Even the tech industry appears to be entering 4T. :wink:

http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?...57&mode=thread

For those of you who wonder, Richard Stallman is a Boomer, born in 1953. In fact, he is an epitome of prophets.
_________________
Robert Reed III (1982)
---------------------------------------------
"Life is not a cancer of matter; it is matter's transcendence of itself." - John S. Lewis
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Einstein

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: madscientist on 2001-10-11 21:54 ]</font>

On 2001-10-11 09:27, choselh wrote:


We were also taught that there were RULES for the American flag, which nobody seems to remember these days. Like don't fly it at night, don't fly it in the rain, fold it a certain way when you take it down (into a triangle.) Also, never throw it away when it gets old, because that is disrespectful. You have to BURN it instead. Last time I thought about that was when they were talking about that flag burning amendment. Does anyone else remember that stuff? I see so many flags these days tattered and flying in the rain.

An oddity: a man I know, who is VERY patriotic, and was all through the 2T and 3T, flies the flag at his house. He has for years now.

However, out of all the flag-rules (he knows about them and obeys all but one), the rain rule doesn't bother him, and he's not alone. I don't know why that one doesn't seem to have any hold any more, though.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HopefulCynic68 on 2001-10-11 22:12 ]</font>

On 2001-10-10 21:55, Marc Lamb wrote:
While I understand this is very "3T" of me, ya just gotta love this little gem... from "la la land."



:lol: :lol: :lol:

I just don't get it! What IS it with that place? Ever since I was a young child, the very name Berkeley has been a synonym for blathering nonsense, and it's holding true to its reputation!

I once heard someone joke that the only reason Berkeley doesn't go further to the Left is that if it did it would fall into the Pacific.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HopefulCynic68 on 2001-10-11 22:20 ]</font>

To my fellow posters on this thread:

Please understandably indulge me while I attempt to wrestle with my inner struggle between:

1) wanting to rip Chris a new rear orifice for his overboard insults toward me, and

2)wanting to worry about his state of mind and his hurt feelings, did he have a horrible no good terrible bad day, (being the uncaring, unworthy former teacher that I am accused of, how fitting I'd worry about someone who just verbally slapped me in the face!), and

3)wanting to flippantly advise him to get that corncob problem taken care of, and

4) yawn, laugh incredulously and say Whatever, Chris, you obviously can't handle a little experienced smalltalk about the nature of children in general without taking pointed and over-sensitive offense that it was somehow meant for you.

But I do know one thing I'm not doing. I'm not apologizing, as angeli has said, for hurding your widdle biddey feewings or somehow causing or being incorrectly identified in your diatribe. You need to calm down, Chris. This coming crisis will eat you up if you don't. And don't make me or anyone else who was enjoying the conversation with me your scapegoat either. You crossed the line, son. That wasn't healthy and vigorous discourse.

Evidence we may be in a 4T: this abyss.

I now return you all to your regularly scheduled postings....


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Barbara on 2001-10-11 23:54 ]</font>

On 2001-10-11 23:52, Barbara wrote:

Please understandably indulge me while I attempt to wrestle with my inner struggle between:

1) wanting to rip Chris a new rear orifice for his overboard insults toward me, and

2)wanting to worry about his state of mind and his hurt feelings, did he have a horrible no good terrible bad day, (being the uncaring, unworthy former teacher that I am accused of, how fitting I'd worry about someone who just verbally slapped me in the face!), and

3)wanting to flippantly advise him to get that corncob problem taken care of, and

4) yawn, laugh incredulously and say Whatever, Chris, you obviously can't handle a little experienced smalltalk about the nature of children in general without taking pointed and over-sensitive offense that it was somehow meant for you.

barbara, i'd venture to say that what you're wrestling with are, in the same order you listed them, your inner....

1) hero,
2) artist,
3) prophet, and
4) nomad

ok, i'm reaching.

:wink:


TK


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TrollKing on 2001-10-11 23:59 ]</font>

My favorite quote from the article posted about Berkeley is this:

"Berkeley has always been an island of sanity in terms of the war madness that has prevailed in this country," Spring said. "The U.S. is now a terrorist. According to the Taliban these are terrorist attacks."

Good old Berkeley, my alma mater. The streets filled with relics in flowing robes and their naive young disciples without a cause, all of whom are ready to stop, chant, and "eductate" you at the slightest chance.

It has long been my observation that a mob can never be right.

Evidence of a 4T, and a direct confirmation of Bill and Neil's predictions:

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/2001...ongress_4.html

Good one, TrollKing. Geez, in order, too, eh? :grin: :grin:

On 2001-10-11 23:58, TrollKing wrote:

barbara, i'd venture to say that what you're wrestling with are, in the same order you listed them, your inner....

1) hero,
2) artist,
3) prophet, and
4) nomad

ok, i'm reaching.

