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Thread: Middle East - Page 11







Post#251 at 03-03-2006 01:39 PM by KaiserD2 [at David Kaiser '47 joined Jul 2001 #posts 5,220]
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03-03-2006, 01:39 PM #251
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Israeli generations

To begin with--having scanned this forum--Arafat was certainly an Artist, and I'd be willing to argue that Sharon was too. He turned 18 just in time to get wounded in the Israeli war of independence, but he completely missed the struggle against the British, which I think was the defining struggle for the Israeli elite. Rabin was the hero who, typically, became a peacemaker late in life.


Now here is an interesting piece from today's Independent focusing upon an interesting Israeli prophet whom I hadn't heard of.

sraeli 'ruler-in-waiting' plans to starve Hamas
By Leonard Doyle, Foreign Editor
Published: 02 March 2006

She is already being spoken of as an Israeli leader in waiting. Today the Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni brings to London the campaign to destabilise the incoming Hamas Palestinian government by starving it of cash.

Israel's policy - described by a spokesman as putting "the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger" - has left London feeling squeamish. Tony Blair and Jack Straw will today undoubtedly show solidarity with Israel, saying Britain is not in the business of funding terrorists. But in private there is anguish that the policy will bring malnutrition to innocent Palestinians and punish them for taking part in a democratic election. The Palestinians are completely dependent on foreign aid for their survival and Israel's campaign to put 3.6 million people on starvation rations is foreboding.

The EU announced on Monday that it would provide €120m (£85m) in emergency assistance to prevent financial collapse, but has kept silent on what it will do once Hamas takes office. Britain is encouraging the EU to pay salaries directly and bypass Hamas.

Ms Livni's hardline views were displayed earlier this week when she said that the Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas was "irrelevant" and could not be permitted to become "a fig leaf for a terrorist entity".

US policy is to prop up Mr Abbas at all costs and Israel's interim ruler Ehud Olmert quickly stepped in to clarify Ms Livni's remarks, saying he hoped the Palestinian President would stay in office.

Ms Livni, 47, has made a considerable political journey from her early support for a Greater Israel to realisation that the country cannot remain a democracy while occupying Palestinian lands and ruling over a population that despises it. A teenager born to a nationalist family, she was nearly arrested for violently protesting against Henry Kissinger's ill-fated shuttle diplomacy. Despite her closely held dream of a Greater Israel, she maintains that she has long been a centrist on the national question. Raised in a hardline Likud household, Ms Livni has an ideological pedigree that is hard to top.

"My family is part of the founding history of Israel," she has said. Her father's gravestone bears the inscription, "Here lies the head of operations of the Irgun" - refering to a pre-independence military organisation set up to fight the British and the Arabs. The stone also bears a carved map of Greater Israel extending to the opposite side of the Jordan river.

A former Mossad officer, Ms Livni is the daughter of Zionists - classified as terrorists by the British authorities. Her father, Eitan, was the Irgun's head of operations when it blew up the King David hotel in Jerusalem in 1946, killing 28 Britons, 41 Arabs, 17 Jews and five others. The subsequent wave of terror attacks he led outraged British public opinion, leading the government to abandon the Palestinian Mandate and turn the problem over to the UN, with disastrous consequences for the Palestinians.

Ms Livni was one of Sharon's favourite colleagues - part of the kitchen cabinet that planned the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza last year and his key emissary. She was also the first person he asked to join the centrist party Kadima after breaking away from Likud during a row with the right over the withdrawal.

Ms Livni rose to become a lieutenant in Israel's army before joining its foreign spy agency Mossad when she was 22. During her time at the agency it was involved in a failed assassination attempt on the Black September leader Abu Daoud. In 1981, her first year as a foreign spy, Mossad arranged the destruction of a nuclear reactor Saddam Hussein was building at Osirak.

She is already being spoken of as an Israeli leader in waiting. Today the Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni brings to London the campaign to destabilise the incoming Hamas Palestinian government by starving it of cash.

Israel's policy - described by a spokesman as putting "the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger" - has left London feeling squeamish. Tony Blair and Jack Straw will today undoubtedly show solidarity with Israel, saying Britain is not in the business of funding terrorists. But in private there is anguish that the policy will bring malnutrition to innocent Palestinians and punish them for taking part in a democratic election. The Palestinians are completely dependent on foreign aid for their survival and Israel's campaign to put 3.6 million people on starvation rations is foreboding.

The EU announced on Monday that it would provide €120m (£85m) in emergency assistance to prevent financial collapse, but has kept silent on what it will do once Hamas takes office. Britain is encouraging the EU to pay salaries directly and bypass Hamas.

