3T or 4T?

http://www.knoxstudio.com/shns/story...1-14-02&cat=AN

<font color="blue">
<big>'Air rage' is back</big>

By JESSICA WEHRMAN
Scripps Howard News Service
January 14, 2002

- In the months after the Sept. 11 terror attacks, airline travel was primarily populated with placid, patient customers who braved long lines, applauded flight attendants and, on a few flights, burst into "God Bless America."

Months later, most passengers are still patient, despite a few muttered complaints at security. But in a handful of cases, the bad behavior - also dubbed "air rage" is back - and it has led to arrests.

Most recently, an airline pilot was arrested after making what authorities called "inappropriate" comments at an airport security checkpoint. Elwood Menear, 46, a US Airways pilot, was released from jail Monday after being charged with making terrorist-like threats and disorderly conduct. Officials would not give specifics on the comments.

Before that, a man aboard a Southwest Airlines flight from Los Angeles to Las Vegas allegedly attacked a flight attendant with a shoe and opened the rear door of the aircraft as it was pulling away from the terminal. The passenger was believed to have been drinking and he was arrested

In December, a United Airlines flight from New York to Buenos Aires, Argentina, was diverted after a New York waiter relieved himself on a row of seats and said the people on the plane would die in a "fireball." He also was arrested.

"This was a pervasive problem that leveled off after Sept. 11 and now we're seeing it picking up again," said Andrew Thomas, author of "Air Rage: Crisis in the Skies." "We're going to have more people flying, more people becoming further removed from 9-11 in their minds."

Mike Sheffer of the Skyrage (CQ) Foundation in Charleston, S.C., said more people are aware of other passengers misbehaving since Sept. 11.

"I think what we're seeing is an increased focus on passenger behavior," he said. "People are more aware of what's going on around them, and as a result we're seeing more and more reports."

For every case of misbehavior, he said, there have been cases of cooperation. When a man rushed through security terminals at Hartsfield Atlanta International Airport, causing the airport's evacuation, "people were getting along," Sheffer said, sharing cell phones and acting patient despite the inconvenience.

Thomas said long lines and more stringent security measures may cause some frustration. In other airports, passengers arrive early for security reasons only to find themselves stuck in the terminal with little to do. Some become intoxicated in terminal bars, forcing flight attendants to deal with their behavior.

With even more air security taking effect this Friday, others say that those already tense about flying may become more tense.

"In the U.S., people are conditioned for instant gratification and they can get pretty much anything they want right when they want it," Sheffer said. "That's not going to be the case as far as airline travel is concerned."

The Federal Aviation Administration reports 318 cases of "unruly passengers" in 2000 and reported 223 as of Dec. 17, 2001.

Dawn Deeks, a spokeswoman for the Association of Flight Attendants, which represents 50,000 flight attendants for 26 airlines, discounts the FAA numbers. Because the FAA does not require airlines to report air rage incidents, many airlines don't.

"It doesn't make airlines look good if they report violent incidents on their aircrafts," she said. "The numbers are meaningless unless there's a reporting mechanism in place that says every incident needs to be reported."

Overall, Deeks said, organizations say unruly behavior isn't as prevalent as it was before Sept. 11. But with both flight attendants and passengers on higher alert, fewer passengers misbehave.

One measure of the new Aviation and Transportation Security Act passed last year by Congress would train flight attendants to deal not only with would-be terrorists, but with other disruptive passengers.

"When something happens on a flight, flight attendants and passengers don't know the intent of the disruptive behavior," she said. "They don't know if it's someone who has had too much to drink or with far more sinister plans."</font>

I represent many AMERICANS who the liberal establishment is trying to marginalize. We wont go down that easy ....

