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Thread: Evidence We're in a Third--or Fourth--Turning - Page 86







Post#2126 at 04-19-2002 12:32 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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This, on the other hand, is quite evident. And it's strong evidence that the Middle East, if it hasn't already entered the Fourth, at least has many hints of a strong 4th Turning mentality in the making.


Arabs are calling for boycotts of US goods and the calls are coming from grasroots groups rather than governments.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/740921.asp







Post#2127 at 04-19-2002 12:32 PM by eric cumis [at joined Feb 2002 #posts 441]
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(After reading it)

Weird, weird.

Until I see more details, and observe the analysis of other news organizations and agencies, I will have to remain skeptical.







Post#2128 at 04-19-2002 12:36 PM by eric cumis [at joined Feb 2002 #posts 441]
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There is a noted psychological tendency of people to find it hard to believe that such a terrible thing as an presidential assination or the OKC bombing could have been arranged by an individual or a small group. I suspect that tendency might be at work here.







Post#2129 at 04-19-2002 12:37 PM by eric cumis [at joined Feb 2002 #posts 441]
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On 2002-04-19 10:29, JayN wrote:
Firemind, please note that I am not endorsing this theory.
Noted.







Post#2130 at 04-19-2002 12:44 PM by SJ [at joined Nov 2001 #posts 326]
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On 2002-04-19 10:29, JayN wrote:
Firemind, please note that I am not endorsing this theory.

I'm only using it as an example of how what becomes unthinkable in an Unraveling is entertained with relatively little skepticism in the Fourth. People are more likely to connect events to each other than in the Third.
Compare this with the war hysteria surrounding the sinking of the Maine, triggering the Spanish-American War. McKinley really wanted nothing to do with a war, having experienced the Civil War first-hand. T. Roosevelt, however, was hoping that McKinley "would be man enough" to declare war.

We know now what happened: that the explosion of the Maine was an accident has been proven. That it was only an accident was suspected at the time, but because the explosion could be linked to Spain, it was linked to Spain, given the mood of the day.







Post#2131 at 04-19-2002 01:12 PM by jds1958xg [at joined Jan 2002 #posts 1,002]
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Compare this with the war hysteria surrounding the sinking of the Maine, triggering the Spanish-American War. McKinley really wanted nothing to do with a war, having experienced the Civil War first-hand. T. Roosevelt, however, was hoping that McKinley "would be man enough" to declare war.

We know now what happened: that the explosion of the Maine was an accident has been proven. That it was only an accident was suspected at the time, but because the explosion could be linked to Spain, it was linked to Spain, given the mood of the day.
Proves that wild accusations can fly as well in a 2T as in a 4T, if they coincide with the underlying mood and purpose.







Post#2132 at 04-19-2002 01:19 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Firemind is by implication trotting out the shibboleth of vouchers, to which I say OH PLLLLEEEEASE

Meanwhile Marc, your response was not instructive. You don't have a "clue" what I was driving at? It is obvious. Schools in poor districts simply do not get the funding that schools in rich ones do. You may be right that funding is not the whole answer to education, but it is certainly a major factor. Capitalist principles which you believe in dictate that the best teachers will go where the pay is best. And teaching is hard with poor supplies and facilities.

I am the one who doesn't "have a clue" about what you mean by "outcome-based education." I would hope that education is interested in its outcome. For the rest, you gave no evidence much less any cogent argument as to why multiculturalism or bussing from the 1970s has destroyed public schools.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#2133 at 04-19-2002 01:58 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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Mr. Meece writes,
"Meanwhile Marc, your response was not instructive. You don't have a "clue" what I was driving at? It is obvious. Schools in poor districts simply do not get the funding that schools in rich ones do."

Uh, Mr. Meece, Columbus schools get a whopping 33% more money than we, who are but a mere 45 minutes away, do. Yet our students are getting a much better education. I made that perfectly clear with the data I posted.

Hence, it is you who are "clueless," and willfully so: Like the left, the unions, the entrenched interests you love, you don't care a wit about the kids, but only for the money and/or your ideological political postion.

