Susan, I also agree with Marc that this is only 1919. I base this, of course, on astrological grounds, so we'll see... But remember I predicted this current war, more or less. I knew America would go to war in the Summer of 2001. Sept.11 did not shock me; I expected something of the sort. If we were living in 1917, we would think that our entry into World War I was a "crisis." It certainly seemed so to people then. But "normalcy" returned afterward. I think it will again. Right now there is oppression of differences, something that continued into the 1920s. Government is also trying to increase its powers in response to 9-11. But the authorities are also telling us to go on being Americans to "show the terrorists they can't stop our way of life." Little sacrifice is being asked from the people. Shoppers are flocking to the malls. If the terrorists are caught soon, and the economy doesn't tailspin, then the 3T mood will resume. This Crisis of post-Sept.11 does not challenge the heart of what needs to be challenged during the next Crisis. It is only a passing event. Look indeed for the real Crisis to begin almost 9 years from now!

Sept.11 is a sign-post, however (and I'm surprised this did not lead me to make my prediction for 2001 even more specific than it was), and confirms a trend which I forecast in 1993. The great Uranus-Neptune conjunction of 1993 (circa 1989-97), which changed world affairs forever (as I predicted it would), saw the first attack on the World Trade Center in 1993. People said THEN that America was forever changed, because we were now vulnerable to attack. This was correct, and a sign of things to come over the next 170 years, from 1993. I said exactly this at the time. Neither 1993 nor 2001 is the start of a turning, but 2001 expresses the fact that we entered a new age of international affairs in circa 1993! One in which we Americans are now vulnerable, and must face the karma of actions by those who hate us.

It's about time I start lifting weights. :wink:

From Usatoday.com:

Ground zero's manly men are turning heads

By Olivia Barker, USA TODAY

NEW YORK ? Women used to cross the street to avoid James Guiliani. Now they're crossing the street to ogle him.

"You get it a lot now," says Guiliani, 34, the head foreman on a construction site in swanky SoHo, a couple of miles north of the World Trade Center site. There, the Queens resident dug and hauled debris during a 19-hour shift two days after the terrorist attacks. "You see them eyeball you, you eye them back. You get a few 'How are you doing today's?' "

In yet another example of a post-Sept. 11 world turned inside out, models in Manolos are doing the catcalling, not men in hard hats.

After decades of disrespect and neglect, manly men ? the kind of guys who can build a wall and knock one down, who prefer muscular Mustangs to manicured Mercedes ? are suddenly chic. In a somewhat curious consequence of the attacks on America, blue-collar cops and firefighters, tradesmen and soldiers across the USA have been transformed into heartthrobs and hunks.

Indeed, some Everymen are wary of their newfound stud status, however fleeting, grumbling that it detracts from the dignity and gravity of their work. Still, they say that if it's a means of casting their professions in a much-needed positive light, they're grateful.

The phenomenon isn't limited to New York and Washington, D.C. And it goes beyond Gotham's finest and bravest. Foundry workers, mechanics and UPS drivers ? basically men in any uniform that doesn't require a tie ? have caught the fancy of women across the country.

"I tell you, when he's got that outfit on, it's like (sigh)," says Felice Recupero, a personal assistant who has been dating a guy from her local Upper East Side firehouse for nearly a month.

"They're an addiction," says Recupero, 31, whose usual boyfriends are more about cocktail lounges than Irish pubs. "My friends are all saying, 'Don't break up with him yet. We want to meet the other guys.' "

They're not the only ones looking for knights in shining helmets.

? Down at New York's ground zero, the yellow "Do Not Cross" sign has become a veritable velvet rope as stories circulate of scantily clad women vamping it up for the rescue workers.

? Firefighter calendar collections are coming out of the closet. At the Outwrite Bookstore and Coffeehouse in Atlanta, sales of the aptly named 2002 Hotlanta Firemen Calendar are "going through the roof," says owner Philip Rafshoon, who has positioned the 12 pinups prominently, right in the front rack. "I cannot keep it in stock." The calendar benefits the Georgia Firefighters Burn Foundation, as well as burn centers in New York and the nation's capital.

? Even Doonesbury addressed the World Trade Center site's status as a pickup joint in a recent series of strips, including one in which Marcia insists: "It's not just 9/11, Mike ? I've always had a thing for firefighters!"

"In times of physical danger, men like that look more interesting to women," says Sam Keen, whose 1991 book, Fire in the Belly: On Being a Man, heralded a return to manliness.

"When everything's going well, maybe it's the corporate executive who sits at his desk and doesn't have a muscle in his body," Keen says. "But when push comes to shove, let's face it, women want the guy who can kill the saber-toothed tiger."

Women have always swooned over bulging biceps and calloused hands, at least privately. "It's just that most of these guys are never appreciated until they're really needed," says Marvel Comics editor in chief Joe Quesada, who created a comic starring a firefighter-cum-superhero, Ash, which ran from 1996 to 1999. "Then, all of a sudden, they're gods. Unfortunately, it takes a tragedy to recognize this." Since Sept. 11, fans have been clamoring to bring Ash back.

