For the third weekend in a row, gas at the neighborhood 76 station is going for $4.359/479/579. Maybe I won't be paying over-5 for my Fourth Of July trip to Sacramento, after all.

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

For the third weekend in a row, gas at the neighborhood 76 station is going for $4.359/479/579. Maybe I won't be paying over-5 for my Fourth Of July trip to Sacramento, after all.

it's still about 20 cents higher here in Santa Cruz, but it's always much higher here than this "national average" thing i keep hearing about. I kinda stopped paying attention (and avoiding this thread)to the rising prices over the last couple months or so out of disgust with this whole thing, but yeah, I've also noticed that prices have remained about the same over the last couple weeks, so i guess I've sorta started paying attention again.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

The oil industry and the auto industry lobbied heavily to drive the railroads into ruin. With inadequate revenues, the railroads could no longer maintain the railroads. Some railroads have fared well, typically in the Southwest where one has megalopolises separated by huge expanses of desert.

Resuscitation of the rails looks like a reasonable response to the reality of the disappearance of cheap petroleum. Such will take huge purchases of steel (great for one ailing industry!) and perhaps concrete (for roadbeds and perhaps overpasses). That sounds like a 4T solution -- something unlikely until about 2010.

The technology for fast trains isn't new; it already exists in Europe. Acela is profitable, and I can imagine corridors (the Far West and the Great Lakes region) where such trains will work. When it's easy to take a train across country and airline fares are prohibitive, then the rails can even get people off the highway.

In the meantime -- intercity buses may be all that is left for the middle class in America for long-distance travel should gasoline hit $7 or so as the Propaganda Channel predicts with apparent glee.

Has anyone noticed that Big Oil advertises more heavily on FoX than seemingly anywhere else? It causes me to wonder how independent the Propaganda Channel is from its advertisers.

Passenger railways in America have declined due to competition from automobiles, motorized coaches and even planes. Apart from the densely populated Northeast which is more like Europe, passenger rail is practically non existent in the United States. Much like in Australia expect for places close enough to the major cities for people to commute there on a daily basis.

Freight rail in Australasia and North America has not done too badly, indeed more freight rail occurs in these places than they occur in other countries, where passenger rail forces trucks to carry stuff trains do in North America.

Originally Posted by Tristan

Passenger railways in America have declined due to competition from automobiles, motorized coaches and even planes. Apart from the densely populated Northeast which is more like Europe, passenger rail is practically non existent in the United States. Much like in Australia expect for places close enough to the major cities for people to commute there on a daily basis.

Freight rail in Australasia and North America has not done too badly, indeed more freight rail occurs in these places than they occur in other countries, where passenger rail forces trucks to carry stuff trains do in North America.

Freight rail is going to grow if the gas prices force truckers out of business.

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

Freight rail is going to grow if the gas prices force truckers out of business.

I would agree with you, I am not sure apart from few places passenger rail is going ever to become competitive with driving and motorized coaches. Motorized coaches usually travel as fast as travel and they flexible which railways aren't.

Medium and long distance railways could become competitive with the airlines, if aviation fuel prices remain high and waiting times at airports remain long as well. An high speed train like the TGV in France averages 320 kilometers an hour compared to 960 kilometers an hour for a commercial airliner.

I predict people will react to high fuel prices by driving smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles, carpooling and driving as little as possible. Mass transit is not competitive with motor vehicles in United States apart from the cores of the big cities. It is much the same story the world over, when motor car dependent suburbs emerge.

http://www.american.com/archive/2008...ply-and-demand

The current soaring oil prices are a result of the shortfall between demand for oil and what is being actually produced, classic supply and demand rules.

Originally Posted by Tristan

http://www.american.com/archive/2008...ply-and-demand

The current soaring oil prices are a result of the shortfall between demand for oil and what is being actually produced, classic supply and demand rules.

Hundreds of billions of dollars created out of thin air in the past several months by the Fed and scattered all over the banking system is also contributing to the commodity surge. Gold has been a notable exception lately but I think that won't last much longer.

