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Thread: Interventions: Is it ever worth it? - Page 6







Post#126 at 02-25-2016 02:03 PM by Classic-X'er [at joined Sep 2012 #posts 1,789]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
I like taking their money.
The people who live in today's world, who have no attachment to pre-1971, are very aware of this.
Last edited by Classic-X'er; 02-25-2016 at 02:23 PM.







Post#127 at 02-25-2016 02:58 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Classic-X'er View Post
The people who live in today's world, who have no attachment to pre-1971, are very aware of this.
You're attached alright, you just don't know it. Likely don't have a clue what I'm referring to.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#128 at 02-25-2016 03:31 PM by Classic-X'er [at joined Sep 2012 #posts 1,789]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
You're attached alright, you just don't know it. Likely don't have a clue what I'm referring to.
What are you referring to? How am I attached? How does pre 1971 life relate to me?
Last edited by Classic-X'er; 02-25-2016 at 03:55 PM.







Post#129 at 02-25-2016 03:51 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Classic-X'er View Post
What are you referring to? How am I attached?
In 1971, Nixon ended convertibility of US Dollars to gold.

There's not a Rigthee out there that doesn't believe our monetary/economic system still operates as if there is a gold standard, and federal deficits, debt and spending are inherently evil.

Without that misunderstanding, there really wouldn't be a reason for the GOP to exist any more. Maybe a some sort of TheoCon/NeoCon combo party but that's about it.
Last edited by playwrite; 02-25-2016 at 03:53 PM.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#130 at 02-25-2016 04:30 PM by Classic-X'er [at joined Sep 2012 #posts 1,789]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
In 1971, Nixon ended convertibility of US Dollars to gold.

There's not a Rigthee out there that doesn't believe our monetary/economic system still operates as if there is a gold standard, and federal deficits, debt and spending are inherently evil.

Without that misunderstanding, there really wouldn't be a reason for the GOP to exist any more. Maybe a some sort of TheoCon/NeoCon combo party but that's about it.
I don't believe it operates that way any more either. Right now, I believe it operates however it thinks or believes it needs to operate in order to continue operating its own way and dishing out large scale financial benefits those who support it being operated its own way who want it to continue being operated its own way. The GOP doesn't exist anymore. The GOP just hasn't figured it out or come to grips with that reality yet. Haven't you've been watching the change that's happening on the Republican side? The GOP is being completely blown off and ignored by its voters.
Last edited by Classic-X'er; 02-25-2016 at 04:55 PM.







Post#131 at 02-25-2016 05:29 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Classic-X'er View Post
I don't believe it operates that way any more either. Right now, I believe it operates however it thinks or believes it needs to operate in order to continue operating its own way and dishing out large scale financial benefits those who support it being operated its own way who want it to continue being operated its own way. The GOP doesn't exist anymore. The GOP just hasn't figured it out or come to grips with that reality yet. Haven't you've been watching the change that's happening on the Republican side? The GOP is being completely blown off and ignored by its voters.
Watch and learn from them, it will come in handy because you baggers are next.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#132 at 02-25-2016 05:52 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Classic-X'er View Post
The people who live in today's world, who have no attachment to pre-1971, are very aware of this.
People would be wise to contemplate how America got through the last Crisis Era.

A hint: Jim Crow would be an improvement in racial relations if people then acted as Americans do now, at least politically.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#133 at 02-25-2016 09:35 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
It's not necessarily a question of who is loyal to whom. When genocide happens, humanity needs to step in. That's the case in Syria. I don't say with intervention, but just some support.
Why us? More to the point, how will we intervene in a positive way? It can't always be us, and our track record is poor in any case. We may do vastly more harm than good. In fact, it's almost a certainty. The Europeans, on the other hand, have a real stake here. For all practical purposes, they are being invaded. More to the point, they are already in the neighborhood.
Last edited by Marx & Lennon; 02-25-2016 at 09:37 PM.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#134 at 02-25-2016 09:58 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by MordecaiK View Post
In case you haven't noticed, Palestinians find peace under the international community's stipulations impossible too. Israel agreed to 99% of territorial compromises under Ehud Barak during the 1990s and Yasser Arafat had to say no or he would have been assassinated. Arafat's bodyguard said so in an NPR interview on, I believe The Story (WUNC) in 2008.

