Generational Dynamics
Fourth Turning Forum Archive


Popular links:
Generational Dynamics Web Site
Generational Dynamics Forum
Fourth Turning Archive home page
New Fourth Turning Forum

Thread: To all Fourth Turning Forum members:







Post#1 at 04-27-2016 02:30 PM by webmaster [at joined Aug 2006 #posts 123]
---
04-27-2016, 02:30 PM #1
Join Date
Aug 2006
Posts
123

Exclamation To all Fourth Turning Forum members:

To all Fourth Turning Forum members:


We have always been pleased to run this forum. Setting it up, in fact, was one of the first things Bill and I did after publishing The Fourth Turning in 1997. We wanted the site to engage readers--and we succeeded. It is one of the longest-running web forums in existence.


A good forum requires someone (or several people) willing to dedicate time to monitor it. Unfortunately, we don't currently have the resources to do this.


For this reason, we have decided to close this forum down. At the end of the day on May 15, 2016 (Sunday), we will take the forum off line. You have until then to copy any content you like off of the forum and to communicate with others while the forum is still live.


If any of you wish to start an alternative forum on a new site to continue your discussions, you are of course free to do so. I would be happy to see this community live on!


Meanwhile, feel free to keep in touch with my work and theory on Twitter or Facebook; check out more of our content on lifecourse.com, saeculumresearch.com, or Youtube; or keep in touch with me on LinkedIn. Currently, I'm publishing fairly regularly (in print) on Forbes and (in video) on Hedgeye. Many of you have urged me to do a new version of Generations and The Fourth Turning. I assure this is high on my agenda. Look for these in 2017.


Yours,
Neil Howe







Post#2 at 04-27-2016 04:03 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,715]
---
04-27-2016, 04:03 PM #2
Join Date
Sep 2001
Location
'47 cohort still lost in Falwelland
Posts
16,715

To Neil,

Thanks for the years of support you've provided for a disparate group of opinion mongers. Many of us have been here almost continuously since 9/11 or shortly thereafter. I hope you have gained some return on the investment you've made. I know we have.

To my fellow posters,

Let's discuss options.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#3 at 04-27-2016 04:24 PM by Taramarie [at Christchurch, New Zealand joined Jul 2015 #posts 2,769]
---
04-27-2016, 04:24 PM #3
Join Date
Jul 2015
Location
Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts
2,769

Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
To Neil,

Thanks for the years of support you've provided for a disparate group of opinion mongers. Many of us have been here almost continuously since 9/11 or shortly thereafter. I hope you have gained some return on the investment you've made. I know we have.

To my fellow posters,

Let's discuss options.

He needs someone to monitor right? Why can't we have volunteers here?
1984 Civic
ISFJ
Introvert(69%) Sensing(6%) Feeling(19%) Judging(22%)







Post#4 at 04-27-2016 04:55 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,505]
---
04-27-2016, 04:55 PM #4
Join Date
Jul 2001
Location
San Jose CA
Posts
22,505

Lots of copying and reprogramming to do. There's articles on the global warming thread, and of course, what to do (if anything) with the Justin Bieber shrine. And all the links to my predictions that came true from my website for my new book. Probably this reference is to be gone. Oh well; lotsa work.

I'll miss the forum; but you know, I have been addicted to it for 19 years. It's wasted a lot of my time. I sincerely hope that sometimes some interesting ideas and info have been exchanged here. It's a great topic, a great book, and a great forum; the broadest in scope and most-relevant forum that I know. I am the most prolific poster, or so I have been told. But, this was not unexpected. Maybe it's time to move on, and spend less time on the computer arguing with folks, mostly to no avail, and more time with real in-person conversation, and real creative work.

The only viable option would be someone who has access to a reliable and available server that could accomodate this massive forum, and a genuinely honest and neutral volunteer with access to it to monitor it. Anything less would probably not interest me, for one. But best wishes with your plans; we'll see.

