Federal Government issues its own currency it will never run out of money. You know because it issues it. Kind of like how the bank can never run out of money in monopoly--one merely starts writing numbers of pieces of paper (or more modernly on spreadsheets in computers) and the problem is solved.

That being said I stand by my position that the pay roll tax cap needs to be removed.

Originally Posted by marypoza

-- we need more job creation, but also to keep the 65 retirement age, & either a 4 8 hr day work week, 5 6 hr days, or 3 10 hr days. Or all of them-let each workplace use what works best. This will create job openings for Millies

Many places are already moving toward a 30 hour week due to Obamacare. Actually it is more like 28 hours. One of the stipulations in that law is that full time workers are expected to have empoyer based health care insurance, however, someone is defined as being full time if they regularly work 30+ hours a week*.

*note: only applies to hourly workers, salary workers are still getting screwed.

As such there has been a move to hire more people to work fewer hours. That being said it does not address the problem that people working those 28 hours per week do not have health care insurance which again is why I've long called for the reduction in age of eligibility for medicare to zero years old. I call it Medicare part E. E stands for everybody.

Originally Posted by Kinser79

Many places are already moving toward a 30 hour week due to Obamacare. Actually it is more like 28 hours. One of the stipulations in that law is that full time workers are expected to have empoyer based health care insurance, however, someone is defined as being full time if they regularly work 30+ hours a week*.

*note: only applies to hourly workers, salary workers are still getting screwed.

As such there has been a move to hire more people to work fewer hours. That being said it does not address the problem that people working those 28 hours per week do not have health care insurance which again is why I've long called for the reduction in age of eligibility for medicare to zero years old. I call it Medicare part E. E stands for everybody.

-- I agree with you there (another reason I'm voting Bernie) also the $15 hr wage. A decent working wage, a decent Social Security stipend so ppl can retire, health care, & shorter work hrs will go a long ways torwards full employment

Originally Posted by marypoza

-- we need more job creation, but also to keep the 65 retirement age, & either a 4 8 hr day work week, 5 6 hr days, or 3 10 hr days. Or all of them-let each workplace use what works best. This will create job openings for Millies

Yes, clearly we need people to work less hours to open up more jobs in the age of automation and outsourcing, and to keep the pay the same. Right now the wealthy hog all the profits of higher productivity. Raising the retirement age made sense for a while, since people are living longer; but now that the loss of jobs is endemic in the system, and the need is to create more openings, this seems no longer an option. To keep social security solvent, the cap on high incomes needs to be raised or busted. In an age when productivity is ever higher, and the labor market ever smaller, the benefits of automation need to be shared, not hoarded by those at the top. Everyone deserves the benefit of technology, not just the CEOs and speculators. Social security and other social programs are the only answer to automation. The trickle-down free market neo-liberal approach is not only just as reactionary today as it has been for a hundred years and more, it is an anachronism and seems doomed in today's labor market.

Right now social security offers a range of options; there is not one retirement age. I chose to take it about 6 months ahead of the official age, as it seemed to fit my situation better. The range of options is about 10 years; 5 on each side. That seems fair.

Originally Posted by radind

My position is the the economics of SS need an increase in the retirement age. I don't see what that has to do with faith.

Raising the income cap on wages that are subject to the FICA tax would be much more effective. Income is already skewing towards that end of the scale. That is where most income growth has been and likely to be for the foreseable future. But I guess that we'll have to agree to disagree on this.

Originally Posted by radind

We clearly need more job creation , but I am not in favor of early retirement. The initial SS retirement age was 65-by now 75 would make more sense to me.

Life expectancy has risen for the people who need SS the least, and remained stubbornly the same for the people who work hard physically and deteriorate at a young age. Raising the SS eligibility age just punishes the very people who have been punished by life ... hard working people who do work we need have done.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Life expectancy has risen for the people who need SS the least, and remained stubbornly the same for the people who work hard physically and deteriorate at a young age. Raising the SS eligibility age just punishes the very people who have been punished by life ... hard working people who do work we need have done.

That's a very good point too.

Use TRIZ to optimize the economy / job market for improved Social Security and Medicare revenue input.