That is one fucking brilliant speech.

Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Given a choice, I'll take Al Gore over Mark Warner, though Warner has been a good governor for Virginia. Either is vastly preferable to George "Lock 'em up and throw away the key" Allen, whose one claim to fame is just that - retribution at all costs. That, and his cowboy boots.

If Allen is elected President, I'm going to Canada. :evil:

Say hello to Stephen Harper.

You might have to go south, young man! :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

H-m-m-m. A Canadian Conservative would be a US Moderate, so I expect he'll do very well.

Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Given a choice, I'll take Al Gore over Mark Warner, though Warner has been a good governor for Virginia. Either is vastly preferable to George "Lock 'em up and throw away the key" Allen, whose one claim to fame is just that - retribution at all costs. That, and his cowboy boots.

If Allen is elected President, I'm going to Canada. :evil:

Say hello to Stephen Harper.

You might have to go south, young man! :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

H-m-m-m. A Canadian Conservative would be a US Moderate, so I expect he'll do very well.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Given a choice, I'll take Al Gore over Mark Warner, though Warner has been a good governor for Virginia. Either is vastly preferable to George "Lock 'em up and throw away the key" Allen, whose one claim to fame is just that - retribution at all costs. That, and his cowboy boots.

If Allen is elected President, I'm going to Canada. :evil:

Say hello to Stephen Harper.

You might have to go south, young man! :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

H-m-m-m. A Canadian Conservative would be a US Moderate, so I expect he'll do very well.

Well, I am glad that the present curate's egg of Compassionate Conservativism has kept you at least partially sated.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Given a choice, I'll take Al Gore over Mark Warner, though Warner has been a good governor for Virginia. Either is vastly preferable to George "Lock 'em up and throw away the key" Allen, whose one claim to fame is just that - retribution at all costs. That, and his cowboy boots.

If Allen is elected President, I'm going to Canada. :evil:

Say hello to Stephen Harper.

You might have to go south, young man! :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

H-m-m-m. A Canadian Conservative would be a US Moderate, so I expect he'll do very well.

Well, I am glad that the present curate's egg of Compassionate Conservativism has kept you at least partially sated.

Originally Posted by The Roadrunner

That is one fucking brilliant speech.

Makes you wonder who wrote it...

Originally Posted by The Roadrunner

That is one fucking brilliant speech.

Makes you wonder who wrote it...

Originally Posted by Justin '77

Originally Posted by The Roadrunner

That is one fucking brilliant speech.

Makes you wonder who wrote it...

He really nailed it here:

But there is yet another Constitutional player whose pulse must be taken and whose role must be examined in order to understand the dangerous imbalance that has emerged with the efforts by the Executive Branch to dominate our constitutional system.

We the people are-collectively-still the key to the survival of America's democracy. We-as Lincoln put it, "[e]ven we here"-must examine our own role as citizens in allowing and not preventing the shocking decay and degradation of our democracy.

Thomas Jefferson said: "An informed citizenry is the only true repository of the public will."

The revolutionary departure on which the idea of America was based was the audacious belief that people can govern themselves and responsibly exercise the ultimate authority in self-government. This insight proceeded inevitably from the bedrock principle articulated by the Enlightenment philosopher John Locke: "All just power is derived from the consent of the governed."

The intricate and carefully balanced constitutional system that is now in such danger was created with the full and widespread participation of the population as a whole. The Federalist Papers were, back in the day, widely-read newspaper essays, and they represented only one of twenty-four series of essays that crowded the vibrant marketplace of ideas in which farmers and shopkeepers recapitulated the debates that played out so fruitfully in Philadelphia.

Indeed, when the Convention had done its best, it was the people - in their various States - that refused to confirm the result until, at their insistence, the Bill of Rights was made integral to the document sent forward for ratification.

And it is "We the people" who must now find once again the ability we once had to play an integral role in saving our Constitution.

I really liked that part. It wasn't enough for Gore to complain about how the government is starting to run roughshod over us -- it was a call to the citizenry to get involved and do something about it. Get informed. Don't believe everything you see on the teevee or read on the internets.

Originally Posted by Justin '77

Originally Posted by The Roadrunner

That is one fucking brilliant speech.

Makes you wonder who wrote it...