Those dollars have to go somewhere and since they weren't created by productivity growth they are simply an addition to the supply of dollars in the global economy and nothing more. More supply without complementary demand means decreased value. So the value of the dollar drops. Oil is valued, by most, in dollars, therefore, the price of oil goes up just to retain value, let alone due to any actual supply and demand dynamic with oil itself. If there actually is any tension in that dynamic as well then, bingo, oil goes through the roof.

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

Freight rail is going to grow if the gas prices force truckers out of business.

Which is why my kid brother is, on July 7, going into training with Union Pacific.

Originally Posted by Tristan

I would agree with you, I am not sure apart from few places passenger rail is going ever to become competitive with driving and motorized coaches. Motorized coaches usually travel as fast as travel and they flexible which railways aren't.

Here in the United States, the bus (which is our term for a motorized coach) has stigma -- it is what the great unwashed masses ride.

Bin Laden and practically all other terrorists have common origins. They are all coordinated from moscow. Bin Laden and Zawahiri are both KGB trained in sabotage operations. The aim of putin and bin laden are both clear; the extermination of the american people, and all other westerners as well as the global annihilation of "Inferior Beings" and "Unconvertibles"

The KGB has longed planned the extermination of the American People as well as all other peaceloving peoples of the world. Litvinenko tried to warn us about the evil plans being hatched in the kremlin. Due to the FSB and assets linked to al-qaeda and Iran, The iranians have assembled over a thousand nukes and bin laden has aquired an arsenal of several hundred nukes at least 150 of whom have been placed in US cities and probably around 100 or more are in place in european cities. The KGB and Al-qaeda intend to detonate them all simultaniously to achieve the mass slaughter in which hundreds of millions of westerners are killed within a space of a few minutes. The sheer scope of their evil gives away their function as the acolytes of satan himself.

We cant vote for any party other than republican because the KGB plans to instigate their plan as soon as a non-neocon adiministration is sworn into of office. If the neocons stay in power to 2020 but are ousted in that election the nukes will detonate accross the world in 2021. If obama is elected this year the nukes would detonate in 2009, or possibly even before the inaugeration. Even alternatives such as for example the neocons are expelled in 2012 in favor of say, libretarian candidate would mean that the nukes are detonated in 2013. Even revolt is out of the question because putin put russian forces on alert on 9/11, clearly hinted that russia will launch a full scale nuclear strike to wipe out the US if it looks like the US government is about to be overthrown.

Communists have systematically infiltrated america's organs of disseminating information to the people. Islamic sites are spreading deliberate disinformation which massively provides underestimates of total islamic population. For example France is at least 30-35% muslim, Kenya is almost entirely muslim, The UK due to infiltration is over 20 percent muslim. However because of commie infiltration encyclopedias and other information source say that only 5 percent of france's people are muslim, 2 percent of the UK, and say that kenya is overwhelmingly christian.

Few westerners due to this brainwashing, understand the communist tactic of deception warfare. This was used first in poland in 1920 in which communists deliberately allowed poland to defeat them in order to detach that nation from britain and france later in 1939-40 they staged a fake war with finland in order to lull germany into thinking the soviet military was incompetent in order to launch operation groza In july 1941 which was preempted by barbarossa by two weeks. Later this strategy was taught to the communists' muslim sidekicks, bin laden largely ignores israel because he knows that israel can be conquered easily with a few hundred casualties suffered at most to the arab forces, the israelis won their was not because of competence but because the arab leaders deliberately ordered their forces to behave incomptently in order to lull the americans into viewing the muslim world as a mere nuisence when in reality their a powerful mortal threat in preparation for their final assault.

Originally Posted by Cynic Hero '86

Bin Laden and practically all other terrorists have common origins. They are all coordinated from moscow. Bin Laden and Zawahiri are both KGB trained in sabotage operations. The aim of putin and bin laden are both clear; the extermination of the american people, and all other westerners as well as the global annihilation of "Inferior Beings" and "Unconvertibles"

The KGB has longed planned the extermination of the American People as well as all other peaceloving peoples of the world. Litvinenko tried to warn us about the evil plans being hatched in the kremlin. Due to the FSB and assets linked to al-qaeda and Iran, The iranians have assembled over a thousand nukes and bin laden has aquired an arsenal of several hundred nukes at least 150 of whom have been placed in US cities and probably around 100 or more are in place in european cities. The KGB and Al-qaeda intend to detonate them all simultaniously to achieve the mass slaughter in which hundreds of millions of westerners are killed within a space of a few minutes. The sheer scope of their evil gives away their function as the acolytes of satan himself.