Ms Livni's hardline views were displayed earlier this week when she said that the Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas was "irrelevant" and could not be permitted to become "a fig leaf for a terrorist entity".

US policy is to prop up Mr Abbas at all costs and Israel's interim ruler Ehud Olmert quickly stepped in to clarify Ms Livni's remarks, saying he hoped the Palestinian President would stay in office.

Ms Livni, 47, has made a considerable political journey from her early support for a Greater Israel to realisation that the country cannot remain a democracy while occupying Palestinian lands and ruling over a population that despises it. A teenager born to a nationalist family, she was nearly arrested for violently protesting against Henry Kissinger's ill-fated shuttle diplomacy. Despite her closely held dream of a Greater Israel, she maintains that she has long been a centrist on the national question. Raised in a hardline Likud household, Ms Livni has an ideological pedigree that is hard to top.

"My family is part of the founding history of Israel," she has said. Her father's gravestone bears the inscription, "Here lies the head of operations of the Irgun" - refering to a pre-independence military organisation set up to fight the British and the Arabs. The stone also bears a carved map of Greater Israel extending to the opposite side of the Jordan river.

A former Mossad officer, Ms Livni is the daughter of Zionists - classified as terrorists by the British authorities. Her father, Eitan, was the Irgun's head of operations when it blew up the King David hotel in Jerusalem in 1946, killing 28 Britons, 41 Arabs, 17 Jews and five others. The subsequent wave of terror attacks he led outraged British public opinion, leading the government to abandon the Palestinian Mandate and turn the problem over to the UN, with disastrous consequences for the Palestinians.

Ms Livni was one of Sharon's favourite colleagues - part of the kitchen cabinet that planned the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza last year and his key emissary. She was also the first person he asked to join the centrist party Kadima after breaking away from Likud during a row with the right over the withdrawal.

Ms Livni rose to become a lieutenant in Israel's army before joining its foreign spy agency Mossad when she was 22. During her time at the agency it was involved in a failed assassination attempt on the Black September leader Abu Daoud. In 1981, her first year as a foreign spy, Mossad arranged the destruction of a nuclear reactor Saddam Hussein was building at Osirak.


David K '47







Post#252 at 06-08-2006 07:22 AM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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Again








Post#253 at 06-08-2006 09:23 AM by Earl and Mooch [at Delaware - we pave paradise and put up parking lots joined Sep 2002 #posts 2,106]
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06-08-2006, 09:23 AM #253
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Re: Again

Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari
Quote Originally Posted by Sam Donaldson
At least [Francisco] Franco died eventually.
"My generation, we were the generation that was going to change the world: somehow we were going to make it a little less lonely, a little less hungry, a little more just place. But it seems that when that promise slipped through our hands we didn´t replace it with nothing but lost faith."

Bruce Springsteen, 1987
http://brucebase.wikispaces.com/1987...+YORK+CITY,+NY







Post#254 at 06-08-2006 09:28 AM by salsabob [at Washington DC joined Jan 2005 #posts 746]
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Re: Again

Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari
This could be the last time. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:
Zar, no mas

"Che l'uomo il suo destin fugge di raro [For rarely man escapes his destiny]" - Ludovico Ariosto







Post#255 at 06-08-2006 05:57 PM by Mikebert [at Kalamazoo MI joined Jul 2001 #posts 4,502]
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Re: Again

Quote Originally Posted by salsabob
Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari
This could be the last time. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:
Zar, no mas

Ding dong the shithead is dead! This is great news.







Post#256 at 06-09-2006 01:51 AM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Re: Again

Quote Originally Posted by salsabob
Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari
This could be the last time. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:
Zar, no mas

Yet another light in the tunnel, I'm sure....

The Timely Death of al-Zarqawi
Oddly enough, Zarqawi first vaulted into the American consciousness just after the public exposure of earlier U.S. atrocities: the tortures at Abu Ghraib prison in the spring of 2004. With story after story of horrible abuse battering the Administration during an election year, Zarqawi, or someone just like him, suddenly appeared with a Grand Guignol production: the beheading of American civilian Nick Berg. This atrocity was instantly seized upon by supporters of the war to justify the "intensive interrogation" of "terrorists" – even though the Red Cross had determined that 70 to 90 percent of American captives at that time had committed no crime whatsoever, much less been involved in terrorism, as the notorious anti-war Wall Street Journal reported. Abu Ghraib largely faded from the public eye – indeed, it was not mentioned by a single speaker at the Democratic National Convention a few weeks later or raised as an issue during the presidential campaign that year.

