In the Millennials forum, I stated that the responses to the Superbowl anti-drug ads really did reflect a change in generational perception. Now, the pundits are turning the blame back on soccer moms with their SUVs (buying gas supports terrorism), and the illegality of the drugs.

Back in 1999, the public reaction would've been different. Much more people would've supported the ads. Those who didn't support the ads would've been assumed to have been addicts with fried brains.

The reaction to the ads seems to imply a direction that the culture war is taking, less about passion, and more about pragmatism. This shows that we no longer care about trivial things. Now, we actually talk about things that matter.

http://www.narcoterror.org/kzoped0202.htm

_________________
Robert Reed III (1982)
---------------------------------------------
"Where they have burned books, they will end in burning human beings." -- Heinrich Heine
"Not to know is bad, but to refuse to know is worse." -- A Gambian Proverb

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: madscientist on 2002-02-11 08:51 ]</font>

Whatever. I didnt watch the Super Bowl.
I saw that whole Love America garbage in the begining, and they wheeled out Gerald Ford of Warren Commission fame, Jimmy Carter, Nancy (HURL) Reagan, George I, and Billy boy looking smug as ever.
My friend and I made a joke about Nancys boobs.
I guess well never grow up.
BTW, its still 3T

:lol: Gay sex is confused with terrorism. :lol: 4T, anyone?

http://www.nydailynews.com/2002-02-1...t/a-141259.asp

How's this for 4T?

When was the last time anyone has ever seen an Elvis impersonator? :grin:

On 2002-02-14 19:33, madscientist wrote:

How's this for 4T?

When was the last time anyone has ever seen an Elvis impersonator? :grin:

Well, somebody in the administration has. That is why we are fighting the Axle of Elvis.

On 2002-02-14 19:39, Stonewall Patton wrote:

Well, somebody in the administration has. That is why we are fighting the Axle of Elvis.

I remember reading somewhere that Iran has quite a few Elvis impersonators.

On 2002-02-01 13:37, msm wrote:
I would point out that the last 4T began with domestic stress and ended with war. There is no reason why a new 4T couldn't reverse this pattern.

Thus, if we have a few years of "war on terrorism" with a relatively quiet domestic front, that doesn't neccessarily mean it's not a 4T. The domestic front during WWII was quiet, also.

(See, this whole theory is so slippery as to not really be quite scientific anyway. I see it as more like a convenient way to classify eras.)

If I'm not mistaken, the Revolutionary War 4T did reverse the pattern of the Great Depression/World War II 4T, in that the war came first, the ironing out of domestic questions followed.

On 2002-02-10 22:35, Justin '77 wrote:

On 2002-02-10 22:33, Stonewall Patton wrote:
Jon and Justin:

What the hell is that? I feel like I am trying to read the writing on a rupee.

Turn on yer Cyrillic, boyo..

I thought it was Greek, lol.

On 2002-02-11 08:47, madscientist wrote:
In the Millennials forum, I stated that the responses to the Superbowl anti-drug ads really did reflect a change in generational perception. Now, the pundits are turning the blame back on soccer moms with their SUVs (buying gas supports terrorism), and the illegality of the drugs.

Back in 1999, the public reaction would've been different. Much more people would've supported the ads. Those who didn't support the ads would've been assumed to have been addicts with fried brains.

The reaction to the ads seems to imply a direction that the culture war is taking, less about passion, and more about pragmatism. This shows that we no longer care about trivial things. Now, we actually talk about things that matter.

Here, here, Robert.

The President's National Drug Control Strategy

Sheesh!

Why not just get this out into the open and give the $19.2 bil to Jeb in Florida, and legalize and regulate the drugs from there? Just think of the additional opportunities for the Sunshine State tourist trade.....

We are in a 4T because more and more people are talking about it--even here in rural Arizona. Of course I help them along a bit by mentioning S&H's book. But we won't quibble about the little things. As I have vacilated about it in my own mind, those aroung me have not. Local issues have taken on a different flavor these days. Discussions (and rants and raves) have more the ring of immediacy than they did a few months ago. I never thought it would happen here. Who knew? Our lives, which had become somwhat abstract along with the rest of America have gotten basic again. I won't lie to you. I kind of like it.

Dust on our road means something. Not only for those who live along it but for our environment. People are connecting to make sure that they know that they have a way out in case of emergency. The horses next door suddenly look like transportation. Our wells have become a community concern. Neighbors make a point of speaking to me when they see me now.

There is no escaping the fact that things have changed. I could have written this a couple of months sooner but I wasn't sure. Fourth Turning? I think so.

On 2002-02-09 08:36, buzzard44 wrote:
Sorry to interrupt but I have a question for everyone. It is obvious that some of us in this discussion think that we have entered 4T while others believe that we remain in a 3T. My question is, whichever way you think how does that belief affect your daily life? If you believe that the crisis is upon us, what actions do you take? What habits must change? We make decisions daily which bear on this question.

