Originally Posted by MichaelEaston

Originally Posted by jeffw

Originally Posted by MichaelEaston

Looks like no one has an answer for me.

Oh well, you can hijack my topic now!

Well, for one thing your question presupposes that WWI was a crisis war for Russia and everyone may not agree with that. I know a long time ago there was a discussion about how Russia fit into S&H theory, why don't you search through the old threads.

All nations fit with the theory.

Are you talking about S&H's theory or Xenakis'?

Originally Posted by jeffw

Originally Posted by MichaelEaston

Originally Posted by jeffw

Originally Posted by MichaelEaston

Looks like no one has an answer for me.

Oh well, you can hijack my topic now!

Well, for one thing your question presupposes that WWI was a crisis war for Russia and everyone may not agree with that. I know a long time ago there was a discussion about how Russia fit into S&H theory, why don't you search through the old threads.

All nations fit with the theory.

Are you talking about S&H's theory or Xenakis'?

They are the same for what I am talking about. You have four generational archetypes and four "seasons".

Although, Strauss and Howe don't think so. Did anyone else scratch their heads when they read that the theory can only be applied to English speaking peoples who live in a free and democratic society? It makes no sense whatsoever. I wonder what scared them off since they obviously couldn't have just assumed that was the case.

Originally Posted by MichaelEaston

...

They are the same for what I am talking about. You have four generational archetypes and four "seasons".

Although, Strauss and Howe don't think so. Did anyone else scratch their heads when they read that the theory can only be applied to English speaking peoples who live in a free and democratic society? It makes no sense whatsoever. I wonder what scared them off since they obviously couldn't have just assumed that was the case.

I am not troubled by this application of a proposition, as it is the one most investigated up to this time. It may work outside the Anglo-sphere and it may work outside the West. I think something may be of worth even if it is not a universalist theory.

- - -

Originally Posted by MichaelEaston

Originally Posted by jeffw

Originally Posted by MichaelEaston

Originally Posted by jeffw

Originally Posted by MichaelEaston

Looks like no one has an answer for me.

Oh well, you can hijack my topic now!

Well, for one thing your question presupposes that WWI was a crisis war for Russia and everyone may not agree with that. I know a long time ago there was a discussion about how Russia fit into S&H theory, why don't you search through the old threads.

All nations fit with the theory.

Are you talking about S&H's theory or Xenakis'?

They are the same for what I am talking about. You have four generational archetypes and four "seasons".

Xenakis never discusses "seasons", or at least gives the concept very little emphasis. And his theory is effectively NOT S&H's theory. His is a glorified War Cycle theory that resembles S&H's.

Originally Posted by MichaelEaston

Although, Strauss and Howe don't think so. Did anyone else scratch their heads when they read that the theory can only be applied to English speaking peoples who live in a free and democratic society? It makes no sense whatsoever. I wonder what scared them off since they obviously couldn't have just assumed that was the case.

What makes you think S&H believe the saeculum only applies to the Anglosphere?!? They never said any such thing. What they DID say is that they strongly suspect that the saeculum is more strongly emphasized in the Anglosphere, and especially in America, because of our emphasis on linear thinking, as opposed to more traditional cyclical thinking.

Now one may argue with that, but to say they confined the saeculum to our society is just plain wrong.

Indeed, in their writings S&H mention the saeculum operating in a range of other societies including Europe, Japan, Vietnam, Iran, and more. S&H weren't "scared off" by anything.

The History Of Nations

Russia

Derek C. Maus, Book Editor

The "Time of Troubles" and the Rise of the Romanovs by Hans-Joachim Torke

"The age of transformation began with an acute crisis-the 'Time of Troubles' (smutnoe vremia). This protracted crisis inaugerated a new period in Russian history, marked by fundamental changes that would culminate in the passing of 'Old Russia' and the onset of new 'troubles' in the 1680s. Perhaps the best schema for the Time of Troubles , devised over a century ago by the historian Sergei Platanov, divides this period into successive 'dynastic', 'social', and 'national' phases that followed upon one another but, to a significant degree, had some overlap."