Originally Posted by herbal tee

Under the doctrine of unitary executive being pushed by the Bushites, those Canadian senators will be nothing more than the same kind of rubber stamps that American senators have acted like scince 911.

This has had be very worried for a while now. Truly scary stuff. And Witchie wonders how I could think that nearly half our population is buying off on a mass pychosis. This isn't about Left or Right. There are many right-leaning libertarians and even a few social conservatives who realize how dangerous this is.

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Indeed. At this rate, Anschluss awaits. Just imagine the power of the Canadians in the Senate!

I'm already on record predicting Anschluss by 2010, as the most likely response to Peak Oil. That's why I'm not moving there. (That, and I'd have to leave my kids behind, tho Seattle is just a day trip from Vancouver BC...)

An Anchluss may actually not be a bad idea if implemented correctly. What north america in general needs is an political/economic union complete with sweeping reforms to create an united political spectrum. This would include closer economic ties with other north american nations but also heavy protectionist procautions regarding trade with the rest of the world.

A centralized government would improve both our economic and security situations combined with a offensive doctrine based army geared toward waging total war against enemies rather than our current limited war geared military.

Originally Posted by Cynic Hero '86

An Anchluss may actually not be a bad idea if implemented correctly. What north america in general needs is an political/economic union complete with sweeping reforms to create an united political spectrum. This would include closer economic ties with other north american nations but also heavy protectionist procautions regarding trade with the rest of the world.

A centralized government would improve both our economic and security situations combined with a offensive doctrine based army geared toward waging total war against enemies rather than our current limited war geared military.

It's posts like this that confirm Generational Theory to me. The notion that somebody younger than me would so matter-of-factly support taking over another sovereign country, and even emphasize the positive aspects of such an action, reminds me just how radically different the worldview of the Millies is from my generation.

I'm not even going to argue the pros and cons here. It would be like arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin: it presupposes the concrete existence of realities that are so foreign to my experience and understanding as to render language useless.

Boomers I can at least comprehend... I think they're generally idiots, but I understand their motivations. The youth of today... ???

(Do I sound like a old fart yet?)

The logic of my proposal is simple when you take into the account the extermely misguided efforts of the silent and boomer establishment to create a globalist world order, an endevour that is clearly failing miserably. The solution is obvious: the creation of an american-controlled Pan-american sphere of influence and embarking on efforts reduce reliance on resources outside of that sphere of influence to the barest minimum.

The only reason our current political leaders are able to stay in office is because there is no opposition party that has the will to propose policies that would make our nation great again. Our current leadership refuse because of ideological prejudices against efficient government and "Just do it" decision making that our government has become a byword for indescision and gridlock. In the real world nations respect those who take force action and show contempt for those who vacillate and procrastinate, what is the point of being a supposedly strong nation and not using said strength to press your advantages.

Originally Posted by Cynic Hero '86

The logic of my proposal is simple when you take into the account the extermely misguided efforts of the silent and boomer establishment to create a globalist world order, an endevour that is clearly failing miserably. The solution is obvious: the creation of an american-controlled Pan-american sphere of influence and embarking on efforts reduce reliance on resources outside of that sphere of influence to the barest minimum.

The only reason our current political leaders are able to stay in office is because there is no opposition party that has the will to propose policies that would make our nation great again. Our current leadership refuse because of ideological prejudices against efficient government and "Just do it" decision making that our government has become a byword for indescision and gridlock. In the real world nations respect those who take force action and show contempt for those who vacillate and procrastinate, what is the point of being a supposedly strong nation and not using said strength to press your advantages.

I read your words, and recognize the shapes, but as for understanding them I might as well be a dsylexic trying to decipher Swahili. I am simply unable to wrap my head around the notion that America might actually be a force for good in the world. I can contemplate the notion, to be sure, in the same sort of philosophical counterfactual way that The Man In The High Castle contemplated a world where the Axis had won WWII, or how my life might be if I had an extra pair of arms. But I can't feel it.

Consider it the curse of my generation. We've known only the America with the reverse Midas touch: everything she touches turns to shit. We see her as the aged starlet with too much makeup covering too many wrinkles, and we are unable to imagine her with the vitality of her lost youth. And so it is with us; even the frequent poster with the screen name uncannily similar to yours phrases his jingoistic pronouncements in terms of ruthless realpolitik.