He really nailed it here:

But there is yet another Constitutional player whose pulse must be taken and whose role must be examined in order to understand the dangerous imbalance that has emerged with the efforts by the Executive Branch to dominate our constitutional system.

We the people are-collectively-still the key to the survival of America's democracy. We-as Lincoln put it, "[e]ven we here"-must examine our own role as citizens in allowing and not preventing the shocking decay and degradation of our democracy.

Thomas Jefferson said: "An informed citizenry is the only true repository of the public will."

The revolutionary departure on which the idea of America was based was the audacious belief that people can govern themselves and responsibly exercise the ultimate authority in self-government. This insight proceeded inevitably from the bedrock principle articulated by the Enlightenment philosopher John Locke: "All just power is derived from the consent of the governed."

The intricate and carefully balanced constitutional system that is now in such danger was created with the full and widespread participation of the population as a whole. The Federalist Papers were, back in the day, widely-read newspaper essays, and they represented only one of twenty-four series of essays that crowded the vibrant marketplace of ideas in which farmers and shopkeepers recapitulated the debates that played out so fruitfully in Philadelphia.

Indeed, when the Convention had done its best, it was the people - in their various States - that refused to confirm the result until, at their insistence, the Bill of Rights was made integral to the document sent forward for ratification.

And it is "We the people" who must now find once again the ability we once had to play an integral role in saving our Constitution.

I really liked that part. It wasn't enough for Gore to complain about how the government is starting to run roughshod over us -- it was a call to the citizenry to get involved and do something about it. Get informed. Don't believe everything you see on the teevee or read on the internets.

Argh. I just realized this was a doubled post.

Nevermind, I'll just highlight another part of the Gore speech:

Fear drives out reason. Fear suppresses the politics of discourse and opens the door to the politics of destruction. Justice Brandeis once wrote: "Men feared witches and burnt women."

The founders of our country faced dire threats. If they failed in their endeavors, they would have been hung as traitors. The very existence of our country was at risk.

Yet, in the teeth of those dangers, they insisted on establishing the Bill of Rights.

Is our Congress today in more danger than were their predecessors when the British army was marching on the Capitol? Is the world more dangerous than when we faced an ideological enemy with tens of thousands of missiles poised to be launched against us and annihilate our country at a moment's notice? Is America in more danger now than when we faced worldwide fascism on the march-when our fathers fought and won two World Wars?

It is simply an insult to those who came before us and sacrificed so much on our behalf to imply that we have more to be fearful of than they. Yet they faithfully protected our freedoms and now it is up to us to do the same.

Argh. I just realized this was a doubled post.

Nevermind, I'll just highlight another part of the Gore speech:

Fear drives out reason. Fear suppresses the politics of discourse and opens the door to the politics of destruction. Justice Brandeis once wrote: "Men feared witches and burnt women."

The founders of our country faced dire threats. If they failed in their endeavors, they would have been hung as traitors. The very existence of our country was at risk.

Yet, in the teeth of those dangers, they insisted on establishing the Bill of Rights.

Is our Congress today in more danger than were their predecessors when the British army was marching on the Capitol? Is the world more dangerous than when we faced an ideological enemy with tens of thousands of missiles poised to be launched against us and annihilate our country at a moment's notice? Is America in more danger now than when we faced worldwide fascism on the march-when our fathers fought and won two World Wars?

It is simply an insult to those who came before us and sacrificed so much on our behalf to imply that we have more to be fearful of than they. Yet they faithfully protected our freedoms and now it is up to us to do the same.

I have been watching Gore's speeches these last couple of years. On every issue, he alone, is addressing the heart of the problems facing our nation, our planet and our democracy. He aint good looking, and he is still stiff and still southern. But he is THE MAN!

I have been watching Gore's speeches these last couple of years. On every issue, he alone, is addressing the heart of the problems facing our nation, our planet and our democracy. He aint good looking, and he is still stiff and still southern. But he is THE MAN!

Thus, I need to ask myself why I ever would listen to this guy?


About 10 years ago, it seems that Republicans were more interested in civil liberties than they are now. It was the Republicans, after all, that at least had hearings on Ruby Ridge and Waco, and the Democrats who sought to justify government murder.



Another challenge thrown

Thus, I need to ask myself why I ever would listen to this guy?


