Is the SNES the best gaming console to ever be released? You Bet!

This year's E3 featured the next generation systems from M$, Sony, and Nintendo. Microsoft displayed the XBOX 360, Sony the PS3, and Nintendo the Wii. All three gaming systems will feature extensive online multiplayer capabilities. Not much new in the PC gaming department. The PC gaming industry is not defined by five year periods of hardware technology. Rather, the technology is continuously updated. One game that is destined to be a hit is Enemy Territory: Quake Wars. Anyone who has played the original Return to Castle Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory will see why. For those who haven't, download it (the first Enemy Territory is a free download) and savor.

Nintendo's Wii is currently the most popular gaming system on the show floor. It has a motion sensitive remote as the main controller. Oddly, the remote offers posibilities for control that far exceeds any "game pad". The name of the system is Wii. It has no particular meaning. Nintendo says that Wii is supposed to be universal, also signifying "we", which is "the sound of inclusion". Nintendo's strategy is to bring everyone (not just gamers) into gaming. After 21 years, Nintendo is reviving the Duck Hunt franchise.

Good to see ya back here, GOR.

But hey - my gaming days went out with Ms. Pac Man, Spy Hunter and Mr. Do!

Originally Posted by Rashad Blutarsky

Good to see ya back here, GOR.

But hey - my gaming days went out with Ms. Pac Man, Spy Hunter and Mr. Do!

What's Spy Hunter and Mr. Do?

Spy Hunter

Mr. Do!

At a recent family gathering, I was introduced to the phenomenon known as geocaching. It's basically scavenger hunting with a GPS.

Sounds like a blast. Has anyone here tried it?

I was reading on the history of the SNES, when I read upon the console war. If you were a gamer between this time, were you on a side? During those wars, I sided with Nintendo. On the wikipedia article, it said: "Many (particularly younger) gamers labeled themselves as either a Nintendo fan or a Sega fan, as though the two were mutually exclusive. Even single-format magazines got in on the rivalry, with attacks at each other's hardware and software fuelling the flames of fanboyism."

Were you a fanboy? If so, who did you sided with? The entry also stated that fanboyism was greater among the younger gamers of the time. Is this true, first of all? And if so, would a split between Millies and Xers be a reason?

Originally Posted by Wiz83

I had the Genesis so I would have to say I was with the Genesis camp though I still enjoyed playing SNES at my cousin's house. I did have an SNES when it was brand new for a short period of time until it was stolen by burglars on June 27, 1992 while we were out camping. That was quite unfortunate but I got a Sega the following X-Mas and from that point on I was hooked to my games. A few of my favorites included Mortal Kombat I and II, Sonic the Hedgehog 1, 2, and 3, and Street Fighter II. I am still wondering whether S&H would classify the 16-bit era as Xr or Millie? I would have to classify it as Xr/Millie cusper. The Pac-Man/8-bit eras were core Xr while the Next Generation era of Playstation, N64, X-box were very much core Millie.

I wouldn't say that any era is for Millennial or Xers. I would say that Nintendo is a very Millennial -oriented company, the company (and legendary Shigeru Miyamoto) may be our generation's Disney. But gaming has targetted Xers their entire lives. Mortal Kombat was likely aimed for late wave Xers rather than Millennial kids. The 16-bit era is the time when Millennials really began to make their impact on gaming, and also when games were increasingly targeted to Millennial. In 1995, however, the focus in the industry moved largely in the direction of late wave Xers with the release of the Playstation. Nintendo, however, continued to target the younger market. Focus moved back towards Millies sometime between 2000 and 2005, as all gaming platforms are now moving online, and have wifi capability. The Wii, PS3, 360, DS, and PSP all have wifi functionality built in. So gaming is kinda broad at this point. You have games like Manhunt and Quake 4 which is definitely targeted towards Xer gamers. Then there is Metroid Prime, which is targeted towards the Millie age bracket. So I think that Xers will always make up a large segment of the general gamer act bracket. In 2030, Xers will still be playing games. They will still play their Pac Man. They will play their Doom. And Millies will still play their Sonic, Mario, Zelda, etc. And the Homelander and Neo-Prophets will have their own arenas of gaming.