In Coffeyville, Kan., "folks look at us a little differently," says firefighter Wayne Joplin, 37. "There's a little more admiration. They kind of care about us more."

In Osterville, Mass., Brendan Burchell, an Army National Guard combat medic, says more parents are trying to set him up with their daughters. The attention is noticeable. At the gym, his "Army"-emblazoned T-shirt sticks out. "The haircut, the way you walk ? it draws questions," says Burchell, 27, who re-enlisted just after Sept. 11.

But Burchell is wary of the firefighter and soldier groupies who have suddenly sprung up, saying that it diminishes the seriousness of the situation. "This is about us coming together as Americans," he says. "I can't really care about finding a date now."

Nonetheless, Sept. 11 has become an icebreaker for the men of the Glen Echo Fire Department in Bethesda, Md. A uniformed Pete Mayo was with his partner, picking up lunch at the supermarket deli counter, when a woman came up and "started talking my head off." Was she flirting? "She very well may have been," says Mayo, 40, grinning broadly.

Used to be that the only people who paid them any mind were little boys waving from the back of station wagons. Now, women drive by, honk their horns and shout, "We love you!" Especially vocal are college women. "Oh, man," sighs Robert Nishiyama, 28, patting his chest with his right hand.

Manhattanite Elizabeth Runnoe always had gone for investment-banker types in blue button-down shirts and khaki pants. A British accent was a bonus.

Now she's looking for brawn. "All these guys going out and saving lives ? that's a really attractive quality in a man," says Runnoe, 23, who works for an online ad agency. "They're heroes. They're actually going out and making a difference."

Washboard stomachs aside, "they have good hearts," she adds.

Still, Recupero's romance has proven a bit of a culture shock. "He got me to watch the Yankees at home on the couch," she marvels. "My friends were like, 'Oh, my God, are you in love?' "

And as dating a firefighter becomes, well, trendy, Recupero has found she has competition. During the recent New York City Marathon, two women asked her boyfriend if he would pose for a picture with them in front of his company's truck ? even though his arms were wrapped around Recupero. A firefighter standing next to her got an unsolicited phone number from yet another female spectator.

These days, New York's bravest are like the latest Louis Vuitton bag, Recupero explains: "You have to have one."

Guiliani is snagging more dates now, too. A few weeks ago, he trekked out for the first time to The Park, a posh Manhattan bar where "yuppies hide in the corners by the candles whispering about the poem they read last night," as Guiliani puts it.

The 6-foot-2, 230-pound foreman, who sounds like he could be on The Sopranos but looks like he could be in GQ, started regaling patrons with stories of his tour of duty at the disaster site. "The girls were digging it," he says. "They wanted to hear what it smelled like, what it felt like." And they drooled over his Noo Yawk delivery.

Guiliani charmed them so much that he persuaded two women to head uptown with him and four of his buddies to their usual watering hole, the hard-hat-friendly Hogs & Heifers. "That surprised the hell out of me," says Guiliani, whose 17 tattoos include a spider web stretched across his right elbow and skulls stamped on his left arm. "I'm not like one of these little guys with glasses."

During a recent trip to Hogs, Guiliani strides in and is greeted with hugs, smooches and a shot of Southern Comfort from Stef Jacobs, 26, a bartender sporting a red, belly-baring shirt. A couple of beers later, Guiliani holds court with a clutch of twentysomething women, cradling their waists and kissing their cheeks.

"They're looking at me like a person now," he says.

As a New Yorker, I really enjoyed reading the previous post. It's somewhat strange to me that we see the cultural trappings of a 4T such as flag waving, firefighter and police worship, and yet everyone is running out to buy things because the flag has been put up. Of course, people still seem to be acting Unraveling. It's almost as if September 11 never happened. Now the government is forecasting that the economy will recover by next year. This really could be 1921 or so. In the early 1920's, there was a steep depression ( in the days before economists used the term recession) that led to double digit unemployment and serious price deflation that would foreshadow the Great Depression about a decade later. While we may call 911 our stockmarket crash, in some ways it may be more akin to the 1920's. Even the flag waving isn't as much of an indicator as it might seem. Think of the Gulf War and all the flags that went up then. Then look at the similarity between Sep. 11 and the Wall Street anarchist attack of 1921 or so. Even the roundup of illegals is in some ways is reminiscent of the Palmer Raids. America has always been unsettled in late Unravelings. If Pearl Harbor had been attacked in 1921 instead of 1941 would we have had a war against Japan? Definitely but a global war simultaneously against Japan and Germany on the side of the UK and the USSR looks far less likely. The flag waving would have been temporary but the mood would have remained much the same. After the war, growing alienation would continue and wartime memories would recede with a period of extended economic expansion and a nondescript Republican president ruling over everything, caught up with some oil scandals. Remember the Teapot Oil Dome scandal?

US planned war in Afghanistan long before
September 11

By Patrick Martin
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/no...afgh-n20.shtml 20 November 2001

Where will Hip-Hop go next? The way it looks, it will go towards political activism.


