Just going to say it.

Boomer, Demagogue, completely new direction for the nation (nationalism), surging and unexpected popularity

Just as I said, the crisis does not need to go the way we want, and it probably wont.

let the tears flow.

I will repeat for the millionth time, the GC is the archetypal role of the Prophet generation in Elderhood, not a particular person.

Trump, Sanders, Warren, and many others are all "Gray Champions".

Trump is not an inspirational unifying leader cutting across broad demographic clusters. He's at the head of the fading white middle class non college educated / undergraduate college educated. The people who were comfortable during the 1T but slowly lost their balance after that. They look at the US and ask "what happened to my Christian, Anglo Saxon version of Bedrock, I no longer shout yabba, dubba, doo with glee." This is a desperate attempt to turn back the clock and make things all Mil Saec 1T again. Good luck with that!

Originally Posted by Odin

I will repeat for the millionth time, the GC is the archetypal role of the Prophet generation in Elderhood, not a particular person.

Trump, Sanders, Warren, and many others are all "Gray Champions".

Sanders, strictly speaking, is not a Prophet, although he certainly is playing the part.

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

Sanders, strictly speaking, is not a Prophet, although he certainly is playing the part.

Technically true, but he IS a War Baby cusper and seems more Prophet than Artist.

Originally Posted by XYMOX_4AD_84

Trump is not an inspirational unifying leader cutting across broad demographic clusters. He's at the head of the fading white middle class non college educated / undergraduate college educated. The people who were comfortable during the 1T but slowly lost their balance after that. They look at the US and ask "what happened to my Christian, Anglo Saxon version of Bedrock, I no longer shout yabba, dubba, doo with glee." This is a desperate attempt to turn back the clock and make things all Mil Saec 1T again. Good luck with that!

News is coming in that there are those in the GOP who refuse to vote for Trump. There are even those who have defected to the other party.

Originally Posted by Odin

I will repeat for the millionth time, the GC is the archetypal role of the Prophet generation in Elderhood, not a particular person.

Trump, Sanders, Warren, and many others are all "Gray Champions".

Good point.

Trump is not an inspirational unifying leader cutting across broad demographic clusters. He's at the head of the fading white middle class non college educated / undergraduate college educated

but he is? He has a wide demographic, much wider than Romney did.

Originally Posted by Debol1990

Just going to say it.

Boomer, Demagogue, completely new direction for the nation (nationalism), surging and unexpected popularity

Just as I said, the crisis does not need to go the way we want, and it probably wont.

let the tears flow.

Not sure that a guy headed to being on the losing end of the most one-sided election since Nixon-McGovern would be anyone's GC.

But whatever floats your boat...

Originally Posted by XYMOX_4AD_84

Trump is not an inspirational unifying leader cutting across broad demographic clusters. He's at the head of the fading white middle class non college educated / undergraduate college educated. The people who were comfortable during the 1T but slowly lost their balance after that. They look at the US and ask "what happened to my Christian, Anglo Saxon version of Bedrock, I no longer shout yabba, dubba, doo with glee." This is a desperate attempt to turn back the clock and make things all Mil Saec 1T again. Good luck with that!

LMAO!
Bam-bam! Bam-bam!

Originally Posted by Odin

I will repeat for the millionth time, the GC is the archetypal role of the Prophet generation in Elderhood, not a particular person.

Trump, Sanders, Warren, and many others are all "Gray Champions".

Well, you are allowed to redefine the phrase and use it as you like, but your are not Noah Webster, and you are out touch with the common usage common to these boards.

Me, I'm doubtful a Champion ought to be truly anointed until the 4T 1T cusp. Only then will it be clear what the new values are, who best personifies said values, and who was at the center of making the new values work in crisis. The Champion might best be identified with the benefit of 20 20 hindsight. While folks like Lincoln and FDR are revered after they are safely dead, during the heat of the crisis they are controversial, reviled as well as respected.

The three you mention above - Trump, Sanders and Warren - strongly project possible new values. Still, they might be representatives of the extreme, more like Thomas Paine or William Lloyd Garrison than Lincoln or FDR. The central figure that gets anointed often implements the new values, but has to be a practical compromiser as well as a moral anchor point. Tough gig, that.

Of the three, Trump seems least like a moral and values anchor. Then again, that might be because his values do not resonate with mine at all.

Originally Posted by Debol1990

Just going to say it.

Boomer, Demagogue, completely new direction for the nation (nationalism), surging and unexpected popularity

Just as I said, the crisis does not need to go the way we want, and it probably wont.

let the tears flow.

Some months back, in the Election 2016 thread I claimed that I believed that Trump was the GC (assuming those exist beyond myth), and that he furthermore represented the Jacksonian tradition.