That much is very clear, Mr. Meece.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Marc Lamb on 2002-04-19 11:59 ]</font>







Post#2134 at 04-19-2002 01:58 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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On 2002-04-19 11:19, Eric A Meece wrote:
Firemind is by implication trotting out the shibboleth of vouchers, to which I say OH PLLLLEEEEASE

Meanwhile Marc, your response was not instructive. You don't have a "clue" what I was driving at? It is obvious. Schools in poor districts simply do not get the funding that schools in rich ones do. You may be right that funding is not the whole answer to education, but it is certainly a major factor. Capitalist principles which you believe in dictate that the best teachers will go where the pay is best. And teaching is hard with poor supplies and facilities.

I am the one who doesn't "have a clue" about what you mean by "outcome-based education." I would hope that education is interested in its outcome. For the rest, you gave no evidence much less any cogent argument as to why multiculturalism or bussing from the 1970s has destroyed public schools.
I'm not going to go into this argument to any great length. I suppose I agree with much of what you have to say, Eric.

I can agree that funding is a problem for P school in both rural and inner urban areas. I also agree that the decline of education is less related to multiculturalism or bussing than other factors. But to dismiss them wholesale as causes of education decline are equally wrong. I don't have numbers but Boston Public Schools were something like 80 percent white before bussing. Now they're something like 15 percent white. The declines did occur and are indisputable by most objective test scores. You can't just blame lack of money. In the 1920's many whites went to school and funding was much scarcer than when you had to push 40 or more kids in a room. Funding can't explain everything.

So decline may occur duye to bussing but it may be localized than conservatives think. OTO, liberals have a point when they say that salaries for teachers and school budgets have lagged inflation and this has resulted in a decline in quality of teaching. I don't really think vouchers are the all embracing answer conservatives make them out to be either. I wouldn't be opposed to some voucher experiments to motivate public schools to improve. Private schools, it is true, do outperform many public schools. But thier capacities are limited. And kids have to go somewhere.

Where do the reasons for decline lie and how can we remedy them? Actually, as much of a Democrat as I might be, I have to praise the White House. They have been trying to address the roots of decline which are related to lack of proper training for our teachers and lack of proper standards for students. They also relate to lack of proper expectations for students. The Bushies are avoiding the extremes of either national standards as advocated by liberals or complete local autonomy as advocated by conservatives. They are demanding results and tying extra money to education to those results. The determination of results will be tests administered every year by states and localities to students in (I think, correct me if I am wrong)4th, 8th, and 12th grades. Are there flaws to this approach? Yes, there may be too much emphasis on testing and rote learning over critical thinking. But something has to be used to shake the system. And moderation can be made later to correct for overcompensation in the area of standards.

As for the debate about phonics or whole reading ( I think that's the debate. Again, correct me if I wrong about this ). Does it really matter as long as the students learn to read? Maybe some combination of approaches rather than a purist approach may be helpful. Students are humans and not robots after all. What works with one will certianly not work with all. So let's experiment with both approaches and some combination of them.

The most important thing is to close the gap in achievement between minority (excluding Asian) and white students. This can be best achieved through testing tied to more money for training. And Texas, as much as its education system may lag the national average, has made considerable progress in reading scores for minority. I believe they rose from something like 49th in the nation to 41st. Nothing to brag over but not bad progress either.







Post#2135 at 04-19-2002 02:16 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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Abercrombie had to pull t-shirts percieved as racist by Asian-Americans.

Maybe we still are 3T. It's hard to say.

http://dailynews.netscape.com/dailyn...shortdate=0419







Post#2136 at 04-19-2002 04:27 PM by elilevin [at Red Hill, New Mexico joined Jan 2002 #posts 452]
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On 2002-04-19 09:22, Marc Lamb wrote:

Secondly, don't teachers get three months of paid leave each year (that's summertime, folks), in which to recharge those children-enduring batteries? Should we give them, say, six months on the dole to achieve this?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Marc Lamb on 2002-04-19 09:26 ]</font>
Uh--Marc, no they don't. Teachers are paid for the 180 school days they actually work.
Summer pay is pro-rated so that teachers can budget more effectively in a world in which mortgages and utitilties and car payments work on a month-to-month basis. Some districts and/or schools allow teachers to take the summer pay in a lump sum others do not. Summer break is not a paid vacation and neither are the winter and spring breaks.