Time to Elevate: Hip-Hop Resists Terror and War
Jeff Chang, AlterNet
November 26, 2001
Viewed on November 26, 2001

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The biggest news in hip-hop this past summer had to do with beefs, all kinds of them, with feuding artists prepared to serve each other's heads up via freestyle war. Of course, this verbal sparring, this dozens-playing, this oral one-upsmanship is at the core of rap. Yet, after the mid-'90s deaths of Tupac Shakur and Biggie Smalls -- a rhyme rivalry turned fatally violent -- every new feud seems to have promised new danger.

After Sept. 11, all of this seemed kind of silly.

As long-time hip-hop journalist Oliver Wang fumed, "In the wake of the deaths of thousands you realize that, in the big scheme of things, hip-hop doesn't mean shit. Do we really care about Jay Z and Nas' war of words?"

Wang went on to ask how relevant hip-hop artists could be. And for many in the Hip-Hop Generation, it seemed their culture might be unable to take them forward through a time of crisis.

"Now is the time that music and all art should matter, should seek to make a statement, create an effect," Wang wrote. "And if it doesn't, it's a waste of everyone's time."

As he was writing these words, though, hip-hop activists across the country were in motion, organizing teach-ins, speak-outs, solidarity marches and peace demonstrations. The day after the attacks, Bay Area hip-hop activist group STORM and a number of other organizations issued a four-point manifesto. Their call was simple:

1) Oppose terrorism and build people's power.

2) Oppose the narrowing or elimination of the people's democratic rights.

3) Rely on global justice to deter future attacks.

4) Oppose racist bigotry.

They argued, "Increasingly, safety at home will require justice abroad." Their call, disseminated throughout the world via the internet, inspired many other young activists to begin their own organizing.

Hip-hop activism came into its own in 2000, at the Republican and Democratic National Conventions, where youth-led protests attracted both warm intergenerational support and severe police crackdowns. Thousands of young people took courageous stands against the massive profiling and imprisoning of their generation; against the death penalty; for better education; and for stopping gang violence. They linked these issues to global struggles for economic and racial justice.

The promise of the Hip-Hop Generation lies perfectly positioned to bring the politics of the world to the street corner and the politics of the street corner to the world. As a multiracial, polycultural cohort raised in the era of globalization, the Hip-Hop Generation can play a central moral role in the call for peace -- linking peace on the streets where we live to a global peace free from terror.

The history of the Hip-Hop Generation describes why. At one time, elders dissed us by saying that we were privileged, that we had never been tested by war. (This, of course, was before Bush's father's Persian Gulf War.) But the fact is that hip-hop culture was born under the conditions of war. It grew and spread as a global alternative to war.

Before hip-hop, during the early 1970s, Jamaica's bloody political wars fostered a music and culture of defiance in roots, dancehall and dub reggae. This music and culture -- a safe space from the bloody gang runnings on the street -- emigrated to the Bronx -- a space so devastated by deindustrialization and governmental neglect that when Ronald Reagan visited in 1980, he declared it looked like London after World War II. In the Bronx, the Universal Zulu Nation, hip-hop's first institution and organization, literally emerged from a peace forged between racially divided, warring gangs.

As Reagan took office, immigration was rapidly browning the face of America. A "culture war" was declared -- which, among other things, was a way to contain the nation's growing diversity. Culture warriors went after youth in their schools; they fought multiculturalism, ethnic studies and affirmative action. In Congress, they sought to censor movie and music content.

Hip-hop turned out to be everything they detested -- it was real, truth-telling, unapologetic and, worst of all, kids loved it. Imagine how they felt when Chuck D enlistened millions into the opposition by rhyming, "They'll never care for the brothers and sisters cause the country has us up for a war."

In one sense, hip-hop won the culture war. By the end of the '80s, Public Enemy and Spike Lee, John Singleton and N.W.A. and other brothers and sisters had crashed the lily-white pop culture mainstream. Hip-hop became the single most potent global youth force in a generation.

But the culture war had serious political consequences, too. Right-wingers manufactured the conditions, moving drugs and guns into the ghetto via the wars in Central America, causing a resurgence of gang warfare. And they succeeded in stigmatizing inner-city gangs, whose ranks, of course, were swollen with young, poor people of color, as mindlessly, irredeemably violent and evil.

Hip-hop reveled in the young generation's diversity. The culture warriors taught other generations to be afraid of it.

When the '90s came, they warned of a coming wave of juvenile crime, one that would crest with the darkening demographic surge. Their apocalyptic predictions helped foster a dramatic shift in juvenile justice, away from rehabilitation towards incarceration. Forty-eight states made their juvenile crime statutes more punitive. Dozens of cities instituted curfews, anti-cruising laws and "sweep ordinances" (which were ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court but have reappeared in many cities).

Especially after the 1992 Los Angeles riots, as an urgent gang truce forged peace across the country, the new laws were implemented at a feverish clip and enforced with a heavy hand. Juvenile arrests and detention populations skyrocketed, even as juvenile violent crime rates plummeted.

Local police, the FBI and private companies began compiling gang databases. Practically every young boy or girl of color who fit the profile -- sagging, baggy jeans, athletic shoes, hip-hop swagger -- became fodder for the gang databases. In Cook County, IL, the gang database was two-thirds black. In Orange County, CA, 92 percent of those listed were of color. Angry Black, Chicano and Latino parents in Denver, CO, learned that eight of every 10 young people of color in the entire city were listed.