It's Neil's decision and right to close down the forum. The only other thing I would suggest is to find a volunteer monitor that is qualified. I don't know how hard that would be though.

My new global warming blog will be posted here:
http://philosopherswheel.com/globalwarming.html
Last edited by Eric the Green; 04-27-2016 at 05:13 PM.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#5 at 04-27-2016 05:23 PM by B Butler [at joined Nov 2011 #posts 2,329]
---
04-27-2016, 05:23 PM #5
Join Date
Nov 2011
Posts
2,329

Left Arrow Rebooting?

Quote Originally Posted by Taramarie View Post
He needs someone to monitor right? Why can't we have volunteers here?
Every game store I attend uses ProBoards. I believe they are add supported. If you bribe them, they'll remove the adds on a user by user basis. They allow assignment of moderators to sub forums. They seem reliable enough. I briefly ran a small ProBoards forum with a very limited number of posters. The configuration isn't a big deal. There are lots of other companies other than vBulletin and ProBoards. If anyone wants to suggest one they are familiar with, go ahead.

I'm not sure I'm eager to jump in and administer a site the size of the present T4T. I might be willing and able to take one sub forum. The sub forum I know is Politics and Economics. The problem for me would be keeping my neutral moderator and partisan participant hats separated.

The other option, as suggested, is to try to continue here at vBulletin but have members moderate. This would allow us to keep the archives.

How many might be willing to do some monitoring? How badly would people like to keep the old stuff available, or is continuing the discussion more important?







Post#6 at 04-27-2016 05:27 PM by Taramarie [at Christchurch, New Zealand joined Jul 2015 #posts 2,769]
---
04-27-2016, 05:27 PM #6
Join Date
Jul 2015
Location
Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts
2,769

Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Lots of copying and reprogramming to do. There's articles on the global warming thread, and of course, what to do (if anything) with the Justin Bieber shrine. And all the links to my predictions that came true from my website for my new book. Probably this reference is to be gone. Oh well; lotsa work.

I'll miss the forum; but you know, I have been addicted to it for 19 years. It's wasted a lot of my time. I sincerely hope that sometimes some interesting ideas and info have been exchanged here. It's a great topic, a great book, and a great forum; the broadest in scope and most-relevant forum that I know. I am the most prolific poster, or so I have been told. But, this was not unexpected. Maybe it's time to move on, and spend less time on the computer arguing with folks, mostly to no avail, and more time with real in-person conversation, and real creative work.

The only viable option would be someone who has access to a reliable and available server that could accomodate this massive forum, and a genuinely honest and neutral volunteer with access to it to monitor it. Anything less would probably not interest me, for one. But best wishes with your plans; we'll see.

It's Neil's decision and right to close down the forum. The only other thing I would suggest is to find a volunteer monitor that is qualified. I don't know how hard that would be though.

My new global warming blog will be posted here:
http://philosopherswheel.com/globalwarming.html

Perhaps either copy and paste your jb thread onto your own site *philosophers wheel* or create a new one. Or we can try to save it beforehand by getting a moderator from one of the people who participates here.
1984 Civic
ISFJ
Introvert(69%) Sensing(6%) Feeling(19%) Judging(22%)







Post#7 at 04-27-2016 05:32 PM by XYMOX_4AD_84 [at joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,073]
---
04-27-2016, 05:32 PM #7
Join Date
Nov 2012
Posts
3,073

Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Lots of copying and reprogramming to do. There's articles on the global warming thread, and of course, what to do (if anything) with the Justin Bieber shrine. And all the links to my predictions that came true from my website for my new book. Probably this reference is to be gone. Oh well; lotsa work.

I'll miss the forum; but you know, I have been addicted to it for 19 years. It's wasted a lot of my time. I sincerely hope that sometimes some interesting ideas and info have been exchanged here. It's a great topic, a great book, and a great forum; the broadest in scope and most-relevant forum that I know. I am the most prolific poster, or so I have been told. But, this was not unexpected. Maybe it's time to move on, and spend less time on the computer arguing with folks, mostly to no avail, and more time with real in-person conversation, and real creative work.

