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Thread: What book attracted you to S&H's theories? - Page 2







Post#26 at 07-23-2005 09:02 AM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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Quote Originally Posted by Mike Alexander '59
Quote Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate
Uh, I am not the "Devil," but merely his "Advocate." Sorta like a lawyer, who defends the indefensible.
Alliteratively, Attorney for Asmodeus, Belial's Barrister, Lucifer's Lawyer or Satan's Solicitor.

As for the topic question, I first learned about Strauss and Howe's Generations from Harry Dent's book The Great Boom Ahead.
It this line:

Lord of the Flies' Swatter

and the coprolitic
The Evil One's Number Two







Post#27 at 07-24-2005 04:45 PM by Bruce [at Saskatoon, Canada joined Apr 2005 #posts 85]
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Of course, that's just what we could expect the 'Devil' to say.

(And if the Devil has a profession, I wouldn't be too surprised if it turned out to be 'lawyer'.)

[Just kidding, Mr. Advocate, in case I end up there ]







Post#28 at 07-24-2005 10:00 PM by Rain Man [at Bendigo, Australia joined Jun 2001 #posts 1,303]
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The book that attracted me to Strauss and Howe was Harry S Dent's Roaring 2000's which I bought back in 2000.
"If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion"

L. Ron Hubbard







Post#29 at 04-16-2006 08:41 PM by Chip'67 [at Virginia joined Feb 2003 #posts 14]
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For me, it was the book Generations....,

I checked it out from the library in the early 1990's. I found it very interesting.







Post#30 at 04-16-2006 11:08 PM by herbal tee [at joined Dec 2005 #posts 7,116]
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Hello Chip'67. I believe this is the post by you that I've read. I first heard of Generations from the C-SPAN episode about it on Booknotes. This was sometime near the summer of 1993. Shortly after, I located the book from a library.







Post#31 at 04-17-2006 02:07 AM by The Pervert [at A D&D Character sheet joined Jan 2002 #posts 1,169]
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Re: Generations - in the very beginning

Quote Originally Posted by wesvolk
I was fortunate enough to catch Mssrs. Strauss & Howe on one of the earliest C-SPAN Booknotes programs (late-1990?) talking about "Generations." Utterly fascinating stuff.
Same here, then the Atlantic Monthly article. I bought my first copy in 1993. I've bought three more copies and given them out as gifts.
Your local general nuisance
"I am not an alter ego. I am an unaltered id!"







Post#32 at 04-17-2006 07:14 PM by Croakmore [at The hazardous reefs of Silentium joined Nov 2001 #posts 2,426]
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Re: Generations - in the very beginning

Quote Originally Posted by The Pervert
Quote Originally Posted by wesvolk
I was fortunate enough to catch Mssrs. Strauss & Howe on one of the earliest C-SPAN Booknotes programs (late-1990?) talking about "Generations." Utterly fascinating stuff.
Same here, then the Atlantic Monthly article. I bought my first copy in 1993. I've bought three more copies and given them out as gifts.
Interesting. I did exactly the same thing. Two of the books went to Ph.D. scientists, working in the consulting industry. The other one went to my ex-wife, who was a landscape architech. She was the only one to see any value in S&H's theory. I happen to have my '93 copy of Generations on my desk right now; it looks like a lab manual that got involved with an experiment.

—Croakmore







Post#33 at 04-17-2006 10:27 PM by XerTeacher [at joined Dec 2005 #posts 682]
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I read 13th Gen in 2000 and wept like a baby. A few years later, I picked up the other books.

Every time I read about my generation in particular, and Nomads in general, I get pretty emotional. Which is an un-Nomadic response... I know my script better than that.

"Yeah, life sucks, whatever."
XerTeacher ~ drawing breath since the Summer of Sam
"GenXers are doing the quiet work of keeping America from sucking." --Jeff Gordinier







Post#34 at 04-19-2006 02:11 PM by albatross '82 [at Portland, OR joined Sep 2005 #posts 248]
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I was bored, clicking around Wikipedia about a month before the 2004 election, when I stumbled on an article about their theory. I went out and bought Generations immediately, and have read everything except 13th Gen since. The Fourth Turning is probably my favorite, if only for the rad Star Wars analogy!







Post#35 at 04-21-2006 12:11 PM by Croakmore [at The hazardous reefs of Silentium joined Nov 2001 #posts 2,426]
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Quote Originally Posted by albatross '82
I was bored, clicking around Wikipedia about a month before the 2004 election, when I stumbled on an article about their theory. I went out and bought Generations immediately, and have read everything except 13th Gen since. The Fourth Turning is probably my favorite, if only for the rad Star Wars analogy!
Interesting! Robert Bly does almost the same generational thing with the Jack-And-The-Beanstalk myth in his book The Sibling Society. I think Bly explains, from another angle, why Xers are Xers. Indeed we can and should blame the Silents for the Beat-ness of Xers. The Boomers were not Beat — they were Butterflies.