Postmodern racial profiling was invented for the Hip-Hop Generation, the most catalogued and surveillanced group in history. Along with the "war on drugs" -- the only result of which has been racist sentencing and the largest prison population in world history -- what hip-hop activists called the "war on youth" left a generation staring into a tense present and an insecure future. Hip-hop activism is this generation's way of fighting back.

In the meantime, hip-hop culture has become something else entirely. Because of the wide popularity of rap music, hip-hop has one foot firmly planted in the mainstream. But the bling-bling flaunting now looks less like the defiance of impoverished outcasts than the callous materialism of a dark-skinned nouveau riche. The truth? Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

And yet that has never been the whole of what hip-hop is about. The same peace and unity-seeking impulse that moved hip-hop forward with the Universal Zulu Nation and the post-riot gang truces is again at work across the country, as hip-hop artists and activists come together to figure out how to take a stand in a new world.

They are dealing with a world that has profoundly changed. Initial polling by both Gallup and Zogby suggest that Blacks now favor racial profiling of Arabs, Muslims and South Asians at rates much higher than whites.

Authorities that once profiled young Blacks and Latinos have now shifted their energies to Arabs, Muslims and South Asians. Many now report that hostilities have eased between cops and kids of color. But while crime has dropped in some inner cities, racial tensions have heightened.

Some stores have shuttered, and others have reportedly become targets of systematic gang looting. Hijab-wearing Arab girls and turban-headed Sikh boys have become easy targets for misguided pseudo-patriots. Escort services accompany women and children to supermarkets and schools. Meanwhile, under the flimsiest of legal arguments, thousands have been detained and many more have been deported. Civil liberties, especially for immigrants, are being decimated.

How can the Hip-Hop Generation react?

It must react, first, by refusing to be cowed. After Sept. 11, the record industry, like the rest of the entertainment industry, has sanctioned artists that have spoken out against the war. But just as hip-hop artists unmasked Clinton's benevolent neoliberalism and, during the 1992 elections, Quayle's culture-war hypocrisy, many are now exposing the war machine for what it is.

In Brooklyn, Lefty, an Palestinian American rapper from the group Arab Assassins, was placed under FBI investigation because he had written lyrics calling for peace in the Holy Land and criticizing stereotypes of "irrationally violent" Arabs. "You made us when you labelled us / The world will remember this / Go ahead, son, you labelled me a motherfuckin' terrorist", he rhymes. "I'm Arafat, Bin-laden and Saddam in one." Lefty has since been cleared and continues to record.

The Oakland rap crew The Coup also has come under fire because their album cover, concocted months before the 9/11 tragedy, displayed them detonating an explosion in the World Trade Center with a guitar tuner and drum sticks, a visual pun alluding to the way rap might overturn capitalism. The media flogged the group, and their label quickly changed the album cover.

But Coup rapper Boots Riley has since used his notoriety to criticize the war. He says, "When they're trying to stop you from doing things, when they're asking these big name artists to change their videos because there's something slightly anti-authoritarian in them, that's when it's time for artists that do have an analysis about changing the system to make sure that their message is clear and out there, and to not back down."

Hip-hop activists should continue their efforts to link their analysis of globalization with domestic militarization. Now, of course, it is clearer than ever just how insecure militarism leaves all of the youth of the world. It is also easier now to understand the Hip-Hop Generation as a global one, united not only by a common culture but by a politics that transcends borders.

This is what Dead Prez meant when they said, "It's bigger than hip-hop." We have been building the foundation for three decades, now is the time to elevate it.

JayN, I agree.

I still think that we are in the 3T. The events of 911 was certainly a very large spark, but the chemistry is not yet ready for catastrophic combustion. Using the seasonal analogy, 911 was like a Thanksgiving weekend blizzard with 12 inches of snow. This snow will stay around for a week, but warmer late autumn weather will melt all of it away before winter really begins.

One reason I believe this is that the Silents are still active, with the youngest members of this generation still only around 60. They are the same age as the Progressives circa 1920. However, by the end of this decade, the Boomers will have almost fully displaced the Silents from positions of institutional power. As long as we have Silents in charge of the Federal Reserve, the State Department, the Defense Department, the Department of Justice, and the Vice President, all key posts in Operation Enduring Freedom, then our response will be 3T. Once Boomers fill these key positions, however, then we will really be ready for 4T. We will also need to see more Xers become nationally known figures in the government and the military. Finally, there needs to be a large segment of Millennials in their young adult years. Right now, only the 1982 and 1983 babies are old enough to serve in the military. In 1920, the 1901 and 1902 GI's were the same age.