:wink:


TK

Top Stories - Associated Press - updated 6:52 AM ET Oct 12

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Senate voted Thursday to give police broad new wiretapping authority and other tools to pursue suspected terrorists and to increase and federalize security on airliners and at airports

"Evidence of a 4T, and a direct confirmation of Bill and Neil's predictions:" - Rich Tauchar (1960 cohort)



Is the 911 Attack Triggering A Fourth Turning? --Neil Howe and William Strauss
Posted: 2001-09-13 16:27

Quote:
"It spawned the notorioius Palmer raids, which in turn may have led to the famous Wall Street bombing of 1920 that killed 20 people. But what did the Red Scare itself trigger? An isolationist reaction, a fervor to shut out the world, a demand to punish as many perpetrators as we could catch and to round up and send the rest "back where they came from." Above all, it triggered a desire to avoid the larger problem--social, economic, political--underlying the violence. We wanted "normalcy." In short, America moved more deeply into a Third Turning, not yet into a Fourth."


The key in all this is what becomes of our desire to follow our "inner" isolationist urgings.

Another 3T vs. 4T indicator: I've noticed how "evil" is now used to describe "America's enemies", rather than "Big Tobacco".

On 2001-10-12 00:35, richt wrote:


Good old Berkeley, my alma mater. The streets filled with relics in flowing robes and their naive young disciples without a cause, all of whom are ready to stop, chant, and "eductate" you at the slightest chance.

It has long been my observation that a mob can never be right.

Mr. Tauchar, does UC have a ROTC on campus? Does Harvard? Wisconsin? Is this War on Terror only for the likes of Texas A&M and Ole Miss? The 4T will have even the indulgent elites lending a hand as they did by WII...it will be awhile yet.

Early on in the Last Crisis, we had views like this floating around. December 7 changed that; has 911 done the same to the same extent? I still see questioning of the wisdom of interventionism and even the Secretary of State has deemed some limits as wise. Total devotion comes later on or dissolves. HTH

A word of caution:

Those held hostage to Usama bin Laden (ie., Ms. Angeli et al) should not go near Best Of Berkeley Bulletin Boards


Too much fun. :grin:

Just so you all get it, this is the little gem pic of which draws such laughter from "la la land."

:lol:




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Marc Lamb on 2001-10-12 08:35 ]</font>

ML-

The cheese of American 3T culture was made oh so finer by such fine fungus. But now it's just annoying.

On similar note, check out

http://www.theonion.com/onion3735/a_...ed_nation.html

It's a pretty good laugh ay?

On 2001-10-12 08:16, Marc Lamb wrote:

Those held hostage to Usama bin Laden (ie., Ms. Angeli et al)

how is angeli "held hostage to Usama bin Laden"? i must of missed it.

and isn't it "Osama"?


TK

I've seen the name of Mr. "Evil One" spelled both ways.

I erred in writing "Those held hostage to Usama bin Laden..."

I should have said "Those held hostage by America..."

Ms. Angeli takes offence at my desire to laugh in the face of mine enemy
starting here and continuing for many days, nights, and pages ad nauseam.

Update from People's Park:

Councilwoman, Spring, seeks to clarify her stand for/against/for/against/with us/not with us, ummm position on all things "bombing" the Taliban.

Comment from the "blue zone":
Notice no quote from the news story is in her release.

Notice the nice, smiling, happy, "Hillary-like" picture rebuttal?

Great quote from the actual story:

"Tourists come to Berkeley because of all the attention the bastion of liberalism generates," Worthington said.

Now that's a mouthful! :lol: :lol: :lol:

On 2001-10-12 07:30, Virgil K. Saari wrote:

On 2001-10-12 00:35, richt wrote:


Good old Berkeley, my alma mater. The streets filled with relics in flowing robes and their naive young disciples without a cause, all of whom are ready to stop, chant, and "eductate" you at the slightest chance.

It has long been my observation that a mob can never be right.

Mr. Tauchar, does UC have a ROTC on campus? Does Harvard? Wisconsin? Is this War on Terror only for the likes of Texas A&M and Ole Miss? The 4T will have even the indulgent elites lending a hand as they did by WII...it will be awhile yet.

Sorry, I can't quite figure out how the question relates to my quote. I also have no idea if UCB has the ROTC on campus. I never go there.

On 2001-10-12 14:07, richt wrote:

On 2001-10-12 07:30, Virgil K. Saari wrote:

On 2001-10-12 00:35, richt wrote:


Good old Berkeley, my alma mater. The streets filled with relics in flowing robes and their naive young disciples without a cause, all of whom are ready to stop, chant, and "eductate" you at the slightest chance.

It has long been my observation that a mob can never be right.

Mr. Tauchar, does UC have a ROTC on campus? Does Harvard? Wisconsin? Is this War on Terror only for the likes of Texas A&M and Ole Miss? The 4T will have even the indulgent elites lending a hand as they did by WII...it will be awhile yet.

Sorry, I can't quite figure out how the question relates to my quote. I also have no idea if UCB has the ROTC on campus. I never go there.

Actually, I heard a story this week (might have been on NPR) that Harvard was considering reinstating ROTC on campus.

Kiff '61

Another dispatch from the Blue Zone. In this case, a Great Harvest bakery in Alexandria, Virginia, a place I frequent on Friday afternoon to pick up my weekly Shabbat Challah bread.

