HOUSE GOP BALKS at FEDERALIZING AIRPORT SCREENERS



HOUSE TAX BILL IS a PERVERSE SIGN OF BUSINESS as USUAL:
"Even Secretary Paul O'neill, in a burst of admirable candor, characterized the House package as "show business."



Isn't this still 3T?

But then........
BUSH ORDERS TIGHTENING OF VISA CONTROLS

VIRGINIA MINUTE of SILENCE TO REMAIN INTACT for NOW


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: cbailey on 2001-10-30 12:27 ]</font>

Culture warriors take note:

http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html

Evidence of 4T?

Kiff '61

On 2001-10-30 10:09, TrollKing wrote:

On 2001-10-30 07:54, Virgil K. Saari wrote:
HTH

virgil, since you seem to use the "HTH" thingy a whole bunch, do you sincerely hope that almost every one of your posts "helps"? or do you have some other reason for the overkill?


TK

Yes, I sincerely hope that almost everyone of my posts helps. HTH

On 2001-10-30 14:55, Virgil K. Saari wrote:

Yes, I sincerely hope that almost everyone of my posts helps. HTH

heh heh. ok, that's admirable enough. i thought maybe you were just being condescending. but i guess that says more about me than about you.


TK

On vote.com, they put up a vote about whether you'd like to implement a national ID card system, you know, where everyone has to carry along the tag, and 74% of the voters were against it. (For the record, I voted No on the ID's.)

On 2001-10-30 13:00, Kiff '61 wrote:
Culture warriors take note:

http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html

Evidence of 4T?

Kiff '61

Possibly, but not conclusive. Bush was looking for ways to cut into the Blue Zone ramparts even before 911. The attack probably makes it politically easier.

On 2001-10-30 19:59, HopefulCynic68 wrote:

On 2001-10-30 13:00, Kiff '61 wrote:
Culture warriors take note:

http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html

Evidence of 4T?

Kiff '61

Possibly, but not conclusive. Bush was looking for ways to cut into the Blue Zone ramparts even before 911. The attack probably makes it politically easier.

Well, hell. It doesn't bode well for a romantic version of 4T when one realizes that, in the same moments that decisions and strategies are made about how to find our terror-ized lost, bury our dead, secure our country, pursue the evil-doers, and stop the anthrax, there are also decisions and strategies being made how to get back at or counter Clinton-stealing-GOP-agendas, regain and improve political party share, vaporize the surplus, and re-distribute it through corporate tax breaks, etc.

Surely this isn't while-we're-at-it politics as usual? (yes, and audacious at that) I guess we can never escape it, but Americans are dying in possibly greater numbers over here than there, and it really seems unseemly for the Republican House to throw corporations a retroactive alternative minimum tax repeal bone to the tune of an estimated $12 billion loss in revenue next year alone. Here I am groping for a rationalization: I'd feel somewhat better if I knew that in exchange for this free tax mega-ride, corporations pledged in return not to lay off anyone, no matter what, but we all know that is wishful thinking.

And then there is US Rep Archer's holding up the House legislation to federalize airport security workers, whining that if they allowed the legislation to go through, it would "guarantee millions of new union votes
for the Democratic Party."

I admit I could better live with Senate Republicans' take of arguing that federalization creates more gov't employees that can "never be fired."

Or, perhaps we should thank Mr. Archer for just being honest?

And now the unraveling of the Red Cross; Too much money, raised way too fast. A scandal? We may be moving toward the 4 T...but not there yet.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: cbailey on 2001-10-31 10:01 ]</font>

On 2001-10-31 09:59, cbailey wrote:
And now the unraveling of the Red Cross; Too much money, raised way too fast. A scandal? We may be moving toward the 4 T...but not there yet.