Originally Posted by Mr. Reed

I wouldn't say that any era is for Millennial or Xers. I would say that Nintendo is a very Millennial -oriented company, the company (and legendary Shigeru Miyamoto) may be our generation's Disney. But gaming has targetted Xers their entire lives. Mortal Kombat was likely aimed for late wave Xers rather than Millennial kids. The 16-bit era is the time when Millennials really began to make their impact on gaming, and also when games were increasingly targeted to Millennial. In 1995, however, the focus in the industry moved largely in the direction of late wave Xers with the release of the Playstation. Nintendo, however, continued to target the younger market. Focus moved back towards Millies sometime between 2000 and 2005, as all gaming platforms are now moving online, and have wifi capability. The Wii, PS3, 360, DS, and PSP all have wifi functionality built in. So gaming is kinda broad at this point. You have games like Manhunt and Quake 4 which is definitely targeted towards Xer gamers. Then there is Metroid Prime, which is targeted towards the Millie age bracket. So I think that Xers will always make up a large segment of the general gamer act bracket. In 2030, Xers will still be playing games. They will still play their Pac Man. They will play their Doom. And Millies will still play their Sonic, Mario, Zelda, etc. And the Homelander and Neo-Prophets will have their own arenas of gaming.

My brother (1981 cohort) and I would often play the very games that you are mentioning, and I can tell you that the NES is very Xer, the Xer game extending to such early SNES games such as Final fantasy II (IV). Most SNES games are first-wave millie and cusper games and these are the ones that we bought in the greatest numbers; these include final fantasys VI and mystic quest, chrono trigger, etc. Nintendo went core/second-wave millie with the N64 at which point Xers and X-leaning cuspers such as my brother checked out and core millies checked in. First-wave millie continued with nintendo for a couple more years but generally switched to the playstation by the time Final fantasy VIII came out. I also found that not only Xers but Boomers also like gore-type games such as DOOM and wolfenstein; my father has both of those.

Originally Posted by Cynic Hero '86

My brother (1981 cohort) and I would often play the very games that you are mentioning, and I can tell you that the NES is very Xer, the Xer game extending to such early SNES games such as Final fantasy II (IV). Most SNES games are first-wave millie and cusper games and these are the ones that we bought in the greatest numbers; these include final fantasys VI and mystic quest, chrono trigger, etc. Nintendo went core/second-wave millie with the N64 at which point Xers and X-leaning cuspers such as my brother checked out and core millies checked in. First-wave millie continued with nintendo for a couple more years but generally switched to the playstation by the time Final fantasy VIII came out. I also found that not only Xers but Boomers also like gore-type games such as DOOM and wolfenstein; my father has both of those.

I agree that NES was Xer. I think Nintendo started going Millie when they released Super Mario Brothers 3. That was an awesome game.

I used to see Doom and Wolfenstein as gore-type games. But after playing Quake, Mortal Kombat, Unreal Tournament, Manhunt, and other really gory games, I have trouble seeing Doom and Wolfenstein as being gory games. Yeah, there is a little blood here and there, but no brains, intestines, hearts, limbs, or other bloody "gibblets" of flesh.

Of all of the eras of gaming, which one do you consider the golden era?

Originally Posted by Mr. Reed

I agree that NES was Xer. I think Nintendo started going Millie when they released Super Mario Brothers 3. That was an awesome game.

I used to see Doom and Wolfenstein as gore-type games. But after playing Quake, Mortal Kombat, Unreal Tournament, Manhunt, and other really gory games, I have trouble seeing Doom and Wolfenstein as being gory games. Yeah, there is a little blood here and there, but no brains, intestines, hearts, limbs, or other bloody "gibblets" of flesh.

Of all of the eras of gaming, which one do you consider the golden era?

I Generally consider the late NES/SNES/Sega through PS1 era to be the golden age of gaming, gaming in my opinion has slowly declined since the PS2 and XBOX came out.

Originally Posted by Mr. Reed

I agree that NES was Xer. I think Nintendo started going Millie when they released Super Mario Brothers 3. That was an awesome game.

I used to see Doom and Wolfenstein as gore-type games. But after playing Quake, Mortal Kombat, Unreal Tournament, Manhunt, and other really gory games, I have trouble seeing Doom and Wolfenstein as being gory games. Yeah, there is a little blood here and there, but no brains, intestines, hearts, limbs, or other bloody "gibblets" of flesh.