Great Harvest is one of those hippy-dippy bakeries that makes wonderful whole wheat breads (as well as white and of course, Challah), and has that old sixties-seventies Awakening feel to it. The staff are young and look very Green.

Today, I saw a sign in the door saying that for a donation to the Pentagon survivors fund(!), you could get a free "red, white, and blue" loaf of bread (white bread with dried blue berries and cherries, a popular item during July 4th). During the Awakening, a store like that would have never supported anything having to do with the Pentagon!

On 2001-10-12 17:49, Jenny Genser wrote:
Another dispatch from the Blue Zone. In this case, a Great Harvest bakery in Alexandria, Virginia, a place I frequent on Friday afternoon to pick up my weekly Shabbat Challah bread.

Great Harvest is one of those hippy-dippy bakeries that makes wonderful whole wheat breads (as well as white and of course, Challah), and has that old sixties-seventies Awakening feel to it. The staff are young and look very Green.

Today, I saw a sign in the door saying that for a donation to the Pentagon survivors fund(!), you could get a free "red, white, and blue" loaf of bread (white bread with dried blue berries and cherries, a popular item during July 4th). During the Awakening, a store like that would have never supported anything having to do with the Pentagon!

At the rate things are going, we'll soon have hippies doing TV ads for Dow Chemical.

On 2001-10-13 07:15, choselh wrote:
Also, do we have to engage in personal attacks on this board? This isn't a school playground, where we take sides and beat each other up to determine who is right.

I don't think I've ever understood this concept, especially in the context of political campaigns, where pundits complain that "personal attacks" are unfair - yet they scratch their heads trying to figure out why they're so effective.

In a war, no weapon is out of bounds if it gets the job done without excessive blowback. The concept is just as valid if the battle is one of rhetoric as it is with a military campaign. For example, I disagreed with the blue zone portrayal of Dubya as a stuttering idiot because I didn't think he was, but it was the best weapon they had against him and their failure to use it effectively is why President Gore isn't the commander-in-chief right now.

As for "this board"... I recently said a few things that were regarded as insulting, and they were meant to be. To quote a famous television show, I "reasoned that it was time for an emotional outburst". I thought it important that people who were passing flippant remarks that they regarded as truisms be reminded others might not see things the same way - that others might actually be insulted by these supposed truisms and find them threatening. To drive the point home, ensuring a reply that would confirm that I'd been heard, I went "overboard". In my mind, I received a very satisfactory response, which effectively illustrated why I am a reactive nomad archetype and my antagonist is - and ought to be - Silent.

Choselh, alas, I don't think this had much to do with who or what was right or wrong... :wink:

Well, Chris, I'm glad I chose restraint, and my reply to you was restrained compared to what I wanted to reply, since you now admit what I sensed, that you did go overboard on purpose to provoke a reply. I rather admire you for admitting it. And you do have a talent for it. Are you really proud of it, though?

Let's see what continues to be loaded into these words of yours, to wit: In my mind, I received a very satisfactory response, which effectively illustrated why I am a reactive nomad archetype and my antagonist is - and ought to be - Silent.

Do you mean, Chris, that my generation should be silent, or do you mean you think that our two gens are meant to adversarial opponents (ie, antagonist)? Or, do you just enjoy giving a good tweak and members of my generation are very good victims, as my '65 son is fond of reminding me?

Oh, well, it's all rhetorical anyway. Your overboard attack won't shut me up, and I have a sneaking suspicion that I will continue to post words that, to you, are "flippant", "insulting", and/or "threatening" (although, this last adjective of yours catches even me by surprise - you seem to be threatened quite easily, IMO).

Further, although members of other generations were engaged in the same flippancy (your take), you chose only me to attack. If you are indeed looking for an antagonizer, then I, apparently and unwillingly, am your choice.

But, neither Chris nor his generation are going to be my antagonist, chosehl. If anyone insults my years of service as an educator, I'll fight back in a New York second, just like anyone else would. (I put in my years of damn good service and I had no say whatsoever what societal or cultural times those years fell into.) Being an Adaptive gen doesn't mean I have to remain "Silent" in the face of overboard attack. And I'll continue to say what I think, and speak my mind, and I think I have proven on this board that I can work together to solve our problems just as well as anyone else here. IOW, to me, this attack came out of nowhere, and any difference of opinion could have been addressed in a much more civil manner and I'd have been very gracious in feeling someone else's pain if it had been communicated as such.

I keep a bright outlook that Chris and I will see better, more communicative times. Every day is a new day, in my book. But, the blood of overboard attacks, if he chooses to continue in same vein, are on his hands, not mine.

Besides, chosehl, if Life is a schoolyard, then everything we ever wanted to know we learned in kindergarten, right? :grin: But I do appreciate and share your concern. Every day is a new day, we shall see.






<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Barbara on 2001-10-13 13:02 ]</font>

On 2001-10-13 10:03, Chris '68 wrote:
As for "this board"... I recently said a few things that were regarded as insulting, and they were meant to be.

ok, well, then to play by your game, let me simply say:

blow it out your ass.


TK

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TrollKing on 2001-10-13 13:12 ]</font>