Palestinians have no incentive to agree to any sort of peace when the United Nations continues to subsidise Palestinians remaining as refugees (which takes up over 1/3 of the UN's total budget and gives the UN a constituency dependent upon it that it otherwise woudn't have. A real peace agreement would be modeled after the "two state solution" which separated Singapore from Malaysia to prevent Malaysia from having a Chinese majority. Chinese in Singapore got Singaporean citizenship while Chinese in Malaysia (and Hindus in Malaysia) got Malaysian citizenship. Both remained under British law while Muslim Malays fell under Sharia law (though not without the prescribed execution methods--Malaysia still uses hanging).

An Israeli version of this would involve a Palestinian state in Gaza only (which is twice the size of Singapore with 2/3 of Singapore's population and offshore gas reserves). Jerusalem and the West Bank are recognised as annexed to Israel with it's inhabitants entitled to full citizenship (a requirement of any annexation since the Mandate Accords of 1920) with those declining to take Israeli citizenship emigrating to Gaza or elsewhere in the world. That is a two state solution that works and will not lead to Israel's destruction and does not involve the unrealistic idea of two parts of a state separated by the territory of another state. And with a birthrate of 3.0 children per family, Jewish Israel need not fear any demographic time bomb especially since West Bank Palestinian's birthrate is the same or slightly lower. But it requires Palestinians and Europeans to give up on the fashionable notion that the State of Israel was created by mistake in a moment of weakness for the international community.
Gaza opted for Hamas, and the West Bank for the PLA. I don't see them as one nation, frankly. Hamas is a paper tiger party, and their inability to do harm to Israel is proof. If the Israelis didn't overreact every time a rocket is launched, it would revert to a party of toothless chest thumpers. But they do, and that just gives Hamas legitimacy; the excessive response to provocations guarantees their continuation.

On the other hand, the problem in the WB is the unending settlements, that makes the place a Swiss Cheese Ghetto. In this case, its the not-so-toothless Israelis provoking the Palestinians.

Why are we involved at all?
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#135 at 02-25-2016 10:05 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by MordecaiK View Post
We continue to back the Kingdom because the Kingdom prices it's oil in US dollars. And drags the rest of OPEC with the exception of Iran with it. Thereby making dollars a necessity for any nation needing to buy oil. Which forces nations to find things to sell to the US to get those US dollars, resulting in cheap affordable consumer goods for Americans. Which in turn permits the US to get away with running account deficits, budget deficits and lower interest rates at levels that would have other nations selling off dollars for alternative currencies if those alternatives were viable...
Other nations have equally strong currencies without the benefit of a petro monopoly. To be honest about it, we will be better-off cutting the Saudis loose and taking our chances. We still hold the world's strongest currency because we are the world's strongest economy. That won't change any time soon.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#136 at 02-25-2016 10:13 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by herbal tee View Post
Well, he didn't really get banned. At least not in the classic understanding of the word. :
Few true banning's have occurred. Marc Lamb unloaded on the webmaster, and that's a case of true permanence. One or two totally obnoxious posters trolled the site to see how long they would be tolerated. Answer: not long. Most other banned posters managed to reappear like the Phoenix ... chastened but unbowed.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#137 at 02-26-2016 12:22 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
Why us? More to the point, how will we intervene in a positive way? It can't always be us, and our track record is poor in any case. We may do vastly more harm than good. In fact, it's almost a certainty. The Europeans, on the other hand, have a real stake here. For all practical purposes, they are being invaded. More to the point, they are already in the neighborhood.
Yes indeed. It is the result of our inaction. And yes, it should have been more than us. It has been, too, but regional powers mostly. Again, not intervention; we can't fight their revolution for them. Support is what I have recommended for a long time. Assad got more support than the people did, for his genocide on his own people. Hillary got it right.