Secondly, I am a scientist with a terminal degree (well--it nearly killed me) and I am now a high school teacher. Yes, there are some poor teachers out there, but on the whole I see people everyday who work incredibly hard to find ways to teach complicated subjects to students. They are creative and extremely hardworking people. Teaching is one of the most difficult jobs I have ever done. In the university I taught and did research. In the school system I teach and plan, do more paper work than I ever though possible, attend IEP meetings for students who learn differently, call parents, do supervision duty (these are minors and we are responsible for them), coach and encourage and cajole, keep track of absences, detentions, disciplinary referals, talk to worried parents, am patient with recalcitrant parents, attend faculty meetings, commitee meetings, department meetings, chaperone dances,coffee houses and sporting events...boy, I am tired just thinking about it. I am paid for 6 hours a day but my job is a 24/7 one. I actually work about 60-70 hours a week on curriculum and instruction areas--this does not include all the extracurricular stuff that we must do so the kids have a good high school experience. For all this I am paid a yearly salary low enough that I could actually take the Earned Income Credit each year.

Yes, there are some burned out teachers. No wonder when you consider the above list. Also, there is no wonder that there is a teacher shortage. And folks, it is going to get worse if current trends continue. There are a lot of us who don't mind working hard but we would like to actually be able to support our families on our salaries.

Every year at this time I seriously consider returning to the lab and the field. I'd get paid more and would have many fewer distractions.

Topicality: If this is a 4th turning perhaps we will see more respect for teachers and more of us willing to stay in the profession out of a sense of service to our country.

Have a good weekend!

Elisheva Levin







Post#2137 at 04-19-2002 04:54 PM by takascar2 [at North Side, Chi-Town, 1962 joined Jan 2002 #posts 563]
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Robert Blake - OJ II. Now I *KNOW* we are still in the 3rd Turning. Does anyone doubt it anymore?







Post#2138 at 04-19-2002 05:12 PM by takascar2 [at North Side, Chi-Town, 1962 joined Jan 2002 #posts 563]
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Do you think that people would interrupt a professional sports game to show Robert Blake? I don't think that this case will be anything like O.J.'s at all.

XoE
Yes. Remember - OJ was famous before 1994 but not really up there on the list. Blake is probably more famous because movie stars are bigger in Hollywood than sports stars.

Maybe the rest of the nation is leaning towards 4T, but California is not. What other (sub) culture could be entertained watching a police car drive from the valley to Parker Center? Thats not 4T, its 3T.







Post#2139 at 04-19-2002 06:29 PM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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Regarding the school situation, several thoughts occur to me, mostly in the form of questions to be asked.


1. How much space per student, and how many teachers per student, are available in urban as opposed to rural school districts?


2. How many special education students are there in each location?


3. How much crime, violence, drug abuse, and similar educationally disruptive events occur in each location?


4. To the extent that questionable methods of instruction and/or questionable curriculum are present in urban schools, how much of this is state-mandated or even federally mandated and therefore necessarily present in rural schools as well?


All such comparisons are apple/orange matters. I recall a really, really specious argument put out here in California by some right-wing think tank. (I think it was either the Hoover Institute or the Heritage Foundation, but can't remember which.) The argument compared housing prices in the Bay Area versus the Central Valley, observed that the former are much higher than the latter (and the homelessness problem accordingly far greater), and further noted that Central Valley towns and counties have more conservative government than do Bay Area towns and counties. Naturally, it explained the first fact by the second -- completely ignoring the relative population density of the two areas, which in my opinion is a satisfactory explanation of both facts.


If you can find an inner city Red Zone school district or a rural Blue Zone one, Marc, I believe you might manage some realistic comparisons. That's assuming the schools teach any differently in the two zones, of which I'm not convinced, frankly.







Post#2140 at 04-20-2002 02:30 AM by [at joined #posts ]
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04-20-2002, 02:30 AM #2140
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http://www.usatoday.com/life/2002/20...om-dresses.htm

How much more 3T can you get?