The only viable option would be someone who has access to a reliable and available server that could accomodate this massive forum, and a genuinely honest and neutral volunteer with access to it to monitor it. Anything less would probably not interest me, for one. But best wishes with your plans; we'll see.

It's Neil's decision and right to close down the forum. The only other thing I would suggest is to find a volunteer monitor that is qualified. I don't know how hard that would be though.

My new global warming blog will be posted here:
http://philosopherswheel.com/globalwarming.html
Hi Eric, lobbying you here to take over the whole enchilada. I suspect your site can handle this. We no longer have a large user base. Most people shun these types of forums and spend their time on Facebook, Snapchat, etc.
==========================================

#nevertrump







Post#8 at 04-27-2016 05:33 PM by XYMOX_4AD_84 [at joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,073]
---
04-27-2016, 05:33 PM #8
Join Date
Nov 2012
Posts
3,073

Quote Originally Posted by B Butler View Post
Every game store I attend uses ProBoards. I believe they are add supported. If you bribe them, they'll remove the adds on a user by user basis. They allow assignment of moderators to sub forums. They seem reliable enough. I briefly ran a small ProBoards forum with a very limited number of posters. The configuration isn't a big deal. There are lots of other companies other than vBulletin and ProBoards. If anyone wants to suggest one they are familiar with, go ahead.

I'm not sure I'm eager to jump in and administer a site the size of the present T4T. I might be willing and able to take one sub forum. The sub forum I know is Politics and Economics. The problem for me would be keeping my neutral moderator and partisan participant hats separated.

The other option, as suggested, is to try to continue here at vBulletin but have members moderate. This would allow us to keep the archives.

How many might be willing to do some monitoring? How badly would people like to keep the old stuff available, or is continuing the discussion more important?
Besides Eric taking over the whole enchilada that would be another approach. I've had good experiences for the most part running forums with those two providers plus a couple others.
==========================================

#nevertrump







Post#9 at 04-27-2016 05:37 PM by John J. Xenakis [at Cambridge, MA joined May 2003 #posts 4,012]
---
04-27-2016, 05:37 PM #9
Join Date
May 2003
Location
Cambridge, MA
Posts
4,012

If no one else wants to do it, I'm willing to take responsibility for
administering this forum as is, and keeping it up. It would run
exactly as it does now. I've been administering forums for years, and
I'm quite used to it. I would hate to see this forum shut down.







Post#10 at 04-27-2016 05:39 PM by Taramarie [at Christchurch, New Zealand joined Jul 2015 #posts 2,769]
---
04-27-2016, 05:39 PM #10
Join Date
Jul 2015
Location
Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts
2,769

Quote Originally Posted by John J. Xenakis View Post
If no one else wants to do it, I'm willing to take responsibility for
administering this forum as is, and keeping it up. It would run
exactly as it does now. I've been administering forums for years, and
I'm quite used to it. I would hate to see this forum shut down.

Wonderful! Neil, I hope you are paying attention. Let John moderate this forum.
1984 Civic
ISFJ
Introvert(69%) Sensing(6%) Feeling(19%) Judging(22%)







Post#11 at 04-27-2016 06:01 PM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,597]
---
04-27-2016, 06:01 PM #11
Join Date
Sep 2009
Location
Alabama
Posts
1,597

Quote Originally Posted by John J. Xenakis View Post
If no one else wants to do it, I'm willing to take responsibility for
administering this forum as is, and keeping it up. It would run
exactly as it does now. I've been administering forums for years, and
I'm quite used to it. I would hate to see this forum shut down.
That is a most generous offer. I would miss the discussions.







