I'm still skeptical of Bush. Sure, he knows how to fight war, but I am VERY skeptical of his ability to handle foreign polocy, environmental issues, and other issues that are important to the nation besides terrorism.

On 2001-10-04 16:17, Brian Rush wrote:
There is now a possibility -- far from a certainty, but a possibility nonetheless -- that I may vote for George W. Bush in 2004.

I've changed my mind. This Crisis will not be about terrorism, or total war with a coalition of Islamic states, or an economic collapse. This post proves it will be an environmental disaster, causing earthquakes, floods, and famine, and will certainly throw the saeculum out of wack for thousands of years. We're all doomed!

:wink:

Actually, Chris, it's all of those except maybe the earthquakes.


(But I still don't think we're doomed. Call me a starry-eyed optimist.)

Mr. Rush posits, "Here's something that, while not large-scale or earthshaking, is still quite strong evidence that we're in a Fourth Turning.

There is now a possibility -- far from a certainty, but a possibility nonetheless -- that I may vote for George W. Bush in 2004"

Whoahhh? Or, perhaps, "See, I told you so"?

Consider what I wrote a little while back in the Politics & Economics forum: A Saeculum for the New Left"

"If nothing else, the New Left are fear and crisis mongers. They have to be. How else to justify the need to always be raising taxes and never cutting taxes. And that means always creating a problem, thus a reason to increase the size and scope for the "expansion of government" that Mr. Rush and the New Left loves so well.

Just as Mr. Rush says, "Every expansion of government has been demanded to meet a particular need that did not exist before."

Walla, government, according to history, and the religion of the New Left must keep expanding. Except, of course, in the constitutional role of the "Power To Raise and Maintain Armed Forces," that protect our freedom and liberty in this country.

So when the shoot out between libertarian Mencken and FDR ends guess what?

It's The Second Coming for the New Left!

And they just can't wait! Our Gray Champion is coming, coming to set us free from evil libertarians. And he will come with all great power and glory so we, the anointed ones can claim our rightful inheritence born in the Great Awakening.

So the sooner the Crisis arrives, the sooner the Gray Champion arrives to empower "the wisdom of a thousand quacks. For theirs is the kingdom."




To read the whole story, click on:
http://www.fourthturning.com/forums/...221&forum=10&2

On 2001-10-04 18:30, Marc Lamb wrote:

Walla, government,....

did you mean to say (and by "say" i mean "type") "Walla Walla government", in reference to the government of a southeastern washington town, or did you mean "Voila", as in "there it is"? :smile:


TK

In response to the terrorist attack, Bush has abandoned his former isolationist stance and become an internationalist, and he has approached the war with a compassion, wisdom, and restraint I would never have expected of him.

Mr. Bush was never an isolationist. The soldiers were never brought home from even the dubious Kosovo limes. The base all belong to us even yet the world 'round. He was a unilateral (while <s>lying to the public</s> er, campaigning) interventionist and is now a multi-lateral Interventionist.


This is usually decribed by the Progressive Orders as growth (sic). HTH

Marc, I told you before that everything you posted on that thread was drivel and I wouldn't dignify it with a response.


It still is, and I still won't.

Trollking wonders, "did you mean to say (and by "say" i mean "type") "Walla Walla government", in reference to the government of a southeastern washington town, or did you mean "Voila", as in "there it is"? "

Well, there is a Walla Walla in Washington. State, that is. Not as in D.C.

I once was aquainted with an extreme lefty from Walla Walla back in the seventies. So perhaps, it just seemed to stick.

With me, anyway.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot my emote! :lol: :lol: :lol:






<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Marc Lamb on 2001-10-04 19:21 ]</font>

Yeah, well, I'm not going to vote for Bush, and nothing he does or anybody says will change that.

I am a bit curious, Mr. Elmslie, what is about "silver-spoon in the mouth" George "Dubya" Bush, that has got you so fit-to-be-so unDubya?

Just Boomers in gen-er-Al, or what?

On 2001-10-04 19:37, Matthew Elmslie wrote:
Yeah, well, I'm not going to vote for Bush, and nothing he does or anybody says will change that.

ROFL! :lol:

That's OK, I'll never vote for Cretien, either. Ah, the wonders of the parliamentary system! :wink: However, I might consider moving into Harris' riding just so I can vote against him.

On 2001-10-04 20:11, Marc Lamb wrote:
I am a bit curious, Mr. Elmslie, what is about "silver-spoon in the mouth" George "Dubya" Bush, that has got you so fit-to-be-so unDubya?

Just Boomers in gen-er-Al, or what?

Marc, Matthew's Canadian! Now get your foot out of your mouth!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Vince Lamb '59 on 2001-10-04 20:23 ]</font>

And lo! In the early days of the reign of Bush, wise and noble ruler of the kingdom of the Americans, a great light came upon the former unbeliever Brian Rush, who wrote: :smile:

On 2001-10-04 16:17, Brian Rush wrote:
Here's something that, while not large-scale or earthshaking, is still quite strong evidence that we're in a Fourth Turning.