CBailey, I was just thinking about that. Were we both watching CNN at same time? :grin:

I was sitting wondering if there is anything to be connected or learned from the Bill Oreilly story of the week (which he is doing a fabulous job of exposing, BTW), how the charity orgs America trusts are collecting a huge windfall and then managing to spend on themselves or hoard for the future, instead of doing what the givers wanted: dis-purse to the victims and families. Connected or learned from the standpoint of faith-based charity solutions (GWB philosophy), that is.

From what I've gathered, the problemo is that the charities are disjointed, all re-inventing same wheel. No common victim database. IOW, hold up the assembly line because certain victims may get more than their shares or double-dip. Also, each charity has different qualification rules. So, applying for aid quickly becomes a lesson in intense frustration.

What I'm trying to ferrot out is, is this the beginnings of an evolution through trial and error and improvement towards a national faith-based charitable initiative that might really work, or is this walking proof that this philosphy is good on paper but not in practice or only on a small scale?

Because, if this *IS* the 4T, and we don't eventually go leftist-progressive, then conservative agendas like this will have to evolve and develop...

FWIW Le Figaro the right-wing French newspaper asserts that Mr. Bin Laden met with the CIA while in hospital in Dubai this summer for a kidney ailment.


Turbans in Langley. Can't see how this could possibly help.

As a resident of New York State, I am familiar with the dysfunctional state government when it comes to fiscal management. New York has not had a state budget passed before its April 1 deadline since 1984. The situation was particularly bad this year, when the state missed its deadline by four months, finally passing a budget in early August. The budget work for FY 2001-2002 (April 1 - March 31) was still not complete, because the budget passed in August was a "bare bones" budget that both political parties agreed was inadequate.

Passage of this budget was a political move by the Democratic Assembly speaker to force the Republican governor back to the negotiating table, to preserve his 2002 electoral chances. This was the political atmosphere before 911. In fact, there were still articles about these supplemental budget negotiations in the morning paper dated September 11, which I saved along with the September 12 edition, to mark the dramatic contrast in the news.

Now, with the events of 911, there is no extra money for any supplemental spending, and New York is now operating on its "bare bones" budget. In fact, there is now a projected $9 billion loss in revenue stemming from the WTC disaster. The bottom line is that New York state is now newly desperate for revenue.

There has been in New York for several years a proposal to allow up to six new gambling casinos in various locations of the state, in addition to the three currently run by Native American tribes. This proposal has not had much support before 911, but in the aftermath of the events of 911, the state Legislature passed it with little debate or public hearings. New York is also going to join the multi-state Powerball lottery, in addition to its own state lottery.

The question raised by this scenario is: Is this a 3T or 4T response? The sudden shift in state fiscal politics indicates a 3T/4T mood shift, but the solution to the budget gap (more gambling, with its corrosive effects on families and society) smacks of a quick 3T fix that will eventually make a 4T worse.

During the last 4T (1931), Nevada legalized casinos, possibly as a way for the state to raise revenue during the Depression. Later in the 1930's, however, New York City mayor LaGuardia cracked down hard on the mob and removed slot machines from businesses, which were common in the 1920's and early 1930's.

It will be interesting to see what happens to all of the gambling casinos built in the 1980's and 1990's nationwide over the next 10-20 years.

I believe that there were lotteries during the Revolutionary War (anyone able to confirm?)...

http://www.msnbc.com/news/651154.asp?0dm=C11RO

I will finally show a piece of proof that we are in 3T.

http://www.thisislondon.com/dynamic/...text_id=424979

<font color="blue"><center><big>Scientists kill mice with dance music</big>
by Danielle Demetriou</center>

Scientists who forced drugged mice to endure fatal doses of loud dance music have been accused of " despicable" cruelty by animal welfare campaigners.

The study by Cambridge University examined how loud music strengthens the harmful effects of methamphetamine, the drug commonly known as speed.

Wendy Higgins of the British Union for the Abolition of Vivisection, said: "These sick experiments are absolutely despicable. Just because people choose to take drugs and go to raves doesn't justify subjecting animals to suffering and death in a laboratory."