We cant vote for any party other than republican because the KGB plans to instigate their plan as soon as a non-neocon adiministration is sworn into of office. If the neocons stay in power to 2020 but are ousted in that election the nukes will detonate accross the world in 2021. If obama is elected this year the nukes would detonate in 2009, or possibly even before the inaugeration. Even alternatives such as for example the neocons are expelled in 2012 in favor of say, libretarian candidate would mean that the nukes are detonated in 2013. Even revolt is out of the question because putin put russian forces on alert on 9/11, clearly hinted that russia will launch a full scale nuclear strike to wipe out the US if it looks like the US government is about to be overthrown.

Communists have systematically infiltrated america's organs of disseminating information to the people. Islamic sites are spreading deliberate disinformation which massively provides underestimates of total islamic population. For example France is at least 30-35% muslim, Kenya is almost entirely muslim, The UK due to infiltration is over 20 percent muslim. However because of commie infiltration encyclopedias and other information source say that only 5 percent of france's people are muslim, 2 percent of the UK, and say that kenya is overwhelmingly christian.

Few westerners due to this brainwashing, understand the communist tactic of deception warfare. This was used first in poland in 1920 in which communists deliberately allowed poland to defeat them in order to detach that nation from britain and france later in 1939-40 they staged a fake war with finland in order to lull germany into thinking the soviet military was incompetent in order to launch operation groza In july 1941 which was preempted by barbarossa by two weeks. Later this strategy was taught to the communists' muslim sidekicks, bin laden largely ignores israel because he knows that israel can be conquered easily with a few hundred casualties suffered at most to the arab forces, the israelis won their was not because of competence but because the arab leaders deliberately ordered their forces to behave incomptently in order to lull the americans into viewing the muslim world as a mere nuisence when in reality their a powerful mortal threat in preparation for their final assault.

It's OK dude... they'll be here soon. The Men In The White Coats... they'll be here soon!

Since the 1970's oil prices have gone through a roller coaster which they did not before then. There have been at least three oil crises so far, however I think this current one due to being at the start of a 4T is going to force radical changes in the energy paradigm.

In America being ahead of Europe on the spectrum, public demands are being made to end dependence on a commodity which could be running out or at the very least subject to wild swings in the price and not to mention a major cause of greenhouse emissions.

People in Europe and Australasia on the other hand are just complaining about how high taxes on petrol and diesel are.

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

It's OK dude... they'll be here soon. The Men In The White Coats... they'll be here soon!

Talk about delusional (cynic Nero '86) -- the poor sap can't even separate past, present, and future. I think he's the sort who would have shouted "The Redcoats are coming!" upon hearing of the Confederate attack on Fort Sumter.

He's on my iggy list for that reason.

Originally Posted by Tristan

Since the 1970's oil prices have gone through a roller coaster which they did not before then. There have been at least three oil crises so far, however I think this current one due to being at the start of a 4T is going to force radical changes in the energy paradigm.

In America being ahead of Europe on the spectrum, public demands are being made to end dependence on a commodity which could be running out or at the very least subject to wild swings in the price and not to mention a major cause of greenhouse emissions.

People in Europe and Australasia on the other hand are just complaining about how high taxes on petrol and diesel are.

Importers are always at the mercy of exporters who need never heed anything analogous to the Sherman Anti-Trust Act (not that if is in much use these days in America, where monopolistic practices have the sympathy of George W. Bush.

We must find ways in which to cut back on oil imports without reverting to the social conditions of the early-industrial era in which 72-hour workweeks, no running water, and child labor were the norm... only with a much larger population than then so that hunger can be added as a threat.

It now seems as if the US public is finally adjusting to high gas prices and now believes that we are at a turning point where we will not ever return to the days of cheap energy. Up until now we have pretty much refused to reduce driving and consider any kind of mass transit or alternative arrangement, even consolidation of errands. All this seems to have changed now.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/how-oil-will-collapse/

It has done so before, especially with the minimal fuel savings from hybrid vehicles, it would have to take an economic collapse to deflate oil prices.