—Croakmore







Post#36 at 01-03-2007 03:05 AM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by albatross '82 View Post
I was bored, clicking around Wikipedia about a month before the 2004 election, when I stumbled on an article about their theory. I went out and bought Generations immediately, and have read everything except 13th Gen since. The Fourth Turning is probably my favorite, if only for the rad Star Wars analogy!
LOL, I ran across the theorly the exact same way. Back last August I stumbled across the Wiki article on Generations and the rest was history.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#37 at 01-03-2007 03:50 AM by jadams [at the tropics joined Feb 2003 #posts 1,097]
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Thumbs up in the begininng there was the word

I was waiting in an airport, going to a meeting in Tallahassee, looking in the airport bookstore for something to read on the plane. I saw the title, Generations, and glanced at the book and bought it on a whim. I was knocked out by it. Hated having to go to meetings because they took me away from the book. It became my bible... it explained all. And for the next 15 years it became prophesy. These last few years I have become less "biblical" about it. But still love it. Great futurology.
jadams

"Can it be believed that the democracy that has overthrown the feudal system and vanquished kings will retreat before tradesmen and capitalists?" Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America







Post#38 at 01-03-2007 10:46 AM by Matt1989 [at joined Sep 2005 #posts 3,018]
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Quote Originally Posted by albatross '82 View Post
I was bored, clicking around Wikipedia about a month before the 2004 election, when I stumbled on an article about their theory. I went out and bought Generations immediately, and have read everything except 13th Gen since. The Fourth Turning is probably my favorite, if only for the rad Star Wars analogy!
I had a similar experience. I read an article in my school newspaper about our generation's future. It talked about the daily show and how we vote Democratic. It was a silly article. The next day I heard something about generation X on the radio. I went to Wikipedia and clicked around. A couple days later I went searching for Generations and found The Fourth Turning instead.







Post#39 at 01-19-2007 06:49 PM by wesvolk [at '56 Boomer from Andover, MN joined Aug 2001 #posts 150]
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15 Years is a Pretty Nice Run

Quote Originally Posted by jadams View Post
I saw the title, Generations, and glanced at the book and bought it on a whim. I was knocked out by it. Hated having to go to meetings because they took me away from the book. It became my bible... it explained all. And for the next 15 years it became prophesy. These last few years I have become less "biblical" about it. But still love it. Great futurology.
If we think about it, 15 years of relatively-high accuracy in "predicting the future" is doing pretty darn well. The past can shape and influence the future, but identifying the future based on the past was always a slippery slope.

All of us armchair theorists are keeping it very germane. This aspect, if anything of their work, must constantly amaze the authors, of what they have wrought. I'm just glad to be a very small piece of it.







Post#40 at 02-01-2007 07:42 PM by Neisha '67 [at joined Jul 2001 #posts 2,227]
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I voted in the poll, but it doesn't look like I've posted (although I think I remember talking about this before, maybe in the paleo-forum?). Anyway, 13th Gen made the rounds among my friends in the early 90s. That was my first introduction to S&H. We couldn't believe anyone had noticed what was happening to young people during that "mild" recession, especially 2boomers! I then found a used copy of Generations at Powells in, like, 1996 and was hooked. We got the Internet on one computer at work in 1998 (I was working at legal aid back then), and I discovered the 4T book. I got Internet access at my desk at work in 1999, discovered the forum, and started lurking and then participating in the forum.







Post#41 at 02-02-2007 08:50 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,505]
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Generations was the first, although I didn't actually read the book. I skimmed it since then. The Fourth Turning was very enjoyable and I like it better as a book, though Generations is the source of their basic theories.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#42 at 02-03-2007 02:52 AM by Roadbldr '59 [at Vancouver, Washington joined Jul 2001 #posts 8,281]
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The Las Vegas Sun had a full-spread article over Christmas holidays, 1996. I read it while I was in Sin City visiting my retired parents. The article was all about four generational "Archetypes", how they created and were created by "Turnings", then went on to describe the basic layout of Turnings and Generations over the last couple "Saculae". I was immediately hooked from the very first paragraph.

At the end of the article, the Authors informed us that their new book, "The Fourth Turning" would soon be available At A Bookstore Near You. I picked it up at the Brentano's Bookstore in Downtown Seattle, the first week it was out, the third week of January, 1997.

We got internet access at work around the same time I read T4T. However it wasn't until 1999, after reading the book probably four times over, that it occurred to me that there might be a related website. So I scanned over the outer cover and sure enough, found www.fourthturning.com. I started lurking in Spring 1999, made a few sporadic posts over the course of the year, but didn't become a regular poster until I'd moved to Columbus in early 2000.

Speaking of which, we just had the tenth anniversary of The Fourth Turning last week! Anyone do anything special, like a 4T beerfest at a local pub?
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King







Post#43 at 02-03-2007 11:20 AM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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Thumbs up Holiday-holy day

Quote Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59 View Post

Speaking of which, we just had the tenth anniversary of The Fourth Turning last week! Anyone do anything special, like a 4T beerfest at a local pub?
As my copies have been "lent" to other votaries of Clio, I borrowed the Old Testament, Generations, with all its begats, and the New Testament, The Fourth Turning, with its promise of the coming Better World!, from my local public library.

The holy books Anglo-spheric Apostolics seemed in line with the idea that the Rus have Turnings of a Personal and Autocratic nature rather than a Generational one. T4T is whiggery upon stilts, and where there is whiggery not, generationalism may not obtain.







Post#44 at 02-03-2007 01:59 PM by herbal tee [at joined Dec 2005 #posts 7,116]
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Quote Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari View Post
As my copies have been "lent" to other votaries of Clio, I borrowed the Old Testament, Generations, with all its begats, and the New Testament, The Fourth Turning, with its promise of the coming Better World!, from my local public library.
Interesting way of putting it.
However, does this mean that 13th Gen and Millinnals Rising qualify as appochrical literature?







Post#45 at 02-03-2007 02:33 PM by The Wonkette [at Arlington, VA 1956 joined Jul 2002 #posts 9,209]
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Perhaps Generations might be analogous to the Torah, and 13th Gen corresponds to the Haftorah. Millennials Rising is the Mishnah and Fourth Turning is the Talmud.
I want people to know that peace is possible even in this stupid day and age. Prem Rawat, June 8, 2008







Post#46 at 04-11-2016 03:23 AM by Taramarie [at Christchurch, New Zealand joined Jul 2015 #posts 2,769]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Wonkette View Post
What book attracted you to S&H's theories?

No book. I found the theory online from a simple hyperlink. I read the general idea about it online then looked up the videos on the idea and interviews of them talking about it.
1984 Civic
ISFJ
Introvert(69%) Sensing(6%) Feeling(19%) Judging(22%)







Post#47 at 04-11-2016 07:30 AM by MordecaiK [at joined Mar 2014 #posts 1,086]
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Quote Originally Posted by Taramarie View Post
No book. I found the theory online from a simple hyperlink. I read the general idea about it online then looked up the videos on the idea and interviews of them talking about it.
I found S&H's book by accident in an airport bookstore on the way to Australia in 1991.







Post#48 at 04-11-2016 12:29 PM by TnT [at joined Feb 2005 #posts 2,005]
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Listened to a Fourth Turning "book-on-tape" when I was day-tripping to Wolf Creek and back on a ski day shortly after 911. The book seemed prescient to me at the time, and I assumed that 911 was perhaps the catalyst.

Then I got Generations and it kind of all made sense. However, I'm not an advocate of The Theory in as precise a manner as some, I guess. Most of the intellectual product of humans tends toward abstract models - even language is the abstraction of what we each see as our reality. Models are never identities because if they were, they would be the thing.

Scientific models are intellectual constructs that help us simplify stuff that otherwise is too complex to think about, productively. Like stick models that we use in organic chemistry - they are very much simplified models that nonetheless allow us to do productive creative thinking.

The S&H "Model" is the same sort of thing - an oversimplified abstract structure that allows one to consider patterns in the macro-behavior realm of human behavior. I'm with Mikebert on this - it makes sense to keep testing it and testing it to see how much correlation, rigor, can be attached.
" ... a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition."







Post#49 at 04-11-2016 02:40 PM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,597]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Wonkette View Post
Perhaps Generations might be analogous to the Torah, and 13th Gen corresponds to the Haftorah. Millennials Rising is the Mishnah and Fourth Turning is the Talmud.
If this is so, we are missing many volumes to properly instruct everyone.







Post#50 at 04-11-2016 02:51 PM by The Wonkette [at Arlington, VA 1956 joined Jul 2002 #posts 9,209]
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Quote Originally Posted by radind View Post
If this is so, we are missing many volumes to properly instruct everyone.
Good grief! What on earth was I posting back then!
I want people to know that peace is possible even in this stupid day and age. Prem Rawat, June 8, 2008
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