The 1960's produced some good, but most of the stuff that came out of that acid-induced haze isn't worth anything

Robert asked you some good questions Mr. Taka. I await your replies. Meanwhile, some thoughts. Remember, those on the left feel it is we who are marginalized. Who owns the media? Who is the establishment other than the corporate heads whom you conservatives depend on for your seats in Congress, where you have a majority, and the White House, whose occupant they own? Who then, is the establishment? I suggest it is the same people that were called this in the 1960s.

Also, you are marginalizing the left by equating us all with acid-laden hippies. That is not the case. There are many thoughful people who have written many thoughtful books on the left. They are whom is marginalized. They are not presented in our media.

If you aren't an empire, someone else will be. I would rather be on the winning side of that equation, rather than the loosing side..... No, there are many who say that what you liberals say is progress is really destruction. We wont let that happen. We aren't going away.

I guess what you are concerned about is that the Left would destroy America's empire status, among other things. Sure, it is time for all empires to bite the dust. Your assumption that there must be one, is a view belonging to another time. We liberals simply wish to bring our politics up to date with the realities. That is progress.

There can be no more empires. War and conquest are too destructive. This is one world, we are all inter-dependent, and everyone deserves their share of the power and wealth. To want one country, yours, to hog it all, is a mindset that conservatives need to look at. WHY do you want this? Isn't it too much of a tax burden? Doesn't it make our government bigger, and less concerned with the people?

Or perhaps you are concerned that, if we aren't Number One, we will lose everything. Actually, other developed nations do much better than we do in almost everything that counts. We are the most backward nation, thanks to your policies and your drag on progress. In order to advance our standard of living, and have it shared equitably so all can benefit, we need to become more like the Europeans, Canadians and Japanese. We need to shed our empire and its burdens. We need to ask other nations to help more with collective security. That itself would be conservative; we would be returning to a time over a hundred years ago when our nation made its greatest economic and political advances, but was not concerned with bullying other nations.

Unless the changes called for are destructive. Just because a bunch of drugged up longhairs call for change, doesn't mean its the right thing to do.

Doesn't mean it's the wrong thing either. I suggest you take another look at drugged up long-hairs. They have some revelations to share that would make your life and all of our lives much richer.

Do I think everything that was said or done in the 1960s makes sense now? No I don't. But to say everything advocated or discussed in the 1960s was that of the longhairs is the very attempt to marginalize which you object to for conservatives. Would you, Taka, care to be called a fascist? Or a racist? Of course not. Well then, talk in a more knowledgeable and fair way. You might actually get a hearing; if not from me, then perhaps from Robert or others.

The changes called for in the 1960s, which we were discussing, have to do with humanizing and preserving our environment, and with rebuilding our cities when damaged by 4T events to reflect these new concerns. Perhaps you would care to elaborate on how this is destructive. People do argue this, but we haven't heard your reasoning along these lines yet. A hint: these concerns have little to do with whether people take acid or how long their hair is.

Bravo, Eric......me thinks Mr.Taka is a reactionary baby soul.....to understand the 60's I think you had to at least be alive then....to pick up the vibe, so to speak.

Extra protection for a really dumb holiday:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/inl/index/0,1...477a12,FF.html

Warning: do NOT eat at McDonalds!

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...5E2702,00.html

Idaho court rules that motorists can drive while stoned on pot. 3T or 4T?

http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,43020,00.html

A satirical article about a man and the US flag.

http://www.theonion.com/onion3801/ar...ctly_sure.html

Bill Murray's repeating levee with Sonny and Cher accompaniment presaged the neverending War on Terror:

(For info and discussion)

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/nm/20...dhog_dc_1.html

Troops to Guard Groundhog Punxsutawney Phil

PUNXSUTAWNEY, Pa. (Reuters) - Troops will be deployed in a small Pennsylvania community in February to guard a groundhog named Punxsutawney Phil, which each year attracts huge crowds of people who believe the animal can forecast the weather.

``We just never know what may pop up in these times, so we are getting prepared,'' said Jamie Levier, a spokesman for the state police in Punxsutawney, a rural community about 90 miles (144 km) northwest of Pittsburgh made famous in a movie called ''Groundhog Day'' that starred Bill Murray.