But why should you care about the ramblings of a middle-aged man with middle-age spread, old before his time? Because over the next decade, my generation will be taking over the levers of power, and we will seek to form a New American Order reflective of our experience: a kindler, humbler, smaller America, who earns a seat at the table through obeying the Rule of Law. This is a project that will be mightily opposed by those of your generation, and those of Mr. X's as well.

Experience, logic and simple demographics give me every reason to believe we will fail at this endeavor, with catastrophic consequences for the nation and the world. But as the wizened sage of my youth admonished: "Do or do not. There is no try."

I too see that america if it continues in it's current direction would lead to disaster; however there is another way, the way of greatness, sacrifices would be requiered, but that is expected in 4T's. We need a combination of Caeser, Diocletian, and the New Deal, strong-willed leadership that would use the country's resources for the good of the nation. We need to recognize and respect the newfound great power status of such countries as china and India and their natural spheres of influence. I agree that our current position is untenable, therefore the route of autarky and militarization is the logical solution to preserve a decent way of life without relying on corporate plunder and the goodwill of the other powers. We need to retool our economy away from services and backed toward fixed capita infrastructure. Self-reliance should be our goal, and if we do not flinch from that goal, our nation would once again be the energetic nation that we had before about 1972 or so instead of the bloated nation we currently are.

I too see that america if it continues in it's current direction would lead to disaster; however there is another way, the way of greatness, sacrifices would be requiered, but that is expected in 4T's. We need a combination of Caeser, Diocletian, and the New Deal, strong-willed leadership that would use the country's resources for the good of the nation. We need to recognize and respect the newfound great power status of such countries as china and India and their natural spheres of influence. I agree that our current position is untenable, therefore the route of autarky and militarization is the logical solution to preserve a decent way of life without relying on corporate plunder and the goodwill of the other powers. We need to retool our economy away from services and backed toward fixed capita infrastructure. Self-reliance should be our goal, and if we do not flinch from that goal, our nation would once again be the energetic nation that we had before about 1972 or so instead of the bloated power we currently are.

Originally Posted by Cynic Hero '86

I too see that america if it continues in it's current direction would lead to disaster; however there is another way, the way of greatness, sacrifices would be requiered, but that is expected in 4T's. We need a combination of Caeser, Diocletian, and the New Deal, strong-willed leadership that would use the country's resources for the good of the nation. We need to recognize and respect the newfound great power status of such countries as china and India and their natural spheres of influence. I agree that our current position is untenable, therefore the route of autarky and militarization is the logical solution to preserve a decent way of life without relying on corporate plunder and the goodwill of the other powers. We need to retool our economy away from services and backed toward fixed capita infrastructure. Self-reliance should be our goal, and if we do not flinch from that goal, our nation would once again be the energetic nation that we had before about 1972 or so instead of the bloated nation we currently are.

I agree with you about us being on the wrong course, and disagree with Finch that America can't be a force for good in the world. But I can't buy off on a path of autarky and militarization. I'll write more on that when I get the chance.

Also, do you really think Caesar and Diocletian are good models?!? The first represents the death of the Roman Republic and the second represents the calcification of the later Empire. I myself would rather we remain a flexible republic.

Originally Posted by Finch

Consider it the curse of my generation. We've known only the America with the reverse Midas touch: everything she touches turns to shit. We see her as the aged starlet with too much makeup covering too many wrinkles, and we are unable to imagine her with the vitality of her lost youth. And so it is with us; even the frequent poster with the screen name uncannily similar to yours phrases his jingoistic pronouncements in terms of ruthless realpolitik... over the next decade, my generation will be taking over the levers of power, and we will seek to form a New American Order reflective of our experience: a kindler, humbler, smaller America, who earns a seat at the table through obeying the Rule of Law. This is a project that will be mightily opposed by those of your generation, and those of Mr. X's as well.

Experience, logic and simple demographics give me every reason to believe we will fail at this endeavor, with catastrophic consequences for the nation and the world. But as the wizened sage of my youth admonished: "Do or do not. There is no try."

Many in these threads have compaired the boomers to the trancendentalists. Assuming a similar tragectory for the outcome of the boomer fueled (pun intended) crises, the X'ers may find themselves in a similar situation to that of the guilded. Namely, taking over a broken country with high levels of suffering that has discredited the elder idealist generation and, for two turnings anyway, idealism in general.