Btw, good questions, Brian Rush!







Post#2141 at 04-20-2002 08:17 AM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Lamb applied a finger wag:


David '47 claims,




"They [teachers] can't quit - yet, because they haven't achieved the time required for retirement. And they shouldn't continue, because they hate their jobs. Catch 22 in action."


First of all, according to the left, unions, and Brian Rush et al, only EVIL CORPORATIONS enslave human beings this way. Government, accordingly, sets them free. What seems to be the problem here?


In democracies, governments respond to "the people". Where I live "the people" are about as right of center as they can be ... without falling off their flat earth, that is.




Secondly, don't teachers get three months of paid leave each year (that's summertime, folks), in which to recharge those children-enduring batteries? Should we give them, say, six months on the dole to achieve this?


OK, so they opt for a different schedule - teach for 9 months (and get paid that way), then work elsewhere and/or study for 3 months. I'm sure you can point to the ones that lay around, but that's true for other fields too. There's nothing magic about teaching, except the "glass house" effect we insist upon applying with vengence.


Remember Heisenberg: under observation, things behave differently. :grin:

Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#2142 at 04-20-2002 10:46 AM by [at joined #posts ]
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David'47 writes,
"In democracies, governments respond to "the people". Where I live "the people" are about as right of center as they can be ... without falling off their flat earth, that is."


Let's restate that shall we...

In democracies, private corporations respond to "the customer". Where I live "the people" are about right all of the time... without question as far as the businessman is concerned, that is.


At anyrate, judging from your response about where you live (and how you think your neighbors think), it is quite clear that you are a bigot. :smile:












Post#2143 at 04-20-2002 11:09 AM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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Marc:


In democracies, private corporations respond to "the customer".

I know you were trying to paraphrase David, but you should have made that "in capitalist economies." Private corporations respond to their customers regardless of whether they operate under a democracy; see China.


The customers are not the only people impacted by corporate power, alas. And even customers require protection against fraud, monopoly, unsafe products, and other abuses. Employees, the community, and the environment require more, as they have little or no check on the corporation whatsoever, unlike customers.


Responding to your earlier quip, certainly government is capable of enslaving people. That's why we put safeguards on it: democratic accountability, separation of powers, the Bill of Rights.


Would you not agree that we require such safeguards on ANY institution capable of enslaving people?







Post#2144 at 04-20-2002 03:44 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Marc, I didn't see any figures or evidence in the post you referred to. You simply stated conservative slogans. It is obvious that poor districts get less money. To blame teachers and their unions doesn't get us very far. There may be some bad unions, but teachers deserve to have their interests protected just like any other profession. To use Columbus as an example is only to state one example, when there are thousands of districts across the land.

The point is, we know what makes for good education. Good funding, supplies and salaries, equalized funding between poor and rich districts, allow teachers a say in education, innovative methods that involve the student in interaction with the subject, instead of forced rote memorization of government/corporate-required behavior, not promoting students to higher grades unless they are qualified, adequate safety and security from disruptions.

Conservatives may not really be interested in education, because to have an aware and informed public means that they will think for themselves and not blindly obey authority, leading people to make proposals for change that threaten the current holders of wealth and power. So they conspire to destroy public education with vouchers so only the rich who can afford private schools will get an education. They want education limited to what is acceptable to the religious authorities, or to the requirements of corporate scientific industrialism. They confuse the issue by claiming that efforts to help poor and minority students are destroying education.

What destroys education is the lack of priority we place on it, and the authoritarianism that conservatives enforce on it.

Meanwhile, from CNN:

U.S. Assistant Secretary of State William Burns, accompanied by a United Nations team, visited the Palestinian refugee camp at Jenin, West Bank, on Saturday and called the results of Israel's military incursion there a "terrible human tragedy."

Burns was reportedly scheduled to hold separate talks with Palestinian and Israeli officials aimed at ending the fighting which has been going on for 19 months. It was not announced when those meetings would be held.

"I just think what we are seeing here is a terrible human tragedy," Burns said, adding that the fighting had caused "enormous human suffering for thousands of civilians" and calling for free access to the camp by aid agencies.
If this continues, we could be pushed into a 4T, because the Arabs will continue to attack us. Firemind, tristan and others who continue to ignore the facts are only helping to perpetuate and make this potential Crisis worse.