The scientists, who used a total of 238 mice in the experiment, concluded that loud music strengthened the toxic effects of methamphetamine in animals. </font>

At first glance, this seems to scream 3T, but then I recalled the way MacArthur broke up the veterans' protests during the previous 4T...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...133737_000.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wor...00/1635111.stm

I especially welcome any comments on this story.

On 2001-10-31 00:16, Barbara wrote:

On 2001-10-30 19:59, HopefulCynic68 wrote:

On 2001-10-30 13:00, Kiff '61 wrote:
Culture warriors take note:

http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html

Evidence of 4T?

Kiff '61

Possibly, but not conclusive. Bush was looking for ways to cut into the Blue Zone ramparts even before 911. The attack probably makes it politically easier.

Well, hell. It doesn't bode well for a romantic version of 4T when one realizes that, in the same moments that decisions and strategies are made about how to find our terror-ized lost, bury our dead, secure our country, pursue the evil-doers, and stop the anthrax, there are also decisions and strategies being made how to get back at or counter Clinton-stealing-GOP-agendas, regain and improve political party share, vaporize the surplus, and re-distribute it through corporate tax breaks, etc.

Surely this isn't while-we're-at-it politics as usual? (yes, and audacious at that) I guess we can never escape it, but Americans are dying in possibly greater numbers over here than there, and it really seems unseemly for the Republican House to throw corporations a retroactive alternative minimum tax repeal bone to the tune of an estimated $12 billion loss in revenue next year alone. Here I am groping for a rationalization: I'd feel somewhat better if I knew that in exchange for this free tax mega-ride, corporations pledged in return not to lay off anyone, no matter what, but we all know that is wishful thinking.

And then there is US Rep Archer's holding up the House legislation to federalize airport security workers, whining that if they allowed the legislation to go through, it would "guarantee millions of new union votes
for the Democratic Party."

I admit I could better live with Senate Republicans' take of arguing that federalization creates more gov't employees that can "never be fired."

Or, perhaps we should thank Mr. Archer for just being honest?

According to a recurring legend, at the very height of the last 4T, when Roosevelt called in key Senators to brief them on the Manhattan Project (after all, they had to put up the cash to make it happen), one of those Senators was the chairman of a key funding committee, and he was from the State of Tennessee.

After the briefing, he supposedly told Roosevelt something like: "I agree with the necessity of this project, and the fact that speed is critical. Where in Tennesee are you going to build it?"

Net result: Oak Ridge.

Anyone who seriously expects a 4T to stop the nuts and bolts of politics is in for one serious disappointment.

I've already said in other posts that America is all for bipartisanship and setting aside our differences. Unfortunately, in most cases what people mean when they say that is that their opponents should get out of the way and let them do what they've been trying to do all along.

I've heard liberals criticize the Republicans for using the crisis to implement tax cuts and refusing to raise taxes and so on. I've heard conservatives accuse Democrats of using the emergency as an excuse to implement their own agendas as well. Both are right, since each side really believes that there agenda is what was called for all along anyway.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HopefulCynic68 on 2001-11-02 21:24 ]</font>

Two Millie Articles:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/652505.asp

http://www.msnbc.com/news/652354.asp

It seems like being an undergrad seems to be the cut off theyre looking at in terms of defining the new generation hit by this event.
Every thing I read focuses in on undergrads.
Hmm

Ralph Nader sounds like he thinks we are in the 4T. And he makes a lot of sense too:


http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/nm/20...ader_dc_1.html


Monday November 5 4:00 PM ET
Nader Says Corporate Power Grabs Followed Sept. 11

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Consumer advocate Ralph Nader said on Monday the United States was ``ripe for a revolt'' against what he called corporate power grabs following the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States.

Joined by representatives of groups including Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth, Nader criticized congressional leaders, the Bush administration and big business for taking advantage of the attacks that killed nearly 4,800 people in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania.

