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Thread: Middle East - Page 12







Post#276 at 06-13-2006 09:31 AM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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The POTUS in Mesopotamia

One hopes he will deliver more than a faux-d'inde to his Iraki clients this day. :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:







Post#277 at 06-13-2006 10:15 AM by [at joined #posts ]
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06-13-2006, 10:15 AM #277
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How do you know this stuff?

Quote Originally Posted by Mike Alexander '59
The Presdient refused to go after Zarquawi. He was the only terrorist in Iraq prior to the war that had any connection to al Qaeda and Bush didn't want him dead--otherwise it would be that much harder to make the claim that Saddam was allied with Bin Laden. Of course, he was hiding in Kurdistan, under US protection, where Saddam couldn't get him, which makes this assertion doubtful. But true believers like our own DA can have no doubts about The Leader.
I only wonder, other than based upon his experience with a baseball team, how you all have come to read the mind of this Bush fellow so keenly. Are these White Papers you're reading or do you visit the local palm-reader for these insider scoops on U.S. foreign policy?







Post#278 at 06-13-2006 11:07 AM by herbal tee [at joined Dec 2005 #posts 7,116]
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Re: How do you know this stuff?

Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate
Quote Originally Posted by Mike Alexander '59
The Presdient refused to go after Zarquawi. He was the only terrorist in Iraq prior to the war that had any connection to al Qaeda and Bush didn't want him dead--otherwise it would be that much harder to make the claim that Saddam was allied with Bin Laden. Of course, he was hiding in Kurdistan, under US protection, where Saddam couldn't get him, which makes this assertion doubtful. But true believers like our own DA can have no doubts about The Leader.
I only wonder, other than based upon his experience with a baseball team, how you all have come to read the mind of this Bush fellow so keenly. Are these White Papers you're reading or do you visit the local palm-reader for these insider scoops on U.S. foreign policy?

Baseball team. Oil companies. Air National Guard.
Past performance does not guarentee future results, but one doesn't need to be a palm reader to see a pattern of failure. :!:







Post#279 at 06-13-2006 01:32 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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06-13-2006, 01:32 PM #279
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  • Two years later, 40 percent are dead...
I like Bush's batting average. And I really think the raging hate & angst of his detractors and enemies is merely proof of his effectiveness.

Keep your eyes trained to the latest bogus scandal news story, however, and the latest push-poll numbers proudly displayed on page one. I wouldn't want to see ya lose all hope.







Post#280 at 06-13-2006 02:01 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Re: How do you know this stuff?

Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate
Quote Originally Posted by Mike Alexander '59
The Presdient refused to go after Zarquawi. He was the only terrorist in Iraq prior to the war that had any connection to al Qaeda and Bush didn't want him dead--otherwise it would be that much harder to make the claim that Saddam was allied with Bin Laden. Of course, he was hiding in Kurdistan, under US protection, where Saddam couldn't get him, which makes this assertion doubtful. But true believers like our own DA can have no doubts about The Leader.
I only wonder, other than based upon his experience with a baseball team, how you all have come to read the mind of this Bush fellow so keenly. Are these White Papers you're reading or do you visit the local palm-reader for these insider scoops on U.S. foreign policy?
So you prefer incompetent, then. OK. Bush is, was and apparently will continue to be incompetent. Happy now?
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#281 at 06-13-2006 02:05 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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06-13-2006, 02:05 PM #281
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Re: How do you know this stuff?

Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon
So you prefer incompetent, then.
I was just wondering how you folks know that Bush intended this or that. Do you prefer the local astrologist for these insider scoops on U.S. foreign policy?







Post#282 at 06-13-2006 02:06 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate
  • Two years later, 40 percent are dead...
I like Bush's batting average. And I really think the raging hate & angst of his detractors and enemies is merely proof of his effectiveness.

Keep your eyes trained to the latest bogus scandal news story, however, and the latest push-poll numbers proudly displayed on page one. I wouldn't want to see ya lose all hope.
Is this a Wild Ass Guess, or do you have supporting evidence? Since we appear to be incapable od counting how many innocent civilians have died in Iraq, how can we so accurately count the insurgant dead ... and living? I guess some things are simply amazing. :o
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#283 at 06-13-2006 02:14 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Re: How do you know this stuff?

Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate
Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon
So you prefer incompetent, then.
I was just wondering how you folks know that Bush intended this or that. Do you prefer the local astrologist for these insider scoops on U.S. foreign policy?
It's either a case of venality or incompetence. I don't claim to know and really don't care. Beelzebub or Beelzeboob: take your pick.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#284 at 06-13-2006 02:26 PM by salsabob [at Washington DC joined Jan 2005 #posts 746]
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Re: How do you know this stuff?

Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon
Beelzebub or Beelzeboob: take your pick.
gad, that was funny :lol: Thanks, I need that!
"Che l'uomo il suo destin fugge di raro [For rarely man escapes his destiny]" - Ludovico Ariosto







Post#285 at 06-13-2006 05:25 PM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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Want freedom fries with that?

The Repast Corvine


Quote Originally Posted by While dining on black-feathered bird, Mr. John Derbyshire
Since the Iraq war was obviously a gross blunder, is it time for those of us who cheered on the war to offer some kind of apology? Here we are—we, the United States—in our fourth year of occupying that sinkhole, and it looks pretty much like the third year, or the second. Will the eighth year of our occupation, or our twelfth, look any better? I know people who will say yes, but I no longer know any who will say it with real conviction. It’s a tough thing, to admit you were wrong. It’s way tough if you’re a big-name pundit with a reputation to preserve. For those of us down at the bottom of the pundit pecking order, the stakes aren’t so high. I, at any rate, am willing to eat some crow and say: I wish I had never given any support to this fool war.







Post#286 at 06-13-2006 08:14 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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Re: Want freedom fries with that?

Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari
The Repast Corvine
Quote Originally Posted by National Review
Since the Iraq war was obviously a gross blunder...
Gee, that warmongering National Review rag is now worth quoting, eh, Sage Saari? Let's get out NOW, just like Clean Gene and McGovern wanted years ago. That way the millions slaughtered in the aftermath (aka Pol Pot) won't have a ton of human bloodletting to blame America for.

History repeats. Cute. :wink:







Post#287 at 06-13-2006 10:59 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Re: Want freedom fries with that?

Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate
Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari
The Repast Corvine
Quote Originally Posted by National Review
Since the Iraq war was obviously a gross blunder...
Gee, that warmongering National Review rag is now worth quoting, eh, Sage Saari? Let's get out NOW, just like Clean Gene and McGovern wanted years ago. That way the millions slaughtered in the aftermath (aka Pol Pot) won't have a ton of human bloodletting to blame America for.

History repeats. Cute. :wink:
Didn't actually read it, did you? You might try it before posting.

Derbyshire is a typical armchair warrior, hellbent on sending others into battle to make a point he feels is so terribly important and urgent, but one not requiring his direct participation. He also expects things done the right way, with aplomb and panache, and most importanly, before dinner. He also prefers his wars a bit ruthless, a reason sufficient to restrain him from more active participation.

The only place one can find war in this vein is Hollywood. I will recommend it the him if I see him.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#288 at 06-13-2006 11:03 PM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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Progress Report

From Pew

:arrow: :arrow: :arrow:
Quote Originally Posted by Pew
America's global image has again slipped and support for the war on terrorism has declined even among close U.S. allies like Japan. The war in Iraq is a continuing drag on opinions of the United States, not only in predominantly Muslim countries but in Europe and Asia as well. And despite growing concern over Iran's nuclear ambitions, the U.S. presence in Iraq is cited at least as often as Iran - and in many countries much more often - as a danger to world peace.







Post#289 at 06-14-2006 02:13 AM by [at joined #posts ]
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06-14-2006, 02:13 AM #289
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Re: Want freedom fries with that?

Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon
Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate
History repeats. Cute. :wink:
Didn't actually read it, did you? You might try it before posting.
War is hell, else we'll grow quite fond of it. Have you actually come to grips with what al Qeada would like to do to your head, dude?

Oops, I'm sorry, it's those other folks heads in play here. Dubya sucks. We've gotta quit pissin' these folks off and just try an' understand 'em better. Peee you! 8)







Post#290 at 06-14-2006 02:26 AM by [at joined #posts ]
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06-14-2006, 02:26 AM #290
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon
Is this a Wild Ass Guess, or do you have supporting evidence?
Not that it makes any difference (it will not), but you can find the AP link I posted on the previous page in this thread. Otherwise please ignore said "supporting evidence."







Post#291 at 06-14-2006 09:54 AM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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C>A>R>R>H>A>E>








Post#292 at 06-14-2006 12:22 PM by salsabob [at Washington DC joined Jan 2005 #posts 746]
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Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate
  • Two years later, 40 percent are dead...
Oh, Da, I wish it was that easy.

Madrid, London and Toronto are indicative of the countertrend -

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060613/...ecurity_usa_dc

Not only an increased possibility of terror on the homefront, but an increased possibility of a paranoid reactive police state

I think we all want to avoid this future; we differ on some of the how's. To completely blame Bush or to completely hold him blameless are not only both moronic, but both unhelpful.

Mistakes were made, but where do we go from here?
"Che l'uomo il suo destin fugge di raro [For rarely man escapes his destiny]" - Ludovico Ariosto







Post#293 at 06-14-2006 12:42 PM by salsabob [at Washington DC joined Jan 2005 #posts 746]
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"Che l'uomo il suo destin fugge di raro [For rarely man escapes his destiny]" - Ludovico Ariosto







Post#294 at 06-14-2006 02:36 PM by Zarathustra [at Where the Northwest meets the Southwest joined Mar 2003 #posts 9,198]
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Quote Originally Posted by salsabob
Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate
  • Two years later, 40 percent are dead...
Oh, Da, I wish it was that easy.