One thing I will add is that being a joneser cusper form the 1961 cohort, I remember a tiny bit of the old starlet's charm circa 1966-68. The adults did seem to know what they were doing in my early childhood years and there was a sense of national unity that was gone by 1969. It sort of reappeared after 911 but was gone by the summer of 2002 when attention turned away from the clear need to do something about Afghanistan toward the more questionable issue of Iraq. Now with talk starting to center on invading Iran, part of me fears that if the current path remains unchecked by 2009 we may already be in a practical situation like that in 1861 after the firing on Fort Sumpter. By this I mean that with a series of unwinnable middle eastern wars that have locked in an implacable hatred of America and Americans by over a billion moslems around the globe. We could be in a situation in that a failed 4t may be hardwired into place in the the next three years and all that can be done is to limit the damage internaly and externally. This could lead by 2012 or 2016 to a long period of very cautious X'er rule that rebuilds from the useful and salvagable scraps remaining at that time.

First we learn that our own intelligence agencies believe Iraq has bettered the cause of anti-American terrorism in the world (I mean wouldn't the anti-Soviet cause in Afghanistan have given a clue of what was to come?).

Now we learn that the majority of the American people blame Dubya for not capturing Osama bin Laden. http://www.galluppoll.com/content/?ci=24733

Maybe if he had spent $300 billion fighting our more pressing enemies and pulled a little more "We will paleolithicize you" on the Pakistanis we would be better off today!

I am actually looking forward to how HC will spin all of this. Any bets on what he'll say?

Originally Posted by herbal tee

Many in these threads have compaired the boomers to the trancendentalists. Assuming a similar tragectory for the outcome of the boomer fueled (pun intended) crises, the X'ers may find themselves in a similar situation to that of the guilded. Namely, taking over a broken country with high levels of suffering that has discredited the elder idealist generation and, for two turnings anyway, idealism in general.

This time it's different thought. By Lincoln's first election the eldest Progressives were 17. Today, the eldest Millennials (using S&H's estimation) are 24. And if the poop waits to hit the fan another year or two, then we're talking 25 or 26. It is now unlikely that the Millies will cower into an Artist archetype. Certainly the first wave can't now. We will have our Heroes, it seems.

Xers will have dominant archetype (in the Millies) with which to share power in the upcoming 1T. The Gilded did not have this, since the Progressives morphed into a relatively recessive generation (using S&H's terms from Generations).

As for turning away from idealism, that will happen regardless, just as the civic spirit is missing now, and has been for a while. Perhaps you mean the intensity of the aversion to idealism could end up being great? Quite possibly. There is little doubt that the Boomers are more similar to the Transies than to the Mish in their fervor.

And now the people who were supposed to have greeted us with flowers . . .
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060927/...huBHNlYwNtdHM-

I suppose HC will tell us that it's Bill Clinton's fault. And speaking of that . . . some props are in order for Rudy for having some class:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060928/...kxBHNlYwN0bQ--

I guess Rudy is a liberal, eh HC?

If they made a 'Police Acamedy' movie in Iraq, it wouldn't be a comedy.

Lott went on to say he has difficulty understanding the motivations behind the violence in Iraq.

"It's hard for Americans, all of us, including me, to understand what's wrong with these people," he said. "Why do they kill people of other religions because of religion? Why do they hate the Israeli's and despise their right to exist? Why do they hate each other? Why do Sunnis kill Shiites? How do they tell the difference? They all look the same to me."[Emphasis Added]

Beautiful.

http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/blogs/po...d-iraq-in.html

Originally Posted by Finch

I read your words, and recognize the shapes, but as for understanding them I might as well be a dsylexic trying to decipher Swahili. I am simply unable to wrap my head around the notion that America might actually be a force for good in the world. I can contemplate the notion, to be sure, in the same sort of philosophical counterfactual way that The Man In The High Castle contemplated a world where the Axis had won WWII, or how my life might be if I had an extra pair of arms. But I can't feel it.

Consider it the curse of my generation. We've known only the America with the reverse Midas touch: everything she touches turns to shit. We see her as the aged starlet with too much makeup covering too many wrinkles, and we are unable to imagine her with the vitality of her lost youth. And so it is with us; even the frequent poster with the screen name uncannily similar to yours phrases his jingoistic pronouncements in terms of ruthless realpolitik.

But why should you care about the ramblings of a middle-aged man with middle-age spread, old before his time? Because over the next decade, my generation will be taking over the levers of power, and we will seek to form a New American Order reflective of our experience: a kindler, humbler, smaller America, who earns a seat at the table through obeying the Rule of Law. This is a project that will be mightily opposed by those of your generation, and those of Mr. X's as well.

Experience, logic and simple demographics give me every reason to believe we will fail at this endeavor, with catastrophic consequences for the nation and the world. But as the wizened sage of my youth admonished: "Do or do not. There is no try."

Don't worry about the future of the country; although it is not in good hands today, that situation would likely change by 2009, 2013 at the latest. Its not so much that america is growing old, its that our country has not had a meaningful direction since the nixon years. That will change, can you feel the recent political rumblings, not only that the public is dissatisfied by the administration, its that an ever increasing percentage of the populace is waiting for a great leader, a great government, a savior who will show the way and restore the luster and glory lost over the past 40 years.

Given the history between the sunnis and the shiites and also the strife in palestine and the mideast in general; is it such a suprise that the factions there would feel the need to crack open a few heads every once and awile?

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

I agree with you about us being on the wrong course, and disagree with Finch that America can't be a force for good in the world. But I can't buy off on a path of autarky and militarization. I'll write more on that when I get the chance.

Also, do you really think Caesar and Diocletian are good models?!? The first represents the death of the Roman Republic and the second represents the calcification of the later Empire. I myself would rather we remain a flexible republic.

I too can become pessimistic and sometimes doubtful of my country's intentions. I wonder though if our pessimism is what leads us to not the best intentions; that when we become afraid for the future is when we get stupid.

But, perhaps we are just one or two technologies away from changing everything. For example, I posted this link on another thread on 'energy and the environment -

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006...capacito_1.php

Combined with advances in making coal burning much less intrusive on the environment and all of a sudden oil-exporting countries are only slightly more important to us than pistachio exporters. And given that I think any long-term strategic threat from China is hogwash, why would we need to continue sticking our military noses into anything especially the ME hornets' nest? Without the petro-dollars and the rest of world zooming further ahead, let the ME peoples deal with the insufficiencies of not only their governments, but their culture and religion.

With just the successful adoption of this one technology, perhaps our 4T would consist of not having enough US autoworkers and dealing with a booming export surplus? Who knows?

Ah, I love how Mekong Whiskey makes you think so much better! And, I got my fingers crossed.

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

Beautiful.

http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/blogs/po...d-iraq-in.html

Yeah, Trent--if some of them were black you could understand it, right?

David K '47

D_N__L in which Mr. Bob Woodward purchases some vowels (to refurbish his reputation for wisdoms Washingtonian) comes out this weekend.

Originally Posted by KaiserD2

Yeah, Trent--if some of them were black you could understand it, right?

David K '47

Hey, his hero Strom could tell the difference with at least one.

A-rab Arithmetic-- Ambition, Distraction, Uglification and Derision

Dead enders indeed!

If you still insist on arguing that it isn't taking place, see:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...101500206.html

David K '47

Originally Posted by KaiserD2

If you still insist on arguing that it isn't taking place, see:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...101500206.html

David K '47

We must move beyond the debate of whether there is civil war or not. We need to decide where to further promote and take advantage of stability (i.e., Kurdistan) and where to help 'let it rip' (i.e. Sunnistan and Shiastan, including Iran).

Originally Posted by KaiserD2

If you still insist on arguing that it isn't taking place, see:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...101500206.html

David K '47

From the article Dave linked:

The violence around Balad, a Shiite enclave in a largely Sunni region, began Friday with the kidnapping and beheading of 17 Shiite farmworkers from Duluiyah, a predominantly Sunni town.

The "head choppers" strike.

Taysser Musawi, a Shiite cleric in Balad, said Shiite leaders in the town appealed to a Baghdad office of Moqtada al-Sadr, an influential Shiite cleric, to send militiamen to defend local Shiites and to take revenge. Sadr's political party is a member of a Shiite religious alliance that governs Iraq.

Shiite fighters responded in force, local police said. Witnesses said Shiite fighters began hunting down Sunnis, allegedly setting up checkpoints in the area to stop travelers and demand whether they were Shiite or Sunni.

By Sunday afternoon, 80 bodies were stacked in the morgue of the Balad hospital, the only sizable medical center in the region, physician Kamal al-Haidari said by telephone. Most of the victims had been shot in the head, he said. Other hospital officials said some of the bodies had holes from electric drills and showed other signs of torture.

The "skull drillers" strike back.

Of course John X doesn't think this war of head choppers versus skull drillers doesn't constitute "genocidal fury".