``There is a whole range of power grabs going on,'' Nader said at Washington news conference. ``There is an escalation of the corporate takeover of the United States.

``The ground and soil are ripe for a revolt by the American people,'' the 2000 Green Party presidential candidate added.

Other speakers denounced the auto industry, the airline industry and the energy industry for getting massive government handouts to bail them out of the economic slump set off by the attacks.

The groups have formed ``Citizens Agenda Against Corporate Raids on the Treasury and an Outburst of Wartime Opportunism'' to fight ``non-patriotic'' government spending and policies as well as threats to civil liberties.

``Under the guise of 'national security' our federal treasury is being raided and our democratic rights are being taken away while Congress feeds sympathetic campaign contributors at taxpayer expense, sends working people to fight, and leaves the unemployed, the disenfranchised and American families to suffer,'' the watchdog organization said in a statement.

On 2001-11-06 11:35, Stonewall Patton wrote:
Ralph Nader sounds like he thinks we are in the 4T. And he makes a lot of sense too:


http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/nm/20...ader_dc_1.html


Monday November 5 4:00 PM ET
Nader Says Corporate Power Grabs Followed Sept. 11

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Consumer advocate Ralph Nader said on Monday the United States was ``ripe for a revolt'' against what he called corporate power grabs following the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States.

Joined by representatives of groups including Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth, Nader criticized congressional leaders, the Bush administration and big business for taking advantage of the attacks that killed nearly 4,800 people in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania.

``There is a whole range of power grabs going on,'' Nader said at Washington news conference. ``There is an escalation of the corporate takeover of the United States.

``The ground and soil are ripe for a revolt by the American people,'' the 2000 Green Party presidential candidate added.

Other speakers denounced the auto industry, the airline industry and the energy industry for getting massive government handouts to bail them out of the economic slump set off by the attacks.

The groups have formed ``Citizens Agenda Against Corporate Raids on the Treasury and an Outburst of Wartime Opportunism'' to fight ``non-patriotic'' government spending and policies as well as threats to civil liberties.

``Under the guise of 'national security' our federal treasury is being raided and our democratic rights are being taken away while Congress feeds sympathetic campaign contributors at taxpayer expense, sends working people to fight, and leaves the unemployed, the disenfranchised and American families to suffer,'' the watchdog organization said in a statement.

It seems like people who are liberals seem to think that we are in 4T.

Alright, we have a liberal talking about the need for economic security. Need I say more?

Ummmmm....what would you EXPECT a liberal to believe on economic security?
-Craig

Today is election day for Mayor and City Council in my community. Once again, just like the Primary a month and a half ago...VERY LOW TURNOUT.

That's NOT Fourth Turning.

On 2001-11-06 19:06, cbailey wrote:
Today is election day for Mayor and City Council in my community. Once again, just like the Primary a month and a half ago...VERY LOW TURNOUT.

Define 'low'. What percentage of the registered voters showed up?

Is the country ready to focus on water rates and zoning variances just yet? Personally, I'm just getting used to people caring about national news and international news again. And for myself, I read more of the Guardian and the Independent and listen more often to NPR than I have in a long time, which leaves little time for the community news at the moment.

Just a thought about the media content these days...some people are scared, but most aren't that worried...and though the military is notoriously tight-lipped, could it be that <u>one</u> reason we see and hear more about the anthrax scare than about the war is because of the 3T structure of the media staff? In other words, stations are staffed primarily with personnel who were <u>very</u> adept at following up the kind of domestic leads that involved "who-went-where-and-bought-what-and-mailed-it-to-whom" and have little expertise in discerning one piece of ordnance from another. It may be a long time before ABC et al can assemble a staff of Christina Amanpours, after which the nation's interest in telling one faction from another may rise accordingly. In the meantime, there are a lot of salaries to justify on the streets of the Naked City.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kevin1952 on 2001-11-06 20:04 ]</font>