To all Fourth Turning Forum members:


We have always been pleased to run this forum. Setting it up, in fact, was one of the first things Bill and I did after publishing The Fourth Turning in 1997. We wanted the site to engage readers--and we succeeded. It is one of the longest-running web forums in existence.


A good forum requires someone (or several people) willing to dedicate time to monitor it. Unfortunately, we don't currently have the resources to do this.


For this reason, we have decided to close this forum down. At the end of the day on May 15, 2016 (Sunday), we will take the forum off line. You have until then to copy any content you like off of the forum and to communicate with others while the forum is still live.


If any of you wish to start an alternative forum on a new site to continue your discussions, you are of course free to do so. I would be happy to see this community live on!


Meanwhile, feel free to keep in touch with my work and theory on Twitter or Facebook; check out more of our content on lifecourse.com, saeculumresearch.com, or Youtube; or keep in touch with me on LinkedIn. Currently, I'm publishing fairly regularly (in print) on Forbes and (in video) on Hedgeye. Many of you have urged me to do a new version of Generations and The Fourth Turning. I assure this is high on my agenda. Look for these in 2017.


Yours,
Neil Howe

To Neil,

Thanks for the years of support you've provided for a disparate group of opinion mongers. Many of us have been here almost continuously since 9/11 or shortly thereafter. I hope you have gained some return on the investment you've made. I know we have.

To my fellow posters,

Let's discuss options.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

To Neil,

Thanks for the years of support you've provided for a disparate group of opinion mongers. Many of us have been here almost continuously since 9/11 or shortly thereafter. I hope you have gained some return on the investment you've made. I know we have.

To my fellow posters,

Let's discuss options.

He needs someone to monitor right? Why can't we have volunteers here?

Lots of copying and reprogramming to do. There's articles on the global warming thread, and of course, what to do (if anything) with the Justin Bieber shrine. And all the links to my predictions that came true from my website for my new book. Probably this reference is to be gone. Oh well; lotsa work.

I'll miss the forum; but you know, I have been addicted to it for 19 years. It's wasted a lot of my time. I sincerely hope that sometimes some interesting ideas and info have been exchanged here. It's a great topic, a great book, and a great forum; the broadest in scope and most-relevant forum that I know. I am the most prolific poster, or so I have been told. But, this was not unexpected. Maybe it's time to move on, and spend less time on the computer arguing with folks, mostly to no avail, and more time with real in-person conversation, and real creative work.

The only viable option would be someone who has access to a reliable and available server that could accomodate this massive forum, and a genuinely honest and neutral volunteer with access to it to monitor it. Anything less would probably not interest me, for one. But best wishes with your plans; we'll see.

It's Neil's decision and right to close down the forum. The only other thing I would suggest is to find a volunteer monitor that is qualified. I don't know how hard that would be though.

My new global warming blog will be posted here:
http://philosopherswheel.com/globalwarming.html

Originally Posted by Taramarie

He needs someone to monitor right? Why can't we have volunteers here?

Every game store I attend uses ProBoards. I believe they are add supported. If you bribe them, they'll remove the adds on a user by user basis. They allow assignment of moderators to sub forums. They seem reliable enough. I briefly ran a small ProBoards forum with a very limited number of posters. The configuration isn't a big deal. There are lots of other companies other than vBulletin and ProBoards. If anyone wants to suggest one they are familiar with, go ahead.

I'm not sure I'm eager to jump in and administer a site the size of the present T4T. I might be willing and able to take one sub forum. The sub forum I know is Politics and Economics. The problem for me would be keeping my neutral moderator and partisan participant hats separated.

The other option, as suggested, is to try to continue here at vBulletin but have members moderate. This would allow us to keep the archives.

How many might be willing to do some monitoring? How badly would people like to keep the old stuff available, or is continuing the discussion more important?

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Lots of copying and reprogramming to do. There's articles on the global warming thread, and of course, what to do (if anything) with the Justin Bieber shrine. And all the links to my predictions that came true from my website for my new book. Probably this reference is to be gone. Oh well; lotsa work.