_________________
Keep the Spirit Alive,
Eric Meece

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Eric A Meece on 2002-04-20 13:46 ]</font>







Post#2145 at 04-21-2002 12:54 AM by cbailey [at B. 1950 joined Sep 2001 #posts 1,559]
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. "Now that the Fourth Turning has arrived, maybe we will finally show up on their radar screens."
About What Readers Say/ Strauss& Howe
Fourth Turning.com

:???:







Post#2146 at 04-21-2002 03:18 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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04-21-2002, 03:18 PM #2146
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To: All Concerned
Subject: Current US Educational System
From: Marc S. Lamb

Ladies and Gentlemen;

Back on page 213 of this thread, one David'47 made a bigoted, offhand remark concerning the "hyper-religous" of his Red Zone community. I, being one that rarely lets an opportunity to champion middle American values (oftentimes derided among the liberal left) here at T4T.com, took upon myself to respond. It was not my intent to begin a discussion on the Red/Blue zones or the educational system within these zones: We all know Red zones era vastly superior to the Blue ones.

Once this fact is acknowledge by all, and you all come beating down our doors seeking our vast Red Zone wisdom, only then will America have truly entered a fourth turn.

Until then, happy 3T all! :smile:









Post#2147 at 04-21-2002 04:32 PM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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Once this fact is acknowledge by all, and you all come beating down our doors seeking our vast Red Zone wisdom, only then will America have truly entered a fourth turn.

Well, in that case, we're safe. There will never be a Fourth Turning, the saeculum has ended, and we can enjoy a happy-go-lucky Unraveling forever.


I remain, however, somewhat skeptical. When you have met the criteria posted above, i.e. two inner city schools or two rural schools, one in each zone, we can talk. Until then, you have two many variables in your samples to establish causation by the one of your choice.







Post#2148 at 04-21-2002 06:05 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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Mr Rush writes,
"I remain, however, somewhat skeptical. When you have met the criteria posted above, i.e. two inner city schools or two rural schools, one in each zone, we can talk."

Well, Franklin County, where I grew up, is a Blue Zone in the heart of Ohio. And the home of the state capital, Columbus. Ross County, where I now live, is a Red Zone about fifty miles south of Columbus. Listed is the expediture per student and the state rank for each along with the current academic status.

One can come to their own conclusions, of course. :

<table class='Wf' border=0 align='center' width='100%' cellspacing=0 cellpadding=3 nowrap> <tr><td><pre>
County/District Budget Rank Status
Franklin County
Bexley City 7,746 35 Excellent
Columbus City 6,879 64 Acadc Emergency
Dublin City 6,954 60 Effective
Gahanna/Jeff City 6,136 147 Effective
Grand Heights City 8,027 25 Excellent
Hilliard City 5,873 209 Cont Improvement
Reynoldsburg City 5,378 397 Excellent
South-Western City 5,921 193 Cont Improvement
Upper Arlington City 9,012 12 Excellent
Westerville City 6,087 159 Effective
Whitehall City 6,290 124 Academic Watch
Worthington City 7,288 47 Excellent
Canal Winchester 5,390 392 Effective
Grove Madison 6,125 150 Cont Improvement
Hamilton Local 6,128 149 Academic Watch
Plain Local 7,427 45 Effective

Ross County
Chillicothe City 6,338 116 Cont Improvement
Adena Local 5,249 449 Cont Improvement
Huntington Local 5,068 518 Academic Watch
Paint Valley Local 5,584 313 Cont Imprvement
Scioto Valley Local 5,080 510 Academic Watch
Union-Scioto Local 5,569 317 Cont Improvement
Zane Trace Local 4,705 588 Cont Improvement
</pre></td></tr></table>


2002 Ohio School District Rating Definitions:
<FONT SIZE="-1">Excellent: Meets 26-27 indicators; not required to develop a continuous improvement plan; allows freedom from some state mandates in accordance with Rule 3301-101-01 of the Ohio Administrative Code