Instead of sitting there transfixed with whether The Dumpster is the Second Coming or Beelzebub, why not do something useful and gather some information on the emerging trends -

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/...nto-the-breach

The Great Moment Has Arrived, People!

Now that Donald Trump is definitively the Republican nominee, it's time to see whether he can unite the party. Who will endorse him? Will more than nine people stay in the #NeverTrump minyan? We want to help you track who's endorsing, who's not and the various grey areas of awkwardness in between. So starting this afternoon, after consulting statisticians, political scientists and ourselves, we've derived this five part taxonomy.

They are: 1) Endorse, 2) "Supporting the Nominee", 3) Mum's the Word, 4) Fuzzball and 5) NeverTrump.

Some of these are self-explanatory. Endorse is reserved for people who actually endorse or explicitly say they're supporting Trump's candidacy. NeverTrump is equally clearly but we're keeping it tight. You get included in you're definitively not voting for Trump, supporting another candidate etc.

From there things get a bit fuzzier.

"Supporting the Nominee" is an increasingly common designation. Sens. Ayotte and McCain are in. They're supporting - at least we can say that by deductive reasoning. They're supporting the nominee and Trump is the nominee. Ergo, according to that Games Section I studied for on the LSAT, that means they're supporting Trump. But they are still unwilling to actually utter Trump's name, which suggests a certain tepidness in their enthusiasm for The Donald. Let's call this a theoretical support which is so minimal that the supporter is unwilling to say the name of the person they're suporting.

Mum's the Word means you're refusing to comment, running from the cameras.

Fuzzball requires the greatest explanation. The fuzzball designation is reserved for the many elected officials who are making various nonsensical statements or arguments just to avoid answering the question. They're fuzzing it up, but generally not well. So for instance, today, Sen Susan Collins says she'll consider supporting Trump if he starts being nice to people. What?

So that is our five part dichotomy. We'll be debuting our list today. If you have examples, please send them in. We'll be recording the positions of members of Congress, former presidential candidates and governors.

You're welcome.

One of the ones I'm going to track is this guy -

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...resident-again

Glenn Beck Melts Down Over Trump: We’ll ‘Never Have Another GOP Prez Ever Again’ (VIDEO)

Given the inevitable outcome this Fall, this election is proving to be more fun than a barrel of monkeys on Acid.

This is a great video ad about "Trump, the Uniter."

Check the various GOP 'stars' as some good ones to watch for the "endorse/support/mums/fuzzball/never" trends.





Gad, this is going to be fun!

Here's the best example of a 'support, but no endorse' -

http://www.unionleader.com/primary-p...rump--20160504

NH Sen. Ayotte will support - but not endorse - Trump

Sen. Kelly Ayotte, R-N.H., has been saying for months that she will support the Republican nominee for President, whoever that turns out to be.

Today, her campaign office released a statement saying Ayotte will support Donald Trump, who became the presumptive Republican nominee Tuesday night with Sen. Ted Cruz’s departure from the Republican primary race.

“As she's said from the beginning, Kelly plans to support the nominee. As a candidate herself, she hasn't and isn't planning to endorse anyone this cycle,” said Liz Johnson, communications director for Kelly for New Hampshire.

Johnson said the senator is not endorsing Trump.

Does she think her NH t-baggers are going to be enthusiastic with her lukewarm "support" and at the same time her lack of a ringing "endorse" going to placate NH indies who are not racist/misogynists?

Like I said, this is fun!

Fuzzballs are the most entertaining however -

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/el...ment-scorecard

Fuzzballs

Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME) said she has always voted for the Republican nominee for president in the past, but wouldn't say whether she would support Trump.

Donald Trump has the opportunity to unite the party, but if he’s going to build that wall that he keeps talking about, he’s going to have to mend a lot of fences. He’s going to have stop with the gratuitous, personal insults.

Sen. Robert Portman (R-OH) said he would support the Republican nominee "unless something crazy happens." Portman was asked to clarify if that meant he would support Trump:

We’ll see, won’t we? We’ll see.

Rep. David Jolly (R-FL) said he was unsure how he would vote in the general election if Trump was the nominee. Jolly had called on Trump to drop out of the race after he proposed a ban on Muslims from entering the country.

If you’re asking me in April my position on Donald Trump in November, I don’t know what Donald Trump is going to be standing for in November. And so I’m certainly not going to take a position five or six months out.

Rep. Steve King (R-IA) told Fox New's Neil Cavuto after Sen. Ted Cruz dropped out that he wouldn't commit to voting for Trump in the general election.

I want to support the nominee that's produced by the rules. He's the perspective nominee and I offer Donald Trump the next two-and-a-half months to sell to the rest of the Republicans his case. I want to hear it, my ears are open. I hope to be able to come together in Cleveland. But I think Donald Trump's got to do some outreach.

Notice the two GOP Senators up for re-election this November?

This is 'badly' awesome!