Post#12 at 04-27-2016 06:58 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
---
04-27-2016, 06:58 PM #12
Join Date
Sep 2006
Location
Moorhead, MN, USA
Posts
14,442

Oh no! I hope someone here can make a new board for us!
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#13 at 04-27-2016 07:44 PM by Ragnarök_62 [at Oklahoma joined Nov 2006 #posts 5,511]
---
04-27-2016, 07:44 PM #13
Join Date
Nov 2006
Location
Oklahoma
Posts
5,511

Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Lots of copying and reprogramming to do.
Yup, Eric would have to learn PHP and probably some sort SQL.

There's articles on the global warming thread, and of course, what to do (if anything) with the Justin Bieber shrine.
Yeah, if this thing finds a new home, I think adding an forum.ignore(thread); function would be nice.

And all the links to my predictions that came true from my website for my new book. Probably this reference is to be gone. Oh well; lotsa work.
Yeah, but maybe Craig, etc. al. can make you a tarball and you can then stick on your website.

I'll miss the forum; but you know, I have been addicted to it for 19 years. It's wasted a lot of my time. I sincerely hope that sometimes some interesting ideas and info have been exchanged here. It's a great topic, a great book, and a great forum; the broadest in scope and most-relevant forum that I know. I am the most prolific poster, or so I have been told.

...
Quote Originally Posted by forum
oin Date Jul 2001
LocationSan Jose CA
Posts 22,418
Yup, I think you're the winner.


But, this was not unexpected. Maybe it's time to move on, and spend less time on the computer arguing with folks, mostly to no avail, and more time with real in-person conversation, and real creative work.
But, but this place already has a forum.ignore(person) function. I guess somebody can add a forum.chat(person) function as well.

The only viable option would be someone who has access to a reliable and available server that could accommodate this massive forum, and a genuinely honest and neutral volunteer with access to it to monitor it. Anything less would probably not interest me, for one. But best wishes with your plans; we'll see.
I guess John and/or you have said server ?


It's Neil's decision and right to close down the forum. The only other thing I would suggest is to find a volunteer monitor that is qualified. I don't know how hard that would be though.
Fair and balanced: playwrite and Galen.

My new global warming blog will be posted here:
http://philosopherswheel.com/globalwarming.html
Uh, do you have some sort of diskie quota?
Last edited by Ragnarök_62; 04-27-2016 at 07:47 PM.
MBTI step II type : Expressive INTP

There's an annual contest at Bond University, Australia, calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term:
The winning student wrote:

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."







Post#14 at 04-27-2016 07:48 PM by Classic-X'er [at joined Sep 2012 #posts 1,789]
---
04-27-2016, 07:48 PM #14
Join Date
Sep 2012
Posts
1,789

I have to admit that I'm going to miss this place. I love a good challenge and this place always represented a good challenge. For those who took issue with my grammar skills, I'm sorry for not keeping up on them after graduating from high school. For those who I've upset or pissed off, I'm sorry for being an asshole to you. For the friends that I've made here, I will miss you guys. I'd like to thank Rani for being a loyal friend. I like to thank Prince of Cats for being a clever and entertaining poster and ally. To Bob, I never quite understood your values but I do believe that we share several. M&L, nothing personal man, it was always just business. I've always respected your values and positions on most things even if you didn't think that I did at the time. Wayne, I hope all goes well and thanks for introducing me to this place. I'll be taming it down from here on. So, enjoy yourselves with the rest of the time that's left. Good luck to all in your endeavors.