To Joe:
I've been wondering about this myself for the last few weeks. It seemed kinda odd that we would be in a 4T if only the '82 and '83 Millenial cohorts could serve in the military. This would be the equivalent of the last 4T begining in 1920. The hand just doesn't fit the glove, to paraphrase a certain lawyer we all love to hate. Furthermore, the Silent don't appear to be receding from power. While I haven't done a count, there seem to be as many Silent in the Bush cabinet as there are Boomers. And the most important posts, Defense and State, are both held by Silents. Silent still make up a large share of Congress. The House Speaker is Silent. So is the Majority Leader and the Minority Leader of the House. And so is the Minority Leader of the Senate, though the Majority Leader is a first wave Boomer who acts a lot like a Silent (characterizing an Anthrax letter sent to his office as "deeply disappointing"). I don't know about governors and mayors but I suspect the case is the same. The recently elected mayor of New York is a late wave Silent. It's almost as if Boomers sit on the throne where their GI father used to sit but their trusted advisers are thier older Silent mentors from the Awakening. Silent cooled America in the 60's and kept it from imploding in the 70's. Maybe thier looking back and trying to do the same now. The nations of Europe seem to lag in the Third Turning behind us by about 5 years. So think of the mood in America circa 1995, when we thought we could avoid any military involvement anywhere, and then realize this is what we are dealing with when it comes to our NATO allies. Sure, we'll win this battle because we have to. But if it helps, don't think of Osama as the evil version of our Grey Champion. Think of him as a John Brown-archetype (reverse point of view) for this cycle with Bush playing James Buchanan to head off full scale conflict. Bush really wants this country to be normal. It's much better for the bottom lines of his corporate oil donors than the real things involved with a 4T (economic collapse, higher taxes, conscription, massive resource mobilization). Notice his prescriptions are all the opposite: tax cuts, retention of an all volunteer force, economic stimulus, and recources for consumption. The only thing in common with a 1940's type military buildup is the rising defense spending. Even this is rahter low by historical standards (3.9 % of GDP compared to 7 % under Reagan).

Can anyone think of an example of a late 3T war? Give the S&H prediction that the 4T will start around 2005, I'm wondering what reaction Pancho Villa would have gotten in the mid-1920s-especially if he had blown up some things.

[ This Message was edited by: Tim Walker on 2001-11-26 23:00 ]

I'm actually kind of concerned that we may now be reaping the logical results of the overemphasis on "tolerance" over the last three decades. Much of this is due to well intentioned programs started by GI and Silent Generation politicians such as affirmative action or multiculturalism. But much of this is also due to vicous political correctness displayed by radical leftwing college professors of the Boomer variety who never let the Vietnam War go. Sure the government is definitely corrupt but does this mean that this war is not justified? When I hear idiotic Marxo-leftists such as Susan Sontag or Barbara Kingsolver bashing America and equating the killing of thousands of innocent people who were providing for their families in skyscrapers as equivalent to the destruction of some beloved phallic symbols, I have nothing but contempt for them. And I am a passionate liberal Democrat from the Northeast who voted enthusiastically for Gore and endorses every liberal cause from choice to environmental conservation and labor rights. But these psuedo-intellectuals really get to me when I realize that the remains of about three thousand people have
not been recovered from the Trade Center site post-cleanup. Many of them will never be- someone's aunt, uncle, mom, dad, brother, sister, daughter or son or best friend. For once I agree with the conservatives more. Stop apologizing America to the rest of the world for our sins and fight.

"And I am a passionate liberal Democrat from the Northeast who voted enthusiastically for Gore and endorses every liberal cause from choice to environmental conservation and labor rights. But these psuedo-intellectuals really get to me when I realize that the remains of about three thousand people have
not been recovered from the Trade Center site post-cleanup."

Mike Alexander... are you listening? (Editors note: I would lovee to post the actual [url] here. No can do, as the webmaster has chosen to HIDE the [url] address for each page at T4T.com for some unknown reason. Sad.)

[Mike] You see a similarity between 1919 and 2001 as a reaction against something. I can see 1919 as a reaction against the Red menace. But what is 2001 a reaction against?

[Marc] First, a new generation [Xers] is both introduced to a rebirth of post-Reagan patriotism. But it will not sustain, it will not satisfy for the destruction that occurred on 9/11. Nothing can. It is the utlimate disappointment. We can't bring those folks back... and we aren't ready for a new paradigm to formulate. We, Boomers, haven't even peaked yet.

On 2001-11-26 22:48, Tim Walker wrote:
Can anyone think of an example of a late 3T war? Give the S&H prediction that the 4T will start around 2005, I'm wondering what reaction Pancho Villa would have gotten in the mid-1920s-especially if he had blown up some things.

In the mid 1920s, the generations had been aligned and poised for a 4T for a few years. So it is possible that it could've changed the national mood.

The 911 attacks is pushing America into a 4T. The generations are being forced into their 4T roles. Millie teens are being pushed into a Crisis era Hero role, Xers have completed their transition into midlife, and Boomers are being forced into old age. Boomers are becoming both the Christians and New Age Evangelists that are finally relinquishing their youth.

One test for society will come in November 2002 with the congressional elections.

http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/epa...312e2004a.html


Character makes a comeback
Americans' attitudes adjust for the better after Sept. 11 horrors
Drew Jubera - Staff
Sunday, November 25, 2001

Turns out we're . . . patient.

Who would have thought? Before Sept. 11, the American attention span seemed best-suited for second-rate political scandals, MTV videos, DSL connections and psychic hotlines. Our patience was measured in gigahertz rather than seconds; we were such an antsy, caffeinated society we celebrated the new millennium a year before it actually arrived.