About 10 years ago, it seems that Republicans were more interested in civil liberties than they are now. It was the Republicans, after all, that at least had hearings on Ruby Ridge and Waco, and the Democrats who sought to justify government murder.



Another challenge thrown

So Saari are you going to vote for Halonen or Ninistö on Jan. 29?

So Saari are you going to vote for Halonen or Ninistö on Jan. 29?

Originally Posted by Mary Fitzmas

So Saari are you going to vote for Halonen or Ninistö on Jan. 29?

I might be a True Finn/Perussuomalaiset sort of Tertium Quid.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

This populist movement is very nationalist, eurosceptic and anti-establishment.

:wink:

Originally Posted by Mary Fitzmas

So Saari are you going to vote for Halonen or Ninistö on Jan. 29?

I might be a True Finn/Perussuomalaiset sort of Tertium Quid.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

This populist movement is very nationalist, eurosceptic and anti-establishment.

:wink:

Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Given a choice, I'll take Al Gore over Mark Warner, though Warner has been a good governor for Virginia. Either is vastly preferable to George "Lock 'em up and throw away the key" Allen, whose one claim to fame is just that - retribution at all costs. That, and his cowboy boots.

If Allen is elected President, I'm going to Canada. :evil:

Say hello to Stephen Harper.

You might have to go south, young man! :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

H-m-m-m. A Canadian Conservative would be a US Moderate, so I expect he'll do very well.

Well, I am glad that the present curate's egg of Compassionate Conservativism has kept you at least partially sated.

Originally Posted by Anne McIlroy of the Guardian UK

But a Conservative victory will not signal a dramatic shift to the right for the country, at least according to Mr Harper's campaign announcements. The Conservatives are a merger of two parties, the more populist and socially conservative Canadian Alliance and the more mainstream Progressive Conservatives, who were all but destroyed in the 1993 election after the deeply unpopular Brian Mulroney stepped down as prime minister.

...

The Globe and Mail, a respected national newspaper, endorsed Mr Harper at the weekend.

The paper noted that he has moved to the middle of the political spectrum and that policies he has spelled out on health care, other social programmes and tax cuts are reasonable. The Conservative leader has managed to defuse concerns that he has a socially conservative hidden agenda. He insists the Conservatives will not reopen the abortion debate, for example.

As someone who has spent a good deal of time in Canada (my landed immigrant girlfriend lives in Kitchener), I can vouch for this. A Canada under Conservative rule would still be more liberal in many ways that the United States under Democratic rule.

Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Given a choice, I'll take Al Gore over Mark Warner, though Warner has been a good governor for Virginia. Either is vastly preferable to George "Lock 'em up and throw away the key" Allen, whose one claim to fame is just that - retribution at all costs. That, and his cowboy boots.

If Allen is elected President, I'm going to Canada. :evil:

Say hello to Stephen Harper.

You might have to go south, young man! :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

H-m-m-m. A Canadian Conservative would be a US Moderate, so I expect he'll do very well.

Well, I am glad that the present curate's egg of Compassionate Conservativism has kept you at least partially sated.

Originally Posted by Anne McIlroy of the Guardian UK

But a Conservative victory will not signal a dramatic shift to the right for the country, at least according to Mr Harper's campaign announcements. The Conservatives are a merger of two parties, the more populist and socially conservative Canadian Alliance and the more mainstream Progressive Conservatives, who were all but destroyed in the 1993 election after the deeply unpopular Brian Mulroney stepped down as prime minister.

...

The Globe and Mail, a respected national newspaper, endorsed Mr Harper at the weekend.

The paper noted that he has moved to the middle of the political spectrum and that policies he has spelled out on health care, other social programmes and tax cuts are reasonable. The Conservative leader has managed to defuse concerns that he has a socially conservative hidden agenda. He insists the Conservatives will not reopen the abortion debate, for example.

As someone who has spent a good deal of time in Canada (my landed immigrant girlfriend lives in Kitchener), I can vouch for this. A Canada under Conservative rule would still be more liberal in many ways that the United States under Democratic rule.

Originally Posted by jadams

I have been watching Gore's speeches these last couple of years. On every issue, he alone, is addressing the heart of the problems facing our nation, our planet and our democracy. He aint good looking, and he is still stiff and still southern. But he is THE MAN!

Southern is good though, right? How many presidents have been southern in the past 30 years? Other than Reagan, all of them.