Effective: Meets 21-25 indicators; not required to develop a continuous improvement plan; allows freedom from some state mandates in accordance with Rule 3301-101-01 of the Ohio Administrative Code

Continuous Improvement: Meets 13-20 indicators; must develop a three-year continuous improvement plan (but not submit it for approval); must make satisfactory progress in accordance with Rule 3301-50-01 of the Administrative Code

Academic Watch: Meets 8-12 indicators; must develop a three-year continuous improvement plan and submit it for approval to the Ohio Department of Education; subject to intervention provisions of Rules 3301-50-01 and 3301-56-01 of the Administrative Code which require the district to make satisfactory progress

Academic Emergency: Meets 0-7 indicators; must develop a three-year continuous improvement plan and submit it for approval to the Ohio Department of Education; subject to intervention provisions of Rules 3301-50-01 and 3301-56-01 of the Administrative Code which require the district to make satisfactory progress; subject to a site evaluation that reviews conditions in the district/schools as well as the documentation and implementation of the continuous improvement plan, among other items</FONT>







Post#2149 at 04-21-2002 07:27 PM by Rain Man [at Bendigo, Australia joined Jun 2001 #posts 1,303]
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On 2002-04-21 14:32, Brian Rush wrote:


Well, in that case, we're safe. There will never be a Fourth Turning, the saeculum has ended, and we can enjoy a happy-go-lucky Unraveling forever.


I remain, however, somewhat skeptical. When you have met the criteria posted above, i.e. two inner city schools or two rural schools, one in each zone, we can talk. Until then, you have two many variables in your samples to establish causation by the one of your choice.
Wasn't the cold war about the struggle between Capitalism and Socialism, Capitalism won in the end.

Capitalist free market methods have showed in privatized industries such as power and water to improve services, because these companies are accountable for their actions now.

In Melbourne when the public transport system and power companies were government owned, there were major frequent strikes, services were disrupted often for days on end. However once they were privatized there has been hasn?t been a major a public transport or power strike in a long time.

The education system has problems because it is the last great socialist enterprise, it has no market-based allocation and the teachers aren't accountable to anyone.

Nobody is talking about ending public subsided education, however people are talking about serious reform to make our schools better. The solution is to give the schools more decision-making powers and introduce school vouchers so that parents can choose to send their children to whatever school they want.

A competitive school market will no doubt improve the school system as a whole. This school vouchers thing is part of a wider movenment towards market princples moving in more areas of life.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tristan Jones on 2002-04-21 18:42 ]</font>







Post#2150 at 04-21-2002 08:46 PM by [at joined #posts ]
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On 2002-04-21 16:05, Marc Lamb wrote:



Mr Rush writes,
"I remain, however, somewhat skeptical. When you have met the criteria posted above, i.e. two inner city schools or two rural schools, one in each zone, we can talk."

Well, Franklin County, where I grew up, is a Blue Zone in the heart of Ohio. And the home of the state capital, Columbus. Ross County, where I now live, is a Red Zone about fifty miles south of Columbus. Listed is the expediture per student and the state rank for each along with the current academic status.

One can come to their own conclusions, of course. :

<table class='Wf' border=0 align='center' width='100%' cellspacing=0 cellpadding=3 nowrap> <tr><td><pre>
County/District Budget Rank Status
Franklin County
Bexley City 7,746 35 Excellent
Columbus City 6,879 64 Acadc Emergency
Dublin City 6,954 60 Effective
Gahanna/Jeff City 6,136 147 Effective
Grand Heights City 8,027 25 Excellent
Hilliard City 5,873 209 Cont Improvement
Reynoldsburg City 5,378 397 Excellent
South-Western City 5,921 193 Cont Improvement
Upper Arlington City 9,012 12 Excellent
Westerville City 6,087 159 Effective
Whitehall City 6,290 124 Academic Watch
Worthington City 7,288 47 Excellent
Canal Winchester 5,390 392 Effective
Grove Madison 6,125 150 Cont Improvement
Hamilton Local 6,128 149 Academic Watch
Plain Local 7,427 45 Effective