You have it right on the Israel/Palestinian mess and the Saudis.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#138 at 02-26-2016 12:47 AM by Classic-X'er [at joined Sep 2012 #posts 1,789]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
Watch and learn from them, it will come in handy because you baggers are next.
The TP's are willing to take your knees out and jump on your back for the ride to ground. Do you like crashes? Do you like social disturbances? How many crashes would it take to bring a trust fund kid like you down to my level? One big one? Two pretty big ones? A serious hand full in relatively short time period.







Post#139 at 02-26-2016 12:57 AM by Classic-X'er [at joined Sep 2012 #posts 1,789]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
Few true banning's have occurred. Marc Lamb unloaded on the webmaster, and that's a case of true permanence. One or two totally obnoxious posters trolled the site to see how long they would be tolerated. Answer: not long. Most other banned posters managed to reappear like the Phoenix ... chastened but unbowed.
How do you know that? Were you in with the webmaster at the time?







Post#140 at 02-26-2016 01:04 AM by Classic-X'er [at joined Sep 2012 #posts 1,789]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
Why us? More to the point, how will we intervene in a positive way? It can't always be us, and our track record is poor in any case. We may do vastly more harm than good. In fact, it's almost a certainty. The Europeans, on the other hand, have a real stake here. For all practical purposes, they are being invaded. More to the point, they are already in the neighborhood.
I don't think we could harm the situation much more than it has already been harmed at this point.







Post#141 at 02-26-2016 10:35 AM by B Butler [at joined Nov 2011 #posts 2,329]
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Left Arrow But...

Quote Originally Posted by Classic-X'er View Post
I don't think we could harm the situation much more than it has already been harmed at this point.
Oh, I don't know. If Trump were to govern as he campaigns, responding to adversity with insults, optimizing ego gratification, seeking always to be the center of attention, I bet he could find a way to make things worse.







Post#142 at 02-26-2016 11:48 AM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Classic-X'er View Post
The TP's are willing to take your knees out and jump on your back for the ride to ground. Do you like crashes? Do you like social disturbances? How many crashes would it take to bring a trust fund kid like you down to my level? One big one? Two pretty big ones? A serious hand full in relatively short time period.
I know, I know, zombies are just around the corner.

By the way, did anyone tell you that Mayan Calender thingee didn't work out?
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#143 at 02-26-2016 12:29 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Yes indeed. It is the result of our inaction. And yes, it should have been more than us. It has been, too, but regional powers mostly. Again, not intervention; we can't fight their revolution for them. Support is what I have recommended for a long time. Assad got more support than the people did, for his genocide on his own people. Hillary got it right.

You have it right on the Israel/Palestinian mess and the Saudis.
No, it should be someone other than us. We can't get involved everywhere on every issue every time. There are cases where the US needs to be involved; for example, no one else can stand-up to the Chinese in the South China Sea. But we've meddled unsuccessfully in the Middle East for decades. Unless the Russians invade, it's time to bid the entire region adieu.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#144 at 02-26-2016 12:34 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by Classic-X'er View Post
How do you know that? Were you in with the webmaster at the time?
I know you're back, along with several others. I know quite a bit about the Marc Lamb affair, and one of the stalker-trolls. The rest is extrapolation.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#145 at 02-26-2016 12:36 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by Classic-X'er View Post
I don't think we could harm the situation much more than it has already been harmed at this point.
There's a great selling point for throwing or children and treasure at a problem.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#146 at 02-26-2016 12:50 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
No, it should be someone other than us. We can't get involved everywhere on every issue every time. There are cases where the US needs to be involved; for example, no one else can stand-up to the Chinese in the South China Sea. But we've meddled unsuccessfully in the Middle East for decades. Unless the Russians invade, it's time to bid the entire region adieu.
What about your Kurds?

