To all:

The purpose of this poll is to test whether generational views are
correlated with political views for the people in this forum.

I'd like to ask as many people as possible to respond, in order to
get a decent sample.

If you vote after the Presidential election, then please vote as you
would have for the days or months preceding the election.

The purpose of the poll is to see if political views (as measured by
preference for Bush or Kerry) is correlated to generational views (as
measured by belief we're in 3T or 4T).

If it turns out that there's a correlation, then we can discuss
whether generational views influence political views, or vice versa.

Sincerely,

John

John J. Xenakis
E-mail: john@GenerationalDynamics.com
Web site: http://www.GenerationalDynamics.com

Okay,

Option 1, Bush and 3T.

When I try to line up historic events, 9/11 seems more like Pancho Villa's border raid in 1916 than Pearl Harbor. Remember that the US Army then chased Villa and his band all over the mountains of northern Mexico, until recalled to begin training new recruits for WWI. Bin Laden just has to stay hidden for a few more years (maybe only months) until we get tired of looking for him and/or have bigger commitments elsewhere, like Iraq. Like Wilson, Bush43 has a streak of Do-gooder in him that thinks he can make the world safe for democracy. Unlike Wilson. I think Bush has the tenacity to finish the job he started.


Personal data for the survey:
Born 1961, and I consider myself a GenXer, not a Baby Boomer.

(As an aside, now that the Boomers are starting to retire, why do we keep calling them Babies? Shouldn't we start calling them Geezer Boomers?)
:? :lol:

you're missing the one i would choose-- support kerry and unsure as to 3T/4T.

Originally Posted by earthbound

(As an aside, now that the Boomers are starting to retire, why do we keep calling them Babies? Shouldn't we start calling them Geezer Boomers?)
:? :lol:

i think the authors addressed this, actually. they just refer to them as "boomers", dropping the "baby".


TK

Originally Posted by TrollKing

you're missing the one i would choose-- support kerry and unsure as to 3T/4T.

Originally Posted by earthbound

(As an aside, now that the Boomers are starting to retire, why do we keep calling them Babies? Shouldn't we start calling them Geezer Boomers?)
:? :lol:

i think the authors addressed this, actually. they just refer to them as "boomers", dropping the "baby".


TK

I'm of the opinion that 9/11 was a spark... like someone said elsewhere, it could have ignited a flame, but the tinder was still damp. As he said, it's dry now. And, the Boomers may be headed toward geezerhood, but they still act like babies.

And, I'm a 1960 cohort, one who would far rather be called an Xer than a Boomer. But, whatever....

Your poll does not measure generations; only whether someone thinks we're in 3T or 4T. I don't see any connection between those 2 questions.

My choices
Support GW Bush and North America is still in a 3T.

While I thought after 911the USA had entered a 4T. However it seems clear to me that the USA is still in a 3T. I already concluded long ago that Europe and Australasia are still in a 3T and will be until the end of the decade.

Not much has fundamentally changed in the social and cultural order since 911. Hollywood for example is still clearly in a 3T mode, new taboo's are being broken and celebrity circuses go on and on and in the political arena the conflict is more of less the same that has been waging on for 20 years now, however it seems to be getting more angry and confrontational by the day.

However small changes have been occurring in society that are reflecting a coming mood shift very soon. For example the X'ers are starting to enter a midlife mindset and starting to 'circle the wagons'. Also the term security mom is replacing soccer mom in political circles.

Badnarik, 3T

'49er, Boomer

Kerry, 3T.
Boomer
This election campaign can only be described as an Unraveling.

Kerry, 4T.

Boomer/Xer cusp.

The level of bitterness and animosity in this election...among the general public more so than the candidates themselves... is unlike anything I've ever seen before. It's scary...I see it as part-and-parcel of the sort of Crisis-era mindset that divided America during the Civil War.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Your poll does not measure generations; only whether someone thinks we're in 3T or 4T. I don't see any connection between those 2 questions.

I can only assume he meant "views on Generational/Turning Theory vs. political views".

I support Kerry and am not sure if we're in a 3T or a 4T. The term "Phony Fourth" seems to describe it very well.

In case you're wondering, I'm a late Silent, a "Pluto in Leo" Silent aka Proto-Boomer. Though rejoicing exceedingly that I am NOT a Boomer as of the past few years.

Dear Eric,

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

> Your poll does not measure generations; only whether someone
> thinks we're in 3T or 4T. I don't see any connection between those
> 2 questions.

Well, I would have liked to ask four or five questions, including
"what generation are you in," but that can't be done with this
system.

The 3T/4T is a simple question that, hopefully, indicates how the
respondent views the entire generational paradigm. It's the best I
could think of with a single, simple question. Anything more
complicated and few people would answer.

Sincerely,

John

John J. Xenakis
E-mail: john@GenerationalDynamics.com
Web site: http://www.GenerationalDynamics.com

Voted for Kerry (early), believe we be 3T, but not for much longer!

Xer, 1968 cohort.

Please note, I have always supported Bush, but believed two or three years post 9-11 we were in a 4T. I now believe we are in a very nasty ending of a 3T.

Kerry, 3T, although I think we're just on cruise control until the 4T hits us right in the face.
1950 birthdate
Every time a local radio station tests the emergency broadcast system (Conelrad for those who remember golden oldies) I wonder if this is "It".

Option #3
1976 Xer here.

Kerry/3T

Xer 1973

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

Kerry, 4T.

Boomer/Xer cusp.