Today's news has likewise knocked the new atrocity allegations off the front pages, to be replaced with heartening stories of how, as the New York Times reports, Zarqawi's death "appears to mark a major watershed in the war." Thus in his reputed end as in his reputed beginning, the Scarlet Pimpernel of Iraq has, by remarkable coincidence, done yeoman service for the immediate publicity needs of his deadly enemy, the Bush Administration.

It is not yet known who will now take Zarqawi's place as the new all-purpose, all-powerful bogeyman solely responsible for every bad thing in Iraq. There were recent indications that Maliki himself was being measured for the post, after he publicly denounced American atrocities and the occupiers' propensity for hair-trigger killing of civilians, but he seems to be back with the program now. Administration insiders are reportedly divided over shifting the horns to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's already much-demonized head, or planting them on extremist Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, or elevating some hitherto unknown local talent – or maybe just blaming the whole shebang on Fidel Castro, for old times' sake.







Post#257 at 06-09-2006 08:51 AM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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Close acquaintance with a celebrity curate's egg

Familiarity breeds contempt (so goes the trope). Mr. al-Zarqawi is said to have had a feces-filled cranium by one of our posters.

Mr. Michael Totten (late of these parts) proposes that he had frequent knowledge (in the biblical sense) of his maternal ancestor.

Quote Originally Posted by Various
  • BITCH

    a human nightmare

    semiliterate goon

    most vicious prosecutor

    brother-fighter

    douchebag

A Man of Many Parts, Mr. Abu Musab







Post#258 at 06-09-2006 09:21 AM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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Delay is Life (and many a death)!

Perhaps. a "BITCH, a human nightmare, semiliterate goon, most vicious prosecutor, brother-fighter & douchebag" could have been done away with four years ago when the U.S.A. had opportunity to Reform an Eurasian.

Quote Originally Posted by Chris Floyd
The reputed end of Zarqawi's reign of terror comes a mere four years after U.S. forces had pinpointed his hideout and were prepared to destroy his entire operation, only to be forestalled by the White House. Before the war, Zarqawi and his band of non-Iraqi Islamic extremists had a camp in northern Iraq, in territory controlled by American-backed Kurdish forces, who had wrested it from the hands of Saddam Hussein. U.S. Special Forces, CIA agents and other American personnel had a free hand to operate there; indeed, anti-Saddam Iraqi exiles held open meetings in the territory, safe from the reach of the dictator.

In June 2002, American forces had locked in on Zarqawi's location. They prepared a detailed attack plan that would have destroyed the terrorist band. But their request to strike was turned down not once, but twice by the White House. Administration officials feared that such a strike would have muddied the waters in their public relations effort to foment war fever against Saddam's regime.
But, think of the joys that would have been denied yesterday if Mr. Bush would have had the courage to Re-form Mr. Zarqawi's parts four years past!







Post#259 at 06-09-2006 10:44 AM by herbal tee [at joined Dec 2005 #posts 7,116]
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Having had an off day from work yesterday and ample time to watch CNN gave me a chance to watch the change in coverage. In the morning when the news was fresh the attitude was way too optimistic about what would happen next. It had an almost "1945ish" "The war is almost over" feel. By the afternoon they were much more cautious. It was stressed that the hoped for power struggle to replace Zarqawi may not take place and that the situation in Iraq would not automatically get better now. It was interesting to watch the change. I wonder if much of the public went or will go through a similar process.







Post#260 at 06-09-2006 12:56 PM by salsabob [at Washington DC joined Jan 2005 #posts 746]
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Zar just pissed off the wrong guy. Some folks thing it was last week when he called Sistani an atheist and the Badr Brigades and Mahdi Army murderers, but hey, that's been his kill-Shiites stik for years. He also basically called Hezbollah and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad pretend Israeli-haters and do-nothings, but hey, from the Iranian standpoint that's just Zar being Zar, too valuable in keeping the Americans tie-down and preoccupied.

Nope, need to roll the clock back a little further, to Zars comic presentation on how not to operate a machine gun (I bet his bud is still nursing that palm that grab the red hot barrel!). Everybody got their har-hars watching the bumbling Zar (can a true believer have a beer belly?), except perhaps one small-in-statue-but-everyone-knows-you-don't-f___-with-if-you-want-to-see-morning guy. For clues, here's Zar's transcript below. And no, it wasn't the Jordanians or any of that 'first thing' Zar wanted to talk about. Who dropped the nickel has a lot to do with Zar's "second thing."


“In the name of God; praise be to God and prayers and peace be upon God's Messenger and his family, companions, and followers;

“Muslim brothers everywhere, God's peace, mercy, and blessings be upon you.