I agree with buzzard44 that we are in the very early stages of a 4T.

The questions are good ones. I read the book about the 4T during winter break 1999-2000. I was fascinated by the theory of historical cycles. At the time I read the book, I was county co-chair for a third party. The book confirmed inklings that things were about to change, though I had no clear idea about that.

Since reading the book but before September 11, I did a number of things. I bought a house, started serious personal planning for retirement other than the workplace 401K. I also ran for and was elected state co-chair of the political party. In that office, I tried to help guide the party toward what I believed was a confrontation with the future.
Being a first wave X-er, I thought in terms of electoral action rather than ideological purity.

(This is totally off-topic but it is interesting that much of the conflict I saw in that party was conflict between Boomer idealists who were left of center and X-er realists who seemed to be values conservative and politically progressive. It was quite a year).

Anyway, I was finished with my term as co-chair in March 2001. I was worried about the direction of the party at that time, but since September 11, I have become positively alarmed and I am considering changing my registration.

Since September 11, I have found myself becoming much more concerned with home and family. My fiance and I moved up our wedding date because of the disaster. My silent parents urged this on--they seemed to be interested in getting all their little X-er ducklings into safe, stable situations during the indian summer of the saecular year.

Finally, in response to the person who posted about the seasonal metaphor, this sure feels like the indian summer of the American Century to me. One could still play at it being the roaring 90's, but my heart is not in it anymore.

Elisheva

Figure skating enters a 4T:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/708276.asp

"Never in the history of the modern Olympics had there been a moment like this."

As someone who has been frustrated with Ottavio Cinquanta and the ISU for years, I am surprised (but pleased) at the speed at which this has been resolved. I think if this had taken place before 9/11, the ISU may have been able to sweep it under a rug.

Watch for the possibility of a Regeneracy during the ice dance competition. :smile: :lol:

Kiff '61

_________________
"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure....You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world." -- Nelson Mandela

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kiff '61 on 2002-02-15 15:34 ]</font>

What will happen during the Climax of Skategate?

On 2002-02-15 22:03, madscientist wrote:
What will happen during the Climax of Skategate?

It already happened back in 1994. It was "Jeff and Tonya's Wedding Night"--very 3T! :wink:

On 2002-02-15 22:11, The Pervert wrote:

On 2002-02-15 22:03, madscientist wrote:
What will happen during the Climax of Skategate?

It already happened back in 1994. It was "Jeff and Tonya's Wedding Night"--very 3T! :wink:

:lol:

But, seriously, folks....:lol: (enjoying that little interlude from The Pervert)

Jacque Rogge, the new president of the IOC, and a Boomer, is not going to let this kind of chicanery go on at the Olympics anymore. The judge fixing was just an example of the kind of stuff that went on under Juan Antonio Samaranch (a GI?), and probably a couple of his predecessors as well.

Now the IOC has a Prophet in charge! :smile:

Kiff '61

Try this: http://www.techreview.com/articles/shulman0302.asp

The start of maybe a "common ground" between open-source advocates, scientists, and proprietary software advocates.

On 2002-02-15 15:29, Kiff '61 wrote:
Figure skating enters a 4T:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/708276.asp

"Never in the history of the modern Olympics had there been a moment like this."

As someone who has been frustrated with Ottavio Cinquanta and the ISU for years, I am surprised (but pleased) at the speed at which this has been resolved. I think if this had taken place before 9/11, the ISU may have been able to sweep it under a rug.

Watch for the possibility of a Regeneracy during the ice dance competition. :smile: :lol:

Kiff '61

Are you a skater, Kiff?

On 2002-02-09 01:28, Eric A Meece wrote:
Rush's "thinking" is so far behind the times, that it has yet to catch up to the 3T of the previous saeculum, let alone a present-day 4T that might not have arrived yet. And I think it's complimenting him too much to call what he engages in "thinking."

Eric, it remains to be seen what the 4T will be about. It's perfectly possible that the future will be one where the Rushes of the world win out. It's also possible that the Leftists will finally achieve the victory they dream of (though I predict they wouldn't like it once they had it).

Nobody knows who the winners and losers of Sthe upcoming Cycle culmination will be.

On 2002-02-08 08:10, Kiff '61 wrote:

On 2002-02-07 22:48, HopefulCynic68 wrote:

On 2002-02-07 07:44, Kiff '61 wrote:
Is it just me, or is Limbaugh sounding just a tad frantic and desperate?

The times they are a changin', Rush. And you're way, way behind them.

Kiff '61

I'd wait a year or so, before I declare him, dead, Kiff. With every day that passes, this looks more and more like 3T to me. The Millennials are still mostly in grade and high school, and it may be a while yet befor they had much large-scale impact.