There is now a possibility -- far from a certainty, but a possibility nonetheless -- that I may vote for George W. Bush in 2004.


We have been struck with the first stages of two of the three Crisis issues now. In response to the terrorist attack, Bush has abandoned his former isolationist stance and become an internationalist, and he has approached the war with a compassion, wisdom, and restraint I would never have expected of him. Score one.


In response to the recession, he has resisted the urge to respond in knee-jerk Republican fashion and instead called for a stimulus package that includes substantial increases in aid to the unemployed. Score two.


Both these actions show that he is capable of thinking outside the box. I am very pleasantly surprised.


What would clinch it for me? A response to resource shortages that abandons his oil-company ties and seeks fossil-fuel independence. If he does that, he's got my vote.


The fact that I am even considering a vote for that man shows that something very fundamental has changed.

(No offense intended by the top line, Brian, I was referring to your politics, not your religious beliefs. I just couldn't resist! I'm so tired tonight that I'm half-goofy!)

Seriously, you're going through something some of us on the Right went through during E2K. George W. Bush has a way of upsetting expectations when you least expect it. I was not a fan of his when I first heard he was running, because I thought he was sailing through on his father's name, and I heard a lot of other Red Zoners say similar things.

Bush positively thrives on people's low expectations of him.

By the way, you're going to find that for the most part, the things he's suggesting aren't all that bothersome to the Red Zoners, either. We're not inherently isolationist. Instead, what we rejected was the particular version of internationalism that was the accepted wisdom in Washington and the general media.

Likewise, in an emergency situation, we don't object to government activity to head off economic disaster. Our main concern is to keep necessary emergency measures from becoming institutionalized in such a way that they become a permanent honey-pot of money after the need passes.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HopefulCynic68 on 2001-10-04 22:02 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HopefulCynic68 on 2001-10-04 22:04 ]</font>

Are we in the forth turning? I think so. When many more americans are thinking that an abotion is to be done with a coat hanger.
When the government is retuning to a macartheism period. That an anti terrorism bill will include those that speak out against the government will be agents of terror against the gov and be imprissoned. When freedom of speach will be limited to an extent. I think the fourth turning came about 10 to 15 years(due to the acts of terrorism against our country) early but nothing is perfect. The fourth turning is happening now!
--------
vaporizer reviews

I forgot to add "make no mistake" we are in the fourth turning!

Shoulda checked his "profile," eh? Thanks for the heads up, Dr. Lamb, as always. :smile:

Dr. Lamb wrote, "Marc, Matthew's Canadian! Now get your foot out of your mouth!"

On 2001-10-04 22:07, choselh wrote:
BUT ... I heard a bunch of senators today complaining about each other again. Also heard people talking about which "Friend" is pregnant (ugh.) So I'm not sure we can kiss 3T completely goodbye just yet.

Yes, things will be/are different in a 4T, but I don't think either human nature or the need for an occasional diversion is going to end anytime soon. If I remember correctly, during the Depression and WWII, movie going was a huge pasttime, and the frothier the movie, the better.

On 2001-10-05 06:12, Marc Lamb wrote:
Shoulda checked his "profile," eh? Thanks for the heads up, Dr. Lamb, as always. :smile:

Dr. Lamb wrote, "Marc, Matthew's Canadian! Now get your foot out of your mouth!"

Marc, you didn't need to check Mr. Elmslie's profile. On the message, where it says who posted it and then under, where the poster is from, it says "Toronto".

Another 4T tidbit I heard on the news last week.

It was announced that results of a Washington Post poll had 65% of respondants saying they trusted to U.S. Government to do the right thing all or most of the time. Results not seen since the early 1960's.

Thanks, mom. :smile:

Ahh, I was wondering if I'd catch anyone on that one.

It strikes me that nobody should be deciding anything about Bush right now. All the things we know about his background or personality - how can that compare to what we're going to learn about what he's made of as he deals with this maybe-Crisis over the next three years?

It strikes me that nobody should be deciding anything about Bush right now.

Right, Matthew, but the fact that I agree with this statement -- as opposed to deciding firmly and unshakeably in the negative -- is what's so amazing.

Where is..... and what ever happened to.. Dick Cheney? Is it evidence of a 4T that Cheney can just disappear and nobody mentions it? It feels like more of The Unraveling.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: cbailey on 2001-10-05 14:53 ]</font>

On 2001-10-04 18:14, Brian Rush wrote:
Actually, Chris, it's all of those except maybe the earthquakes.


(But I still don't think we're doomed. Call me a starry-eyed optimist.)

Well, if you want to be technical, there is some inconclusive evidence that large reservoirs can locally influence earthquake activity. So if you hate big dams, then maybe you can blame them for any particular local earthquakes! :smile:

Anecdotal evidence, make of it what you will:

I was sitting in a restaurant, earlier this evening, and I overheard a young woman, probably 20 years old plus or minus two, and she was joking with her table mates that she'd join up with Osama bin Laden if he'd pay her tuition.

Now, I know she was joking, it was clear, but even so, that's a very 3T sort of remark, and her table-mates didn't seem offended or bothered.

As I said, purely anecdotal.