“The first thing I would like to talk to you about is the third anniversary of the US invasion of Iraq. Thanks be to God Almighty, America, Britain, and their allies have only reaped losses, catastrophes, and calamities after three years of the crusader invasion of Iraq. They are in an unenviable predicament in Iraq, despite the lies consistently told by Bush and Blair. These losses and calamities were the result of the mujahidin's sacrifices and readiness to die for the sake of God. Al-Qa'ida of Jihad in the Land of Two Rivers [I.E. Iraq] group alone carried out 800 martyrdom-seeking operations in the past three years, in addition to the sacrifices made by the other mujahidin. This has broken America's back in Iraq.

“The sacrifices of the heroic mujahidin have also exposed the total inconsistency of the West's doctrine. Perhaps this moral and material defeat of the Western crusader campaign would urge the West to reconsider its whole ideological system if it wants the truth or wishes for survival. Not only have the heroic mujahidin's sacrifices inflicted a moral and material defeat on the crusader alliance, but they have also exposed the group of traitors falsely associated with Muslims. Those traitors allied with the crusaders before, during, and after the invasion [of Iraq]. They prevented jihad against the occupation, and helped entrench it in Iraq. They promised that they will be faithful guards of its interests after it leaves.

“They are traitors even if they dress like Muslims or carry Muslim names. They are traitors even if they grow thick beards or wear turbans. They are traitors even if they claim noble descent and a connection with the unseen or any other form of charlatanry and superstitions. They are traitors, and have nothing to do with God and His Messenger and his righteous companions and pure household, and the entire Muslim Ummah [community]. How can they claim affiliation with Islam while the Lord of Glory has given a verdict about them in his book saying, "O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them. Verily, Allah guideth not a people unjust"? [Koranic verse, Sura 5:51]

“Those who are in Iraq; those who are affiliated with the [royal] Hashim family in Jordan and their peers in the Arabian Peninsula, who call for the recognition of Israel and making peace with it; and their like in Egypt, who helped France against the veiled Muslim women, received the Israeli ambassador in the holy al-Azhar [mosque], and handed over Wafa Qistantin [last name also spelled Constantine; an Egyptian Coptic Christian woman who, according to varying reports, either embraced or was forced to convert to Islam in 2004. A court ruled that she be returned to her Christian husband] to be tortured in the monasteries' prisons are all traitors. The Muslim Ummah should confront them so that they would not stab it in the back while exposing its chest to the bullets and shells of the enemies.

“The second thing that I would like to talk to you about is the dismal fate toward which traitor [Pakistani President Gen. Pervez] Musharraf is pushing Pakistan. Undoubtedly, Pakistan is one of the most important countries being targeted by this new colonialist Crusader campaign, which seeks to weaken and fragment Pakistan into entities under the control of India, which is allied with the Americans and Jews.

“I would like here to clarify an extremely important point; namely, that the US-Crusader-Zionist scheme against Islam does not accept the presence of Pakistan as a strong, powerful, and capable country in south Asia. This scheme does not forgive Pakistan for breaking away from India in the name of Islam; neither does it forgive Pakistan for having the largest Islamic schools, which have great influence on Muslims in south and central Asia.

“This scheme also does not forgive Pakistan for having flourishing popular jihadist movements against Indians in Kashmir and against the Russians and Americans in Afghanistan. Neither does it forgive Pakistan for the favorable response of its people, scholars, students, mujahidin, and tribes to the Islamic emirate in Afghanistan since its emergence and until this very day; or their response to its mujahid amir the lion of Islam Mulla Mohammed Omar, may God watch over him.

“This scheme also does not forgive the sweeping popular Pakistani sympathy with Shaykh Usama Bin Ladin's call for jihad to expel the Americans and Jews from Islamic holy places and countries.

“In this context, India seems to be the best candidate for carrying out the Zionist-Crusader scheme that aims to humiliate, weaken, and dismember Pakistan. [U.S. President George W.] Bush's recent visit to Pakistan in early March was a strong proof of this as Bush gave a strong push to India's nuclear program, while he gave orders and instructions in Pakistan.

“I would like to briefly review with you some of the calamities that Musharraf and his helpers brought to Pakistan. The first of these calamities is Musharraf's fighting Islam in Pakistan. Upon orders from the Crusaders, he offered all possible support to drive the Islamic emirate out of Kabul. He fought Islamic schools and also intends to reconsider the Islamic penal law. Upon directives from the Crusaders, he created a new Qadyani creed [The Qadyani Islamic movement disagrees with several tenets of traditional Islam] that invites people to join an Islam without jihad, without the propagation of virtue and the prevention of vice, and without abidance by the laws of Shari'ah [Islamic law]. He called that ‘enlightened moderation.’