I'll miss the forum; but you know, I have been addicted to it for 19 years. It's wasted a lot of my time. I sincerely hope that sometimes some interesting ideas and info have been exchanged here. It's a great topic, a great book, and a great forum; the broadest in scope and most-relevant forum that I know. I am the most prolific poster, or so I have been told. But, this was not unexpected. Maybe it's time to move on, and spend less time on the computer arguing with folks, mostly to no avail, and more time with real in-person conversation, and real creative work.

The only viable option would be someone who has access to a reliable and available server that could accomodate this massive forum, and a genuinely honest and neutral volunteer with access to it to monitor it. Anything less would probably not interest me, for one. But best wishes with your plans; we'll see.

It's Neil's decision and right to close down the forum. The only other thing I would suggest is to find a volunteer monitor that is qualified. I don't know how hard that would be though.

My new global warming blog will be posted here:
http://philosopherswheel.com/globalwarming.html

Perhaps either copy and paste your jb thread onto your own site *philosophers wheel* or create a new one. Or we can try to save it beforehand by getting a moderator from one of the people who participates here.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Lots of copying and reprogramming to do. There's articles on the global warming thread, and of course, what to do (if anything) with the Justin Bieber shrine. And all the links to my predictions that came true from my website for my new book. Probably this reference is to be gone. Oh well; lotsa work.

I'll miss the forum; but you know, I have been addicted to it for 19 years. It's wasted a lot of my time. I sincerely hope that sometimes some interesting ideas and info have been exchanged here. It's a great topic, a great book, and a great forum; the broadest in scope and most-relevant forum that I know. I am the most prolific poster, or so I have been told. But, this was not unexpected. Maybe it's time to move on, and spend less time on the computer arguing with folks, mostly to no avail, and more time with real in-person conversation, and real creative work.

The only viable option would be someone who has access to a reliable and available server that could accomodate this massive forum, and a genuinely honest and neutral volunteer with access to it to monitor it. Anything less would probably not interest me, for one. But best wishes with your plans; we'll see.

It's Neil's decision and right to close down the forum. The only other thing I would suggest is to find a volunteer monitor that is qualified. I don't know how hard that would be though.

My new global warming blog will be posted here:
http://philosopherswheel.com/globalwarming.html

Hi Eric, lobbying you here to take over the whole enchilada. I suspect your site can handle this. We no longer have a large user base. Most people shun these types of forums and spend their time on Facebook, Snapchat, etc.

Originally Posted by B Butler

Every game store I attend uses ProBoards. I believe they are add supported. If you bribe them, they'll remove the adds on a user by user basis. They allow assignment of moderators to sub forums. They seem reliable enough. I briefly ran a small ProBoards forum with a very limited number of posters. The configuration isn't a big deal. There are lots of other companies other than vBulletin and ProBoards. If anyone wants to suggest one they are familiar with, go ahead.

I'm not sure I'm eager to jump in and administer a site the size of the present T4T. I might be willing and able to take one sub forum. The sub forum I know is Politics and Economics. The problem for me would be keeping my neutral moderator and partisan participant hats separated.

The other option, as suggested, is to try to continue here at vBulletin but have members moderate. This would allow us to keep the archives.

How many might be willing to do some monitoring? How badly would people like to keep the old stuff available, or is continuing the discussion more important?

Besides Eric taking over the whole enchilada that would be another approach. I've had good experiences for the most part running forums with those two providers plus a couple others.

If no one else wants to do it, I'm willing to take responsibility for
administering this forum as is, and keeping it up. It would run
exactly as it does now. I've been administering forums for years, and
I'm quite used to it. I would hate to see this forum shut down.

Originally Posted by John J. Xenakis

If no one else wants to do it, I'm willing to take responsibility for
administering this forum as is, and keeping it up. It would run
exactly as it does now. I've been administering forums for years, and
I'm quite used to it. I would hate to see this forum shut down.