Originally Posted by playwrite

Here's the best example of a 'support, but no endorse' -

http://www.unionleader.com/primary-p...rump--20160504



Does she think her NH t-baggers are going to be enthusiastic with her lukewarm "support" and at the same time her lack of a ringing "endorse" going to placate NH indies who are not racist/misogynists?

Like I said, this is fun!

I hope to God that you are right about Trump being blown out in an election. However....

I am old enough to remember 1980 (and you are too), when liberals were gleeful about the prospect of running against that old has-been actor with the extremist positions. We both remember what happened.

Here's the 6 GOP Senators considered to be in toss up states -

FL (Rubio) - Rubio is not running, many t-baggers running to replace; most likely is a Scientologist. FL is so cool!

Kirk (IL)

Ayotte (NH)

Portman (OH)

Toomey (PA)

Johnson (WI)

Here's the one considered to be GOP leaning -

Burr (NC)

And 6 more considered to be "likely" rather than "solid" GOP -

Murkowski (AK)

McCain (AZ)

Isakson (GA)

IN (Coats)

Grassley (IA)

Blunt (MO)

For fun, Google these names with "Senator" out front and add "trump" and "endorsement." Be sure to add the search tool time filter "week."

As an example -

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...n-trump-222795

Burr, though, won't be attending the GOP convention. Neither will Ayotte, Johnson or GOP Sens. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, John McCain of Arizona, Mark Kirk of Illinois, Jerry Moran of Kansas or Roy Blunt of Missouri.

Oh, and as for Reid's open seat in Nevada, it was pretty much neck-and-neck between the likely Dem Catherine Cortez Masto and GOP Joe Heck candidates. But late April polling of the Latino vote showed a huge distrust of all things GOP and a spike up in voter registration, and that was before this week's anointment of Trump as beloved GOP leader.

Good times.

GC, my ass.

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

I hope to God that you are right about Trump being blown out in an election. However....

I am old enough to remember 1980 (and you are too), when liberals were gleeful about the prospect of running against that old has-been actor with the extremist positions. We both remember what happened.

Yep, we should not even consider resting on our laurels. If it is headed for a blowout, we need to make it as big a blowout as possible - we need to destroy the GOP as a national political power and dance on its grave.

I don't want to take away any of the motivation for that!

However, this is a good place to start for a little more cerebral exercise -

http://www.redstate.com/dan_mclaughl...ronald-reagan/

- to show that 2016 is not 1980... particularly in regard to today's polling capacity as compared to the near-monopoly (and proven very wrong) Gallup polling of 1980. Note the Nate Silver reference.

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

I hope to God that you are right about Trump being blown out in an election. However....

I am old enough to remember 1980 (and you are too), when liberals were gleeful about the prospect of running against that old has-been actor with the extremist positions. We both remember what happened.

Trump has defied the pundits--and the odds--from the outset. [I likewise dismissed his candidacy, though not the danger that his message posed.] Early matchup polls now have him trailing Clinton by double-digit margins. Lest we forget, early polls had Sanders even further behind Hillary a year ago, and he closed the gap with her substantially. Trump has been underestimated all along. A lot can happen between now and November, and I for one cannot categorically rule out a stunning upset in the general election.

I think a Clinton-Trump contest is going to tighten up a lot. Trump knows how to press "buttons" of his opponents (exhibit Carly Fiorina's face, Cruz's wife and father) and so I see Hillary having a few moments similar to what she did during the Benghazi questioning. I mean really, if he can get a steady Ted Cruz to virtually flip-out after his father is accused by Trump to have conspired with Lee Harvey Oswald there is a lot of fodder for the same with Hillary, who will get more and more desperate if the polls tighten up.

I feel like we're that much closer to a four-way contest. It sort of seems to me that primaries are only suggesting who a party should nominate rather than requiring that the winner of the primaries be nominated. The party conventions are going to be very interesting.

Originally Posted by Teacher in Exile

Trump has defied the pundits--and the odds--from the outset. [I likewise dismissed his candidacy, though not the danger that his message posed.] Early matchup polls now have him trailing Clinton by double-digit margins. Lest we forget, early polls had Sanders even further behind Hillary a year ago, and he closed the gap with her substantially. Trump has been underestimated all along. A lot can happen between now and November, and I for one cannot categorically rule out a stunning upset in the general election.

The Republican nomination is not the general election. There are more people voting this time. What Trump has been doing in the GOP race will most likely backfire.

Originally Posted by naf140230

The Republican nomination is not the general election. There are more people voting this time. What Trump has been doing in the GOP race will most likely backfire.

Exactly.

Thinking that the GOP primary provides a roadmap for the General is a classic example of "fighting the last war."

Every time Trump opens his mouth, he is going to make the majority of general election voters want to vomit. And he has already opened his mouth one too many times.