Of all of the eras of gaming, which one do you consider the golden era?

Dear Mr. Reed,

Only Poultrine-Americans (even in games) have "gibblets*" (sic); Bovine-Americans and Homo-Americans produce gobbets when made less than whole.


*One b too many.

Yo. Ob. Sv.

Is it me, or has the MSM been unusually attentive to the launch of the Wii and PS3? The people camping out for the systems, looked to be mostly Millies and Xers. Have you gotten yours yet? If so, what do you think? Which system do you want? What games do you want to get your hands on?

Originally Posted by Mr. Reed

In fact, I'm predicting that the period after 2005 will mark a second golden era in gaming, mainly because of the maturation of internet technologies and of 3D techniques.

Could the release of The Sims and The Sims 2 be a marker of what 3D technique has in store?

I also would proposition that the computer gaming industry is for the most part geared toward millies and has been since about the mid 90's.

Originally Posted by Cynic Hero '86

I also would proposition that the computer gaming industry is for the most part geared toward millies and has been since about the mid 90's.

Because of the rise in online gaming?

Of all of the sports video games in existence, I would probably say that the Madden franchise is by far the most popular and has been by far the most successful. I didn't get into football video games with Madden, though. I did it with NFL2K for the Dreamcast. I liked the Sega/ESPN NFL games better than the Madden series, but EA eventually acquired exclusive rights to use NFL players and teams, eventually forcing the NFL2Kx series to cease production. Madden is still a very good franchise, though.

Lots of Millies play Madden. It is a favorite game of some of my cousins, and some uncles. According to the article, kids who try out for football tend to know much more about the sport than before because they have played Madden. Madden himself lamented that to Millies, "Madden is something they play" rather than a historic figure who played and coached football (as vindicated by Wikipedia's playing of the game before the person in their disambiguation page).

A Virtual Chalkboard For Budding NFL Fans

By Les Carpenter
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, December 5, 2006; A01

T.J. Won was not born into football. He did not grow up the son of a coach. He did not play the game in high school. In fact, the sum of his playing experience consists of throwing the ball with friends in his home town of Milpitas, Calif., after watching San Francisco 49ers games on television.

But in front of his television now, he notices the kinds of details coaches pick up.

"I used to see people lining up and blocking people," said Won, a junior accounting major at Georgetown University. "Now I see players blocking in the flats, helping protection. You know where the quarterbacks want to throw."

He arrived at this knowledge not by hanging around coaches' offices or studying game tapes. He learned it all from a video game -- Madden NFL.

This is a phenomenon the National Football League never could have anticipated. In a world in which 53 million copies of the game have been sold in the last 17 years -- the latest version sold an unprecedented two million copies in its first weekend of release last summer -- Madden has provided the league a perfect conduit to its next generation of fans. And all because of attention to arcane details that has demystified the complexities of football to a population that never before understood them.

"How else would I ever know what Cover-2 was?" Won said, referring to the widely used pass-defense alignment.

Professional sports leagues -- concerned that young people were turning to pro wrestling or action sports such as skateboarding or motocross -- have spent millions trying to find the soul of the 15-to-25 year-old fan. They have invested in youth programs, TV shows and even cartoons, figuring one would be the magic elixir that will make their game the next hot thing. Who knew that for the NFL it would be something the league had little to do with creating?

There are no statistics that conclusively link Madden to the NFL's next generation of fans. But a poll taken last year for the NFL said 22 percent of 12-to-17 year olds in the United States consider the NFL their favorite sport. The next closest, baseball, was at 13 percent. And given that NFL video games sold 6.2 million copies last year -- almost double that of the next most popular sport -- the NFL is sure there is a solid connection.

Kids' "use of technology is different than a generation ago," said Lisa Baird, the NFL's senior vice president for marketing. "They are programmed differently than we are. They are wired differently than we are. We are getting increasingly smarter about the way kids act."

But the popularity of the Madden game, named after Hall of Fame coach and NBC Sports analyst John Madden, has done more than broaden the game's reach to younger people. It has achieved something that for years was considered impossible. Because it has managed to replicate the actual offenses and defenses used in the NFL today, it has in essence demystified the game.