A team of state police, bomb-sniffing dogs and National Guard troops will be stationed near Gobbler's Knob Feb. 2 to ward off problems at this year's Groundhog Day festivities.

Levier said all knapsacks will be hand checked by police and spectators will not be permitted to drive to the groundhog site. More than 100 school buses will be available to transport people. All passengers will be inspected as they enter the buses, Levier said.

Bill Cooper, president of the Punxsutawney Groundhog Club, said he expects more than 30,000 spectators at this year's forecast event. If the groundhog can see its own shadow on that day, winter will last another six weeks before spring, according to legend.

In the past 116 years, the rodent and its ancestors have seen a shadow 101 times.

``There was only one year we did not have the event and that was in 1942 because we did not want to give our World War II enemies any favorable weather forecasts,'' Cooper said.

Although some local residents had thought about canceling the event because of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, Cooper said that city leaders felt the event would show the world the nation's ``resiliency.''

``Everything has changed in America, but Groundhog Day is one way of showing the world we are getting back to normal,'' said Cooper. ``Still, I guess having a groundhog who eats strawberry yogurt may not sound very normal, but it does put a smile on a weary nervous town and nation these days,'' added Cooper.

I do love that movie.

I do love that movie too. Ever notice how you can watch it over and over and over again?

On 2002-01-16 16:00, cbailey wrote:
I do love that movie too. Ever notice how you can watch it over and over and over again?

Yup. :lol:

WHY WE FIGHT!!!.

3T/4T?

Virgil:

You get the barf bucket award for the week! I read a paragraph or two and quit. Huuuuuuuuurrrrrrrlllllll!!!! Way to go, man!

Has the Fourth Turning come? From what I gather from recent events, my answer is no. We are still in the Third Turning; further the events of Towerfall Day, instead of bringing on the Fourth Turning, may have postponed it by a few years.

Here is my evidence that we are still in a Third Turning:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/attack/...tack-myths.htm

This article says that marriages are down, divorces are up, crime is up in places, and religious attendance is flat. Other than being more vigilant, to the extent of preventing a plane crash which would have killed 197 people, not much has changed in our mood.

Some things have changed. We are now in a recession. Is this the Third Turning recession that Strauss and Howe speak about on Page 316 of TFT when they say, "America would be wise to risk a Third Turning recession, if need be, to help alleviate the risk... of a Fourth Turning depression." If so, the Great Devaluation will be delayed and may never happen. That would be one of the great determiners of the Fourth Turning, if it were to occur. The other is the Great Oil Rollover, when we run out of cheap oil. That is postponed by about three years, because of the reduced demand caused by Towerfall and the recession, and a major prediction, failing to occur; that of non-OPEC oil production peaking in 2001. OPEC worries about not being able to control oil because non-OPEC countries can increase production considerably.

I'd say that the Great Rollover will be postponed by a few years, maybe after 2010. This may give us time to develop alternatives. If this happens and boomers continue to work into old age, the Fourth Turning may turn out to be surprisingly mild. But this has a few ifs in it. Towerfall to me did NOT start the Fourth Turning. If the ifs don't pan out and a rough Fourth Turning is coming, it will come later with events considerably worse than Towerfall.

<FONT SIZE="+3">Umm......... EEEWWWWWW</FONT>


Nice post, Mr. Saari... i think.


p.s. "Towerfall" Interesting term, Mr. Blowers. Have you been hanging out with my four year-old twins by chance?

Perhaps, we should've kept the Taliban in power. :lol:

On 2002-01-16 21:44, madscientist wrote:
Perhaps, we should've kept the Taliban in power. :lol:

At the very least, we should consider getting out of the "nation-building" business.

Well, at least we now know why the Afghans seem to despise women so much. Perhaps we should have nuked Kabul after all......