Wonderful! Neil, I hope you are paying attention. Let John moderate this forum.

Originally Posted by John J. Xenakis

If no one else wants to do it, I'm willing to take responsibility for
administering this forum as is, and keeping it up. It would run
exactly as it does now. I've been administering forums for years, and
I'm quite used to it. I would hate to see this forum shut down.

That is a most generous offer. I would miss the discussions.

Oh no! I hope someone here can make a new board for us!

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Lots of copying and reprogramming to do.

Yup, Eric would have to learn PHP and probably some sort SQL.

There's articles on the global warming thread, and of course, what to do (if anything) with the Justin Bieber shrine.

Yeah, if this thing finds a new home, I think adding an forum.ignore(thread); function would be nice.

And all the links to my predictions that came true from my website for my new book. Probably this reference is to be gone. Oh well; lotsa work.

Yeah, but maybe Craig, etc. al. can make you a tarball and you can then stick on your website.

I'll miss the forum; but you know, I have been addicted to it for 19 years. It's wasted a lot of my time. I sincerely hope that sometimes some interesting ideas and info have been exchanged here. It's a great topic, a great book, and a great forum; the broadest in scope and most-relevant forum that I know. I am the most prolific poster, or so I have been told.

...

Originally Posted by forum

oin Date Jul 2001
LocationSan Jose CA
Posts 22,418

Yup, I think you're the winner.

But, this was not unexpected. Maybe it's time to move on, and spend less time on the computer arguing with folks, mostly to no avail, and more time with real in-person conversation, and real creative work.

But, but this place already has a forum.ignore(person) function. I guess somebody can add a forum.chat(person) function as well.

The only viable option would be someone who has access to a reliable and available server that could accommodate this massive forum, and a genuinely honest and neutral volunteer with access to it to monitor it. Anything less would probably not interest me, for one. But best wishes with your plans; we'll see.

I guess John and/or you have said server ?

It's Neil's decision and right to close down the forum. The only other thing I would suggest is to find a volunteer monitor that is qualified. I don't know how hard that would be though.

Fair and balanced: playwrite and Galen.

My new global warming blog will be posted here:
http://philosopherswheel.com/globalwarming.html

Uh, do you have some sort of diskie quota?

I have to admit that I'm going to miss this place. I love a good challenge and this place always represented a good challenge. For those who took issue with my grammar skills, I'm sorry for not keeping up on them after graduating from high school. For those who I've upset or pissed off, I'm sorry for being an asshole to you. For the friends that I've made here, I will miss you guys. I'd like to thank Rani for being a loyal friend. I like to thank Prince of Cats for being a clever and entertaining poster and ally. To Bob, I never quite understood your values but I do believe that we share several. M&L, nothing personal man, it was always just business. I've always respected your values and positions on most things even if you didn't think that I did at the time. Wayne, I hope all goes well and thanks for introducing me to this place. I'll be taming it down from here on. So, enjoy yourselves with the rest of the time that's left. Good luck to all in your endeavors.

Originally Posted by Classic-X'er

I have to admit that I'm going to miss this place. I love a good challenge and this place always represented a good challenge. For those who took issue with my grammar skills, I'm sorry for not keeping up on them after graduating from high school. For those who I've upset or pissed off, I'm sorry for being an asshole to you. For the friends that I've made here, I will miss you guys. I'd like to thank Rani for being a loyal friend. I like to thank Prince of Cats for being a clever and entertaining poster and ally. To Bob, I never quite understood your values but I do believe that we share several. M&L, nothing personal man, it was always just business. I've always respected your values and positions on most things even if you didn't think that I did at the time. Wayne, I hope all goes well and thanks for introducing me to this place. I'll be taming it down from here on. So, enjoy yourselves with the rest of the time that's left. Good luck to all in your endeavors.

I will miss our chats too. You have opened my mind to certain things and that is what makes an interesting conversation. Also to everyone else, I will miss you all. Including you Eric although I know you wont! You also are an interesting fella who did open my mind too whether you believe it or not.