"There's no question it's the video game that's bringing in teenagers," said Marc Ganis, the president of Sportscorp Ltd., a sports consulting firm based in Chicago. "It's educating young fans on the NFL terminologies and making them more sophisticated about the plays on the field.

"But it's also bringing more fans into this very arcane, jargon-driven environment. If you watch the game on TV nowadays, the announcers -- especially the color men -- are using these very technical football terms. They expect the fans to understand it."

It was probably only a matter of time before the Madden game got to this point. The technology has improved to the point that the players look almost real, as do the stadiums in the background. The NFL, in an attempt at control and also in response to demands from Electronic Arts, the game's maker, for more authenticity, has provided most of the teams' offenses and defenses that are then programmed into the game.

Every year the league sends its officials to Orlando, where EA Sports produces the Madden game. The officials go over every play to see if it would be allowed in a real game, pointing out flaws sure to be penalized on the field, such as excessive celebrations or illegal formations. If a defensive player is particularly fast when chasing down a wide receiver, that will be reflected in the game.

"I think the game has made a better-informed fan, a more sophisticated fan," said Leo Kane, the NFL's senior director for consumer products.

By giving its players entry to the playbooks and the details of defenses, the Madden game has narrowed what once was a daunting divide between those fans who had played football and those who never did. While baseball and basketball have always been easy games to understand, the barrier football had to regular fans is they often had no idea what really was going on.

"It allows you to understand the game of football rather than just throwing the football around the backyard," said Alex Boyce, a junior at Georgetown Day School.

While Boyce said he is a casual player of Madden, playing once or twice a week, he can still turn on a Washington Redskins game, glance at the players lined up and immediately tell if the defensive team has its "nickel" defense, in which five players line up in pass coverage, or "dime" defense, which uses six players against the pass, on the field.

Rick Conner, the football coach at Linganore High School in Frederick, says his sixth grade son gets up at 8 in the morning to squeeze in a game of Madden before he leaves for school, only to play for several more hours once he gets home. "The fact he is more attuned to schemes and plays is amazing," he said.

The sophistication of the kids trying out for high school football has improved so much that the Linganore coaches will often ask a player who is struggling to grasp some concept of offense or defense, "Do you play Madden?"

"These kids know what a split formation is. They know how to flood a zone because of this game," Conner said, using coach-speak for an offensive formation and a method for beating a zone pass defense.

Back in 1986 no one could have imagined this. That's when Electronic Arts approached Madden about putting his name on a new football video game it was developing. The graphics were simplistic, the players, who lined up seven-on-seven, were indistinguishable blobs. At the time it was cutting edge. Madden loved the idea but balked at the watered-down concept. In a meeting that has now become legend around the NFL offices, the old coach and broadcaster said the game had to be 11-on-11 or else it wouldn't be real football.

And if it wasn't real football, kids would not want to buy it. He turned out to be right.

Originally titled John Madden Football, the game sold quickly in its first year of release in 1989, grew steadily through the 1990s as the graphics improved, then exploded in the last few years. Madden, whose voice narrates the action, still consults with EA Sports on the game.

"I can tell you sitting in meetings 13 years ago no one knew it was going to sell 2 million copies," Kane said.

No one could have expected that it would come to educate a generation of fans on football the way it has.

"I don't want to say it was a surprise," said Chris Erb, director of marketing for EA Sports. "When you have something that authentic you expect it will have success. But it was never an intended effect."

*Bump*

Originally Posted by Mr. Reed

I've became a semi-cult fan of Squaresoft.

I'm of the opinion that FF6 was the greatest RPG of all time. And yes, thank God from ROMs and emulators.

Originally Posted by Mr. Reed

I was reading on the history of the SNES, when I read upon the console war. If you were a gamer between this time, were you on a side? During those wars, I sided with Nintendo. On the wikipedia article, it said: "Many (particularly younger) gamers labeled themselves as either a Nintendo fan or a Sega fan, as though the two were mutually exclusive. Even single-format magazines got in on the rivalry, with attacks at each other's hardware and software fuelling the flames of fanboyism."

Were you a fanboy? If so, who did you sided with? The entry also stated that fanboyism was greater among the younger gamers of the time. Is this true, first of all? And if so, would a split between Millies and Xers be a reason?