Also, I think the Iranian election is worth watching and then the eventual replacement of Supreme Leader. If they ever become a moderating force in the Region, we might want to get closer - one thing they don't need from us is an army. Another possible outcome of that is to tell WB settlers to go F themselves. Then the real issue becomes clear - Sunni-land?
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#147 at 03-14-2016 02:25 PM by B Butler [at joined Nov 2011 #posts 2,329]
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Left Arrow Copyright!

It seems Putin is reconsidering intervention. His troops have achieved their objectives and can come home now. As an American, am I allowed to be dubious? Declare victory and go home? Really? Can we sue them for copyright infringement?

While he pushed some battle lines, I've a feeling that withdrawal will result in a slow shift back to the old status quo. Quagmire as usual?







Post#148 at 03-14-2016 03:32 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by B Butler View Post
It seems Putin is reconsidering intervention. His troops have achieved their objectives and can come home now. As an American, am I allowed to be dubious? Declare victory and go home? Really? Can we sue them for copyright infringement?

While he pushed some battle lines, I've a feeling that withdrawal will result in a slow shift back to the old status quo. Quagmire as usual?
Dubious is the correct word. Here's an excerpt from the media coverage in Moscow -

Russia's military won't withdraw entirely from Syria, however. The Russian airbase in the province of Latakia and a naval facility in the Syrian port of Tartous will continue to operate, Russia's TASS news agency said.

Putin's got Assad a buffer around his two crown jewels in the Mediterranean; he can afford to pull the troops out and look like the grand diplomat. They'd be back in there within hours of any indication that Latakia or Tartous were back at risk.

The one possible positive out of this may be a signal to Assad and the West that Putin's support of Assad politically is limited. Fingers crossed that this might be a step in the direction of removing Assad relatively peacefully.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#149 at 03-14-2016 03:52 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
No, it should be someone other than us. We can't get involved everywhere on every issue every time. There are cases where the US needs to be involved; for example, no one else can stand-up to the Chinese in the South China Sea. But we've meddled unsuccessfully in the Middle East for decades. Unless the Russians invade, it's time to bid the entire region adieu.
Well, looks like the Russians have invaded, but now are pulling out.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/15/wo...awal.html?_r=0

It looks like only the USA can lead the fight against the IS. And we need to support the Syrian rebels; as proxies, and negotiators, not invaders. But no, we can't be involved in every issue every time. There needs to be global involvement to uphold international law. We can make sure everyone can travel through the South China Sea. But if the Chinese want to claim a few islands, I don't see that's worth fighting over.
Last edited by Eric the Green; 03-14-2016 at 03:57 PM.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#150 at 03-14-2016 05:39 PM by Ragnarök_62 [at Oklahoma joined Nov 2006 #posts 5,511]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Well, looks like the Russians have invaded, but now are pulling out.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/15/wo...awal.html?_r=0
Putin's smarter than we are. He knows to chuck losers pretty damn quick. I'll take him as a bridge partner anytime over our wahoo Deep State idiots.

It looks like only the USA can lead the fight against the IS. And we need to support the Syrian rebels; as proxies, and negotiators, not invaders. But no, we can't be involved in every issue every time.
No. Simple steps are better.
1. Impose that $70.00/bbl floating excise tax on imported oil.
2. Wait for Mr. market to do his job and replace that shitty Mideast Oil.
3. Shut down all US military bases.
4. Withdraw every single US military person.
5. Grab some popcorn and watch the MIdeast go to hell.

There needs to be global involvement to uphold international law.
There is no international law.

We can make sure everyone can travel through the South China Sea. But if the Chinese want to claim a few islands, I don't see that's worth fighting over.
No again. If China wants to play Big Boy, the price shall be shutting off the US consumer market.

::Rags:: imposes excise taxes on Chinashit because we don't want to depend on Big Bad Boys for stuff.
MBTI step II type : Expressive INTP

There's an annual contest at Bond University, Australia, calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term:
The winning student wrote:

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."
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