Now our political leadership tells us the war on terrorism could take months, years --- decades. But we are the nouveau stoics, the suddenly stolid. We can deal with decades.

"We're not a patient society, but we've always risen to the moment," says Haynes Johnson, Pulitzer Prize-winning author of the recently published "The Best of Times: America in the Clinton Years," a good-bad portrait of America during the fat-and-happy '90s. "We had patience during the Cold War for 50 years and it paid off. We have to develop that cast of mind again. It's a tricky thing."

A degree of patience is just one trait Americans have reclaimed since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. To many observers of the national character, America has become more like America again --- a real-life, right-now version of what for years had been packaged as nostalgia.

Uninspired by baby boomers and the succeeding alphabet generations --- Generation X, Generation Y, Generation Next --- Americans wallowed in the feats of the "Greatest Generation," which came of age during World War II.

Heroism was downgraded to a vicarious, Spielberg-produced pastime --- something we bought a ticket to or killed a Sunday night with. We lined up to see "Saving Private Ryan" to peek at what real values looked like.

But since Sept. 11, we've rediscovered parts of our national makeup that many believed we'd either lost or forgotten. Through most of the '90s, we were bombarded with images of ourselves as apathetic, self-indulgent, soft, silly. Now, hardly a day goes by without an image or report of some act of patriotism, selflessness, courage, sobriety.

"[Those characteristics] were always there, but the last few years I think they were subterranean," says NBC anchor Tom Brokaw, who produced three books about World War II's "Greatest Generation." "We were living in a kind of bubble --- the economy was in dot-com fever, there was peace in the world by and large, there were no great engaging issues during the presidential campaign. People were on cruise control.

"For the last couple years, there's been a longing for more authentic experiences," Brokaw adds. ''Part of that is the reaction to my books. People would read the books and say, 'My God, are we worthy of our time? Are we being tested?'

"September 11 changed all that."

The traits we've seen in the attacks' aftermath --- the firefighters who rushed into the World Trade Center to save lives at the expense of their own; the more than $1 billion donated to terror-related charities; the ability to live our lives amid anthrax and future terrorist threats --- were there before Sept. 11.

Ready for new shift

The country already seemed weary of what it had become. Divorce rates had dropped for the first time in decades. Charitable giving was up. Peacetime patriotism blossomed in the presidential candidacy of Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), whose heroics in Vietnam made him appealing to voters in both parties.

"I think there's been a big change [since Sept. 11], but it wasn't overnight," says Alan Wolfe, director of the Center for Religion and the American Public at Boston College, and author of "One Nation, After All," a survey of middle American attitudes. "I think it would have happened even if Sept. 11 hadn't happened, but those events accelerated everything.

"I think it'll immediately translate into everyday life," he adds. "I wouldn't be surprised if you see people getting more interested in foreign affairs, voting participation increase, fewer divorces."

Curiously enough, that hasn't been the case with divorce in Atlanta. As he thought about his business in the post-9/11 world, attorney John Mayoue said he was nearly certain that the number of divorces would decline. Mayoue says now, "I think that conclusion is flawed. The way I've seen it unfold, I see two very distinct reactions to Sept. 11, neither of which is going to reduce the divorce rate.

"One is this serious introspection, where we're going to examine the quality of our life. Those people, more often than not, are trying to stay in relationships. I see the other side, people who are more into self-gratification --- live for the moment . . . and they are saying, 'I'm insecure, I'm in a bad relationship, I want out.' "

Mayoue checked on divorce filings in Fulton County and was surprised to see that they are "exactly flat" --- neither down nor up --- when comparing the months before 9/11 and the months after.

But the events of the fall have done wonders for civic responsibility. Voter turnout for Atlanta's mayoral election this month was 41 percent, far in excess of the 28 percent turnout in 1997, when Bill Campbell ran for re-election.

The most dramatic shift since the attacks has been Americans' attitudes toward government. Various polls have shown trust in Washington soaring to levels not seen since the early '60s.

"During Vietnam and Watergate there was a lot of cynicism," says Carrol Doherty, editor of The Pew Research Center for the People & the Press. "But what we're seeing now, we can't find cynicism about much at all --- even the press."

Passing the test

Nobody knows yet whether this cultural shift is permanent or a passing phase. But it has given Americans a renewed sense of their inherent strengths. They've been tested, and so far, they've passed. If not the Greatest Generation, this current crop is at least the Good Enough Generation.

Haynes Johnson recalls driving by ground zero shortly after the attacks and being stunned by the crowds of young people lining the streets to support workers there.

Brokaw talked to a young firefighter after a funeral for one of his colleagues at St. Patrick's Cathedral and was told flatly, "Mr. Brokaw, you watch my generation.''

''They have the potential to be greater than the 'greatest' generation," says Wolfe of the young people living through these times.

Wolfe adds that although the World War II generation survived and accomplished astonishing things, there were flaws in their worldview, including racial segregation and inequality between men and women. The generation dealing with a post-Sept. 11 world has the opportunity to go beyond that.