Post#15 at 04-27-2016 08:05 PM by Taramarie [at Christchurch, New Zealand joined Jul 2015 #posts 2,769]
---
04-27-2016, 08:05 PM #15
Join Date
Jul 2015
Location
Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts
2,769

Quote Originally Posted by Classic-X'er View Post
I have to admit that I'm going to miss this place. I love a good challenge and this place always represented a good challenge. For those who took issue with my grammar skills, I'm sorry for not keeping up on them after graduating from high school. For those who I've upset or pissed off, I'm sorry for being an asshole to you. For the friends that I've made here, I will miss you guys. I'd like to thank Rani for being a loyal friend. I like to thank Prince of Cats for being a clever and entertaining poster and ally. To Bob, I never quite understood your values but I do believe that we share several. M&L, nothing personal man, it was always just business. I've always respected your values and positions on most things even if you didn't think that I did at the time. Wayne, I hope all goes well and thanks for introducing me to this place. I'll be taming it down from here on. So, enjoy yourselves with the rest of the time that's left. Good luck to all in your endeavors.

I will miss our chats too. You have opened my mind to certain things and that is what makes an interesting conversation. Also to everyone else, I will miss you all. Including you Eric although I know you wont! You also are an interesting fella who did open my mind too whether you believe it or not.
1984 Civic
ISFJ
Introvert(69%) Sensing(6%) Feeling(19%) Judging(22%)







Post#16 at 04-27-2016 08:24 PM by Bad Dog [at joined Dec 2012 #posts 2,157]
---
04-27-2016, 08:24 PM #16
Join Date
Dec 2012
Posts
2,157

Yup. The board is no longer a viable way to promote selling T4T. Such has moved on.

There are still lots of paces to go. Usenet?







Post#17 at 04-27-2016 09:02 PM by Ragnarök_62 [at Oklahoma joined Nov 2006 #posts 5,511]
---
04-27-2016, 09:02 PM #17
Join Date
Nov 2006
Location
Oklahoma
Posts
5,511

Quote Originally Posted by Bad Dog View Post
Yup. The board is no longer a viable way to promote selling T4T. Such has moved on.

There are still lots of paces to go. Usenet?
fourthturning.com/forums > alt.flame-wars.
MBTI step II type : Expressive INTP

There's an annual contest at Bond University, Australia, calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term:
The winning student wrote:

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end."







Post#18 at 04-27-2016 10:59 PM by B Butler [at joined Nov 2011 #posts 2,329]
---
04-27-2016, 10:59 PM #18
Join Date
Nov 2011
Posts
2,329

Left Arrow Sounds Good

Quote Originally Posted by John J. Xenakis View Post
If no one else wants to do it, I'm willing to take responsibility for
administering this forum as is, and keeping it up. It would run
exactly as it does now. I've been administering forums for years, and
I'm quite used to it. I would hate to see this forum shut down.
This sounds good. We'll see if anyone else wants to step up, but if not I'll be pleased if you took the ball and ran with it.







Post#19 at 04-28-2016 02:22 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,505]
---
04-28-2016, 02:22 AM #19
Join Date
Jul 2001
Location
San Jose CA
Posts
22,505

Quote Originally Posted by XYMOX_4AD_84 View Post
Hi Eric, lobbying you here to take over the whole enchilada. I suspect your site can handle this. We no longer have a large user base. Most people shun these types of forums and spend their time on Facebook, Snapchat, etc.
Thanks for the vote, Xymox. I doubt that would be a very popular idea. Nor would the idea of Bob moderating the political forum.

My server is good, but my computer is small. I don't know too many posters here who would be detached and neutral enough. I would think we might be able to track down a volunteer somewhere.

My suspicion is that Mr. Howe and Co. (Cheslog?) decided that we weren't monitoring things on our own very well not too long ago, and instituted a tougher moderating regimen. I remember getting my first complaint. And Einzige was banned recently. But this regimen is apparently too expensive to maintain. It seems a shame to shut down the site rather than endure some uncivil posters. It's like destroying the city in order to save it.

I don't know if Neil is open to ideas, or would be reading this forum thread.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#20 at 04-28-2016 02:28 AM by Taramarie [at Christchurch, New Zealand joined Jul 2015 #posts 2,769]
---
04-28-2016, 02:28 AM #20
Join Date
Jul 2015
Location
Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts
2,769

Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Thanks for the vote, Xymox. I doubt that would be a very popular idea. Nor would the idea of Bob moderating the political forum.