Originally Posted by Coskin84

I think a Clinton-Trump contest is going to tighten up a lot. Trump knows how to press "buttons" of his opponents (exhibit Carly Fiorina's face, Cruz's wife and father) and so I see Hillary having a few moments similar to what she did during the Benghazi questioning. I mean really, if he can get a steady Ted Cruz to virtually flip-out after his father is accused by Trump to have conspired with Lee Harvey Oswald there is a lot of fodder for the same with Hillary, who will get more and more desperate if the polls tighten up.

I feel like we're that much closer to a four-way contest. It sort of seems to me that primaries are only suggesting who a party should nominate rather than requiring that the winner of the primaries be nominated. The party conventions are going to be very interesting.

Ted Cruz is not Hillary Clinton. Ted would not have lasted 10 minutes in front of something like the Benghazi Committee. Clinton not only lasted 11 hours but tore them all a new asshole.

Here's one way to neuter Trump's schtick -

The Clinton campaign needs to demand equal time from any news outlet that gives Trump an on-air telephone interview. They should demand equal time for a phone interview, or make the news outlet provide a very very expensive political ad time for free. The news outlet will go for it - both to save a lot of money and for the entertainment/ratings.

Every time Trump gets on the phone with the news, it is followed up immediately by a Clinton surrogate taking on the idiocy that he has just provided - it becomes part of the instant response of the war room that the Dems excel at. The object - to make Trump come across as the clown that he is.

This should be done by Clinton surrogates, not Clinton herself. Starting with campaign types, moving up to Bill, then to Dem Senators, after the convention Sanders and Warren, then Biden, and then the big guy, himself, Obama, some time in September. Trump is made to look like the idiot he is, and Hillary stays above it all and Presidential. Game over.

Paul Ryan goes full-on fuzzball!

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/05/politi...nee/index.html

Paul Ryan: 'I'm just not ready' to back Donald Trump

House Speaker Paul Ryan said Thursday he cannot yet support presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump's presidential campaign.

"I'm just not ready to do that at this point. I'm not there right now," the Wisconsin Republican told CNN's "The Lead with Jake Tapper" in an interview.

Ryan's position makes him the highest-level GOP official to reject Trump since the real estate mogul became the last candidate standing in the party's nominating contest.

He said he hopes to eventually back Trump and "to be a part of this unifying process." The first moves, though, must come from Trump, he said.

Ryan said he wants Trump to unify "all wings of the Republican Party and the conservative movement" and then run a campaign that will allow Americans to "have something that they're proud to support and proud to be a part of."

"And we've got a ways to go from here to there," Ryan said.

Asked whether Trump's proposed Muslim ban, his opposition to free trade and his call to deport 12 million undocumented immigrants would preclude him from ever supporting Trump, Ryan said: "We got work to do."

Ryan's comments were striking because Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said Wednesday night that he'd back Trump.

Neither of the last two Republican presidents -- George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush -- will attend the GOP convention in Cleveland. Nor will the 2008 nominee, John McCain, or the 2012 nominee, Mitt Romney.

The House speaker said he'd only started considering whether he'd support Trump after the real estate mogul won Indiana's primary Tuesday -- knocking both Texas Sen. Ted Cruz and Ohio Gov. John Kasich out of the race and ending the possibility of a contested convention.

"I thought about this two days ago. I thought, actually, this thing was going to go to June 7 at the very least -- probably to a convention -- and so this is all pretty new for us," he said.

"The bulk of the burden on unifying the party will have to come from our presumptive nominee," Ryan said. "I don't want to underplay what he accomplished. ... But he also inherits something very special, that's very special to a lot of us. This is the party of Lincoln and Reagan and Jack Kemp. And we don't always nominate a Lincoln or a Reagan every four years, but we hope that our nominee aspires to be Lincoln- or Reagan-esque -- that that person advances the principles of our party and appeals to a wide, vast majority of Americans."

He continued: "And so, I think what is necessary to make this work, for this to unify, is to actually take our principles and advance them. And that's what we want to see. Saying we're unified doesn't in and of itself unify us, but actually taking the principles that we all believe in, showing that there's a dedication to those, and running a principled campaign that Republicans can be proud about and that can actually appeal to a majority of Americans -- that, to me, is what it takes to unify this party."

Ryan has expressed misgivings about Trump's campaign for months.

When Trump proposed indefinitely banning Muslims from the United States in December, Ryan responded that such a move is "not who we are as a party" and in violation of the Constitution.

"This is not conservatism," he said then, adding, "Some of our best and biggest allies in this struggle and fight against radical Islam terror are Muslims."

So Ryan currently thinks that Trump doesn't have anything now for Americans to be proud about? Pretty funny!

Also note the Bushes will not be attending the GOP convention - fuzeballing by absentia?