“The second of these calamities is that Musharraf has posed a threat to Pakistan's national security. Musharraf was the major supporter for driving the Islamic emirate out of Kabul and was the main reason behind the emergence of a pro-US-India and an anti-Pakistan government in Kabul. As a result of Musharraf's treason, the Indian intelligence infiltrated into the Pakistani-Afghan borders and opened consulates in cities that are adjacent to Pakistan. Following the Taliban government departure from Kabul, the Pakistani Army lost twice. First, the Pakistani Army lost the strategic depth, which Afghanistan can offer to it through its highlands and mountains at any Pakistani-Indian confrontation. Second, the Pakistani Army's back has become vulnerable to a regime that is hostile to it and allied with its enemies. If you add to this India's success in exploiting air bases in Tajikistan and its pursuit of military cooperation with central Asia countries, you will realize the extent of the strategic predicament, which the Pakistani Army has got itself into. Musharraf is the one who placed the Pakistani nuclear program under US, and hence, under Jewish and Indian supervision. Musharraf used America's accusation of Abdul Qadeer Khan to impose its control over the Pakistani nuclear program [Khan, a nuclear scientist, is under house arrest for allegedly transferring secrets to Iran, Libya, and North Korea].

“Is it reasonable that Abdul Qadeer Khan was outside the Pakistani military intelligence surveillance? Therefore, the first who must be prosecuted in the Abdul Qadeer Khan case are the leading figures of the Pakistani Army and Intelligence services. However, Abdul Qadeer Khan was used a scapegoat to appease the United States. Musharraf is the one who triggers civil war inside Pakistan in America's interest in Waziristan and Balushistan, in a bloody conflict with unlimited losses and which will only rebound on Pakistan with the gravest damage. The worst that any army in the world wishes for is to be assigned to defend its borders while it is being involved in an internal civil war. The Pakistani memory has not forgotten yet the disaster caused by the civil war in eastern Pakistan. What Musharraf has done in Bajuar, Waziristan, and Balushistan, he will repeat in Karachi, Lahore, and Peshawar, and even any place the Americans request him to strike.

“Musharraf seeks to change the combat ideology of the Pakistani Army by reiterating that the real threat to Pakistan is from within and not from without. In other words, he urges the Pakistani Army to attack his kinfolk and brothers and to turn a blind eye to the Indian danger. If the combat ideology of any army is ruined and it begins to fight for nothing but wages and ranks, then this army will flee the battlefield when the fighting intensifies. How can a Pakistani officer or soldier be convinced that he defends Islam while he has enabled the Americans to kill tens of thousands of Muslims in Afghanistan and enabled the Americans to evict the Islamic emirate from Kabul? How can a Pakistani officer or soldier be convinced that he defends the Pakistanis' sanctities while his commanders order him to kill women and children in his own country? How can a Pakistani officer or soldier be convinced that he defends Pakistan's pride and dignity while his superiors order him to wage a new massacre whenever they are visited by a high-ranking US official?

“The third of these calamities is Musharraf's relinquishing of the Kashmir issue and his continuous effort to get rid of it at any price. Musharraf is the one who strangled the jihadist resistance against India, which led it to increase its savagery and to demarcate the borders. Musharraf is the one who made one concession after another in the Kashmir issue, while India has not budged one step from its stand. And Musharraf is the one who seeks to deceive the Muslim nation in Pakistan by pretending to them that the problem with India will be resolved through confidence-building measures, so as to obstruct the effort to liberate Kashmir, which is the true problem between Pakistan and India. Musharraf is the one who fights the Arab mujahidin and their brothers from all over the Islamic world, who are considered one of the most important weapons in the effort to liberate Kashmir, as they had contributed before to the liberation of Afghanistan from the Russians. Musharraf is the one brought the US forces and intelligence services into Kashmir under the pretext of aiding the victims of the earthquake. Thus, they entered under this cover and began to bolster its defenses and fortifications to establish permanent Crusader bases on the Pakistani-Indian borders.

“The fourth of these calamities is Musharraf's recognition of Israel to prepare the Pakistanis psychologically to recognize a Hindu state in Kashmir.

“The fifth of these calamities is his insult to the Pakistani dignity and sovereignty when he gave the US intelligence and investigation agencies a free hand in Pakistan and turned the Pakistani Army and security agencies into hunting dogs at the service of the Crusaders.