My server is good, but my computer is small. I don't know too many posters here who would be detached and neutral enough. I would think we might be able to track down a volunteer somewhere.

My suspicion is that Mr. Howe and Co. (Cheslog?) decided that we weren't monitoring things on our own very well not too long ago, and instituted a tougher moderating regimen. I remember getting my first complaint. And Einzige was banned recently. But this regimen is apparently too expensive to maintain. It seems a shame to shut down the site rather than endure some uncivil posters. It's like destroying the city in order to save it.

I don't know if Neil is open to ideas, or would be reading this forum thread.

He is on twitter if you want to get hold of him.
1984 Civic
ISFJ
Introvert(69%) Sensing(6%) Feeling(19%) Judging(22%)







Post#21 at 04-28-2016 09:52 AM by mockingbirdstl [at USA joined May 2014 #posts 399]
---
04-28-2016, 09:52 AM #21
Join Date
May 2014
Location
USA
Posts
399

I am very sorry to learn of this. I really enjoyed this forum.
Nomad Female
"Good girls go to heaven, bad girls go everywhere." --Mae West
Nomad INFP
"Sunday morning is every day for all I care, and I'm not scared...Now my candle's in a daze 'cause I've found God." --Kurt Cobain







Post#22 at 04-28-2016 10:51 PM by Dan '82 [at joined Mar 2014 #posts 352]
---
04-28-2016, 10:51 PM #22
Join Date
Mar 2014
Posts
352

I've created a fourth turning forum on Yuku available here:

http://fourthturning.yuku.com/

I haven’t set up any sub forums yet, but I’ll work on getting the new forum up to snuff in the next two weeks. If anyone has any suggestion for new sub forums let me know.


I wish this forum would simply be turned off without all the old threads being deleted.
Last edited by Dan '82; 04-29-2016 at 01:04 AM.







Post#23 at 04-28-2016 11:13 PM by XYMOX_4AD_84 [at joined Nov 2012 #posts 3,073]
---
04-28-2016, 11:13 PM #23
Join Date
Nov 2012
Posts
3,073

Quote Originally Posted by Dan '82 View Post
I've created a fourth turning forum on Yuku available here:

http://fourthturning.yuku.com/

I haven’t set up any sub forums yet, but I’ll work on getting the new forum up to snuff in the next two weeks. If anyone has any suggestion for new sub forums let me know.


I wish this forum would simply be turned off without all the old threads being deleted.
Thanks for doing this.

I agree with your idea of making this forum read only for a grace period so the scraping operation does not have to be a time crunch.

I do think the existing threads should be scraped and archived in the new forum.
==========================================

#nevertrump







Post#24 at 04-29-2016 01:41 AM by Classic-X'er [at joined Sep 2012 #posts 1,789]
---
04-29-2016, 01:41 AM #24
Join Date
Sep 2012
Posts
1,789

Quote Originally Posted by Dan '82 View Post
I've created a fourth turning forum on Yuku available here:

http://fourthturning.yuku.com/

I haven’t set up any sub forums yet, but I’ll work on getting the new forum up to snuff in the next two weeks. If anyone has any suggestion for new sub forums let me know.


I wish this forum would simply be turned off without all the old threads being deleted.
Are you going to be able to ignore/control Pbrower2? From the view of management, PB to me would be a management/mangers/moderators nightmare.







Post#25 at 04-29-2016 08:15 AM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,597]
---
04-29-2016, 08:15 AM #25
Join Date
Sep 2009
Location
Alabama
Posts
1,597

Quote Originally Posted by Classic-X'er View Post
Are you going to be able to ignore/control Pbrower2? From the view of management, PB to me would be a management/mangers/moderators nightmare.
Although I frequently disagree with pbrower2, his posts contribute to the civil dialogue.
-----------------------------------------