The level of bitterness and animosity in this election...among the general public more so than the candidates themselves... is unlike anything I've ever seen before. It's scary...I see it as part-and-parcel of the sort of Crisis-era mindset that divided America during the Civil War.

I agree. I work in the media and I am just amazed at how much all the authority sources I cover (especially Boomers) sincerely hate each other.

I am voting for Kerry, and I'm on the X/Mill. cusp (1979)
I cannot figure out for the life of me whether or not it's a 3T or 4T.
I mean it doesn't feel like the Third Turning felt at its height, but I'm not sure it qualifies on the level of 1775, 1862, or 1933. I see no breadlines, no mass carnage on American soil (post 9-11), no Continental Congress.
It actually seems like a very 3T kind of war with vague goals and no exit strategy - and its architects are old Silents.
I don't see any kind of real decisive action being undertaken, the shenanigans in Iraq aside.

Originally Posted by William Jennings Bryan

Voted for Kerry (early), believe we be 3T, but not for much longer!

Xer, 1968 cohort.

Ditto. (Well, almost. Xer, 1967 cohort.) :wink:

Originally Posted by The Weasel

It actually seems like a very 3T kind of war with vague goals and no exit strategy - and its architects are old Silents.

Justin, I too used to think the architects were Silents, but I don't think so anymore. Look at this list - here are the architects, the Playas:

Paul Wolfowitz - born 1943
Dick Cheney - born 1941 but thinks and acts like 100% Boomer
Condoleesa Rice - 1954
Bill Kristol - born 1952
Karl Rove - born 1950
George W. Bush - born 1946

Rumsfeld and Powell are the Silents, and I think they basically follow orders. Rummy is just more vocal at press time (and when he does get to pontificating, he gets himself into trouble).

Originally Posted by Tom Mazanec

Please note, I have always supported Bush, but believed two or three years post 9-11 we were in a 4T. I now believe we are in a very nasty ending of a 3T.

Really? Your posts do not seem to be those of a Bush supporter? Was this a typo or did I read you completely wrong? :oops:

Dear Sean,

Originally Posted by William Jennings Bryan

> Voted for Kerry (early), believe we be 3T, but not for much
> longer!

> Xer, 1968 cohort.

Why do you believe we won't be in a 3T much longer? Do you have a
specific reason?

I gave a reason why I expected "something big" in 2005 in the
"Objections to Generational Dynamics" thread.
http://fourthturning.com/forums/view...=107582#107582

Is you reason related to that one, or do you have different reasons?

Sincerely,

John

John J. Xenakis
E-mail: john@GenerationalDynamics.com
Web site: http://www.GenerationalDynamics.com

To all:

I started this topic to test the theory that political and
generational views would be correlated.

In particular, my expectation was the following:

(*) Republicans would believe that this is a 4T period, since that
would support the belief that we need a strong leader in the war on
terror, which presumably favors Bush.

(*) Democrats would believe this is a 3T period, since that would
support the belief that the Iraq war was a non-crisis war, which
presumably favors Kerry.

It's obvious from the results of the poll that my expectations were
wrong. The poll showed no correlation whatsoever.

There's been a lot of political fighting in this forum recently, and
one of the accusations (sometimes explicit, sometimes implicit) is
that people take positions on issues war, finance, etc., in order to
justify their political inclinations.

This poll would seem to indicate that's not true.

It's not a very deep poll, and perhaps some day we can do something
deeper. But for the time being, the accusations of correlation
between at least one kind of issue and political inclinations appears
to be false.

As of today (Nov 5), here are the results of the poll:

Pick the option closest to your beliefs, as of 1-Nov-2004:
* 1. I support Bush, and I believe we're in a 3T (third turning) 13% [ 4 ]
* 2. I support Bush, and I believe we're in a 4T (fourth turning) 6% [ 2 ]
* 3. I support Kerry, and I believe we're in a 3T (third turning) 34% [ 10 ]
* 4. I support Kerry, and I believe we're in a 4T (fourth turning) 31%[ 9 ]
* 5. I support Nader, and I believe we're in a 3T (third turning) 0% [ 0 ]
* 6. I support Nader, and I believe we're in a 4T (fourth turning) 0% [ 0 ]
* 7. I have no presidential preference, and believe we're in 3T 6% [ 2 ]
* 8. I have no presidential preference, and believe we're in 4T 6% [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 29

Sincerely,

John

John J. Xenakis
E-mail: john@GenerationalDynamics.com
Web site: http://www.GenerationalDynamics.com

Originally Posted by Idiot Girl

I support Kerry and am not sure if we're in a 3T or a 4T. The term "Phony Fourth" seems to describe it very well.

In case you're wondering, I'm a late Silent, a "Pluto in Leo" Silent aka Proto-Boomer. Though rejoicing exceedingly that I am NOT a Boomer as of the past few years.

I'm a 1931 Silent. Welcome! I know you have been here a while, but I thought by your handle that you were a GenX or a Millie (hip name). Whatever possessed a Silent to create a handle like Idiot Girl? I'd love to know the story.......

I'm sure Croak and Mary T join me -- always nice to have one more Silent around!

Originally Posted by Hermione Granger

Originally Posted by Tom Mazanec

Please note, I have always supported Bush, but believed two or three years post 9-11 we were in a 4T. I now believe we are in a very nasty ending of a 3T.

Really? Your posts do not seem to be those of a Bush supporter? Was this a typo or did I read you completely wrong? :oops:

I had the same question in my mind, Tom. I mean, when I remember your earlier posts, yes. But lately you do not sound much like a Bushie..... :?: