Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

What is the holiest day for Christians? Christmas?

I'm not asking to be funny, I'm asking out of interest.

No, it's a serious and legitimate question. The answer is, in every branch of Christianity I've ever heard of, Easter.

Happy Easter Season.

Easter is far and away the holiest season. That's particularly true if you compare Lent to Advent. But Skabungus has a point. Maundy Thursday can legitimately be considered the holiest of those holy days, with everything from Holy Wednesday through Easter considered sacred. That's why Mardi Gras and Carnivale end on Fat Tuesday.

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

What is the holiest day for Christians? Christmas?

I'm not asking to be funny, I'm asking out of interest.

Christmas, of course. But that said, no "Good" Friday (Crucifixion) and Easter (Resurrection) means that Jesus was another fellow who said some things that troubled the Roman authorities and got killed for his troubles and then descended into oblivion or else got away long enough to seem nothing special.

I am satisfied that the Last Supper was a seder.

I was taking my usual cheap shot at Dubya, one that exploits Christian imagery. The working man has been crucified, at least figuratively, in economics and is due for a figurative resurrection. That won't happen until the Den of Thieves (the White House) is cleaned out, so nobody has to rise from the dead... but on that I could just as easily refer to the Augean stables as one of Hercules' labors, which would be a reference to pagan Greek mythology. I'm definitely not a believer in Greek mythology!

As one whose family tradition is best described as watered-down, secularized Calvinism -- nothing to celebrate but material gain once one gives up the fear of God -- it's easy to see why Christmas means more to my tradition.

With the increase in gas prices over the past three years, from under $2 to nearly $4 per gallon, I pose this question: Where are the gas lines?

The last time we had a comparable run-up in the cost of petrol was the period 1978-81, and we all know what happened in the Spring of '79. It would seem that Americans are not reacting the same as they did back then... i.e. panic-buying gasoline out of fear that they won't be able to afford to fill the tank next week, thus helping to create an artificial gas shortage. Instead, we're fatalistically filling up no more often than usual, and (perhaps) driving less.

The last Gas Crunch occured in a late 2T, and we're now early 4T. But what specifically about these two eras explains the difference in response?

Any ideas?

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

With the increase in gas prices over the past three years, from under $2 to nearly $4 per gallon, I pose this question: Where are the gas lines?

The last time we had a comparable run-up in the cost of petrol was the period 1978-81, and we all know what happened in the Spring of '79. It would seem that Americans are not reacting the same as they did back then... i.e. panic-buying gasoline out of fear that they won't be able to afford to fill the tank next week, thus helping to create an artificial gas shortage. Instead, we're fatalistically filling up no more often than usual, and (perhaps) driving less.

The last Gas Crunch occured in a late 2T, and we're now early 4T. But what specifically about these two eras explains the difference in response?

Any ideas?

I did see quite a few people top off (I did too) the night before Hurricane Rita hit. I have the feeling the wholesalers are keeping the brakes on price increases to keep this sort of thing from happening more often.

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

The last Gas Crunch occured in a late 2T, and we're now early 4T. But what specifically about these two eras explains the difference in response?

Any ideas?

The "shock" has worn off to be replaced by realization. Now days, people have sobered to the fact that energy costs (fuel for cars in particular) will be a significant household expense from here on out. Their response has been two fold.

A) accept it and set the required $$ asside, and a little extra to account for the likely increases over the short term.

B) change lifestyle/habits by driving less, buying better vehicles (MPG), carpooling, etc.

I commute 55 miles each way to work. I'm in a vanpool with 18 other people. I pay $124.00/month for all costs. That's what I used to pay a week when gas was $2.50/gallon. Last summer our van was swamped with applications by new riders. We are full so we turned them down. In response, 3 new vans were created all of which are now full. At work I know a number of people who live far away have relocated, or found week day accommodations in town to save money.

Even the republicans around here are talking about hybrids!

Originally Posted by Skabungus

The "shock" has worn off to be replaced by realization. Now days, people have sobered to the fact that energy costs (fuel for cars in particular) will be a significant household expense from here on out. Their response has been two fold.

A) accept it and set the required $$ asside, and a little extra to account for the likely increases over the short term.

B) change lifestyle/habits by driving less, buying better vehicles (MPG), carpooling, etc.

I commute 55 miles each way to work. I'm in a vanpool with 18 other people. I pay $124.00/month for all costs. That's what I used to pay a week when gas was $2.50/gallon. Last summer our van was swamped with applications by new riders. We are full so we turned them down. In response, 3 new vans were created all of which are now full. At work I know a number of people who live far away have relocated, or found week day accommodations in town to save money.

Even the republicans around here are talking about hybrids!

Are people starting to telecommute?

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

Are people starting to telecommute?

I have a little shrine I pray to just for that!

Not yet though. People seem to feel the State government and legislature should be in one place where "they" can keep an eye on them. Frankly, it would reduce govt. overhead by huge amounts! I cant understand why our conservatives in the legisature block such efforts. After all, you'd think since they are all about efficiency they'd back it.

Originally Posted by Skabungus

I have a little shrine I pray to just for that!

Not yet though. People seem to feel the State government and legislature should be in one place where "they" can keep an eye on them. Frankly, it would reduce govt. overhead by huge amounts! I cant understand why our conservatives in the legisature block such efforts. After all, you'd think since they are all about efficiency they'd back it.

Employers also want their employees - even those supposed to be professional-level - under their eyes where the bosses can satisfy themselves that Dr. Jones isn't goofing off or working in pajamas or feeding the baby during working hours. And so it is going to remain for everything except piecework like free-lance writing, if I know the Big Boss mentality.

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

What is the holiest day for Christians? Christmas?

I'm not asking to be funny, I'm asking out of interest.

I think Easter is considered to be more important, because it is the fulfillment of all that went before.

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

With the increase in gas prices over the past three years, from under $2 to nearly $4 per gallon, I pose this question: Where are the gas lines?

The last time we had a comparable run-up in the cost of petrol was the period 1978-81, and we all know what happened in the Spring of '79. It would seem that Americans are not reacting the same as they did back then... i.e. panic-buying gasoline out of fear that they won't be able to afford to fill the tank next week, thus helping to create an artificial gas shortage. Instead, we're fatalistically filling up no more often than usual, and (perhaps) driving less.

The last Gas Crunch occured in a late 2T, and we're now early 4T. But what specifically about these two eras explains the difference in response?

Any ideas?

The guys on the TeeVee today said that supply is fine, and we can blame high prices more on the sagging dollar.

Originally Posted by Flyingeye76

Lowering value of a dollar, oil market fears, need to drill in Alaska- excuses I'll never believe for this oil crises as long as these oil companies are making record breaking profits for each year since 2002. No, they know that the end of pure oil consumption is coming soon, so they're squeezing out every last dollar even if it means weakening the US and sending it into a depression.

The oil companies may be greedy, but they're not stupid. The refiners have actually reduced their profit margins significantly over the last year. They're actively trying to hold gas prices down. That's why gasoline hasn't hit $4/gal yet. They know that once it does cross that psychological line, there will be many more calls for investigations and regulations and whatnot.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

I was taking my usual cheap shot at Dubya, one that exploits Christian imagery. The working man has been crucified, at least figuratively, in economics and is due for a figurative resurrection. That won't happen until the Den of Thieves (the White House) is cleaned out, so nobody has to rise from the dead... but on that I could just as easily refer to the Augean stables as one of Hercules' labors, which would be a reference to pagan Greek mythology. I'm definitely not a believer in Greek mythology!

Heh. If you are a follower of any flavor of Christianity developed in the last 1800 years, then you're a believer in Greek mythology. Christianity after circa 200 CE was thoroughly Hellenized. Me, I just cut out the middleman and worship the Greek gods directly.

Vaguely back on the topic of this thread, don't expect a "resurrection". Gas prices aren't going to drop below $3 when Obama wins in November, or below $2 when he is sworn in. A better analogy is to your Christmas (my Yule), where we light candles for the longest night of the year, hoping that every day after will be a little brighter. And, of course, that's a great excuse for celebration...

Oddly enough, the price of gasoline on Main Street did tick downward a dime this week, to $3.399/499/599. Diesel, on the other hand, holds steady at $4.099 per gallon.

Curious also, how the tradition of pricing gallons of petrol to the thousandth of a dollar continues, long after it stopped making practical sense as it did when gasoline was, say 27.9 cents per gallon.

And now that I think about it, when was the last time I saw the pricing of ANYTHING using the 'cents' symbol... remember, that small letter 'c' with the slash through it?

Originally Posted by Finch

The oil companies may be greedy, but they're not stupid. The refiners have actually reduced their profit margins significantly over the last year. They're actively trying to hold gas prices down. That's why gasoline hasn't hit $4/gal yet. They know that once it does cross that psychological line, there will be many more calls for investigations and regulations and whatnot.

Which is why I don't believe in small government.

I'm not anti-business... business is neccessary for innovation, technological progress, generation of jobs that keep people productive and, frankly speaking, of taxes used by government to provide essential services that the public needs. However, we must keep in mind that their most basic function is to make money, period, by any means at their disposal... nothing personal.

By the same token, it is a basic function of a democratically-elected government to regulate business sufficiently to keep them honest, so in their quest for greater wealth they don't run roughshod over the needs and rights of We The People. As Finch has stated above, even the threat of such regulation is sometimes enough. This is a blessing, for a world where government is completely in the hip pocket of business (which is what we're drifting towards)... or worse, where business IS the government (the backstory of the 'Alien' movies)... would be a dangerous world indeed.

While bloated, top-heavy government bureaucracies are not the wisest use of resources, government does need to be massive enough to provide an effective counterbalance against the negative tendencies of Big Business. Gutted, outsourced government agencies cannot do this.

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

Oddly enough, the price of gasoline on Main Street did tick downward a dime this week, to $3.399/499/599. Diesel, on the other hand, holds steady at $4.099 per gallon.

Curious also, how the tradition of pricing gallons of petrol to the thousandth of a dollar continues, long after it stopped making practical sense as it did when gasoline was, say 27.9 cents per gallon.

And now that I think about it, when was the last time I saw the pricing of ANYTHING using the 'cents' symbol... remember, that small letter 'c' with the slash through it?

Indeed, you can't find the symbol for cents on a keyboard anymore. I've actually wanted to use that symbol on occasion and haven't been able to.

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

Indeed, you can't find the symbol for cents on a keyboard anymore. I've actually wanted to use that symbol on occasion and haven't been able to.

I've noticed that it kinda feels awkward to hand write it now too. Almost foreign... but who know's, maybe it's just me

Jenny - on a Mac, it's option 4. Bill Gates, should you be using one of his operating systems, surely would have thought of a way to have all kinds of special characters. Steve Jobs certainly did, all the way back in 1984 (including hearts for borders, if any Mac users can remember back that far).

Pax,

Dave Krein '42

Originally Posted by stab1969

I've noticed that it kinda feels awkward to hand write it (the cents sign) now too. Almost foreign... but who know's, maybe it's just me

It's inflation. Few items, and now nothing on a restaurant menu, in a store are now denominated in cents.

Dime stores are now "dollar stores".

Corner station is at

$3.76 reg
$3.89 mid
$4.05 prem

I haven't posted for a while due to a disabling injury which I hope to be recovered from soon, but with gas expected to hit $4/gal this summer, why is society still so apathetic in regards to trying to reduce auto dependency, which would obviously aid the environment a lot? I could say a lot more about this, but since I can only type with my left hand right now, and I am naturally right-handed, I shall let the rest of the board tackle this one for right now, having noticed that so far none of the candidates are talking about this, either. Why not?

Originally Posted by Brian Beecher

I haven't posted for a while due to a disabling injury which I hope to be recovered from soon, but with gas expected to hit $4/gal this summer, why is society still so apathetic in regards to trying to reduce auto dependency, which would obviously aid the environment a lot? I could say a lot more about this, but since I can only type with my left hand right now, and I am naturally right-handed, I shall let the rest of the board tackle this one for right now, having noticed that so far none of the candidates are talking about this, either. Why not?

I heard something on NPR this morning that may tell the tale. It seems that the candidate handlers all advise their clients to not take positions that are popular but dangerous, because they may have to do the right but unpopular thing later. It's their anti-Read My Lips speech. I suspect this and several other topics that are hard but important will be raised after the conventions ... unless all the journalists are totally dysfunctional.

BTW, what happened and are you OK? PM me if you think it's not appropriate for the forum.

Originally Posted by Brian Beecher

with gas expected to hit $4/gal this summer, why is society still so apathetic in regards to trying to reduce auto dependency, which would obviously aid the environment a lot?

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

I heard something on NPR this morning that may tell the tale. It seems that the candidate handlers all advise their clients to not take positions that are popular but dangerous, because they may have to do the right but unpopular thing later. It's their anti-Read My Lips speech.

In other words, we have not yet reached the Social Moment, the point where the general public finally realizes that the old ways of doing things just won't work any more. But it's coming fast, maybe even this summer.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

I suspect this and several other topics that are hard but important will be raised after the conventions ... unless all the journalists are totally dysfunctional.

Hah. Of course they're totally dysfunctional; they're stenographers not journalists.

Originally Posted by Brian Beecher

I haven't posted for a while due to a disabling injury which I hope to be recovered from soon, but with gas expected to hit $4/gal this summer, why is society still so apathetic in regards to trying to reduce auto dependency, which would obviously aid the environment a lot? I could say a lot more about this, but since I can only type with my left hand right now, and I am naturally right-handed, I shall let the rest of the board tackle this one for right now, having noticed that so far none of the candidates are talking about this, either. Why not?

Petroleum is a gigantic cash cow -- indeed the currency of our time; so long as people have no valid alternatives to automobiles running on gasoline, the oil companies will continue to mine Americans for every last dime earned in good times, including the proceeds from garage sales. Aside from the armaments industry that the Oil Cartel uses as its enforcers, Big Oil will have the only loose money for supporting right-wing politicians who will win political office in return for rendering everyone else destitute by writing the desired laws.

Most politicians are hypocrites; most recognize the need for campaign contributions but don't want to be associated with interests that impoverish the politicians' constituents. Money is everything in America these days, as is typical in a 3T culture falling apart.

Originally Posted by Brian Beecher

I haven't posted for a while due to a disabling injury which I hope to be recovered from soon, but with gas expected to hit $4/gal this summer, why is society still so apathetic in regards to trying to reduce auto dependency, which would obviously aid the environment a lot? I could say a lot more about this, but since I can only type with my left hand right now, and I am naturally right-handed, I shall let the rest of the board tackle this one for right now, having noticed that so far none of the candidates are talking about this, either. Why not?

Same reason we're not doing anything about our dependence on phone service the internet, employment, and our addiction to DiHydrogen Monoxide. Or for that matter, food and clothing.

Sure, it's no top secret. I took a fall at home on March 7, and broke both wrist and ankle. I shall be partially disabled until at least May 2, the date of my next doctor's visit.

To bring things back to global, I would love to hear more opinions on why we don't at least have a dialog on reducing auto dependency, and also about why we don't do more regarding both affordable health care and affodable housing. Does anyone think the latter will be solved by the current foreclosure debacle?