Madrid, London and Toronto are indicative of the countertrend -

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060613/...ecurity_usa_dc

Not only an increased possibility of terror on the homefront, but an increased possibility of a paranoid reactive police state

I think we all want to avoid this future; we differ on some of the how's. To completely blame Bush or to completely hold him blameless are not only both moronic, but both unhelpful.

Mistakes were made, but where do we go from here?
Investigate Ohio 2004 and perhaps have a new election. Then allow the mothers of dead servicemen to sue MonkeyBoy's @ss in civil courts. Perhaps bring him up on criminal charges too.

Regarding Iraq specifically either:

A) Reinstate the draft, add hundreds of billions in new defense spending, and put 400,000 troops into Iraq like we should have to begin with if we were going to play to win.

OR

B) Pull the f*ck out and tell the UN it's their mess.

Bad options all 'round.
Americans have had enough of glitz and roar . . Foreboding has deepened, and spiritual currents have darkened . . .
THE FOURTH TURNING IS AT HAND.
See T4T, p. 253.







Post#295 at 06-15-2006 07:34 PM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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L' courbeau

Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Dennis Dale, not a professional writer, with no scholastic credentials, & is not recognized as an authority on any subject, and is not respected in any field.
We have somehow created an atmosphere where no matter how wrong someone is and no matter how far reaching the consequences of their mistakes, they still suffer more professional and personal damage by admitting error and adopting to new realities than by holding the line, dissembling and discrediting their opponents to the bitter end. Spin, spin, sugar.

Admit you're wrong and your fellows will denounce you; your president, no matter how faithfully you've served, will destroy you if your honesty threatens the administration.
DD:"Presented with the shameful mendacity of our president, the corruption of both political parties, and the negligent silence of the media, Derbyshire accepts uncritically the dubious alibi of an administration that has red up to its elbows and fobs it all off on the CIA as a hapless and inept postal service of imperialism. This after the administration did everything to present the hazy and incomplete view of Saddam's war machine as a crystal clear vision of impending doom."







Post#296 at 06-18-2006 02:35 PM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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Via the Washington _Post_

A Cable from C>A>R>R>H>A>E> .pdf (requires Acrobat reader or other .pdf program)







Post#297 at 06-19-2006 09:16 AM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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Practice what you preach

Quote Originally Posted by ~Spengler~ of the Asia [i
Times[/i]]Belief in the Rapture followed by seven years of tribulation does not quite qualify as strategic realism, but it might be a more practical guide to foreign policy than, say, belief in the Balance of Power or in the democratization of the Middle East. I do not believe in a coming Rapture, but I do not think it any less likely than the success of democracy in that region. In fact, Apocalyptic inclinations provide a better sort of mental preparation for Middle Eastern politics than the pap dished out by the political scientists. Sadly, there are no solutions to the problems that bedevil the region.


...The rational criteria by which diplomats attempt to resolve conflicts do not apply to conflicts whose origin lies not in rational self-interest, but in existential desperation. ... And normalcy, as I have argued in the past, is overrated.
~S~:"Americans know that they are on their way, but do not know quite where they are going, or how they will know when they get there. The end of the American journey only can be conceived in apocalyptic terms. In the mega-churches of the US exurbs, Darby's tones strike a chord in the American spirit."







Post#298 at 06-19-2006 09:30 AM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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If it's not Darby, It's Trotsky..

SJM: "By the standards of Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, our neoconservatives are not conservative, they are neosoviet."

Quote Originally Posted by Mr. S. J. Masty in the [i
Times[/i] (UK)]Recently, over rich Afghan ravioli called mantu, a former mujaheddin commander warned me about what was happening. I have been both a relief worker and a writer in Afghanistan, and I have known him almost 20 years. He is now a lawmaker in the new national assembly and as committed to democracy as ever.


“You will lose two wars through the same mistake,” he said. “In our civil war with the northerners, there were only three kinds of Pashtun people who had no dealings with the Taliban — the hopelessly stupid, a handful of western liberals who mostly emigrated, or people too foul to be allowed even into the Taliban.


“By banning even moderate Talibs from government, you excluded the only people who could have brought the majority of Pashtuns into the coalition. Instead you made (President) Hamid Karzai pick his governors from the worst kinds of thieves and killers, serial pederasts and pimps — the very people that the Taliban were initially adored for toppling.”
:arrow: :arrow: :arrow:







Post#299 at 06-20-2006 07:19 PM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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In Helmand fields the Poppies blow








Post#300 at 06-20-2006 08:51 PM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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Shanghai-ed

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