Speaking of Reagan, I think he was GC material. I don't actually know much about his presidency, but he seems to have been a straight shooter, for better or worse. He seemed to be a pretty natural leader. That's probably why he was missed so much when he died--in the land of 2004, there were no true leaders to be found. But alas, he was a G.I. and not meant for The 4T Hall Of Fame. Hell, he wasn't even supposed to be in The 3T Hall Of Fame, but those goddamn G.I.'s just wouldn't go away!

But Gore, he really is one of the few people out there willing to stick his neck out. I do not see Hillary Clinton being a good leader. She's all politics, and would Hooverize this country even more than Bush, especially since if she is elected in '08, she will likely be president during the regeneracy. This would at least mean that Gore could pick up the pieces in 2012 and kick some ass. Unless the world ends on 12/21/12...oh wait, I'm not on the prophecies board. :lol:

There is also the remote possibility that Bill Clinton could become president again. Something I noticed when reading about Israel's history is how much they've had recurring PMs. I mean, there's already talk of Netanyahu being the next PM, and he had a first turn in the late 90s. Clinton has even pointed out that there's nothing in the Constitution that says a former president can't make a comeback years later. He's been keeping a pretty high profile too--I think it's possible. People could associate him with the good times of the 1990s and give him another go. However, I still don't think he's a crisis leader. I think maybe he just misses the 90s, like the rest of us (except for some of you Xers :P).

Gore is our man. Sign some petitions, make it happen.

Originally Posted by jadams

I have been watching Gore's speeches these last couple of years. On every issue, he alone, is addressing the heart of the problems facing our nation, our planet and our democracy. He aint good looking, and he is still stiff and still southern. But he is THE MAN!

Southern is good though, right? How many presidents have been southern in the past 30 years? Other than Reagan, all of them.

Speaking of Reagan, I think he was GC material. I don't actually know much about his presidency, but he seems to have been a straight shooter, for better or worse. He seemed to be a pretty natural leader. That's probably why he was missed so much when he died--in the land of 2004, there were no true leaders to be found. But alas, he was a G.I. and not meant for The 4T Hall Of Fame. Hell, he wasn't even supposed to be in The 3T Hall Of Fame, but those goddamn G.I.'s just wouldn't go away!

But Gore, he really is one of the few people out there willing to stick his neck out. I do not see Hillary Clinton being a good leader. She's all politics, and would Hooverize this country even more than Bush, especially since if she is elected in '08, she will likely be president during the regeneracy. This would at least mean that Gore could pick up the pieces in 2012 and kick some ass. Unless the world ends on 12/21/12...oh wait, I'm not on the prophecies board. :lol:

There is also the remote possibility that Bill Clinton could become president again. Something I noticed when reading about Israel's history is how much they've had recurring PMs. I mean, there's already talk of Netanyahu being the next PM, and he had a first turn in the late 90s. Clinton has even pointed out that there's nothing in the Constitution that says a former president can't make a comeback years later. He's been keeping a pretty high profile too--I think it's possible. People could associate him with the good times of the 1990s and give him another go. However, I still don't think he's a crisis leader. I think maybe he just misses the 90s, like the rest of us (except for some of you Xers :P).

Gore is our man. Sign some petitions, make it happen.

The speech made was refreshing. Good to see him cool down so his mind is clear of distractions, and even better to see a hand extended across both aisles. He knows everyone has a stake in this nation. Maybe we'll see some new direction yet. A shakeup of the current arrangement is in order.

He has my nod. Should he run I would vote for him on the issues presented in his speech (I'm still skeptical about his environmental platform, but that's a small issue). But I am amused to see how those a bit towards my left from all sorts of places are falling over themselves in reaction to this. Coat him in bronze and put him on a pedestal!

The speech made was refreshing. Good to see him cool down so his mind is clear of distractions, and even better to see a hand extended across both aisles. He knows everyone has a stake in this nation. Maybe we'll see some new direction yet. A shakeup of the current arrangement is in order.

He has my nod. Should he run I would vote for him on the issues presented in his speech (I'm still skeptical about his environmental platform, but that's a small issue). But I am amused to see how those a bit towards my left from all sorts of places are falling over themselves in reaction to this. Coat him in bronze and put him on a pedestal!