“The sixth of these calamities is his demoralization of political life in Pakistan, for it was through bribery and election fraud that Musharraf appointed himself president, formed a party of bribe-takers and opportunists -- whom he gave the majority of parliamentary seats -- and distributed among the members of this party and the rest of his supporters the country's wealth that he had seized despite his claims at the start of his reign that he had come to combat financial corruption in Pakistan. The West, which claims to defend democracy, was initially opposed to Musharraf, but later turned into an admirer of Musharraf and his betrayals; rather, it now encourages him to remain in power through any means after he proved his efficiency in killing Muslims.

“Musharraf's real problem is bribery, for he believes that he can only succeed in accumulating wealth if he betrays Pakistan, pleases America, and throws himself at its feet, but he forgets the other half of the truth, that America dumps its agents into the trash once they outlive their usefulness. If he looks across his western borders, he will find the fate of the [late Iranian] Shah [Mohammad Reza Pahlavi] a testament to this reality, for they [I.E. the Americans] ordered the Shah to leave Iran, but then deprived him of asylum and medical treatment, which was offered to him only by his venal friend [then-Egyptian President] Anwar al-Sadat.

“In keeping with his worship of money and his avidity for bribery, Musharraf tries to convince the Pakistani people that they should pursue their interests with total disregard for religious or moral considerations. This is the same logic of drug dealers, slavery gangs, spies, and traitors. The punishment for this approach is loss in this life and the Hereafter. Allah Almighty says, ‘The Evil one threatens you with poverty and bids you to conduct unseemly. Allah promiseth you His forgiveness and bounties. And Allah careth for all and He knoweth all things.’ [Koranic verse, Sura 2:268]

“I call on the Pakistani people to take the side of Islam against the Zionist-Crusader campaign on the Islamic world and Pakistan. I urge them to do their best to topple this venal and traitor criminal, and ask that they do all they can to support their brothers the mujahidin in Afghanistan so that they may defeat the Crusader-Zionist plot that is allied with India.

“I wish to draw the Pakistani Army's attention to the dismal fate awaiting it in this life and the Hereafter, for the Pakistani Army has transformed into forces that fall in under Bush's Cross in his Crusader campaign on Islam and Muslims, and has turned into a tool used to destroy Pakistan and rip it apart. Let every soldier and officer in the Pakistani Army know that Allah promises to painfully punish those who ally themselves with pagans against Muslims. Allah says, ‘To the Hypocrites give the glad tidings that there is for them a grievous penalty; Yea, to those who take for friends unbelievers rather than believers: is it honor they seek among them? Nay - all honor is with Allah.’ [Koranic verse, Sura 4:138-139]

“Let every soldier and officer in the Pakistani Army know that Musharraf is casting them into the furnace of civil war in return for the bribes he took from the Americans, and that he does not care if 10,000 or 20,000 from the Pakistani Army are killed as long as his pockets are fattened by bribes. Let them know that Musharraf has made preparations for fleeing abroad when the popular revolution succeeds, and has opened secret bank accounts.

“I therefore call on every soldier and officer in the Pakistani Army to disobey orders by their commanders to kill Muslims in Pakistan and Afghanistan, otherwise, let them confront the mujahidin who expelled the English and Russians in the past. Allah says, ‘Say to the Unbelievers, if they desist, their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do. If they refuse, be sure that Allah is your Protector - the best to protect and the best to help.’ [Koranic verse, Sura 8:38-40]

“Our final prayer is: Thanks be to God Almighty, and may His blessings and prayers be upon Prophet Muhammad, the members of his household, and his companions."
You think bin Laden got a message from that short statue fellow? :lol:
"Che l'uomo il suo destin fugge di raro [For rarely man escapes his destiny]" - Ludovico Ariosto







Post#261 at 06-09-2006 01:02 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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Re: Delay is Life (and many a death)!

Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari
[Zarqawi] could have been done away with four years ago when the U.S.A. had opportunity to Reform an Eurasian.

Quote Originally Posted by Chris Floyd
Before the war, Zarqawi and his band of non-Iraqi Islamic extremists had a camp in northern Iraq...
Hmm, so al Qaeda was in Iraq before the war? I guess the Iraq invasion was a bit more justified that previously claimed (uh, by the Bush Sucks crowd that is).

"Ok, so what?" Says the left, "We got the real goods on Bush because he just wanted to kill innocent Iraqis and let Zarqawi get away!" Heeheehee! :wink:







Post#262 at 06-09-2006 02:30 PM by salsabob [at Washington DC joined Jan 2005 #posts 746]
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Quote Originally Posted by salsabob
You think bin Laden got a message from that short statue fellow? :lol:
But hey, old bin, he does have a heart -- he made sure Zar had his spiritual leader with him to help get him through those pearly gates!
"Che l'uomo il suo destin fugge di raro [For rarely man escapes his destiny]" - Ludovico Ariosto







Post#263 at 06-09-2006 02:43 PM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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Re: Delay is Life (and many a death)!

Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate
Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari
[Zarqawi] could have been done away with four years ago when the U.S.A. had opportunity to Reform an Eurasian.

Quote Originally Posted by Chris Floyd
Before the war, Zarqawi and his band of non-Iraqi Islamic extremists had a camp in northern Iraq...
Hmm, so al Qaeda was in Iraq before the war? I guess the Iraq invasion was a bit more justified that previously claimed (uh, by the Bush Sucks crowd that is).

"Ok, so what?" Says the left, "We got the real goods on Bush because he just wanted to kill innocent Iraqis and let Zarqawi get away!" Heeheehee! :wink:
He was in Kurdistan under the protection of Coalition aircraft for Progressive reasons. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: I think he was in Ansar-al-Islam (sp?) and then in something "Mesopotamian and Monotheistic" before he re-branded into AQ in Irak. But, Mr. Lamb, an Ohioan, might have problems with such a Progress allowed by the POTUS.







Post#264 at 06-09-2006 02:49 PM by salsabob [at Washington DC joined Jan 2005 #posts 746]
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Re: Delay is Life (and many a death)!

Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari
Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate
Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari
[Zarqawi] could have been done away with four years ago when the U.S.A. had opportunity to Reform an Eurasian.

Quote Originally Posted by Chris Floyd
Before the war, Zarqawi and his band of non-Iraqi Islamic extremists had a camp in northern Iraq...
Hmm, so al Qaeda was in Iraq before the war? I guess the Iraq invasion was a bit more justified that previously claimed (uh, by the Bush Sucks crowd that is).

"Ok, so what?" Says the left, "We got the real goods on Bush because he just wanted to kill innocent Iraqis and let Zarqawi get away!" Heeheehee! :wink:
He was in Kurdistan under the protection of Coalition aircraft for Progressive reasons. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: I think he was in Ansar-al-Islam (sp?) and then in something "Mesopotamian and Monotheistic" before he re-branded into AQ in Irak. But, Mr. Lamb, an Ohioan, might have problems with such a Progress allowed by the POTUS.
VKS is correct in all regards 8)
"Che l'uomo il suo destin fugge di raro [For rarely man escapes his destiny]" - Ludovico Ariosto







Post#265 at 06-09-2006 05:35 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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06-09-2006, 05:35 PM #265
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Re: Delay is Life (and many a death)!

Quote Originally Posted by salsabob
VKS is correct in all regards 8)
Gee, that's pretty convin[c]ing based upon, what, "US intelligence"? The same intell that suggested Bush's military machine would find WMD, along with al Qaeda operatives, in Iraq?

Armchair presidents and quarterbacks come a dime a dozen, but, gosh, it sure is fun running the show from the cheap seats! 8) 8)







Post#266 at 06-09-2006 06:36 PM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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News, we don't need no stinkin' news!

HRW.org not CIA.gov

Aftenposten.no not Newscorp.com
:arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:







Post#267 at 06-09-2006 10:13 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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Re: News, we don't need no stinkin' news!

Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari
HRW.org not CIA.gov

Aftenposten.no not Newscorp.com
:arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:
:arrow: Deep, man. Now, wanna add some of your personally patented paleo-middle ages François-King James take on the matter, Sage Saari? I mean, let's really get deep, man! 8)







Post#268 at 06-12-2006 10:35 AM by salsabob [at Washington DC joined Jan 2005 #posts 746]
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Re: Delay is Life (and many a death)!

Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate
The same intell that suggested Bush's military machine would find WMD, along with al Qaeda operatives, in Iraq?

"It is important not to give the appearance of a predisposed mind. And it is more important not to let the mind become predisposed." Felix Frankfurter, Of Law and Men viii. (1956).
I think many in the intell community would sadly suggest that this is something Presidents should abide by.
"Che l'uomo il suo destin fugge di raro [For rarely man escapes his destiny]" - Ludovico Ariosto







Post#269 at 06-12-2006 01:17 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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Re: Delay is Life (and many a death)!

Quote Originally Posted by salsabob
Quote Originally Posted by salsabob
Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari
[Zarqawi] could have been done away with four years ago when the U.S.A. had opportunity to Reform an Eurasian.
VKS is correct in all regards 8)
  • "It is important not to give the appearance of a predisposed mind. And it is more important not to let the mind become predisposed." Felix Frankfurter, Of Law and Men viii. (1956).