"If they rise to the occasion, you could truly see a 'great' generation," he says. "I don't know if it's going to happen --- everything could go back to normal and they could all go back to their jobs on Wall Street. But these kids are very decent people and this event has shaken them. They understand this will stay with them the rest of their lives." 
_________________
Robert Reed III (1982)
---------------------------------------------
"Life is not a cancer of matter; it is matter's transcendence of itself." - John S. Lewis
"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen." - Einstein

[ This Message was edited by: madscientist on 2001-11-26 23:45 ]

On 2001-11-26 23:26, madscientist wrote:
The 911 attacks is pushing America into a 4T. The generations are being forced into their 4T roles. Millie teens are being pushed into a Crisis era Hero role, Xers have completed their transition into midlife, and Boomers are being forced into old age. Boomers are becoming both the Christians and New Age Evangelists that are finally relinquishing their youth.

Thanks, but this late-wave Boomer isn't ready for old age (middle-age perhaps -- I feel it in my sore muscles, but not OLD age!). My baby-fine hair is stubbornly staying brown, so I can't be a grey champion any time soon! And as my first-grader would say, p l e e e z e! :lol:

On 2001-11-26 22:49, JayN wrote:
When I hear idiotic Marxo-leftists such as Susan Sontag or Barbara Kingsolver bashing America and equating the killing of thousands of innocent people who were providing for their families in skyscrapers as equivalent to the destruction of some beloved phallic symbols, I have nothing but contempt for them. And I am a passionate liberal Democrat from the Northeast who voted enthusiastically for Gore and endorses every liberal cause from choice to environmental conservation and labor rights. But these psuedo-intellectuals really get to me when I realize that the remains of about three thousand people have
not been recovered from the Trade Center site post-cleanup. Many of them will never be- someone's aunt, uncle, mom, dad, brother, sister, daughter or son or best friend. For once I agree with the conservatives more. Stop apologizing America to the rest of the world for our sins and fight.

I have to agree with JayN here; I can't believe all of the stupidity and insensitivity (yes, lefties *can* be insensitive!) that I'm hearing from some of those folks. As far as I'm concerned, their comments are just as bad as what Falwell and Robertson said after the attacks, and they should be ashamed of themselves.

Get out of your ivory towers and get out on the streets, folks. Get a life!

Kiff '61

An interesting post about Saddam Hussein from that A and E show "Mysteries of the Bible". The information is from 1998 but it feels like today as Bush prepares to go after Saddam.
http://www.biblemysteries.com/lectures/saddam/

While my personal belief is that we are still in the 3t I am not certain if the exact boundary line between 3t and 4t is as important as how generations RESPOND to events. This is taken from Generations, p. 212. I'm not sure what sounds more like this situation than what I cite. We may be in the begining of a Civil War-type Crisis starting early. I can see 13ers today in both the US and the Middle East as similar to Gilded in both the North and South at the start of the Civil War. Replace railroads with the Internet and slavery with terrorism and it sounds uncannily eerie.
"Back across the the still empty Great Plains, the Gilded added leather lungs to the polarizing debate over Union- first as the core of the nativist "Young America" movement, next as "Know Nothings" shouting their defiantly anti-Transcendental slogan "Deeds Not Words", and finally as unpropertied "Lincoln shouters" and "hurrah boy" Republicans. In the North, they agreed with Lincoln's argument that slavery posed a threat to free men everywhere- and they were coaxed by the new party's promises to enact a new homestead law and build railroads. In the South, cries for battle rose from those whom Sherman darkly referred to as "young blodds" and "sons of planters"- "brave, fine, riders, bold to rashness, and dangerous subjects in every sense" who "must be killed or employed by us before we can hope for peace". Ranging in age from 19 to 39 in 1861, the Gilded were ready, in Twain's words, "to make choice of a life-course & move with a rush." Many volunteered for war, like Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., "because we want to realize our spontaneity of joy and prove our power for the joy of it.""

Sounds like Israel is getting ready for a Fourth Turning.

-
WORLD

Arafat faces war crimes charges in
Belgium

By Andrew Osborn in Brussels

Thirty Israelis with relatives killed in Palestinian terrorist attacks are to
bring a case against Yasser Arafat in a Belgian court, taking advantage
of a 1993 law that allows Belgium to try foreigners for war crimes
committed abroad.

Their decision puts Belgium in a difficult position, because 28 survivors
of the Sabra and Shatila refugee camp massacres in Beirut 19 years ago
have lodged a similar complaint against the Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel
Sharon, using the same legal mechanism.

That case has embarrassed the Belgian Government. As present holder
of the European Union's rotating presidency, it is supposed to be playing
a key role in advancing the Middle East peace process, and it has found
that difficult while its courts have been considering whether to prosecute
Mr Sharon for war crimes.

The complaint against Mr Arafat, president of the Palestinian Authority,
will be lodged at the high court in Brussels on Tuesday, the day before it
is to decide whether Mr Sharon can be tried for the Sabra and Shatila
killings.

The case against Mr Arafat does not relate to a single incident but seeks
to hold him personally responsible for the death of "thousands of terror
victims" since he "began operations in 1966". It accuses him of murder,
genocide and crimes against humanity.