Yup. The board is no longer a viable way to promote selling T4T. Such has moved on.

There are still lots of paces to go. Usenet?

Originally Posted by Bad Dog

Yup. The board is no longer a viable way to promote selling T4T. Such has moved on.

There are still lots of paces to go. Usenet?

fourthturning.com/forums > alt.flame-wars.

Originally Posted by John J. Xenakis

If no one else wants to do it, I'm willing to take responsibility for
administering this forum as is, and keeping it up. It would run
exactly as it does now. I've been administering forums for years, and
I'm quite used to it. I would hate to see this forum shut down.

This sounds good. We'll see if anyone else wants to step up, but if not I'll be pleased if you took the ball and ran with it.

Originally Posted by XYMOX_4AD_84

Hi Eric, lobbying you here to take over the whole enchilada. I suspect your site can handle this. We no longer have a large user base. Most people shun these types of forums and spend their time on Facebook, Snapchat, etc.

Thanks for the vote, Xymox. I doubt that would be a very popular idea. Nor would the idea of Bob moderating the political forum.

My server is good, but my computer is small. I don't know too many posters here who would be detached and neutral enough. I would think we might be able to track down a volunteer somewhere.

My suspicion is that Mr. Howe and Co. (Cheslog?) decided that we weren't monitoring things on our own very well not too long ago, and instituted a tougher moderating regimen. I remember getting my first complaint. And Einzige was banned recently. But this regimen is apparently too expensive to maintain. It seems a shame to shut down the site rather than endure some uncivil posters. It's like destroying the city in order to save it.

I don't know if Neil is open to ideas, or would be reading this forum thread.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Thanks for the vote, Xymox. I doubt that would be a very popular idea. Nor would the idea of Bob moderating the political forum.

My server is good, but my computer is small. I don't know too many posters here who would be detached and neutral enough. I would think we might be able to track down a volunteer somewhere.

My suspicion is that Mr. Howe and Co. (Cheslog?) decided that we weren't monitoring things on our own very well not too long ago, and instituted a tougher moderating regimen. I remember getting my first complaint. And Einzige was banned recently. But this regimen is apparently too expensive to maintain. It seems a shame to shut down the site rather than endure some uncivil posters. It's like destroying the city in order to save it.

I don't know if Neil is open to ideas, or would be reading this forum thread.

He is on twitter if you want to get hold of him.

I am very sorry to learn of this. I really enjoyed this forum.

I've created a fourth turning forum on Yuku available here:

http://fourthturning.yuku.com/

I haven’t set up any sub forums yet, but I’ll work on getting the new forum up to snuff in the next two weeks. If anyone has any suggestion for new sub forums let me know.


I wish this forum would simply be turned off without all the old threads being deleted.

Originally Posted by Dan '82

I've created a fourth turning forum on Yuku available here:

http://fourthturning.yuku.com/

I haven’t set up any sub forums yet, but I’ll work on getting the new forum up to snuff in the next two weeks. If anyone has any suggestion for new sub forums let me know.


I wish this forum would simply be turned off without all the old threads being deleted.

Thanks for doing this.

I agree with your idea of making this forum read only for a grace period so the scraping operation does not have to be a time crunch.

I do think the existing threads should be scraped and archived in the new forum.

Originally Posted by Dan '82

I've created a fourth turning forum on Yuku available here:

http://fourthturning.yuku.com/

I haven’t set up any sub forums yet, but I’ll work on getting the new forum up to snuff in the next two weeks. If anyone has any suggestion for new sub forums let me know.


I wish this forum would simply be turned off without all the old threads being deleted.

Are you going to be able to ignore/control Pbrower2? From the view of management, PB to me would be a management/mangers/moderators nightmare.

Originally Posted by Classic-X'er

Are you going to be able to ignore/control Pbrower2? From the view of management, PB to me would be a management/mangers/moderators nightmare.

Although I frequently disagree with pbrower2, his posts contribute to the civil dialogue.