Ross County
Chillicothe City 6,338 116 Cont Improvement
Adena Local 5,249 449 Cont Improvement
Huntington Local 5,068 518 Academic Watch
Paint Valley Local 5,584 313 Cont Imprvement
Scioto Valley Local 5,080 510 Academic Watch
Union-Scioto Local 5,569 317 Cont Improvement
Zane Trace Local 4,705 588 Cont Improvement
</pre></td></tr></table>


2002 Ohio School District Rating Definitions:
<FONT SIZE="-1">Excellent: Meets 26-27 indicators; not required to develop a continuous improvement plan; allows freedom from some state mandates in accordance with Rule 3301-101-01 of the Ohio Administrative Code

Effective: Meets 21-25 indicators; not required to develop a continuous improvement plan; allows freedom from some state mandates in accordance with Rule 3301-101-01 of the Ohio Administrative Code

Continuous Improvement: Meets 13-20 indicators; must develop a three-year continuous improvement plan (but not submit it for approval); must make satisfactory progress in accordance with Rule 3301-50-01 of the Administrative Code

Academic Watch: Meets 8-12 indicators; must develop a three-year continuous improvement plan and submit it for approval to the Ohio Department of Education; subject to intervention provisions of Rules 3301-50-01 and 3301-56-01 of the Administrative Code which require the district to make satisfactory progress

Academic Emergency: Meets 0-7 indicators; must develop a three-year continuous improvement plan and submit it for approval to the Ohio Department of Education; subject to intervention provisions of Rules 3301-50-01 and 3301-56-01 of the Administrative Code which require the district to make satisfactory progress; subject to a site evaluation that reviews conditions in the district/schools as well as the documentation and implementation of the continuous improvement plan, among other items</FONT>
I'm under the assumption that you intend Franklin County to be blue zone and Ross County to be red zone; therefore here's a nice statistical analysis of the data:

Blue Zone (Franklin)
# of districts: 16 (percentile ratings are w/respect to the county)
Number of districts in Academic Emergency: 1 (0 - 6 percentile)
Number of districts in Academic Watch: 2 (6 - 19 percentile)
Number of districts in Continuous Improvement: 3 (19 - 37 percentile)
Number of districts in Effective: 4 (38 - 62 percentile)
Number of districts in Excellent: 6 (63 - 99 percentile); note that this category includes BOTH the cheapest AND the most expensive Blue Zone School

Ross County (Red Zone)
Number of districts: 7
Number of districts in Academic Emergency: 0 (0 - 0 percentile)
Number of districts in Academic Watch: 2 (0 - 29 percentile)
Number of districts in Continuous Improvement: 5 (29 - 99 percentile)
Number of districts at or above the Effective level (more than half of the Blue Zone districts would fit into that category): ZERO!!

Ahh, you say, maybe that's just because the Blue Zone districts spend more money? To test that hypothesis let's look at those districts which spend between $5k and $6k (so money is a neutral factor) and look at those same two regions again:

Blue Zone (Franklin)
# of districts: 4 (percentile ratings are w/respect to the county)
Number of districts in Academic Emergency: 0 (0 - 0 percentile)
Number of districts in Academic Watch: 0 (0 - 0 percentile)
Number of districts in Continuous Improvement: 2 (0 - 50 percentile)
Number of districts in Effective: 1 (50 - 75 percentile)
Number of districts in Excellent: 1 (75 - 99 percentile)

Ross County (Red Zone)
Number of districts: 5
Number of districts in Academic Emergency: 0 (0 - 0 percentile)
Number of districts in Academic Watch: 2 (0 - 40 percentile)
Number of districts in Continuous Improvement: 3 (40 - 99 percentile)
Number of districts at or above the Effective level (half of the 'cheap' Blue Zone districts would STILL fit into that category): ZERO!!

CONCLUSIONS (personal):
1) Blue Zone districts generally perform better than Red Zone districts, even after being equated with respect to money.
2) There is a slight positive correlation between money and performance but it is MUCH more important that the money be spent properly (as in the Excellent schools whose expenditures run the entire Blue Zone gamut) than it merely be spent.

Anyone want to dispute my statistical analysis? It's been nearly five years since I took a statistics class but I think I can still do basic data analysis...
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