Lieutenant-Colonel Meir Indor, chairman of the Terror Victims
Association, which is bringing the complaint, said: "It is ironic that we
have to prove in court what all the world has known for over 20 years,
that Yasser Arafat is the world's foremost terrorist. The time has now
come to hold him responsible for his actions.''

A Belgian lawyer, Yves Oschinsky, confirmed that he had been
instructed to handle the case on behalf of the bereaved Israelis, and said
that their accusations "had nothing whatsoever to do with the Israeli
Government".

The complainants said in a statement that Mr Arafat would be charged
with "murders which he ordered and which were carried out by
members of organisations which Arafat controls: the PLO, the
Palestinian Authority police force, Fatah, Tanzim, and Force 17".

They said they would also lay charges against Mr Arafat's "assistants",
and named Mohamaramed Dahlan, Marwan Barghouti and Jibril
Rajoub.

They cited atrocities and attacks committed since the Palestinian
Authority was set up in the West Bank and Gaza in 1994.

The 30 complainants lost relatives in attacks including the suicide
bombing of a pizza restaurant in central Jerusalem in August that killed
15 people.

Mr Sharon says the case against him is "an attempt to try the state of
Israel and the Jewish people". He is accused of being responsible for the
death of about 3,000 Palestinian and Lebanese refugees massacred
when Lebanese Christian Phalangists ran amok in the Sabra and Shatila
camps in 1982.

The Guardian

On 2001-11-27 07:17, Jenny Genser wrote:

On 2001-11-26 23:26, madscientist wrote:
Boomers are being forced into old age.

Thanks, but this late-wave Boomer isn't ready for old age (middle-age perhaps -- I feel it in my sore muscles, but not OLD age!). My baby-fine hair is stubbornly staying brown, so I can't be a grey champion any time soon! And as my first-grader would say, p l e e e z e! :lol:

I'm with you, Jenny. While you may be right about the other gens, Robert, this butt-end Boomer ain't OLD! My hair is still blondish brownish without any gray either. True, I've put on a few extra pounds that weren't there when I was 25, but believe it or not, I still get CARDED on occasion! Maybe those people just need glasses, I dunno. When it doesn't happen anymore at all, maybe I'll worry that I've finally become "old." In spirit, too, I don't feel old. Until I was 35, I still thought of myself as one of "the kids" rather than one of "the adults." Sometimes I still do. Old schmold.

Hey, MadScientist.
I'm just out of my teens. I hardly feel middle aged. I still maintain what I said about 13ers and the Gilded a couple of posts back. We're either in a 3T. Or if we're in a 4T it's an early Crisis and we'll see Xers and first wave Millenials drafted in a couple of years. If we go to war against Iraq and a bunch of other countries than we're going to need more man and woman power for our military than we have right now. We're out the lowest level of active duty troops since Pearl Harbor right now. Don't bet on it staying that way. On the bright side, if we come through this Crisis I'll probably be middle aged by then. Just in time to burn out.

[Marc:] Mike Alexander... are you listening?

[Mike:] My PC got infected with a virus and II've just gotten it purged and protective ssoftware installed. Now I'm catching up.

My Millie teenager received her Gap Christmas catalogue today. "Ah," she says,"Celebrity models." 3T

A recent DRUDGE REPORT internet headline reads, "PORTLAND POLICE REBUFF ASHCROFT: REFUSE INTERVIEWS"

Yet the story referenced bears little resemblence to the sesational headline:
Attorney general clears way for state questioning of foreigners

Looks like a duck... quacks like a duck... must be a...

3T... or 4T? You decide.

Millennial teen pummeled for "anarchist" views. 3T or 4T? You decide:

(For info and discussion purposes only)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2001Nov27.html

Anarchist Teen Pulled From School

The Associated Press
Tuesday, November 27, 2001; 1:21 PM

CHARLESTON, W.Va. ?? A high school student who was suspended last month for her anti-war, pro-anarchy stances has been pulled out of school by her mother because of safety concerns.

Amy Sierra said her daughter, Katie, 15, has been attacked, threatened and insulted by students at Sissonville High School. The mother said it was her choice to withdraw Katie and enroll her in a program in which she will complete assignments on a computer from home.

"She was getting assaulted over and over again, and I got fed up," Amy Sierra said Monday. "I'm just so worried somebody's going to hurt her bad."

Katie, a ninth grader, was suspended for three days in October for defying school orders not to form an anarchy club or wear T-shirts that include slogans opposing the U.S. bombing of Afghanistan.

The school claimed the girl's actions disrupted student learning and a Kanawha County Circuit judge upheld the suspension.

The West Virginia Supreme Court on Tuesday voted 3-2 not to consider Katie Sierra's petition to prevent the lower court from "continuing to deny her freedom of speech."

The handwritten message on the T-shirt that got her in trouble read: "When I saw the dead and dying Afghani children on TV, I felt a newly recovered sense of national security. God Bless America."

Students spit on her mother's car at the high school. Her friends' parents wouldn't give her rides home from school. A boy wore a T-shirt signed by many Sissonville students that read: "Go back where you came from."

Katie Sierra, who was born in Panama, has attended 15 schools. She has lived in Texas, New Mexico, Ohio, Florida and Kentucky.

? 2001 The Associated Press