Although solar and wind energy have come a long way in the last decade, if batteries which much more before storage capacities were developed. Wind and especially solar would take off.

Originally Posted by Brian Beecher

It now seems as if the US public is finally adjusting to high gas prices and now believes that we are at a turning point where we will not ever return to the days of cheap energy. Up until now we have pretty much refused to reduce driving and consider any kind of mass transit or alternative arrangement, even consolidation of errands. All this seems to have changed now.

I would say they are right, all the cheap to drill oil has already been discovered and exploited, look at the North Sea or the Fields of Saudi Arabia, production is declining every year. The 'new' sources of oil are much more expensive to produce.

Forget about oil prices going back to the historic average $20 a barrel.

I think that we are more likely headed back to the 60-hour workweek, 45-year lifespans for those who do the work, children back in the work force, and all-in-all, the sort of economic relationships that Karl Marx saw in capitalism in his time.

We have committed ourselves to petroleum as no other advanced industrial country has, especially by voting for George W. Bush... and we are are beginning to pay. The high energy costs will even devour the capital necessary for investment in alternatives, including nuclear energy, wind power, solar panels, and revived rails.

Solution:

Tax the Hell out of motor fuels and dedicate the tax revenue to alternative transportation before it's too late. $10-a-gallon gasoline today is far better than peonage and serfdom for our grandchildren.

Originally Posted by Tristan

I would say they are right, all the cheap to drill oil has already been discovered and exploited, look at the North Sea or the Fields of Saudi Arabia, production is declining every year. The 'new' sources of oil are much more expensive to produce.

Forget about oil prices going back to the historic average $20 a barrel.

What if the oil fields of Iraq are opened up? Aha! We still have plenty; let's continue the spending spree!.

Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59

For the third weekend in a row, gas at the neighborhood 76 station is going for $4.359/479/579. Maybe I won't be paying over-5 for my Fourth Of July trip to Sacramento, after all.

I paid under $4.00 a gallon in Hackettstown, New Jersey, 40 miles west of NYC off of I-80. $3.92 to be exact.

Gas in my neck of the woods is now running about $4.15 a gallon. I noticed much lighter traffic on July 6th heading back from NJ to VA than I expected; it only took 4 1/2 hours to get home, including two short stops.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

I think that we are more likely headed back to the 60-hour workweek, 45-year lifespans for those who do the work, children back in the work force, and all-in-all, the sort of economic relationships that Karl Marx saw in capitalism in his time.

That's how thing would be if the trends of the 3T continued uninterrupted, but we know that linear trends don't always continue.

cool video.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVv597m848s

Originally Posted by Skabungus

cool video.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVv597m848s

There's much easier ways to cut grass... livestock for example

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

I paid under $4.00 a gallon in Hackettstown, New Jersey, 40 miles west of NYC off of I-80. $3.92 to be exact.

Gas in my neck of the woods is now running about $4.15 a gallon. I noticed much lighter traffic on July 6th heading back from NJ to VA than I expected; it only took 4 1/2 hours to get home, including two short stops.

Heh-heh. On my way home from Sacramento, in Weed CA, I paid the most I've ever spent on a gallon of gas... $4.879 per gallon.

On the other hand, when I returned to Vancouver, I found that regular gas at my neighborhood station had... DROPPED! To $4.299 per gallon, about eight cents less than it had been for the previous three weeks. So maybe the price of petrol is stabilizing... for the moment.

Those who think I am making thing up by warning of the plans of the evil commies conquer the world and cleanse it of "lesser peoples" Should take into account that history is not linear, indeed the commies are deliberately fostering the linear worldview in order to lull the peaceloving peoples of the world into complacency in preparation for russia's plans of population reduction of westerners as well as dark-skinned peoples. THOSE WHO DENY, I will now provide links that dissolve all notions that what I don't know what I am talking about, indeed I know what I am talking about and those who laugh who are not understanding the situation. These links should clarify the point I am trying to get across when I talk of commies and islamists.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed137.html

http://www.skeptics.org.uk/article.p...y_theories.php