Oh, Rush Limbaugh's not dead yet, HC. I never said that. But his kind of thinking is definitely on the way out. Even if, as you claim, we're not in 4T, we can't afford to be wasting our time much longer debating over whether or not Teddy Kennedy is a socialist.

Mr. Limbaugh and his rants are rapidly on the way to being irrelevant.

Kiff '61

Unless, of course, his factions of the Culture War end up winning. The future is not predetermined, even in 4T.

Good generational researching about Rogge, Kiff! (Or, else, good guessing from the TV coverage) :lol: And, yea, what's your ice skating connection?

It occurred to me this week while watching certain Olympic events, that this is a predominately mid-to-late-wave Xer Olympiad (for the Americans, anyway), if S&H cutoffs are strictly followed. 1980 seems to be a good birthyear for many of the youngest ones. Sure, there are some younger, but it appears that many more are older, pushing 25 or 30, as is the case with Picabo Street, Todd Eldridge, etc.

Got me to wondering if this could be analyzed (ie, discussed to death, like we love to do :wink: ), as to whether the Olympics are any kind of proof toward S&H's gen age cutoff between Xr and Millie being wrong?

It's defendable that this Olympics is being run in a way that would be fitting of Millies, society-wise. I mean, no one's getting snipered like in Munich. Or, hit with a club. Or, kicked out for subtances, that I know of.

Anything there, ya think? I'm hoping not. I think it's a good thing to treat Xers, even if the last of the Xr youth, nicely for a change. :smile: But, many of them portray what we might assume are Millie traits... :???: However, they also all have that "Just Do It" drive.

I love all the kids this year. They have such spunk, professionalism and efficiency. My favorite Americans have been Timothy Goebel (he's my #1 fave), Picabo, Bode Miller, Lindsey Kildow, Joe Pack, Shannon Dunn, Kip Carpenter, and Apollo Ohno (bad luck about his first-race spill, hope his laceration doesn't take him out of his other races).

The foreign contenders are very good, competitive and interesting, too. I'm not even going to try and name any of them, though! :lol:

Two other observes: I'm noticing more crossing (Catholic sign of the cross) before and after competing. And, it kind of seems that the Cold War is re-appearing!

Oh, and Go Snowboarding! Now, that's an Xr-led victory for legitimacy, fer sure!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Barbara on 2002-02-17 01:23 ]</font>

On 2002-02-17 00:46, HopefulCynic68 wrote:
Unless, of course, his factions of the Culture War end up winning. The future is not predetermined, even in 4T.

Of course you are correct, HC.

I wish I had Marc Lamb's talent for pulling up posts from the underbelly of this board,

:lol:

but I remember a recent comment of his that very much intrigued me, along these lines, to wit and paraphrased: something like, the right winning the Culture Wars and the Left einning the political wars in this next 4T. My gut agreed. I had long ago posted my hunch to same Culture War effect and I also believe that historically the Left has won out politically.

Anyway, I'm too lazy to search through the stacks for Marc's comment. It's getting to where I cannot keep the various threads straight anymore.... :lol:

On 2002-02-17 01:23, Barbara wrote:


Two other observes: I'm noticing more crossing (Catholic sign of the cross) before and after competing. And, it kind of seems that the Cold War is re-appearing!

The Rooskie skaters also have made the sign of the cross in their own Orthodox manner and several wear crosses on their necks. I have not yet seen any icons brought out. HTH

[quote]
On 2002-02-15 15:08, elilevin wrote:

On 2002-02-09 08:36, buzzard44 wrote:

Since September 11, I have found myself becoming much more concerned with home and family. My fiance and I moved up our wedding date because of the disaster. My silent parents urged this on--they seemed to be interested in getting all their little X-er ducklings into safe, stable situations during the indian summer of the saecular year.

Goof for you Buzzard44 - at least some of us are having some luck in that area. My parents gave up on me. I'm 39, unattached, and probably doomed to live out life alone. I wonder what that will be like in the 4T. I'll find out and report back to all of you in say... 20 years or so.

On 2002-02-17 00:34, HopefulCynic68 wrote:

On 2002-02-15 15:29, Kiff '61 wrote:
Figure skating enters a 4T:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/708276.asp

"Never in the history of the modern Olympics had there been a moment like this."

As someone who has been frustrated with Ottavio Cinquanta and the ISU for years, I am surprised (but pleased) at the speed at which this has been resolved. I think if this had taken place before 9/11, the ISU may have been able to sweep it under a rug.

Watch for the possibility of a Regeneracy during the ice dance competition. :smile: :lol:

Kiff '61

Are you a skater, Kiff?

I wish. :smile: But, no. I'm a fan of the sport. My own sport was competitive swimming.

Kiff '61