I was a major Nintendo fanboy untill the late 90's, when they started to go all kiddie games all the time (or maybe it was just because I was getting to old for all the kiddie games). The N64 was also severely lacking in the RPG department because Squarsoft had dumped Nintendo when the Playstation came out (BTW, the Playstation was originally supposed to be a joint project between Sony and Nintendo, but the deal fell through).

Originally Posted by Odin

I was a major Nintendo fanboy untill the late 90's, when they started to go all kiddie games all the time (or maybe it was just because I was getting to old for all the kiddie games). The N64 was also severely lacking in the RPG department because Squarsoft had dumped Nintendo when the Playstation came out (BTW, the Playstation was originally supposed to be a joint project between Sony and Nintendo, but the deal fell through).

And I was waiting anxiously for the SNES CD to come out too. It wasn't until about 1993 or 1994 when I finally realized that it was never coming out. :-(

Originally Posted by Odin

*Bump*



I'm of the opinion that FF6 was the greatest RPG of all time. And yes, thank God from ROMs and emulators.

Final Fantasys IV and VIII were far better in my opinion. Most of the features in FF6 were already present in FF4. FF8 was just freakin awesome in my opinion, the quintessential game translation of regular life.

Originally Posted by Cynic Hero '86

Final Fantasys IV and VIII were far better in my opinion. Most of the features in FF6 were already present in FF4. FF8 was just freakin awesome in my opinion, the quintessential game translation of regular life.

I though FF8 was OK, though not great. I really didn't like the "draw" system for magic. I haven't played FF4 or FF5 yet but I'm planning to get them for my Game Boy Advance with any money and/or gift cards to Best Buy I get for Christmas

Originally Posted by Cynic Hero '86

Final Fantasys IV and VIII were far better in my opinion. Most of the features in FF6 were already present in FF4. FF8 was just freakin awesome in my opinion, the quintessential game translation of regular life.

FFIV was my first RPG. My father and I were in Alton, IL for some event in 1994. At a pawn shop, my father told me he would buy me a game. Everything there looked like it would really suck. Then I saw the "Final Fantasy II" SNES cart. I remember reading some big feature about a Final Fantasy game (which was "Final Fantasy III" in retrospect) in EGM, so I decided on the Final Fantasy game. I played it for a few minutes and came to the conclusion that it sucked. But I was a little curious about the battle system, so I played on. After the first boss and the subsequent catastrophic event, I became totally hooked. I've played it the most, and is my favorite one. FFIV was very linear, but it was so much fun to play, and had such a good story. The "Spoony Bard" line was classic.

FFV had the worst story of any FF game I played. The arch villain is the most generic one you could conceive. But the battle system more than made up for it. The Job/Ability system is only matched by FFT (I haven't played through it yet). There is nothing like having a Knight who can cast Bahamut. Or White wizard who can attack as well as a Monk. It is one of my favorites.

FFVI was also one of my favorites. One time, I accidently stumbled upon one of the sketch glitches. The rest of the game was rather easy.

FFVII was the most overrated game in history. It is a very good game, but FFVII itself will have to worship at the altar of FFIV and FFVI. I even like FFV better. The five minute long summon spells is a real turn off. One thing I disliked was that there seemed to be only one large technologically advanced megacity (my game KUOP will have lots), while the other towns were still stuck in the pre-technological era.

FFVIII was a good one. Playing it today, I think it was underrated. I do like the futuristic setting of the game. Esthar is one of my favorite game locations.

FFIX was a good one. FFX was very good, and I haven't played FFXI yet. I heard that FFXII is the best one ever.

FFI was good. I haven't yet gotten through FFII or FFIII.

Originally Posted by Odin

I though FF8 was OK, though not great. I really didn't like the "draw" system for magic. I haven't played FF4 or FF5 yet but I'm planning to get them for my Game Boy Advance with any money and/or gift cards to Best Buy I get for Christmas

You haven't played those until you have played them on ZSNES or SNES9X. I hated the Draw system at first. But it grew on me. There is nothing like drawing magic for five minutes until you are full, and then unleashing the fury of spells, and nothing like draw-casting a cure spell.

I thought this was hilarious: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZYQ7ZkhRgI