I think many in the intell community would sadly suggest that this is something Presidents should abide by.
Right, you voted for getting Zarqawi right before you voted against the funding to get him. Moral clarity, leadership and decisiveness at it's most loopy liberal.

I can't seem to get that photo-op of Michael Dukakis riding in the tank outta my head. 8)







Post#270 at 06-12-2006 02:44 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Re: Delay is Life (and many a death)!

Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate
... I can't seem to get that photo-op of Michael Dukakis riding in the tank outta my head. 8)
How odd. My mental image is stuck on W's short-flight strut ... pan to him standing in front of the Mission Accomplished banner.

Which of those two images has more impact ... today?
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#271 at 06-12-2006 02:58 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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06-12-2006, 02:58 PM #271
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One of these days you chadless, Deibold-screwed Democrats are finally gonna figure out a way to rig election results the way the Bushies have. Then the oopsy photo-op (or ideas, issues, majorities etc) won't matter anymore.







Post#272 at 06-12-2006 11:05 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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Re: Delay is Life (and many a death), Thanks to Bush!

Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon
How odd. My mental image is stuck on W's short-flight strut ... pan to him standing in front of the Mission Accomplished banner.

Which of those two images has more impact ... today?
Tis a pity, actually. Think of all the fun we've missed with the tragic passing of so many in this blessed generation of anti-liberty, liberal-loving patriots:
  • MADRID, Spain -- They rose up quickly to take up Osama bin Laden's call for jihad, ruthless men in their 20s and 30s heralded as the next generation of global terror. Two years later, 40 percent are dead...
Delay is Life (and many a death), thanks to Bush!







Post#273 at 06-12-2006 11:19 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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Re: Again

Quote Originally Posted by Mike Alexander '59
Quote Originally Posted by salsabob
Ding dong the shithead is dead! This is great news.
Um, no. It appears, according to growing concensus among Washingtonians, that "shithead" was merely a bit player in the real al Qaeda scheme of things. Or, even a CIA stooge for heavens sake. The real power behind liberalism's coming regeneracy remains elusive, thank Allah. Wall Streeters are braced, however, for it's imminent arrival any day now. Crash boom! 8)







Post#274 at 06-13-2006 06:47 AM by Mikebert [at Kalamazoo MI joined Jul 2001 #posts 4,502]
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Re: Again

Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate
Quote Originally Posted by Mike Alexander '59
Quote Originally Posted by salsabob
Ding dong the shithead is dead! This is great news.
Um, no. It appears, according to growing concensus among Washingtonians, that "shithead" was merely a bit player in the real al Qaeda scheme of things. Or, even a CIA stooge for heavens sake. The real power behind liberalism's coming regeneracy remains elusive, thank Allah. Wall Streeters are braced, however, for it's imminent arrival any day now. Crash boom! 8)
I am not so naive as to think that his death will affect events. He was never the player the media made him out to be. I simply wanted him dead because of the Nick Berg murder--lots of other murders too, but Berg sticks in my mind. Did you see the tape?







Post#275 at 06-13-2006 06:55 AM by Mikebert [at Kalamazoo MI joined Jul 2001 #posts 4,502]
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Re: Delay is Life (and many a death)!

Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari
Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate
Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari
[Zarqawi] could have been done away with four years ago when the U.S.A. had opportunity to Reform an Eurasian.

Quote Originally Posted by Chris Floyd
Before the war, Zarqawi and his band of non-Iraqi Islamic extremists had a camp in northern Iraq...
Hmm, so al Qaeda was in Iraq before the war? I guess the Iraq invasion was a bit more justified that previously claimed (uh, by the Bush Sucks crowd that is).

"Ok, so what?" Says the left, "We got the real goods on Bush because he just wanted to kill innocent Iraqis and let Zarqawi get away!" Heeheehee! :wink:
He was in Kurdistan under the protection of Coalition aircraft for Progressive reasons. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: I think he was in Ansar-al-Islam (sp?) and then in something "Mesopotamian and Monotheistic" before he re-branded into AQ in Irak. But, Mr. Lamb, an Ohioan, might have problems with such a Progress allowed by the POTUS.
The Presdient refused to go after Zarquawi. He was the only terrorist in Iraq prior to the war that had any connection to al Qaeda and Bush didn't want him dead--otherwise it would be that much harder to make the claim that Saddam was allied with Bin Laden. Of course, he was hiding in Kurdistan, under US protection, where Saddam couldn't get him, which makes this assertion doubtful. But true believers like our own DA can have no doubts about The Leader.
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