I came up with the term Towerfall to match that other great event of our times - 1989 November 9, when the Berlin Wall came down; that I call Wallfall. So the latter middle part of the 3T, mostly the 1990's, can be described as "Between the Falls". I consider "9/11" and "September 11" to be unacceptable to describe the terrorist attacks because many people have their birthdays on September 11. If it had occurred on my birthday, I know I would not like it. Further, I note that we don't call the Japanese Attack "December 7".

On 2002-01-17 05:18, Jim Blowers wrote:
I came up with the term Towerfall to match that other great event of our times - 1989 November 9, when the Berlin Wall came down; that I call Wallfall. So the latter middle part of the 3T, mostly the 1990's, can be described as "Between the Falls". I consider "9/11" and "September 11" to be unacceptable to describe the terrorist attacks because many people have their birthdays on September 11. If it had occurred on my birthday, I know I would not like it. Further, I note that we don't call the Japanese Attack "December 7".

You like to work with words, don't you?
:grin:

I do see your point about having a birthday on September 11th. However, I think that no matter what, September 11th will be a bum day to have a birthday (or wedding anniversary) for some years to come. "Towerfall" also ignores the attack on the Pentagon.

Jenny Laster Genser, ATM-G, CL
Toastmasters District 27

_________________
Why does it have to take a disaster to acknowledge the beauty of being alive? -- Maharaji

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jenny Genser on 2002-01-17 11:19 ]</font>

Not sure when the Great Devaluation will have arrived. But it should arrive at some point.
The economics of America since the 1970's almost dictate it. America prosperity has been built on vast imports of capital and other nations' manufacturing goods. Our manufacturing has hollowed out since the late
1960's. Manufacturing jobs have declined for thirty years except for brief upturns in the mid-80's and late-90's. When we can't pay for all those imported goods anymore our economy and the global economy will take a huge hit. Or if the capital to pay for these imports are no longer available to be lent from other nations the result will be similar.

See http://www.larouchepub.com/other/200..._importer.html

Nice try, but the term "Towerfall" will get nowhere. The term "9/11" ("nine-eleven") is already too entrenched.

It is not uncommon for a date to obtain historical conotations. Think of "July 4". "December 7" still has strong Pearl Harbor connotations. Other countries have other examples.

As evidence that "Towerfall" will get nowhere, how's "Wallfall" doing? Thought so.

I agree with you that Towerfall ignores the Pentagon attack, but there are things wrong with just about every short alternative. 9/11 and September 11 create a problem for those who are born or have married on Sept 11. "New York City" likewise maligns a place. That is the major problem with referring to the 1941 attack as "Pearl Harbor". Hawaii brings to mind pleasure and life until you mention Pearl Harbor; then you think of death and destruction. Also, "New York City" ignores the attack on the Pentagon. Planattack may be a possibility, but of course the Japanese used planes (in a different manner). I chose Towerfall because it matches the worst of the attacks; also, one can regard the Pentagon as a tower - it is 5 stories high. Anything higher than 4 stories is a tower.

I note that Wallfall, in English, is a common term used in Germany to describe the fall of the Berlin Wall, and that's the country it happened to.

I did notice something interesting with the dates, though. Towerfall, or Planattack, occurred on 9/11. Wallfall occurred on 11/9, the exact reverse. And in Europe, one puts the day first and then the month, so that Wallfall occurred on 9/11 also. So the 1990's can also be described as between the 9/11's.

Would that be pronounced "nine-elevenses"? :smile:

If this Fourth Turning could produce something I would like it to be a cure for both gas and asthma. Both are afflictions that we Ashkenazis always have to put up with.

Ummm....who really cares what history will eventually call The Events Of September Eleventh? Will renaming it "Planattack" or "Towerfall Day" make 3,000 people any less dead? Referring to the attack as September 11th or 9/11 is no worse than anything else, and it's likely what people will stick with.

Let's move on.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kevin Parker '59 on 2002-01-18 11:26 ]</font>